₦airaland Forum

plainbibletruth:
In context Romans chapter 11 is talking about Israel and the Church.

It is not about INDIVIDUAL believers.

Sure it is; writer was drawing analogy from Israel but note the personal pronoun when it came to application

Romans 11:1a - "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!"

Romans 11:11 - "Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious."

Romans 11:26 - "and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

Romans 11:28-29 - "As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable."

Romans 11:33 -"Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!"

Israel as a nation failed to fulfil God's plan for her and she was replaced by the Church. If the Church fails she too can be replaced as God's agent to the fallen world.

Let us not miss the fact that the inspired writer of Romans had a Gentile audience and he made several applications to his hearers eg:


17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The 'Thou' there refers not to Israelites but Gentiles =you and me!



25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in

plainbibletruth:
See what Jesus Christ declared:

“I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins--the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.
JOHN 5:24 AMP

Note: "has eternal life"; "does not come into judgement and condemnation"; "has passed from death into life"

Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.”
JOHN 6:29 AMP
Note: "work" required by God is "that you believe in the One whom he has sent"

All that My Father gives Me will come to Me; and the one who comes to Me I will most certainly not cast out [I will never, never reject anyone who follows Me].
JOHN 6:37 AMP Note: The one who comes to Christ is NEVER cast out.

Kindly be balanced. Yes HE will not cast us out but:

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned
[/b]John 15:6 Note: the one that will be cast forth was once IN HIM.

And I give them eternal life, and they will never, ever [by any means] perish; and no one will ever snatch them out of My hand.
JOHN 10:28 AMP
[b]Note: No one will EVER snatch the believer out of Christ's hand. They will be perpetually "in him".

My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
JOHN 10:29 AMP
Note: No one means "no one" - all inclusive. Not the believer himself or anyone else.

Indeed, however, we were not born in that condition. There was a time we entered therein by FAITH:

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21
[size=13pt]for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[/size] 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Romans 11:20-22
So, the Father is the HusbandMan. If we abide in faith, we are established; if we don't HE will cut us off!

Methuselah lived that long because God has always being longsuffering, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

KingEbukasBlog:
Another epistle for me ? Aww . But honestly , I cant deal with your naive misconceptions and misinterpretations . The unbelief in a creator HAS NEVER made anyone rational or intelligent . Go cogitate deeply and come back with something worth paying attention to .

Methinks they are more emotional than intellectual in their position.

Hier:
Messages on prayer are always fresh

You are very correct.

malvisguy212:
welcome bro. happy to see you again.

Thanks a lot bro.

Deicide:
Oh in a country of about 80million christians i must be living in a cave!!

Pls stop trying to sound smart by asking sily questions i made my point if you dont agree with it then ok

ok

Deicide:
The problem is that most Christians are Hypocrites!! infact if you read the Bible on what a christian should be based on the NT(Jesus lifestyle abi? ) you would find out that there are actually no Christians on this earth at all.

and how many of them have you met in person?

benzics:
Have you ever argued with a christian?

Do you know that whenever christians argue(or try to sound smart), they do that from a deistic point of view instead of a theistic stand.

You never see them trying to prove how Jesus was the son of god, rather they'll keep talking about how the universe would have never existed on its own, and how god was the one who created the universe.

Their logic goes thus:

"The universe was created by an eternal being, so therefore, Jesus is the son of God."

Christians, what are you really arguing for?

Are you an atheist?

ambassagod:
Well, I remember those days we argued extensively on this topic.

You always bring up this, and I always deal with them. But you would never agree, rather you would take the escape route. That's not false. Probably not under this moniker.

okay

plainbibletruth, kindly correct this notion: when God gives HE doesnt take back:

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Revelations 2:5


Besides, kindly lay these to heart:

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned
John 15:2,6

Aye brother, none can pluck us from His Hands;but HE can cut us off if we dont abide.

Romans 11:21,22
for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Tithe or not to tithe?

Why should the media draw us into needless nitpicking, straining at gnats while we swallow camels? There are weightier matters!

