₦airaland Forum

CatfishBilly:
Jaw reflex for apnea? Grimace at pressure at the nail bed for apnea? Do you even know what apnea means?
I'm done bro. It keeps getting ridiculous.

The ridiculous one sir is all you and you did not need my help to show it. What is your medical specialty? Since you already claim to know what Apnoea means why disregard it as part of brain stem reflex check and push an online journal to me and the journal itself showed you how ignorant you are.

CatfishBilly:
Classic strawman argument. The point of our argument was types of brain stem reflexes to certify death, i never mentioned apnoea of which you constantly harped on OCR, from the link I posted, we could pick at least 5 while you constantly harped on 1, that was our argument. Every other thing is a distraction.
Call your doctor naa, scared I'll come to to the UK and you'll be answerable to me?

Dr quack fish can you show me where i harped on 1? There are no 5 processes as all 5 processes listed fall under 3 categories:

1) OCR

2) APNOEA

3) COMA

the supposed 5 checks are just extensions in detail but if you were a true medical practitioner my mere mentioning of those 3 categories would have revealed to you that you are talking to a medical expert but no you had to expose your quackery to all by running to your online medical journal when i have not made reference to any online aid throughout our discussion and spoke from personal knowledge as a bonafide medical practitioner. You could not offer an answer of your own but had to direct me to an online medical journal which you had to search out. The time it took you to search it out you would have simply answered me from the top of your "medical" head Dr quack fish sir.

Stop parading yourself as a medical doctor because you are not. You are a death monger. If anyone has foolishly handed their hospital or clinic to you then he just gave a death monger license to carry out medical quackery on the less knowledgeable.

Here in UK your quack type would be put away for years for impersonation, medical mismanagement and negligence.

CatfishBilly:
Here is a link, educate yourself, scroll down to assessment of brain stem reflexes. It's a journal and you're allergic to reading it, but who cares, man.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2772257/

haha yep he is back to his journals as expected. No direct response from him but depending on google. lol you are a quack sir.

Kindly read the abstract from your own journal and see where it talks about accuracy in diagnosis and remember where i talked about Apnoea, coma, etc and their lack of accuracy. Also read where it mentioned process of brain death certification and how you messed up medically when you jumped to CNS when i corrected you by bringing you back to TBI and SCI as linked with external insults to the patient before determining CNS. Even your journal is against you. Let me paste the first five processes from your own journal

1. Identification of history or physical examination findings that provide a clear etiology of brain dysfunction.

2. Exclusion of any condition that might confound the subsequent examination of cortical or brain stem function.

3. Performance of a complete neurological examination including the standard apnea test and 10 minute apnea test.

4. Assessment of brainstem reflexes.

5. Clinical observations compatible with the diagnosis of brain death.

Number one talks about external insults.

Number three talks on the same apnoea i already repeatedly told you

Number 4 talks about OCR which i already told you falls under brain stem reflexes and part of the checks along with apnoea and coma of which number 5 talks about.

You are a quack sir.

Giving links to online medical journals does not make you a medical practitioner. I could smell your quackery even from over here especially with your lack of knowledge of basic medical practices and inability to use the right medical language when conversing with me. You only expand on my medical abbreviations which clearly shows your failed attempt at being legit.

You asked that i scroll down to assessment of brain stem reflexes and this is what it says below and i helped translate it for you by giving each an apt guide

Assessment of brainstem reflexes

(THIS IS OCR)
Pupils- no response to bright light Size: midposition (4 mm) to dilated (9 mm) (absent light reflex - cranial nerve II and III)
Ocular movement- cranial nerve VIII, III and VI

(THIS IS ALSO UNDER OCR)
No oculocephalic reflex (testing only when no fracture or instability of the cervical spine or skull base is apparent)
No deviation of the eyes to irrigation in each ear with 50 ml of cold water (tympanic membranes intact; allow 1 minute after injection and at least 5 minutes between testing on each side)
Facial sensation and facial motor response
No corneal reflex (cranial nerve V and VII)

(THIS IS UNDER APNOEA)
No jaw reflex (cranial nerve IX)
No grimacing to deep pressure on nail bed, supraorbital ridge, or temporo-mandibular joint (afferent V and efferent VII)
Pharyngeal and tracheal reflexes (cranial nerve IX and X)
No response after stimulation of the posterior pharynx
No cough response to tracheobronchial suctioning

I will ask again sir what is your medical specialty?

