₦airaland Forum

OneJ:
U said the Saudi Crowned Prince has "the DNA of his father the king. Likewise Jesus. Jesus is God based on his DNA. He is the only begotten son of his father."

My Question for U: I agree U have the DNA of your father, just as Jesus has his father's DNA, but OP, na U be your father ?
Are U one with your father? How do U share oneness with your father ?Or in what sense are U one with your father ? Pls reply.


U said "Jesus is one with his father. Is Jesus the same person as his father? No. "

Nowhere in the Bible did Christ ever gave his God Almighty a command or orders to obey.

Yet, U dey claim that Jesus is the same God Almighty.

Is your statement contradictory ? Yes or no? pls reply.

Shalom

my explanation is very clear. it's you that doesn't have the open mind to understand it.
Just like the crowned prince is of one root(one royalty....he does not have a separate royalty/kingdom, his father's kingdom is his.) with his father, but he is a separate person from his father.


peace

Zodiac61:
This is called making it up as you go along. If he ever existed, his death was useless. He certainly did not die for me or anyone else.

If you are a muslim or an aetheist thats OK. I thought you wanted to understand.

peace

sorepco:
Some of us r trying to learn from that somoye guy. Please dont bring that tribal rubbish here. You saw him debate her and knock her out without insulting or demeaning her.
I think i better join twitter where intelligent matured people converge....

You may start with this. There other intelligent comments up there too.



It's funny to see Nigerians applaud this Somoye guy simply because they felt mesmerized by the figures he's throwing. I know Nigerians hate mathematics and figures but at least common sense and basic principle would make the obvious more obvious.
Admittedly, lack of political conditionalities and supervision (if true) of utilization of the loans is a good thing. But that's just about the only good thing about Chinese loans BASED ON THE FIGURES POSTED IN THIS ARGUMENT. The key features of a good loan shows that IDA is a far better option than the Chinese loans.
The primary features of "better" loan lie in the INTEREST RATE and DURATION OF PAYMENT.
1.INTEREST RATE: Chinese 2-3 (or 3.6)%; IDA 1.25%. which is better? IDA of course. If you doubt it, I would ask you a question: if you're taking a loan would you go for a higher interest rate? I bet you won't.
2. Duration of payment: Chinese 12years, IDA 38years. which is better? IDA of course. In your personal loan I'm sure you prefer longer duration for easy payment.
NOW THE ARITHMETIC FIGURES.
He calculated a total Interest rate for Chinese loans for 12years as 43.2% (3.6x12).
Then IDA loan for 38years as 47.5% (1.25x38). If FG can payoff Chinese loans in 12 years, nothing stops them from paying off IDA loan in 12 years (NOBODY SAYS YOU CAN'T OFFSET YOUR LOAN EARLIER). Based on his calculation of "total interest rate", IDA loan for 12 years gives 15% (1.25x12). So by his own calculation, given the same duration of payment, IDA is still by far the "BETTER LOAN".
If this is your personal loan, I'm 100% certain you will prefer a loan that gives you CHEAPER INTEREST RATE and LONGER DURATION. (Even the Chinese if they can, would take IDA loan and lend it to Africa @Chinese rate and make some profit for themselves.....this is how banks make money if you know). I don't see how this appears like rocket science because it's on twitter but I understand Nigerians and basic mathematics are enemies.
NB: His calculated figures are FUNDAMENTALLY FAULTY as Yearly Interest is calculated from Balance for each Year and not from initial capital. So his arithmetically calculated total INTEREST RATE is misleading. Total interest rate of what, original capital? Absurd. But I don't want to delve into that for now unless someone asks for it. I'm sure that's why Madam Oby left him alone with his glorified ignorance well exposed on twitter.
Ignorance is a disease. Ignorance you're unaware of is incurable.

[quote author=sorepco post=70987720]Some of us r trying to learn from that somoye guy. Please dont bring that tribal rubbish here. You saw him debate her and knock her out without insulting or demeaning her.
I think i better join twitter where intelligent matured people converge....

[/quot


knocked her out? The Somoye guy wasn't making any financial sense at all. Financial fallacy. Read some comments above and get educated if you want to.

TheWordist:
Highly educative
Oby fat lips Ezekwesili don loose guard..
Unfortunately instablog nor dey carry this kind news.

