₦airaland Forum

Emperoh:
Can't wait for the 2nd half!!

But something should be done about the goal line thingy!!
I had thought that at least a 4th official shoulda been used for this tournament!

Its all good. . . . . .like i said, a reason for the English to hang on to should they lose this game by a slim margin!

My team has been robbed. . . . . .No doubt about it.
England team keep getting cheated n cheated. . . . .

jalether:
What's the diff between some posters on here and the english press. buncha cry babies. let the dissallowed goal rest already

it's not the 1st time that has happened in footie

U are talking bollocks. . . . .

I won't be surprised if English yobs are not googling the address of the match officials already.
A thousand death threats woulda been out there already.
Tell you what. . . . . . Should England lose this game, i will pay $100,000 to have his family drowned in a quicksand.

Line assistant's wife is a Nazi. . . . . .

England have been robbed!!!

Sagamite:
The Algeria that did not even qualify for ANC.
CIV was definitely stronger than Egypt and Zambia.

Kalusha Bwayla's Zambia of 94? I disagree. . . .

Don't be mistaken by Zambia getting to the finals. The CIV match in the SF was the real finals. Everyone expected a walkover vs Zambia in finals.

How was it the real finals?
We made it difficult for ourselves conceding cheap goals and having to come back to clean up our mess.
I don't know whatz so quality about the CIV team in 94?

I am trying to convince you that the teams you play in the 90s were poor, even most of the strongest ones, whilst Nigeria was one of the strongest.

How can they be poor when Cameroon played in the Q/finals of Italia 90. . . .they nearly spanked England sef if not for 2 penalties.
In the same 90 world cup, Egypt didn't lie down in their group.

But today, the teams you play, even the middle ones like Mali, Benin, SA, Togo, Gabon, Morocco, Angola are good. Plus you are no longer the strongest or even close to it.

They are not good. . . . . .Nigeria's standard dropped from the 70th floor to the last floor.
We don't even play exciting football anymore. . . . .In em days, score against Nigeria and feel their fury. . . .
These days, score against Nigeria and the fight is no longer there - that is the seed Amodu planted in the soul of the team.

When Togo and Angola went to WC, they held their own despite not being a top team in Africa. If such team had gone in the 90s, na 6-0, 8-1 we go dey hear.

Held their own and they were eliminated in the group?

We don't have the quality anymore and the opposition have upped theirs due to intense help from FIFA to develop their football and more access for players to move abroad. All these did not exist in the 90s when you were playing part-time fishermen and shoe cobblers.

The opposition didn't up their ante. . . . . .We simply dropped ours.
A football loving country of 150 million population cannot assemble a squad of 23 decent players and make them play.
Shame on NFF - Shame on Amodu!!!!

Sagamite:
1998 was when it was increase to 32 teams.
In 1994, our greatest threat was CIV. They played us at WCQs and ANC. See the team list:

Algeria nko?
The Algeria we couldn't beat on the last day and we had to resort to some desperate time-wasting tactics to cop a draw?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_African_Cup_of_Nations_%28squads%29#Ivory_Coast
That was one of the strongest teams in AFRICA.

One of the strongest teams but not the strongest.
Cameroon, Egypt, Ghana and Zambia had stronger teams on show.

See the team list today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_squads#.C2.A0C.C3.B4te_d.27Ivoire
This is similar for at least 10 African countries now. It is more difficult today.

This logic makes me laugh.
Sagamite is trying to convince me that it's more difficult for 5 countries to qualify from 50+ countries THAN 3 countries qualifying from 50+ countries.
Which kind logic be this? Nigeria as a country can never drop below the best 5 countries in Africa - with FIFA needing 5 countries to qualify, it's almost an automatic qualification for Nigeria these days. . . . . .Before now, with 3 African countries qualifying - it is very easy for Nigeria to miss qualification cos Egypt, Cameroon, CIV and one of Tunisia/Morocco are potential threats.

No more Nigeria 7 - Burkina Faso 1

If we have the quality of the Naija team then - we will beat Burkina Faso 10-0.
Yekini, Siasia, Amuneke, Finidi, Amokachi, etc.
Who born Burkina?

javalove:
WTF You are the most clueless Nairalander i know. . .

Coming from a simpleton, i ain't surprised.

Once your baseless arguments have been debunked, u result to abuses rather than posting sensible stuffs. .I dont blame you, its your parents who didnt do their job well iblame.

I blame your mother for overdosing on Aspirin when you were hiding in her womb. . . .
U got brain-damaged and because you were born in a local chapel, they couldn't diagnose your several ailments.