You have responded to everything else except this singular question sir. How come?

CatfishBilly:
You are still talking about OCR when I've told you that it's not the only brain stem reflex testable, seems like that's the only one you know. Open a textbook​ for godsake, are paramedics allergic to reading? You don't want to read journals, you don't want to read textbooks too?

Since you asked, I've practiced Medicine in 2 continents, Europe (where I attended medical school also) and Africa. That's the most you're getting from me.
Non Medical doctor forming traumatologist. Go and start up your own practice too while you're at it.
Bloody quack.

What a bloody quack and a shipload of bull from you Dr fish. So Apnoea, coma and absence of brain stem activity are not checks under which OCR falls into absence of brain stem activity? Lol

You know zilch about medicine. From journals you now move to text books yeah? So all your knowledge about medicine are from books with no actual practice?

So you attended medical schools in Europe and Africa right? So now answer me this much asked question Mr intercontinental Doctor, what is your medical specialty sir? You claim you practiced in 2 continents so what was your specialty?

Kindly educate me on the other medical tests associated with Brain stem reflexes beyond the 3 I already gave you and for sake of accuracy, what are the stages involved in each test? Any real doctor would know the answer to that in a heartbeat.

Prove me wrong.

ilynem:
He is not going to. Him and the rest of them will run into their little hole until they have something new to feed on and then they will come out in their numbers. That's how it works here. I have to give you credit though. Standing up to all of them, it was lovely to see. Thank you very much for standing up to what you believe in. Plus you are proof that Science doesn't automatically make one an atheist like they all believe here. That is why they wi always try to discredit you.

Parasites by nature. They need the host to survive but often killing the host in the process and jumping on to the next host.

Medicine made me a believer. I was not really one before being coloured but my partner on The job who is white is a full believer and he helped to make me one coupled with all I have seen in my line of work.

ilynem:
He has Still not given us his medical specialty.

Assuming he has any. It's a thing of honour to declare your medical specialty but Dr fish has refused to disclose his even after I began sounding like a broken record asking the same question.

He knows he is a bloody quack so dare not mention it. I am an emergency medical specialist with emphasis on traumatology so I am addressed as a traumatologist and I am not afraid to say it. He should declare his.

CatfishBilly:
So, oculocephalic reflex is the only brain stem reflexes you know when certifying a patient?
Wow. Little knowledge is a bad thing. Call your doctor, you're not keeping up.

Apnoea, absence of brain stem activity and coma are the 3 checks attached and I hope you know Apnoea is temporary so not accurate. Coma can also be temporary so not accurate. OCR is riddled with false positives under certain conditions so not 100% so tell me where your brain stem reflexes stands?

I asked a question about being on a ventilator and ICU if it's death or being comatose even when there is no brain stem reflex observed. Answer it please sir.

Also what is your medical specialty?

akintom:
In addition to your internal Dunning Kruger, you obviously don't understand the use of tenses.

Within the intellectual sphere, it's not only rude, but reprehensible, to speak in the manner of the quoted excerpt, of your earlier post.

All I did sir was follow your lead. You have a strong handle on being rude so I spoke to you like you spoke to me and you say I am being rude? You sir are being a hypocrite.

CatfishBilly:
A little bit of knowledge is a bad thing, it really is.
You don't talk about the CNS at death? How else do you check for brain stem reflexes when certifying a patient without talking about the CNS? Oh wait, you're a paramedic, that's not your area of expertise.
Bloody quack.

You sir are the bloody quack. You talk about OCR and assume it's accurate even when every kid doctor knows it has false positives under certain conditions.