BluntBoy:
God defines the totality of Yahweh. Jesus is God the Son, but not the totality of Yahweh. There is God the father and God the Holy Spirit. These three are the totality of Yahweh. Yahweh is God of the universe who has manifested as a son (the sacrificial lamb) and a Comforter (the Holy Spirit) By calling Mary the Mother of God, you are rubbishing the fact that Yahweh has no beginning or end. Mary was a vessel. She herself needed to be saved.

"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May your word to me be fulfilled." Then the angel left her. (Luke 1:38)

And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. (Luke 1:47)

Thanks.

johnydon22:
Still doesn't mean she didn't give birth to Jesus who is God and thus a Mother of God.

Unless you don't know what a person who gives birth to someone is called.

well, after being told what God's plan was let's hear Mary :

Luke

38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.

I believe that settles it. She couldn't have said, "I am God's mother because she knew it was impossible to claim to give existence to the One Who gave her life and existence!

urahara:
Mary + Jesus = mother of Jesus

Jesus - god

If jesus = god

Therefore mary + god = mother of god.

End of discussion

But God created Mary. Hence she was just a vessel used, among many, by God

johnydon22:
Is Mary mother of Jesus or not?

sure she was the mother of Jesus. But we must bear in mind that at the point of conception, she bore He Who, "
6 Though he was God,...
7... gave up his divine privileges
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
Phil. 2:6,7

johnydon22:
There are many parts of the scriptures that also suggest jesus isn't God. Anyway that is by the way.

let us assume now that Jesus is God, Mary gave birth to jesus when he wanted to visit earth.

Jesus = God
Mary = His Mother

How so does the OP think it's wrong to ascribe the title theotokos (Mother of God) to Mary?

In my humble opinion, Mary cannot be the mother of God. I believe it is one of the many ways by which people exalt the creature more than the Creator.

God made Mary; God planned redemption and it included His incarnation; Mary , His creature, was to be His chosen means (just like the donkey was the means chosen for the Triumphal entry). Hence what matters is the purpose of it all, not the means He chose!

Then was there any Scripturally verifiable reason prior to the Incarnation that qualified Mary for this? No! What then? It was just God's choice. But she was a virgin! Yes, and there was many of them then. Just like there were many widows in Israel but Elijah was sent to the one at Zarepath.

Don't miss this opportunity

Note the change.

Dalam0n:
Human beings are found at the UN. After all it is the same UN that Collins Powell went and dilivered a totally bogus and made up charges against Iraq during the lead up to the war. His presentation was so convicting that it changed sone minds but it ended up to be all lies.

Anybody can quote lies anywhere. Quoting the bible in the UN doesn't mean that the Ober 7 billion people alive today are decendants of Noah and his family from some mythical global floof that allegedly happened about 4500 years ago.

ok.

And kindly give a special attention to:

butterflyl1on:
Here is a report that is more accurate and cancels out yours


http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/howrelisr.htm

Dalam0n:
I've actually been to Israel about 8 years ago and my trip there is also part of the reason I am an atheist today but that is a discussion for another day . The people there are not religious. Go there interact with them and you'll see it for yourself.

Their PM is a politician and he'll do and say anything to appeal to the emotions of people he knows will take his speech seriously especially when a large part of the world revere the bible and take it to be true.

The Israeli PM quoting some obscured prophecy from the bible is NO different from the Indian PM quoting some obscured prophecy from the Verdes.

That's your opinion. Besides, was that factual? Do you know those found at UN assembly? I didnt say National assembly.

Dalam0n:
How many of the people are still expecting the messiah?

Hope you know that Israel is one of the least religious countries in the world.

This is from one of the leading news papers in Israel.


"Israel Among the Least Religious Countries in the World
Only 30% of Israelis say they are religious, survey finds"

https://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.651616?v=150EF83CD4A46B2F18DD7E0CB6522268

Majority of the people living in Israel today do not believe in all the biblical hogwash.