And u say me like a beggar? I can feed your family and generations not yet born. . .!!!!
Because we all hide behind pseudonyms, u feel u have the right to post crap, , ,

Your whole lineage cannot afford to feed me. . . .never mind a useless reprobate like Lukman Jaji.
Ma pet dog lives a more quality life than the richest member of your entire family tree.

Sagamite:
No.

FIFA is not stewpid. The increased number of places is a reflection of the increase in strength of African countries in football. It was increased from 3 to 5.

The Benin, Mali, CIV and Togo of today is much stronger than that of the 90s where CIV had only 2 FBs. Nowadays, all 11 on pitch and the ones on bench would be FBs that have years of training on tactics and game plan. Not the part-time hunters of the 90s.

So No! It is far harder to qualify now.

U got it all wrong. . . . .
They increased the slots because the number of participating teams expanded from 24 countries to THRITY-TWO.
The Benin, Togo, Mali have not shown significant improvement and FIFA thought a continent of 50+ countries should have about 5 slots in 32.

Katsumoto:
A few facts
1. It is an 8 hour practical exam
2. The pass mark is 80% and 79% is not upgraded to a pass
3. It is unusual to pass it before your third attempt. Most pass on their 4th attempt. The record is a guy who passed on his 12th attempt. Most have given up by that time.
4. Only about 20% of those who attempt the exam pass it; many give up after their 3rd/4th attempt. Even medical board exams do not have a pass rate that low.
5. Experience and exposure to Cisco equipment alone will not guarantee success
6. Those who can afford it, buy equipment worth at least £10,000.
7. A 5 day bootcamp cost at least $3000

It is arguably one of the most difficult, if not the most difficult, exams in the world; and it certainly isn't cheap.

This is exactly why i asked him how many Nigerian graduates opt for this venture?

javalove:
Its like u fools (Sauron and co), idiots (eldee and co), blind haters (tosin and co) never see anything good in him. . .

I have told you to always keep your mouth shut when intellectuals are discussing.
Your intelligence is too low to cope with the pace of brilliant discussions.
A brain-damaged social reprobate like you shouldn't be talking to me if not for the anonymity you enjoy on the internet.
In the real world, you are not different to the beggars i toss 1 pound coins to.

montelik:
@ Sauron everything you are writing is a bag of walking contradictions.  Westerhof got the finals of the ANC in 1990, but could only finished 3rd in 1992. By the standard you are now employing I am sure you would have sacked him for going backwards from 2nd to 3rd. It took Westerhof 3 consecutive ANC appearances to finally win One.

But the progress was there for all to see.
Gradually, Westerhof took local talents, sent em to Europe and they were being developed.
We all knew it was a matter of time before that Super Eagles side would win something. . . .It was so obvious the NFA back then didn't sack Westerhof cos they know his players were work-in-progress and they reaped the benefits in 1994.

So Nigeria is so good to walk through WC qualification abi. I guess that is why we walked through qualification for the 2002 WC. No wait we had to wait till the final day. We also walked through the 2006 qualifiers. No actually we didn't make it.
Do you seriously believe that the "young talents" you see Germany parading at the WC were developed solely by the German coach, or do you believe it was the collective effort of good football structure (functioning F.A, proper government support, effective national team management and a strong domestic league).

Good football structure ma ass?
What was the quality of the football structure in Nigeria when Westerhof was doing wonders with the Super Eagles?

Sagamite:
Cherry picking facts.

Call it whatever. . . . .Amodu is a useless coach.

SE was strongest in 1990s and yet see our qualifications.

WC 1990 - We did not qualify talkless of walk through.

WC 1994 - We qualified on last day.

WC 1998 - Only time we walked through.

WC 2002 - We qualified on last day due to super-hero Amodu that rescued us.

WC 2006 - We got walked out, not walked through. No qualification.

So Sauron, please explain your logic of how Nigeria should walk through qualifications. I wait.

You want to walk through CIV, Cameroun, Egypt, Tunisia, Ghana, Tunisia, Algeria, Togo, Mali and any other surprises with our mediocre players?

Hehehehehe. . . . . .Talking about clutching at straws.
Sagamite wants to compare qualification in the 90s when fewer teams represent Africa in the WC to the present age where 5 African teams must play in the world cup. How brilliant?

This is like comparing teams that qualified for Champions League in the years where only League Champions could play in the competition and NOW that 4 teams represent the Premiership in Europe.
This is not how to win a debate. . . . . .It was 50000% harder to qualify for the World Cup in the 90s than in 2002 and 2010.