Permit me to ask sir when a patient is without brain stem reflexes but ventilator dependant and under intensive care is the person dead or deeply comatose?

What is your medical specialty and what part of the world do you practice?

akintom:
The operative word "ANY", is the pointer to my suspicion of charlatanry and confirmed pseudoscience birthed ancillary.

I stand by my very words Mr rude Akintom. If it's not verified then it's a simple medical literature. Medical science is meant for practitioners and not theory hawking wannabes.

Perhaps Dr fish can tell you his medical specialty since he has refused telling me even after repeatedly being asked.

CatfishBilly:
Like I said, I have no business with paramedics, call your doctor, then we'll talk. Since you don't know that the brain and spinal cord are part of the CNS, Dropping tbi and sci for me.
Chai, paramedics Sha, it's not your fault.

Self professed doc. You do not talk about the CNS at death without first talking about the external insult which affects the TBI and the SCI that was why I asked for your prognosis on the person who died and you claimed to revive. Try and save the little of your alleged medical divinity you have left sir.

What is your medical specialty?

CatfishBilly:
Like I said, I have no business with paramedics, call your doctor, then we'll talk.

Lol doctor fish but you have been responding until I began probing. What is your medical specialty?

CatfishBilly:
You really do have to call your doctor now, I said CNS because the claim was the person died, woke up after 12 hours and WALKED out of the morgue.

What was your initial diagnosis and proof of death including your personal claim of reviving the dead? You are killing your supposed medical career

Stop focusing on CNS like you did medical journals. What was your prognosis?

Sarassin:
Fair enough. But surely you can express a general opinion based on your experiences as a practitioner and in light of the more esoteric events you may have witnessed as a first respondent.

I have seen my fair share of what we term the miraculous on the field. We have applied unconventional and non medically approved procedures on the field with instant positive result but we dare not mention it as medically such is seen as life threatening and with a chance of maybe 5% and if the person had died still then our efforts at trying to save a life would be misconstrued.

Where those thoughts and ideas on radical procedures come from is strange but ordinarily we would never think up such procedures. Yes I have seen medical miracles but cannot use them to carry out a generalization.

So like I said I need a before, during and then an after to approve or disprove but for now I would stick with perhaps.

CatfishBilly:
And you obviously missed the part of my argument where I said the person didn't die because nobody would be dead for 12 hours without cns damage.
Send your doctor, you're not keeping​ up

Talk about TBI and SCI external insult first before heading to CNS. You are misfiring your medical procedure doctor fish

CatfishBilly:
And you obviously missed the part of my argument where I said the person didn't die.

What is autoresuscitation for? Is it for the living or the dead? You need to stop lying doctor fish. Everyone in that discussion focused on the dead including you so why do you now pull this rabbit of not being dead from your hat?

What is your medical specialty doctor fish?

CatfishBilly:
Now let's get something clear, since you're harping on this hypoxia anoxia thing. I said hypoxia because my argument was that the guy wasn't dead. You probably missed that part and said anoxia, I went with it and apologized for my "mix up" just to keep the conversation flowing, I didn't want to derail by going into another hypoxia anoxia argument. Now that I've cleared the air, you can now send your doctor so that we can have a conversation.
Side note, attached is an Oxford Medical dictionary definition of anoxia in every day parlance.
You can now go back to the background where you belong, don't forget to send your doctor.

You claim to be a doctor yet you depend on a dictionary to explain anoxia and hypoxia?

On that discussion we spoke about autoresuscitation of the dead. Dead means no oxygen supply and no brain activity due to long starvation of oxygenated blood which results in brain cells dying off.

Total lack of oxygen is anoxia and you got it wrong in that discussion. Nobody dies and remains breathing so why use hypoxia to explain that? There is a thin line between right and wrong diagnoses and that thing line can mean life or death. If that discussion was a medical exam then you would never become a doctor. The dead stop breathing or did your medical journal tell you otherwise Doctor fish?

Sarassin:
You're a medical practitioner, why don't you nail your colours to the mast. Do you believe the man in the video was healed of lunacy?

