₦airaland Forum

Jodera:
I've shown on this board countless times that If I'm certainly wrong over something with so much proofs and fact, I'll apologize, accept my goof and move on. I no stubborn too much to dey form agidi for head or to claim one unnecessary W, afterall we are all here to learn.

In this case,

1.. I've explained to you why someone like Tielemans or Odegaard can't play Partey role and why we need someone like Partey attributes, you still no wan open your mind
2.. I've explained and showed you countless proofs on why Partey is a DM and what DM does but you still no gree nor open your mind
3.. I've explained, used examples, quotes and screenshot on why the word "modern" exist and why it's an official generally accepted word in football terms, you still no gree nor open your mind


And the worst part is that you don't want to even give proofs or reason but you're just always stuck with your claim then start looking on how to punch holes in mine . This is just exactly like our Sambi-tavarez debate where instead of giving me points you just counter my already laid points

And the main reason why I even want us to end it is simple — the basics of that Partey's position is what we have contrasting ideas on.

Until we reach an agreement on that, I'm not sure we'll ever agree on that or even reach a compromise. Reason why I'm leaving it to time. You see it as running away, but I'm not.

Same way I left your "Nketiah will bench Lacazette before season end" to time and it favoured you spectacularly and also same way that you said "Sambi can replace Partey in that role as long as it's the same structure" and it backfired spectacularly.

It's also same way I'm saying let's leave this to time and it'll always have a way of answering all these debates. It's simple.

Here's what we have agreed on...

That Partey does both attacking and defending duties very well.

I just simply asked you what that role is called. You said Modern DM, while I said CM. Which is what we have not agreed on.

Our disagreement is not a matter of opinion or philosophy but misconception, which is what I want us to clear out. If it is about opinion then what you have posted about time will be valid. But it's not.

I will boldly accuse you now of being arrogant based on what we have agreed already.

iamoyindamola:
Squad depth didn't make us lose 3 straight matches but stupid and baseless tactics
He used lonkonga in matches he could easily win

Like Roland said if we buy all the best players and this man doesn't have tactical sense to out smart his opponents we will be where we are
We saw how top coaches destroyed us last season because of his tactical deficiency

He used Lokonga because he lacked depth. Elneny was just a lucky discovery.

We have seen how Arteta's quality signings have performed (apart from the young ones), in terms of tactics he is definitely not lagging behind. Definitely not.

sarrki:
President joe Biden and kashim Shetima in a warm handshake

Imagine if he shakes Tinubu. E go vibrate pass vibrator.

iamoyindamola:
Spuds want to sell regulion
He's way better and younger than Grimaldo though
Not injury prone too

Way better?

Roland17:
Genuine effort to make top 4 you said? This is what you call progress? Since when did "Genuine effort" become a parameter to judge progress? In case you are not aware, these guys including your MCM are not volunteering to play. The last time I checked he just signed a bigger contract, so, please help me understand this "Genuine Effort" progress.

Listen man, if Arteta finished top 4, I would have been more understanding of some of your positions. It is so bad that I did not mind the Haram football if it meant we going to Europe..I mean! We were in position twice, both on a platter on gold but we flunked both chances and your MCM signed his contract once UEL was achieved. FA Cup is great but it doesn't change much neither can it be used as a strong parameter for growth, especially when it doesn't align with your league performances.

Fictitious demands on how to use players? Hahaaa.. I fit type 4 paragraphs easily on this but you are obviously on the Kool-Aid so it would make no difference. Fictitious he said...

The fact remains, we finished 5th before he came and since then, we finished 8th/ 8th and are now back where we were before we took over.

I have no smile to spare for you and your scam

As you admit, we were close to CL. We lost it for one reason - lack of depth. Can't blame the coach for that. Arsenal had the leanness squad amongst the top 6. Very lean squad. The genuine effort I mentioned was hampered by this. With same genuine effort and squad depth, we should be finishing 3rd.

Meanwhile, I understand your conservativeness or inability to waste a small smile for me and my gee. Chill with a shot of akpuru achia (dry gin) e go force you smile . I tried it once and the result was excellent to the external viewer alone.

