₦airaland Forum

nateevs:
How can price tag not be relevant? How many kids at 19 are sold for £12m? In fact, in football after talent is considered, age is a direct reflection of transfer value. Where that ceases to be the case, the subject in question falls under exceptional. You cannot expect a 19-year-old Messi to cost the same as Charlie Musonda. Why? Exceptional.

So when a Messi at 19 costs his new team £12m, he goes there, in the worst case scenario to be at the door of the first team and in the best case scenario, to play. Not to announce himself to the manager. He's already known quantity. Very different from the case of Chalobah.

Why are we bring Luis into this? Does Zouma(19) at £12m and Luis(28) at £12m mean the same thing in football?




It's not what I say, it is what can happen. Moreover, I tried to push the point of the manager having no need for the player (and hence no requirement to field him). I tried to make that clearer than the "psychology" point of view but you have clearly omitted that.

Now deliberately fusing the psychological element into it, when a manager declares that they have no imperative to develop players from other clubs, and furthermore states that you (loan player at 20) stand no chance, one will be grossly simplistic to claim that this is incapable of denting a 20-year-old's confidence, thereby affecting them psychologically.

How is this not clear?

Just to add.

Rumours linking Chelsea to Lukaku and United's push for Pogba speaks volumes. THEIR MANAGERS DID NOT PUT FAITH IN THEM. Shiit happens, but there are shits you just can't take.

Let Pogba go to Juve for free, got him back for a world record fee? £86millions? THAT'S SHIIT

Ibime:
Bentaleb was injured mate for almost all of last season. By the time he returned the team was set and fighting for title. Bentalebs main competition is Dembele. It was Chadli that suffered at Allis hand because Eriksen was pushed wide to his position while Alli took the AM position.

Infact, I like that guy Bentaleb. I for like make Chelsea sign am.


@ Nateevs,

Most of your points are agreeable. The fact is a manager has no incentive to play a player on loan that the club does not make any money from. That is why Christensen and Musonda had to have 2 years and 18 months loan respectively, because no manager is interested in developing another club's player. That is why Ake's feat last season was so outstanding.

I was also thinking about that boy Jeremie Boga's loan to Rennes last season. Boga is a decent player, a right-footed right-winger. But what chance did he stand loaning him to Rennes to compete for the same right wing position against Ousmane Dembele, one of the hottest youngsters in Europe in the same position who Rennes were trying to develop and sell on for megabucks?

Oga
When a club takes a player on loan, it is not because they want to develop him, it is because they need him.

When a club sends a player out on loan, it is because they feel he is good enough but needs playing time.

Kingsley Conan was on loan at Bayern from Juventus. HE KNOCKED HIS PARENT CLUB OUT OF THE UCL. That is how to make a statement.

Nihilist:
I thought we were discussing Chalobah and Alli. Musonda and Kalas is a different discussion. I didn't not know you were trying to have a wider discussion about youth players.

In Alli's case, this is not about 'having confidence to play him'.

Alli scored 16 goals for MK Don's in his final season from midfield and made PFA team of the year.

It is not Pochettino's 'confidence to play him' that made Alli displace Bentaleb from midfield and later push Eriksen out of the number 10 position.

It is not Pochettino's confidence to play Alli that made him contribute 19 league goals in his debut season.

It is not Pochettino's confidence to play Alli that made Alli score a long range Golazo against France on his first start for England

It is not Pochettino's confidence to play Alli that made Alli the PFA Young player of the year and the youngest member of the PFA team of the year in his debut season.


It's like buying Diego Costa and then saying Jose had confidence in him that's why he scored 19 goals in his debut season

When you're good, you're good.Pochettino did not give him a chance - look up the interview- Alli turned up to the Spurs training ground already better than the people there. Poch would have been foolish not to play Alli sef.


Alli is better than Colket Baker and any other name you mention from that academy. That is that.

True. Kindly tell me why Alli is so good but the likes of RLC despite all the talent could not even make the grades.

nateevs:
Sorry but that is a flimsy example. Kurt Zouma came in at £12m. That's the same amount (inflation aside) that we paid for Arjen Robben. As a matter of fact, Zouma will be given an acid bath if he wasn't closer to the first team than all academy players. And so will Jose for not playing him. Why did he cost £12m ?