Sagamite:
What Amodu has won at national level is immaterial. He has won a decent amount at club level. Even Siasia is yet to win anything.

How can it be immaterial when you still want him to manage a National Side despite failing TWICE?

Siasia played in the final of a FIFA-organised tournament.
Amodu is yet to play in the final with the national team. . . .Where is the comparison here?

He has taken teams under rubbish FA to 2 WCs and 2 SF at ANC.

Keshi took a Togolese side to the WC - Togo of all countries.
Abeg, Amodu cannot use WC qualification to impress me. By default, Nigeria should be qualifying for that.

If Keshi and Chukwu can get jobs, then Amodu can.

So let him go and try his hands elsewhere.
Somalia or Rwanda would be ma suggestion - where he can be shot if he fails.

Hiddink also failed with Russia, a very strong team.
Amodu has one of the best records for an African coach.

Failed with Russia?
List the FIFA rankings of the teams Russia played in the WCQ phase?

For Rijkaard, national.

So Rijkaard failed as a National team coach. . . . .Cleaned up his acts, won league titles with Barcelona and also won the Champions League.
Amodu won useless titles with BCC Gboko and then failed TWICE to take Nigeria to the final of a competition where they were always favourites to win. What is the correlation between the 2 managers? Please ask yourself!!!

In 2010, he took the joint-5th best team in Africa to 3rd place whilst majority of your Oyinbo messiahs fell with stronger teams at QFs.

Joint 5th best team in Africa?
When did Nigeria deteriorate to 5th?
As at 2000 when Bonfrere was the manager, Nigeria played in the final of the competition(the last time we did).
Amodu should be tried for treasonable felony!!!

Amodu met his targets and his players disappointed to progress further.

Show us the targets the NFF gave Amodu when he was appointed!!!
That will clear things up.

Lageerback failed.

I disagree. . . .

Absolute clunking, rubbish LIE!

Listen to commentator at 25 seconds, this is 10 mins to go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7k61WAlmsE&feature=related

Absolute clunking, rubbish LIE! STOP LYING!

Which commentator?
Nigeria were beaten bluish blackish. . . . . . I don't care what any daft commentator said.
The matchday thread of that particular match is on Nairaland. . . . .I can extract it so you can read the minute by minute comments.
Amodu is clueless!

Lies that what? They did not argue over money a night before?

What has that gotta do with the performance?
If money argument was the reason they lost in the Semis, why didn't they lose the 3rd place match?

Should a team playing a SF be arguing over money?

They argued over money in 94 and they won the Nations Cup.
Amodu is a failure.

Bonfrere that you said won Olympics. Does that not make him a great manager? 

Very great. He won the Olympics(The first African side to do it).
He almost won the Nations Cup in 2000 but for a dodgy referee in the penalty shoot-out disallowing Ikpeba's goal.

FIFA ranking is shyt.

Yes, FIFA ranking is shit.
It says Brazil is better than Nigeria but we all know Nigeria is miles better than Brazil.

If you disagree, then you just clearly unequivocally and unambigiously stated that Amodu was terrific because he took us from FIFA ranking of 40 or so to Top 20 by the end of ANC.

This is ridiculous.
What was Nigeria's ranking in 2002 before Amodu became the team manager? 40th?

Do you still want to use FIFA rankings or you are going to deluge me with excuses and rationalisations?

FIFA ranking shows the present strength of the national teams in the world.
Under Bonfrere, i know Nigeria were pretty strong until the daft local champion took the Eagles from their grace to the gutter.

Amodu took the players to achieve and win OVERWHELMING majority of his matchs, Lagerback took them to failure winning NOEN due to the oceans of errors he made and the fact he did not know the players.

What did the players achieve under Amodu?
Playing useless teams like Kenya, Mozambique and Comoros Island?

Sagamite:
My question is "WHAT HAS HE WON WITH A NATIONAL TEAM?" because you wanted to prove that Amodu is not a good coach by highlighting he is yet to win something with national team and disregarding his achievements at club level.

What Hiddink has won with a National Team is immaterial!!!
He's taken the most inexperienced team in a world cup to the Semifinal.
I think that is enough achievement and this is why he gets jobs in Europe.
Amodu's credentials cannot take him to the job of the manager of Lesotho. . . .That's the difference.

If that is criteria for a sub-par coach, then you must be saying Hiddink is sub-par.

How can Hiddink be sub-par?
He's one of the most brilliant managers in Europe - his records speak for itself.
Hiddink does not have to win a world cup to prove his credentials. His achievement in 2002 stunned the whole world.