Jodera:
Like I said, we have different understanding of what we've been saying. I even brought a recent coach quote using the word "modern" and I can even bring more for you if you want but you still insist that it doesn't exist thereby denying the facts.

At this juncture let's just stick to what we know cos it seems we won't meet at a point in this discussion. Hopefully, time will explain it better to one of us. Time explains most things.

Why can't you just accept. If it was me, I'd quickly take a bow and moved on.

I have just explained to you and you refuse after seeing the clear picture.

You said Partey is a DM. I said Partey is a CM not a DM according to what he does for Arsenal. You said he is a modern DM. I asked if he defends in midfield. You said no, he also does attack. I said, if he does both then he is a CM. You said no, it's called modern DM according to some coaches. I asked, what makes it modern, because in the past people have done same, and I gave you examples. You said, it's English and coaches have used the term. I said, it doesn't matter if it's wrong.

If Partey does more than DM in this Arsenal team, doesn't it mean he is something else? Yes or no. Don't run, admit.

Roland17:
Miss me with all the excuses you are making for your MCM… Don’t you get tired of them?

What progress are you speaking about? We were in the UEL when your scam came on board, we finished 8th for 2 consecutive seasons and are now back where we were when he took over, so where and what exactly is the progress you are bragging about? Tell me!

3 years into his reign, no one can definitively see any improvement with the team tactically, other than the fact that we play Haram football and approach games with a defeated mentality to protect and defend. I am sorry, I don’t see any progress you are speaking about because it is non existent.

Is Arsenal the only team that struggle with injuries every season? You have purchased everything you want this season, all I am asking for is one more midfielder, thank goodness Partey looks clean and will be part of the season. Else, it would have been another bout of excuses..

I don’t care what I am labeled on this thread because I don’t don’t tolerate mediocrity, worsestill, your MCM has not done anything to prove me otherwise.

You omit the part of winning the FA cup and getting to the SF of the Europa League when he came in. That's why I said you should see the brighter side, because there are other side's too.

The progress I mean was the genuine effort to finish 4th last season which we lost by the whiskers. Assuming that happened would you still claim he was giving us haram football?

Now, even though, you accept he is getting the right players to create the much needed depth that affected performances last season, you still chose to water it all down by making fictitious demands on how to use the players.

Oga smile at least for once.

Ike gwuru o

Jodera:
Lol, he's a DM. The modern just means he contributes to attacking roles.

But he's a DM.

If I say modern GK, I can't think of anything else than a GK and more.

Meaning Partey is a DM and more

You are now twisting things. If he is a DM then there is no need to say modern just as I have explained.

If he does more than DM it means he is something else. Just admit it.

Roland17:
But we have not seen how the this new team will be integrated or used on the field of play. It’s not about getting new players, it’s about the tactics used to get the best out of them. His current contract expires in 2024 yet he is in no rush to extend despite the signatures, what does that tell you?

If you ask me, I think he wants to see what happens this coming season. I bet you, if we finished 4th this past season, it would have been an easier decision because he would have extended by now.

I swear, I will be dammed if after all these players we still play Haram football and then finish outside top 4. I am not going to be kind or patient this time because there is absolutely no excuse for us to continue parking the bus every time.

We all know Arsenal is a big club and should be playing CL, but you should appreciate the progress made so far towards achieving that.

Take away the injuries to Partey and Tierney, we would have been in CL this season. The lack of depth is what the club is solving now and hopefully things will get better. Try to see the brighter side of things

Jodera:
Bro, I understand you and where you're coming from. But what I certainly don't understand is you thinking that football terms aren't dynamic. Even Dictionary itself is dynamic as it updates every time, how much more ever changing sports that new things are being implemented daily.