And also, you bringing up this example, means you didn't digest totally the crux of the argument. Loan player vs permanent.

Also you cannot pay £12m and say you didn't know what you bought. I am flowing with you.

nateevs:
You are approaching the business of football with very simplistic ideas - the player either makes it or not. That's not how it works fella. There is also the psychological element to it. And the psychological element can be tutored, nurtured and made to grow. All very dependent on the gaffer who takes control. Dele Alli does not have more talent than Lewis Baker. Anyone can take me up on this.

In fact, Dele Alli has no more talent than Jeremie Boga and Charlie Colkett. FACT! Do your research mate and you will find out Dele was recommended to Chelsea by Eddie Newton but Chelsea declined citing that he was not better than what we already have. These are guys who are paid to sniff talent. This tells you that on the basis of talent alone, Dele was not doing what had not been seen.

Instead, what Dele went on to have, is a manager who is reputed for the development of young players. One who does not believe that Manager's success/failure depends on whether a youngster gets game time.

I ask again, do you think Dele Alli would make PFA player of the year if he were at Chelsea?



Then there is the tactical element to football. Talented footballers may or may not fit into systems for a variety of reasons. One player making the jump may be for a tactical reason. Another not making it does not automatically translate to average talent. Tell me what Didier Drogba was doing at 20.

I digress. For reasons of not making this over elaborate, I will stick to the basic argument.

How do you think Nathaniel feels when he shows up at a club he is loaned to and the manager responds with "I never heard about him" ? Because that is exactly what happened. The Napoli manager had no idea about the loan. When a manager does not know about your loan move, it means simply he doesn't need you. Simple as! Your chances are slim; especially as a 20-year-old. There are documented quotes on the internet, of managers who claim they will not waste time developing talent for another team. Especially ones they cannot buy and retain. The player leaves and it leaves them empty. How do you think this affects loan moves? Is it still as simple?

Compare that with Alli who had an arm around him. Why won't he go out and nutmeg someone? At this stage in a young footballers' life, while a large part of making it is about the size of the talent, it is mainly about the mental preparedness and capacity of the player. And only the first team manager can give this to the kid. No 20-year-old is born with this.

You want to compare that to Jose who will not play a young player in a dead-rubber game then when losing 2-0 in a crucial PL game, he throws in Kennedy, RLC and Traore for the last 15 mins, hoping they will get something. What sort of stupidity is that?



Flash back to 2014, Jose just arrived. Chasing the league. Game away to Liverpool. Crucial game. Possible league decider. All Chelsea defenders were out for this tie. In came a young man in the name Tomas Kalas but I must stress, ONLY because our Mr Jose Mourinho did not have a choice. Kalas (then only 20), paired at CB with Branislav. 'This is your chance son'. . . .We all said. 'Go out there and prove yourself. Do it for all young Chelsea players'.

And he did just that. It was a game to remember. And all those who watched will never forget the performance he (Tomas) put in to stop the then blazing SAS. He almost scored a goal for himself. He was so good, popular websites gave him an 8 for his overall display. Talk about taking few chances. Or so we thought. . . . That will go down in history as Tomas Kalas' last game for Chelsea. Despite that cameo and huge effort put into securing an unlikely 3pts for Jose, he was shipped out on loan in the summer by the same manager.

And you are here telling me Dele Alli took his chances.


FACT! If Dele Alli was a Chelsea player, his confidence will be shot to bits and he will be on loan at the moment to Vitesse. You claim we don't have special talent but the Chelsea academy is reputed for winning back-to-back Youth FA Cups and displacing the best of Europe's academy in all age categories? How is it possible to achieve this consistently without the top-of-the-range talent required to make it to the top level?

Summary.…
JOSE KILLED YOUTH AT CHELSEA.

Hope Conte doesn't because Chelsea has got the best young talents in Europe after Barca. Take it from me.