He was Dutch coach, was he not?
What did he win? I thought good coaches win something with national teams and the club ones are irrelevent? Abi, Onyagaza?

Which job came first?
National team job or Barcelona job?

Upset is when a student that scores 90% in Physics, goes for a Maths test and he has food poisoning and scores 70%.

Food posioning in 2002, food posioning in 2010.
Amodu must be cursed.

If there are better teams, then it is not a big deal to come third. Hiddink could not win WC too because there are better teams.

That he qualified Korea for the round of 16 was in itself a big achievement.
Everything he achieved after that was a surplus to requirements.

The Ghana Amodu dominated for 80mins, that his team wasted numerous chances against, is the same team that is the only African team left in WC and dominating others (not dominated like Amodu)

Amodu did not dominate any Ghana side.
His team were played off the park by a youthful side.
They completely outthunk, outfoxed and outwitted Amodu. The best your manager could offer was chewing his cud.

I repeat his team spent all night arguing in 2002 over money before a match with an EXCELLENT team.

LIES LIES LIES. . . . .
Arguing about money made him lose to a 10-man Senegalese side?
I laugh in Arabic - what won't a moronic manager use as an excuse?

In 2010, the players aint that good.
Amodu took them from failure to victory in 2002 when the coach you highly praise was useless and almost cost us WC ticket.

Which coach did i praise highly? Lagerback or who?

He took a midocre team to WC qualification again in 2010 and took them to their ANC potential.

Kindly list the FIFA rankings of the teams Amodu played in the WC qualification in comparison to Nigeria.
That will help this debate a lot.

Lagerback brought them down and got paid.

Lagerback worked with the rot Amodu left and he had to prepare them for 3 weeks.
The Swedish manager is not a magician. What Amodu spoilt for several months cannot be cleaned up in 3 weeks but nevertheless, we all saw how he made the SE play superbly creating tons of chances against decent sides in the WC.

montelik:
Show me where it was in his contract. An employee fulfills the employment terms in his contract, not the expectations "in the heads" of his employers. Show where there was any agreement or even mutual understanding that he was supposed to win the nations cup.

Show me where it was in his contract that finishing THIRD was his target, u numbskull!!!

Maybe, maybe Argentina would have given us 8 goals with Amodu in charge. But you don't know how he would have done at the WC. So there is absolutely no FACT to what you allege. Any coach who is good enough to qualify a team under his tutelage for the WC, deserves the chance to go to there and show what he is capable of and be judged on his actual performance, not a bunch of silly conjectures made by people who have their opinions of what may or may not have happened and then they use those baseless conjectures as FACTS to then pronounce judgment.

Amodu woulda gone to the world cup if he had shown a decent performance in the Nations Cup.
A manager that lost to Egypt 1-3 and lost to Ghana 0-1 was seen to be a monumental failure for the National Team.
The FA were spot on to sack Amodu!!! They had to apply a damage limitation.

Care to provide any evidence for that claim. Are you Sani Lulu in disguise   Show me where the NFF told Amodu that only the trophy would do. Maybe you are the NFF member you speak of  . Amodu failed in 2002? That is news to me. After all I remember him successfully qualifying us for the WC in Japan/Korea. That was his mandate. His mandate in ANC 02 was not to bring the trophy home, so once again that is another failure only by your own definition.

Successfully qualifying Nigeria is now an achievement?
How many countries represent Africa these days? FIVE.
By default, a Nigerian side with no manager would qualify for the world cup every time. . . .Nigeria are that good in Africa.

Westerhof destroyed the credibility of the super eagles by losing 5-1 to Algeria scandalously in the ANC.

You don't have a memory.
The same Westerhof played in the final of that competition(something Amodu has never achieved in his miserable life).
Westerhof got to the final of the Nations Cup less than a year after he was employed.
Compare that with FAGmodu!!!

Lagerback destroyed the credibility of the super eagles by allowing an aging Greek team to use Nigeria to enter the WC history books with their first goals and win. The coach of Ghana also destroyed the credibility of the Black stars by letting Ivory Coast beat the 3-1 in the group phase of the ANC. (yet somehow Ghana got to the final while IV lost at QFs). Do you now see how easy it is to cherry pick a few results and use them draw wide, far-reaching and ridiculous conclusions or patterns.

Lagerback lost to Greece playing 10 men and wasting 2 subs on injuries(he cannot control such circumstances).
Ghana played in the final - something Amodu is yet to achieve.
No one is cherry picking Amodu's achievements - A manager that has failed to play in the final of a Nations Cup with a team like Nigeria is dud.