Now to the bolded, what makes things to be correct? Is it because Spy says so or when something is generally accepted. I believe it's the latter and once a word is generally accepted then it becomes correct. 10-30 yrs from now, if the word "modern FB or CB" changes to another word then that'll be the new correct word. All these terms deals with present and not about the future so don't worry about what the English word in future will be. Afterall there are many football terms that are used now that weren't used b4(e.g DLP) and there are some football terms that are used before that isn't used now (Sweeper defender)0

All coaches understand what modern FB or DM or CB is, most fans understand it, most fans and coaches and pundits and journalist use them. If for one reason or the other Spy decides not to use it or don't agree with it, who do you think is in the wrong?

If you understand why most fans and coaches understand and use those terms universally and even in discussions, then maybe you'll actually get where I'm coming from, then we can talk about Partey's role understandably

I accept that words are dynamic, but please don't claim them to be correct if they are not simply because people use them. For example, people refer to all northerners as Hausa or aboki, but that will never ever make it correct. So if someone tries to use the better term, don't tag the person as not dynamic.

Again, I am not against anyone using any terms, it's a personal thing, but people should not impose it just because it aids their arguments. There is a reason why inverted commas are used in writing.

Back to the main discuss, if Partey is a 'modern DM' as you put it and hence not a DM, doesn't that mean that I am correct?

REALretep:
A Facebook user and nurse, Chimdindu Onyenwe, narrated her experience with Peter Obi in 2010 when he was Governor of Anambra State during her Psychiatric posting at National Psychiatric Hospital, Nawfia, Anambra State.





Facebook Source

Remove the 'bitter' in your caption. It doesn't make sense.

Imagine being forced to join army and fed with agbado and cassava?

That's government kidnapping.

May Tinubu never happen to us after Buhari

LordviccoDaGuru:
Obituary is nothing, let's watch and see

Is PO the only candidate? You're scared... Really scared

Chinkoalhaji34:
Obi Pandora is a mad dog.

We will tame him at the polls next year and he won’t be able to bark.

Obituary fans will cry blood.

I can see that you are really panicking, it's clearly there in your words and emotions.

2023 is still months away and you are already wetting your sokoto.

But wait o...

SUFFER NOR DEY TIRE YOU?

Jodera:
of course, it's that extra that makes them Modern. That extra abilities and roles they're to do alongside their main roles makes them Modern and that's what you're neglecting. Extra, as it implies is having more than what you originally have, but I no know whether na "substitute" you dey think.

FB nowadays must be good at attack but that doesn't mean they don't defend or neglect their Defensive duties. But they need to have that attacking attributes. 20-30yrs ago it wasn't necessary as all was needed was just to defend.

GK nowadays tends to be good with feet as well as their normal roles of shot stopping. 20-30yrs ago it wasn't necessary as all a GK needs is just shot stopping or good with the hands.

Even strikers nowadays tends to become good linkup personnel and have good work rate as well as their normal roles which is to score goals. 20-30yrs ago, all you needed was a striker to just score goals .

Same with CB and DMs, etc.

For your information cafu and Carlos where the outlier then and wasnt the norm. Even de Lima Ronaldo was an outlier then in terms of striker role and never the norm.

I just showed you that the word modern FB exist, yet you still no wan gree. If with screenshots and direct quotes from a coach using that word yet you still dey turn amala with am, then I guess no need debating it further.

Let's just disagree to agree abi?

I believe I understand you. I also need you to understand me. I am not asking you to agree, but at least understand the point being made

People may say things but that doesn't mean they are correct.

For example, we can keep saying modern striker, modern midfielders etc. In ten years time how do you classify those players? Modern?

I have just shown you that your idea of a 'modern' player has been existing since time memorial. The fact that I mentioned three fullbacks from one country alone shows that it's the pattern of Brazil to always have an attack minded fullback and they promote it in their academy.

A striker remains a striker even in 50years coming, there's nothing like modern. We can only say, so and so abilities are now required for a striker or whatever because of the modern tactics/formation being used.

What's modern is not the player but the tactics or formation.

Jodera:
This is a coach using the word "Modern FB" just recently. That you don't believe in it doesn't make it not to exist.


No problem about the late response bro, it's nothing at all

From his second line you can see that you misconstrued his English.