Nihilist:
I'm not sure how to answer this one bros. I've said repeatedly that I don't watch reserve games so I haven't seen RLC at his 'best'. When I've seen him play in the league, he has occupied a spectrum ranging from utter crap to meh.

I mean if the most diehard proponent of youth integraton on our thread had this to say, then who is nihilist to say different.

Easy big fella



Well I watched Watford a couple of times that year. I watched that playoff semifinal against Leicester and watched Deeney break my heart live. Now let me ask you something. Do you remember Almen Abdi? That was Watford's main playmaker that year and the season after. They got promoted and he cant make the team. Ikechi Anya was one of their superstars that year...now he's lucky if he sees a shirt at Left Back. Joel Ekstarand was a defensive mainstay that year and the year after. I don't think he even played last season. Matej Vydra was arguably their best player in thier last season in the champo. I think he's still rotting in the watford reserves.

By Contrast Troy Deeney made the jump. Huerlho Gomes made the Jump.

Chalobah got his chances. Napoli are a big side competing in Europe - what happened? How come he didn't make the Jump? How come did relatively ok in the championship with 3 different teams but floundered when he got to the big boys?

Sometimes, the Championship is where certain players belong.



These are the kind of yarns that irritate me. Dele Alli is not an academy player. Dele was playing in the lower leagues as a professional. When he got his chance he took it. When spurs played madrid in a friendly that year, Alli sharply went to nutmeg Modric. Pochettino said that he was very surprised when he saw Alli in prseason that year because he was fitter than all the Spurs players. Please don't insult Alli by comparing him to Chalobah.

You know how many player of the month Alli has won? You think it's beans to make PFA team of the year in two consecutive seasons?
[img]http://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgWgJictf0TSfLXJf13XUwzTiDr4KsQiVagr-AJxlUFCxqnunY[/img]

Chai I love this.
Nihilist and nateevs hit meee!

Bigkesh and Lana1 take note.

dmcdad:
Wetin you dey try talk? You mean say she be crayfish?

Na you talk ooo. Lol!

kokaneprodigy:
I beg to differ, ain't saying he isn't good but that's not the priority. You making it sound like the mid-field is Giroud's problem.
Get me a striker with a different style if u add Mahrez to the mix afterwards I say it's the icing on the cake.

He is a priority if we ain't getting a striker. Dude can score. Imagine a front three of Sanchez, Giroud and Mahrez with Ozil behind assisting all of them; we go dey pack goals as Lagos people dey bail water when rain fall…

Meanwhile seems Icardi will work. I am beginning to suspect a gang up against Arsenal and Wenger. Clubs don't seem to be willing to sell to us.

kokaneprodigy:
Is Mahrez what we need now? I don't get the excitements.

Guy with Mahrez on the right and Sanchez on the left, Giroud would sound like …

United eating their vomit in a BIG way.

Chestar5:
i no vex for u, na dat spy guy dey make me vex

Baby nor vex, na condition dey make you bend.

Roland17:
I hope Jeff Reine Adelaide transitions into the first team this season, Kid has great technique on the ball.

The lad's got a big future ahead. What's this Mahrez rumour?

Chestar5:
how is it affecting u ehn ....
Dmcdad too ...
Everyone ignored d comment but u .....

I was just getting worried the way you were panting…

Afterall Mourinho say preseason is fake...

Chestar5:
Chelsea played a friendly today against a local side in austria... We won 8-0 ..... Michy scored 2 goals

A LOCAL SIDE FROM AUSTRIA?

Una don't start again o,

preseason kings, relegation lords

lekkie073:
watching d just concluded euros one can conclude dat payet is better than Muller Abi ?

Don't be silly, Payet since a year ago has been better than Muller. Put a Bayern or Barca shirt on him and he would be considered for ballon for

lekkie073:
watching d just concluded euros one can conclude dat payet is better than Muller Abi ?

Don't be silly, Layer since a year ago has been better than Muller. Put a Bayern or Barca shirt on him and he would be considered for ballon dor

lekkie073:
so u followed xhaka's performances for gladbach last season
Chei.....pipuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Wm

I did not say I followed him. You like to assume. I did follow him during the Euros, and compared him with Kante, he was even better than Pogba.