I haven't focused on the healing angle but on the injuries. Regarding the healing it may or may not have happened. I cannot categorically say since I have no before and during assessment before moving on to an after.

Sarassin:
Speaking for myself, although I am not a Christian I am no atheist. I will say miraculous events can and do take place but I can assure you that wherever the words; miracle, pastor, prophet and Nigerian appear in any sequence there is fakery involved, they go together like rice and beans.

Yes, the wounds are real, that is the hook the charlatan uses to distract from the fact that no healing of any significance took place. He would not be the first or the last Nigerian prophet to send a sick patient home and when the miserable sod has died or possibly in this case killed somebody the pastor will simply shrug and say the lunatic lacked “faith”.

That video is as phony as the outlandish ill-fitting clothes the family seemed to have rushed out to buy after receiving the proceeds of their enterprise. Look at the subsequent stills the OP posted, they all look as guilty as sin.

Perhaps but at the same time perhaps not. Apart from your affirmation of the injuries the rest you said is an assumption.

CatfishBilly:
Lol. If you say so. Important lesson learnt today, when discussing medicine and you find out that the other party is not on the same educational qualification as you, just stop, cos everything you'll say will sound foreign to them.
I learnt it the hard way though.

You meant to say medical journal knowledge and not educational knowledge in verified medicine as a practitioner. You say you are better qualified yet wrongly diagnosed anoxia as hypoxia and I corrected you.

Dr Fish why are you finding it hard to tell me your medical specialty?

CatfishBilly:
I tried giving you the professional courtesy, I really did.
But since it's obvious which path you wanna tow, I have no business with paramedics, it's obvious that doctors' education and paramedics' training are different that explains why everything ive been saying sounds foreign to your ears. If you have anything to say to me, you can send your attending doctor at least that one will know how to correlate hospital experience and journals and not just discard them.
I'm done replying you.

Now who has got the ego problem? What is your medical specialty? Or are you a Jack of all? You are obviously ignorant and very well so if all you have ever shown as proof of your medical knowledge has been repeatedly mentioning medical journals. Besides theory what practical knowledge have you got?

What is your medical specialty doctor fish?

CatfishBilly:
That awesome moment when a paramedic tells a doctor that he lacks Medical knowledge. . The fuckkking nerve, man. Akintom, you said it, shouldn't have indulged her.
Wow. It's okay though, I won't descend to your level and start measuring dickks, the fact you discard a medical journal says a lot. I'm up there and you are below me, you bring patients for me to treat.
So, let's just leave it there.

ouch Mr fish did I rub you the wrong way? I apologize though. However I would rather trust anyone with close to a decade of professional medical field experience and who is attached to 17 emergency hospitals on my route than anyone whose focus is on medical journals alone even after I showed you how medical journals lie and bend the truth always. Without verification, nothing written in any medical journal is credible. How many contents of the medical journals you keep talking about have you personally tried, checked and found true for yourself?

The Autoresuscitation you mentioned elsewhere is one of such. What mechanism have you applied that worked and proved autoresuscitation to be a medically achievable reality?

You mentioned spontaneous remission for cancer patients as being caused by their immune system finally kicking in. Please what medical school did you graduate from?

If I may ask especially since you claim to be a medical doctor despite your medical ignorance can you tell me your medical specialty?

Joagbaje:
THEY KNOW THAT IF THE WOUNDS ARE PROVEN REAL . That authenticate there was a mental case and a healing so the decided to rubbish the evidence of the wound .

To the best of my knowledge sir I have given a medical explanation to those lacerations and skin chaffing but I am open to anyone else's professional medical opinion.

I repeat sir that those wounds are genuine and yes the man's soft tissue was ruptured in several places.