Here modern connotes someone with extra abilities, just as I have said. He is a fullback. Simple. Just that he performs special roles in the team. In fact, there have been several fullbacks in the past with similar attributes eg Roberto Carlos, Cafu and Marcelo. Nothing like modern in the real sense.

Jodera:
So how would you define Modern GK
and Modern FB?

Or you don't believe in anything called modern FB and GK?

There's nothing like modern GK or FB or anything. A player is chosen to perform certain roles in the team play because of his abilities. You can talk of modern tactics or modern formations not modern midfielders or strikers.

Sorry for the late response. Today was a very busy day.

Jodera:
Well, like you said, we have different understanding of what Partey really is and I respect your stance tho.

There's a reason someone like Odegaard, Xhaka or Sambi can't play that role effectively as Partey and the reason is simple. They can hardly beat the press when crowded, they're not great in tackling or killing off attack before it becomes dangerous, they're not positionally sound and/or they lack presence in that role.

In summary, they're lacking that balance between defensive attributes and Attacking attributes as they seem more of attack than defence. It's the main reason I'll never subscribe to Sambi playing that role(for now) or Tielemans or Xhaka or Odegaard playing that role. And it's that balance I notice you're underrating as you're just focused on Only Partey's attacking quality.

It's also the main reason Ramsdale is a better choice than Leno for Arteta. Aside his ball playing qualities, he's very very good in Saves, aerial dominance (even more than Leno) and shot stopping. That's the balance he has.

Until I see someone who has close to that balance like Partey and fabinho (modern DMs), I'll continue to doubt anybody can take over that role seamlessly strictly because of his attacking attributes

It's interesting how you have been using 'modern' to qualify the 'DM' roles of Partey and Fabinho. I will give it to you for putting both in the same category because that exactly what it is.

You see them as DM but as modern. Meaning that if you take away the modern then they aren't DMs?

Take away the modern in your classification and they are just CMs or DLP as some may choose to refer them. Forget their big frame which confuses people, to think they are DM, they are just unique.
It was Pep who started it with Yaya Toure, then Bousquet, then Fernandinho, etc.
If someone like Pogba calms down, he will play that role very well too.

In summary, there's a reason you see them as modern DMs, but they are actually CM.

Jodera:
Lol, you're just jumbling different things up and confusing yourself.

For example, Neuer and Ramsdale starts build up and attack from the back, they beat press with good ball up top to Midfielders and sometimes go out of their 18 yard box to stop or intercept any counter. Does that stops them from being a keeper?? No. Afterall, the basics duty of goalkeeping which is to prevent ball from entering the net with the use of hands is still applicable.

Compare it to a DM whose basic duty is being focused on defensive attributes like Tackling and interceptions. It'll interest you to know that Partey who have the lowest appearances among all arsenal starting Midfielders have the highest tackles, interceptions and clearance amongst them. This is to show you that he was focused on defending. It's a big reason why we are hardly overran in Midfield once we concede possession or susceptible through counter. Another thing is that he didn't create any big chance for any of his teammates, something his advanced Midfielders had.

While I get that he's instrumental to our team's build-up from the back and help to transition ball forward, that doesn't shy him away from his main duties. It's same way it wouldn't shy Ramsdale, Ederson or Allison from using their hands to save ball even though they now have some other qualities not associated with keeper before now.

And that's the main reason I called Partey Modern DM as against DLP Pirlo is known for

I respect your thoughts. It's clear that we are viewing from different angles. Partey does both attacking and defending. I see him more as an attacker, you see him more as a defender.

The question then boils down to what Arteta sees him as. The answer to this question is final.

I think Arteta sees him as an attacker.

Arteta has always preferred a ball playing DLP in his midfield. Remember he once used Odegaard in that role as a replacement for Partey after his first injury. Though it didn't work out, but we could see his intentions.

Also, Arteta defends from the front. He uses his attackers to begin the press. That's part of why he moved Xhaka forwards from being part of a double pivot to an 8. He wants the presses from the front and not the back.

That means his role for Partey or anyone who sits there in the single pivot (eg Elneny/Lokonga) is for attacking primarily and defending secondarily.