His distribution, composure, accuracy and build up play were superb. No wonder he was captain of M.gladbach.

MrDojo:
Wenger can never part with 50+mil for higuain.....@ 28 for that mata

Lacazette is a beta finisher than icardi, he also scores more goals than icardi...the only draw back is that laca plays in a nonsense french ligue 1, and icardi plays in a tough seria A ( for strikers ).

Every season we are linked to big names but come sept 1...

Wenger will remind all of us how he as four world class strikers in Giroud, Walcott, Welbeck and the new boy Asano ( akpom and co are still there too o)

Most of Lacazette's goals were penalties. Icardi was Inter's captain for a reason.

IZUKWU:
or icardi @£40m age 23

Icardi ahead of Lacazette, but Higuain na baba…

molydonhenry:
Cante is better than them, i watched that guy althrough 2nd half of last season

Kant's better than Xhaka? Since when? Did you watch bundesliga? Or even Euros?

IZUKWU:
who should we sign

Higuain by all means.

What do you think?
Lacazette @ £42m age 23
OR
Higuain @ £78m age 28

bigkesh:
That must be the reason Wenger is single and lonely

Lol!
But he has never been sacked in his entire managerial career.
Unlike Mou...

lekkie073:
a proper striker like asano

Asano > Vardy
Check his stats.

bigkesh:
3-5-2 doesn't use 2 CMs,at least not with Conte

We are playing 4-2-4.......
Hazard and Willian on the wings
Kante and Diawara(hopefully) or Fabregas as CMs
Don't know about other positions,especially the defence
How Juve have Bonucci,Chellini, Barzagli, Benatia and Rugani as CBs.....Then have Alves,Evra,Asamoah and That Swiss captain as fullbacks When we have Cahill,Iva, Azpi and Baba

That's the difference between a well managed club and a Stupid one....
Juve don't even spray cash o

Juve... 4 titles in a row.

Success has many friends.

Phoenix619:
Vardy

Lol!

Vardy would be like 'WTF'

Thank God we didn't sign that guy o, it would have hindered us from getting a proper striker.

raumdeuter:
We all know how Arsenal fans rig public polls

How can Ozil be the best German player where Kroos Boateng, Neuer and Kimmich are

I can give you 5 examples of rigged online polls by Arsenal fans

Since 2010 Ozil has been in every starting line up for Germany in a competitive game. Besides he has won the best player award several times over. Last season he broke the record for assists in the EPL, he was also instrumental to Germany's little success at the Euros scoring a decisive goal in the QF. Think well na...

patrickmuf:
Looks like you're making a mockery of the club you support...lol

This is not a laughing matter. Some couples have broken up because of this. Imagine a man returning from an Arsenal game and his wife is asking for something, the man come push am commot for road with anoyance. Before you knew it, the woman don pack her load shift.

ify4king:
stronghd.tv...... Hope urs is showing now?

You are a good man.

sod09:
make I no lie
I will prefer 10 of giroud to hugain
Him badluck is second to none.....he forced a whole messi to retire
He sabi aw to lose important goals
Imagine him leading AFC to glory in UCL finals and he did his signature....
I swear I won't forgive him

The logic is simple. Let him take you to the finals, then bench him on the last game.

An0nimus:
Do I like this deal?

NOPE.

Really I thought I would be the only one who would not like the deal. Surprisingly even Sod09 didn't like it. Seems Giroud isn't that useless.

Would Wenger sign a striker? We already have

1. Giroud
2. Sanago
3. Akpom
4. Asano
5. Welbeck (injured)

edoyad:
Doesn't the fact that we have to compare a 29 year old athlete to a rivel almost a decade younger speak volumes about that Striker ? Giroud is not skilled enough to lead Arsenal's attack, everyone knows this and Henry told it as it is.
Well, I hope that when you see Henry sitting on the bench beside Mourinho, you take it in good faith

Meanwhile...

Higuain in.... Giroud out.

+ €60million