As for our poor pattern of play, that is a subjective opinion but I would say we were much worse under Chukwu and Vogts, but everyone opinions will differ. You say Amodu didn't not develop players. Was that his mandate? In 2001 when he took over the Eagles when Bonfere abandoned us, was his mandate to develop players. When he was hired in 2008 was his mandate to develop players or qualify the team for the ANC & WC after our failure of 06. It seems you have a different set of goals for Amodu than what was the reality. If your boss judges your performance the way you judge Amodu then you most be the perfect employee to still have a job.  

Amodu is a local coach. . . . . His primary role is to identify local talents, nurture them and bed them gradually into the National Team.
Capello visits all the grounds in the England to watch English players - i doubt Amodu does that.
He just sits around and wait for the foreign players to come do the business for him while he resorts to his hobby of cud-chewing.

Finally I agree with you, there is no proof Amodu would have done better. But the reasons for there not being any proof is because people refused to allow it. Now you want to say you definitely know what would have happened even though you have nothing but conjecture as evidence.

If you did logic in school then you would know a manager that failed in an inferior competiton would fail more in a superior competiton.
U failed JSS Exams, how are you going to pass ACCA exams?
Do you have to be a rocket scientist to know that? If teams like Ghana and Egypt can beat Amodu - Argentina will maul him.

No player developed under Amodu? Is Amodu Siasia coaching under-aged. So national team coaches are supposed to develop players that are not with them excepts for a hand full of days in a year. With an F.A that refuses to arrange friendlies and do the proper thing tell me how he is supposed to develop players. How long was this man in charge that he was supposed to develop players while people were breathing down his neck for results (don't dare draw or lose or we sack you, you must win while playing like Barca and Arsenal combined or else).

Amodu discovered no local player - that is what that statement means.
National coaches unearth local gems and nurture them till they are good enough to play in the National team.

Look at the many prodigious talents in the World Cup.
Look at Germany flaunting their youths - who discovered those players? Lucifer or their National Team manager?

Sagamite:
So what has Rijkaard won with national team? What has Hiddink won with national team?  Since you want to restrict Amodu to national team.

Hididnk took Korea to the Semis of a World Cup.
It's a bigger achievement than Scolari winning it for Brazil. . . . .

Is Rijkaard vying for the post of Holland's National Team?

Another criteria you would soon create excuses for.
So some are allowed upsets whilst others are not? 

With Amodu, it's not an upset.
That is the best position he can take Nigeria.

Upset is when a student who cops 90% suddenly score 25%.
A student that keeps scoring 45% every time cannot qualify as an upset - Amodu is consistent with his failure.
If we allow him to take Nigeria to the next Nations Cup, he will finish THIRD again.

Amodu has never failed the national team. Not in 1995, Not in 2002 (when he was a saviour and then the FA came to ruin things), Not in 2010 (where the players are not great, but you only accept that fact when you see your oyinbo fail).

His players are not great in 2002 and 2010?
How many months preparation did Amodu cop before the Nations Cup?
A useless coach is a useless coach. I don't need to bag M.Sc in Rocket Science to know Amodu is tactically sterile.

Set your comprehensive criteria for a bad coach and Amodu will pass.
And by the way, the only reasonable criteria is results. Amodu has it in abundance, and the LGBK you worship does not.

The criteria is there for all to see. It ain't far-fetched.
Amodu took Super Eagles from the height of excellence to what African teams now laugh about.
He took SE from grace to grass.

Sagamite:
The same Amodu has won a lot of laurels too.

For club or country?
I wouldn't argue with you if this was about BCC Lions of Gboko or 3SC of Ibadan.
Amodu is the king of local clubs - but when it comes to the National Team, let him stand back.

How come Scolari is drawing with a country Togo would beat? And yet you want to condemn Amodu for losing to a country that thrashed world champions AFTER his team was disrupted and did not have a good sleep?

Jose Mourinho lost 0-3 to Middlesboro when he was at Chelsea.
The price of Shevchenko was more than the whole Boro team.

If we put it down to upsets - there's no good manager in the world cos everyone of them has suffered a bucket load of upsets.
However, these managers earn their stripes with what they have won in the past so the little upsets are easily forgotten.

Has anyone condemned Guardiola for losing to Inter Milan? They wouldn't - he won 6 trophies last season with the same club.
So when clubs like Rubin Kazan go to Nou Camp and beat Barcelona, it is quickly forgotten.

But when a manager keeps failing the National team in every opportunity he gets then his credibility will be questioned.
Amodu is NOT a National Team coach. He shouldn't punch above his weight. He's tactically inept to win any championship with Nigeria.