Now the reason I mentioned Ramsdale is so that you will get that the preference for Ramsdale (as against Leno) is not for his goalkeeping abilities but his ball distribution. If it's about goalkeeping only, Leno would be clearly no 1.

seunmsg:
Can’t you obituaries stop crying? Is this the first time Reno is attacking someone? He has been attacking Tinubu and calling him names almost daily since 2015 and folks like the OP supported him. So, what’s all the noise about again? What’s wrong in attacking Peter Obi Pandora? Must everybody support the Pandora thief?

Seun's messenger, I have observed that you have been shouting 'Pandora' upandan and I'm pretty sure you have no iota of what it means or implies.

For the purpose of educating you, Peter Obi was not indicted, it was his investments that were simply made public. There was no criminal activity discovered in all his dealings.

Arsenal have done the right thing making Wilshere the U18s coach. There is no one closer to the club coming from the back of being one with great talents, potentials, expectations and hopes but eventually failed. Best decision.

Jodera:
Who is the last line of Midfield just before you face the defence in our team?

Your answer is Partey, but note that being the last doesn't necessarily mean part of the defence. The job roles for the last men can be different.

*Pirlo was the last man in the Juventus of those days but he is not there for defending.

*Neuer is a GK but he is the sweeper in B Munich

Ramsdale is a GK but he initiates attacks for Arsenal.

Partey being the last man in midfield doesn't mean his role is defending. His role in the team is to necessitate buildup. That does not take away having to defend when need be, but his role is attacking and breaking press. You saw his pass to Nketiah during the friendly? That's what he is there for.

In regards to the topic of discussion, Savic can play that role also if he joins and Partey will not be available. Though, ideally he should play further up as an 8, replacing Xhaka is the first eleven.

Jodera:
Na only you know that one.

You can as well call Gabriel a attacker after all he scored 5goals like Martinelli, Odegaard and Nketiah, na you sabi

It's the position a player plays that matters not what you 'know'...

Na tree wey gather delicious fruits children dey throw stones at.

#PeterObiForPresident2023

Keeping throwing stones...

Bad governance will always bite everyone including those responsible. Ekweremadu is now suffering for the failure of the government he has been part of over the years to create a sustainable health care system. He thinks he can run to UK for surgery and so does not need one in Nigeria. Now it has choked him and his family. A sick and dying daughter plus wife in cell. Good riddance.

Jodera:
Lol .. that's the cause of my concern then

I meant Partey

Jodera:
Can savic play DM cos he is a b2b attacking player
Abi we'll revert back to Xhaka DM again?

To be honest, I don't see Savic covering any Partey anything. I just hope Partey allegations are false else we should look into a competent person

He is not a DM

ovoP:
partey been guilty will take years before dey prove it in court..

Greenwood is still under contract in United.

You are right about this. Hough depending on the evidence available currently, he could be suspended or have his contract terminated.

Jodera:
Just when I thought this is the season Nketiah will be unleashed with goals because of Partey's presence. I was thinking if he could score 5 goals in 8 matches when Partey wasn't around and we weren't so dominant, how would he be when finally Partey is back. Gabriel Jesus is another player that I was really happy for too.

Now, allegedly, Partey village People don go dial him number.

If we get Savic he will cover well. But I sincerely hope the allegations are false, and we will have both.

mostob:
Na why Edu dey go for Savic o. Second bid of 65m officially tendered after the first one was rejected.

After I saw those Partey rumours, I weak because the way we were chasing Savic so fast, they may not play together. If Partey is guilty, Arsenal will terminate his contract.

Arsenal to bid 55m for Milinkovic-Savic from Lazio. The bid is expected to meet the players valuation and a deal sealed in the coming days.

If we sign this guy, we will compete for the PL title. No need to get another RW as Vieira will compete with Saka.

We will only need to secure Martinez and the team is set.

helinues:
One is Obi dient

One is presi dent

Saying this is childish is an insult to children.

Please for the sake of the unborn generation, have sense.