It's funny to see Nigerians applaud this Somoye guy simply because they felt mesmerized by the figures he's throwing. I know Nigerians hate mathematics and figures but at least common sense and basic principle would make the obvious more obvious.
Admittedly, lack of political conditionalities and supervision (if true) of utilization of the loans is a good thing. But that's just about the only good thing about Chinese loans BASED ON THE FIGURES POSTED IN THIS ARGUMENT. The key features of a good loan shows that IDA is a far better option than the Chinese loans.
The primary features of "better" loan lie in the INTEREST RATE and DURATION OF PAYMENT.
1.INTEREST RATE: Chinese 2-3 (or 3.6)%; IDA 1.25%. which is better? IDA of course. If you doubt it, I would ask you a question: if you're taking a loan would you go for a higher interest rate? I bet you won't.
2. Duration of payment: Chinese 12years, IDA 38years. which is better? IDA of course. In your personal loan I'm sure you prefer longer duration for easy payment.
NOW THE ARITHMETIC FIGURES.
He calculated a total Interest rate for Chinese loans for 12years as 43.2% (3.6x12).
Then IDA loan for 38years as 47.5% (1.25x38). If FG can payoff Chinese loans in 12 years, nothing stops them from paying off IDA loan in 12 years (NOBODY SAYS YOU CAN'T OFFSET YOUR LOAN EARLIER). Based on his calculation of "total interest rate", IDA loan for 12 years gives 15% (1.25x12). So by his own calculation, given the same duration of payment, IDA is still by far the "BETTER LOAN".
If this is your personal loan, I'm 100% certain you will prefer a loan that gives you CHEAPER INTEREST RATE and LONGER DURATION. (Even the Chinese if they can, would take IDA loan and lend it to Africa @Chinese rate and make some profit for themselves.....this is how banks make money if you know). I don't see how this appears like rocket science because it's on twitter but I understand Nigerians and basic mathematics are enemies.
NB: His calculated figures are FUNDAMENTALLY FAULTY as Yearly Interest is calculated from Balance for each Year and not from initial capital. So his arithmetically calculated total INTEREST RATE is misleading. Total interest rate of what, original capital? Absurd. But I don't want to delve into that for now unless someone asks for it. I'm sure that's why Madam Oby left him alone with his glorified ignorance well exposed on twitter.
Ignorance is a disease, ignorance one isn't aware of is incurable.

chronique:
if you are a business person,you'd understand why the 38 yrs option is better. it doesn't mean you must wait for 38 yrs to pay up. it simply means that in the first 12 yrs of the 12 yrs option,you'd be paying a very low amount to service your debt thereby,freeing up a lot of funds for capital development which would in turn,boost the economy and when you are doing well,you could eventually pay off the rest. a man(mr A) who takes a loan of 10bn over 12 years @ 43.2%,would achieve lesser than a man(mr B) who takes a loan of 10bn over 38yrs @ 47.5%. over 12 yrs,mr A would spend 1.2bn/annum to service his debts while mr B about 380m /annum to service his debts. imagine the amount of business expansion mr B would record by spending just 380m+ for debt servicing and having so much working capital,in the 12 yrs where mr A is spending 1.2bn to service debts and having a lesser working capital... in the long run,mr B's expansion and growth would adequately cover up for him and he would be able to even liquidate his debt before the 38 yrs tenor if he so wishes. government should be run like a proper business franchise/enterprise if we want to achieve any meaningful development.

Great one there my friend. You got the idea. I tell them that if the Chinese can they would take that IDA loan and keep lending it to Africa @ chinese rate making cool profits. That's how banks make money.

jomoh:
But how do you pay off a loan that has been embezzled.

That is the difference between the Chinese loan and the western loan.

The West don’t care if you have the infrastructure in place or not, they want their money back from any means. And they will even ask you to devalue your currency and retrench your civil servants.

The Chinese loan is self liquidating which means no infrastructure no liquidation, no loan repayment.

At this point in our national life, the interest rate is not our issue but getting the infrastructure in place. We have the population to pay back the loan.

is it the lender that embezzled it?
Beware of Chinese gifts. After the 12years, who maintains the infrastructure? Will you be sure of the quality after the 12 years?

Yea @ Infrastructure. How much loan did Obj take to get the Telecom we're enjoying now. Do the needful and the market will take care of the rest.

jomoh:
Bro you’ve gotten the whole point wrong.

The longer the term of your loan agreement the lesser your interest rate. So do go and do that simple arithmetic on loan interest rates. The shorter the term of loan agreement the higher the interest rates.

IDA “could” be a far better loan when it is utilized for what it is meant for but in Africa it is not so we all know it won’t be utilized. The West knows this.

China loan is also better because they are self liquidating loans. No need to panick as long as the infrastructure is well utilised. We have a population of over 180million. We secured a loan of $6billion with interest of 43% that’s about $9billion(3.6trillion) or less in total repayment.

Are you saying with our population we can’t generate more than 3.6trillion in 12years directly from the infrastructure.

The problem is not how to pay back cos it’s a self liquidating loan.

The problem is getting the infrastructure in place. The western loan do not guarantee the utilization of the loan but the China loan does. Once the infrastructure is in place it can pay off itself.