CatfishBilly:
It's not about wiggle space, You've further gone on to buttress my point point that autoresuscitations are under reported, hundreds you say. Something that happens that often can't really be called a mystery now, would it? You believe no single medical practitioner can explain it, let me ask you this simple question, have you researched the phenomenon? Read what other doctors and authors have to say about it?
I've read about cases of spontaneous remission of cancers, I've read about immunity to HIV in Ugandans (a medical impossibility) but through research, I was able to get some answers to my questions. When was the last time you tried researching a case you believed was a mystery and tried finding answers or are you just comfortable with labelling it a mystery?
I sense you're comfortable with labelling things that you don't understand a mystery, if you and the doctors around you don't have a clue, broaden your search, the internet has made the world a small place, you can read articles by doctors all over the world.
According to where I received my medical training and the doctors I've been privileged enough to work with, miracle/mystery is not an explanation. You have to go and research and read and get one.

As for what you and Mattie saw, I've got a plausible explanation for that, but that's not the purpose of this thread, we are dealing with medicine strictly.


And as for the schizophrenic fella in the video, let me keep my thoughts, the religious ones will come for my head too.

I have to agree with you here. You really need to keep your opinion to yourself especially with the level of lack of medical knowledge I have observed in you. Please for sake of medical sanity and posterity your sealed lips would be of immense help.

ilynem:
Followed your discussion with the catfish guy yesterday and now this. Truth is atheists on Nairaland have this weird belief that they are intellectually superior than those who believe in God. They call us myopic and backward. Anybody who they feel intimidated by intellectually (like you), they tend to discredit and that's when you see the anger they feel towards a God (who they dont believe exists) come out. And this is also when the name calling starts. My dear, sometimes they should be left to wallow in their ignorance, it actually helps them sleep better at night. And whatever you do, don't ever reply that Otem dude. He's a whole new level of weird. You are currently my bestestestest person on nairaland everrrrrr

Awww sweet cakes I am blushing here. I am a newbie here yet you say this. Much obliged.

To be honest I only just noticed the main focus of all the bedlam. So I have been talking with skeptics who say they are atheist. Now that changes things a great deal. Explanations, suggestions, discussions become futile especially when they never listen to opposing views. So I have been speaking with medically ignorant people who use atheism to negate anything with a hint of God in it.

No wonder catfishbilly came across as truly medically ignorant and kept referring to journals and not facts in medical reality. He even mistook anoxia as hypoxia and I had to correct him. That is medicine at its minimum and he got it wrong. Such people are the ones who give wrong diagnoses to cases and run with it as if they are right, subjecting the patient to torture rather than. Relief.

akintom:
You know what complex is?

*you shoving your claimed qualification around here
*you trumpeting egoistic "more authentic experience based opinion"
*you misconstruing my quoting you, as finding your gist weighty.

Your superficiality, is betrayed by your hypersensitivity for awe, rather than curiosity.

In a nutshell, you have a complex.

If my personal opinion based on experience makes you feel i am massaging my ego then for sure you have a complex.

Your quoting me in the first instance shows you found my comment weighty otherwise you would have looked the other way but you couldnt and you know why? Complex.

Your negativity and rude disposition can be likened to a tantrum throwing baby but in your case its a tantrum throwing adult with a complex.

CatfishBilly:
I watched the first video. The only one that comes close to a miracle is the one of the baby. Pulling people out of burning cars isn't a miracle, it's people being proactive. They should have just prayed and watch them burn to death.
Waking up from coma is nothing new all in medical journals.
Coding for 45 minutes, we already covered that, same with the black old man.
Stop calling them mysteries and miracles, pick up books, someone must have captured it happening more than once and offered an explanation.
If everyone called every little a miracle/mystery I'm sure we won't have come up with our "evidence based medicine" modalities.
Let me give you an example, people who reared cows were found to be immune to smallpox. If the rest of the world was just small minded and chalked it up to mystery/miracle, smallpox would still be killing millions of people till today. But, no, it led them to the development of a vaccine.

As suspected i knew you would look for wriggle space. I asked you to watch it so you would know that your so called medical journals containing 38 cases cannot hold a light to the hundreds of unrecorded autoresuscitations that occur worldwide and go unrecorded. No single medical practitioner in any part of the world large or small who can explain it. It is an impossible medical occurrence. We are not talking about diseases sir we are talking about the dead coming back spontaneously without any medical assistance at the time of revival.