We are speaking here from a historical point of view. Even the Bible did not hide the fact that majority of them rejected Jesus Christ when He came.(by the way, that is faithful representation at its finest!). Meanwhile, a sample is not always a perfect representative of the universal set. A good example would be America prior to the last elections. Besides, why then would PM Benjamin, quote Amos' prophecy in a UN assembly?

Dalam0n:
The world renowned archeologist and academic power house called Prof Israel Finkelstein who is Jewish having conducted so many research and finds concluded that the Exodus is non historical, but some obscured Nigerian that doesn't even know how Egypt looks like what's us to believe because it was written in some ancient book.

academic powerhouse and yet his people are still expecting the Messiah? Academic powerhouse yet the same people still respect the Torah (authored by Moses of which Exodus is the second? You see, one man may speak for himself but that's just how far they can go.

http://www.6000years.org/red_sea_crossing.html

Meanwhile, furthermore to the facts being a historical record of a nation, another reference is the places mentioned therein. Take for example:

https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuweiba

I am yet to find a country banning or restraining the Bible simply because they thought it was not true/laughable. Perhaps other reasons but not that.

Dalam0n:
So all the over 7 billion people living on earth came down from Noah and his family about 4500 years ago after the flood that wiped off the whole earth abi?

Emm, pls let this begin on another thread, thank you. Meanwhile, no matter how huge and imposing the oak tree becomes, like it or not, it began as a seed. (was tempted to refer to science but that will derail the thread.)

Dalam0n:
Shut up Mr spinner. The world will end in 20 years is NOT the same as the world will end in the future.

Answer Yes or no, "20 years from now, I will be in Canada." Is this a futuristic statement?

Dalam0n:


Really? How can fairy tale not be a Nations history?

The History of Bayajidda the person we were told founded the Hausa language in Daura is purely mythical. What about Oduduwa the founder of the Yoruba nation?

So because something is passed from generation to generation means it's not a fairy tale? Na wah ooo.

Even Jews are Rabbis are saying that many of the stories in the bible and non historical yet an obscured Nigerian that doesn't even know what come is in Hebrew is trying to yap nonsense. Na wah ooo.

That is why there are genealogical trees here and there in the Bible. Kindly reference any genealogical trees in history for the people you just mentioned and I will gladly read 'em up. I believe God allowed those long list of names showing there was nothing mythical about the characters therein.

butterflyl1on:
Very heavy implication there. How can a fairytale be a nations history? Can a nation not know it's own origins even when it is passed down from generation to generation?

Just like we have the history uthman Dan fodio who founded the Sokoto Caliphate and others like him who make up the historical content of Nigeria.

Indeed, the other time the PM of Israel was heard quoting a prophecy of Amos at the UN assembly and an unknown NL here calls that fairytale!

Now the dust has settled, op, it seems a good number of countries that either restrain the Bible's usage and circulation,do so because of religious reasons: some are Islamic countries , others are communist and part of their ideology does not recognise God, etc but I dont think there is any that restrains the Bible simply because they dont believe the historical record therein.

That a nation holds the records therein as her history already shows that it is not fairy tale.

Dalam0n:
Its simply and example. Am using Islam as a perfect example that completely counters your logic.

I know many pastors that have stated that Islam is the religuon of the devil and it will be destroyed . The pastors are no more while Islam is on the rise to be the biggest religion on earth.


You guys always sound funny. Just recently christians here were showing some projections that claim that atheism will drop in numbers in the near future and mastubating all over it.

The same PEW research center that conducted the research and made the projection has stated that Islam will become the largest religious group in the near future and I notice that when ever that is mentioned christians will start saying that it's an unsure projection.

All futuristic projections are uncertain that is why we have intended strategies and emergent strategies.

realmindz:
Oh, that was mentioned in the bible as well...or the parrots weren't created as at then?

By the way, parrots only imitate human speech but not a talking snake that speaks from its own intelligence to decieve a homo sapien. Your comparison is invalid

your opinion is noted.