Regarding the others you term as people being proactive, know that God uses people to carry out his purpose. Man has the ability to act but in such situations as emergencies which seems like all hope is lost, they act under Gods unseen and sometimes unrealized guidance. They only realize it after everything has ended and they begin to playback the entire scenario. I have seen this ever so often.

Was the voice the officers heard from the car pulled from the river imagined? The woman was long dead but all the officers heard the same voice shouting out the same thing from inside the sunken, damaged car. Did they all imagine the same thing? in the other video was the man in Priestly apparel who appeared on the scene of the car crash out of nowhere to assist and anoint and pray for the trapped young lady also imagined? Especially since they all heard him and interacted with him and saw him and heard him say their tools could now work and moments later a more equipped fire truck arrived but immediately after she was rescued he was nowhere to be found and all 15 churches in that area had no record of anyone like that. Neither did this man appear on over 70 pictures taken during the entire rescue of which he was part of yet the police men, the fire rescue crew all said he was there.

Mysteries exist and they often come to us in form of miracles. Unable to be explained yet real.

My team has been called to a crash site with a mother and her 2 kids being the occupants of the vehicle. The mother and one of the daughters were unconscious and still in the car. We got them out and strapped down ready to be transported when a man came out from the woods in front of us pointed into a line of trees and said we should save his daughter. We thought it was another incident and Mattie went downhill into the line of trees and there was this 13yr old girl with a broken leg and fractured collar bone but conscious. she said her mom and sister were in an accident and she was thrown from the vehicle downhill and we did not know this. We thought the vehicle only had the woman and 1 daughter and since both were unconscious we couldnt get any further info from them.

Mattie called for me and as i was going downhill another team of paramedics arrived and they assisted in bringing her up but when we got back up to the road the man who yelled save my daughter was gone. We later learned that the father of the girls died 4 months prior to this incident and with the picture we were shown we identified him as the same man who told us to save his daughter. We had to tell the doctors what happened when we dropped them off and they told the woman when she came to thats how we got the follow up information.

michaelwestern:
How come the so called mental slaves are more successful than the free ones.

Or do you think miracles only happen in Africa? Do you know how many miracles happen in the United States alone every year?

I do not know how to respond to your comment or if it was even meant to be directed at me. I have never mentioned Africa or the west in any of my comments so how you chose to make a sudden comparison leaves me befuddled. I am in England by the way. I hope that helps in your comparison.

adepeter26:
Lol.... Miracles You say? I bet all this said miracles of yours are because you can't comprehend what's caused them....

Sir, the ability to comprehend and assess medical issues is part of my EMT training. When i am unable to comprehend something which was supposed to have a medical explanation yet doesn't then simply put, it defies medical explanation so comprehension is out of the question.

Medical Mysteries line up whole shelves in hospitals and people study and restudy them in an attempt to make sense of it all but still cannot because it runs against all that medicine dictates.

I posted a few videos earlier why not try watching number 1, 2 and 3 or even all 4 and then you decide on your personal view of comprehension and your sole right to it.

akintom:
I particularly wondered why you went that long yesterday, with a paramedic, who is obviously superficial, as far as basic medical science is concerned, talk less about clinical science.

I will not be surprised, if this crusading paramedic, turns out a mere charlatan.

So you tag me as being superficial simply because i hold a contrary more authentic experience based opinion from yours? Thank you for noticing me at least. Its not my fault you have a complex.

CatfishBilly:
I'll pass on this one, before the medics and paramedics come for my head. It's shameful that scientists are lending credence to this charade. Whatever happened to evidence based medicine?
Mental slavery at its finest.

I suggest you take a look at the first video out of the 4 i posted. It would interest you.

In my line of work i witness miracles happen a lot. Impossible saves and all. Can those criticizing this kindly look at these videos and give me their honest opinions


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI-bQhfRUQk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkTx6AxHB-Q


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4JLHnRX1WE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znQJjUb_kD4