See my dear nobody stops you from offsetting your debt earlier. it's all up to you the borrower.
Now you have come to the Real Issue, UTILIZATION. That's is a problem with the borrower and not the loan itself. It's for the borrower to get himself together and do the needful.

revolt:
I believe borrowing from China via concessions and visiting their prime minister is a spend thrift. Ill illustrate with this sector. We want out train stations working right? All the president has to do is great laws that allow private participation in railway operations and regulate the sector. Now the private transporter tycoons would come together and if need be (depending on fg position) rally round and look for funds from anywhere in the world thereby taking over the debt burden. The only disadvantage is the services will be pretty expensive at first but with competition itll cone down. The private companies will go looking for the Chinese and whoever is interested. The fg on the other hand will simply watch and keep regulating while making profit. This penchant for socialism by buhari isnt feasible woth nigerians. Moreover a concession means the Chinese engineers can build infrastructures that would last exactly how long their concession is active once they leave theres a possibility these structures will start collapsing. It's still better.

You made sense. Similar to what Obj did in Telecom. No rocket science. Nigeria ain't ready yet. when they are, we will know

jomoh:
12 years is enough for any serious government especially a country with our own population to booth.

38 years is to prolong your suffering. By the time you finish paying the loan of 38years on an infrastructure, the structure is already out of tune then you’re to go back to them to request for another loan to build a modern one.

Let us pay it up in 12 years and forget about the loan.

In taking loans, NOBODY STOPS YOU FROM PAYING OFF YOUR LOANS EARLIER. It's your choice when to offset your loan provided it doesn't exceed the deadline.

As far as principles of finance is concerned, IDA loan is a better one. IDA paid off in 12years still gives you much better "total interest rate" as used by the somoye guy.

gurnam:
What exactly did you “professor” say? Let us know, we want to learn from his fountain of knowledge

I'm sure it won't be different from this.


It's funny to see Nigerians applaud this Somoye guy simply because they felt mesmerized by the figures he's throwing. I know Nigerians hate mathematics and figures but at least common sense and basic principle would make the obvious more obvious.
Admittedly, lack of political conditionalities and supervision (if true) of utilization of the loans is a good thing. But that's just about the only good thing about Chinese loans BASED ON THE FIGURES POSTED IN THIS ARGUMENT. The key features of a good loan shows that IDA is a far better option than the Chinese loans.
The primary features of "better" loan lie in the INTEREST RATE and DURATION OF PAYMENT.
1.INTEREST RATE: Chinese 2-3 (or 3.6)%; IDA 1.25%. which is better? IDA of course. If you doubt it, I would ask you a question: if you're taking a loan would you go for a higher interest rate? I bet you won't.
2. Duration of payment: Chinese 12years, IDA 38years. which is better? IDA of course. In your personal loan I'm sure you prefer longer duration for easy payment.
NOW THE ARITHMETIC FIGURES.
He calculated a total Interest rate for Chinese loans for 12years as 43.2% (3.6x12).
Then IDA loan for 38years as 47.5% (1.25x38). If FG can payoff Chinese loans in 12 years, nothing stops them from paying off IDA loan in 12 years (NOBODY SAYS YOU CAN'T OFFSET YOUR LOAN EARLIER). Based on his calculation of "total interest rate", IDA loan for 12 years gives 15% (1.25x12). So by his own calculation, given the same duration of payment, IDA is still by far the "BETTER LOAN".
If this is your personal loan, I'm 100% certain you will prefer a loan that gives you CHEAPER INTEREST RATE and LONGER DURATION. (Even the Chinese if they can, would take IDA loan and lend it to Africa @Chinese rate and make some profit for themselves.....this is how banks make money if you know). I don't see how this appears like rocket science because it's on twitter but I understand Nigerians and basic mathematics are enemies.
NB: His calculated figures are FUNDAMENTALLY FAULTY as Yearly Interest is calculated from Balance for each Year and not from initial capital. So his arithmetically calculated total INTEREST RATE is misleading. Total interest rate of what, original capital? Absurd. But I don't want to delve into that for now unless someone asks for it. I'm sure that's why Madam Oby left him alone with his glorified ignorance well exposed on twitter.
Ignorance is a disease. Ignorance one is unaware of is incurable.

7lives:
The IMF wahala was all over Africa during that period, the Brazil move and Umaru Dikko fiasco was the reason the British made sure they remove Buhari.
Buhari is a serious head ache to their agenda in Nigeria and Africa as a whole.
Nigerians paid big time then and the country is still paying till today.

The wahala is not with IMF and it's loans. The problem is with your leaders and their utilization of the loans. Its the same loans that banks and some individuals like Dangote are growing their wealth on. IMF don't utilize the loans for you, you do it yourself.

chronique:
i think government should start making basic finance a compulsory course for all higher institution students so they can have an idea of some of these things.

Totally agree. The level of ignorance is amazing.

senatordave1:
My brother leave all this long grammar.the west have en giving us loans since independence yet african nations are still backwards.whenever the west involves themselves in africa,disaster happens.but the short period china has involved themselves with africa has yielded more fruits.the west should only help us military wise while china should help us economically.shikena

I care not about who help you. Help yourself. This I say both to you as a person and Nigeria as a country.

It's funny to see Nigerians applaud this Somoye guy simply because they felt mesmerized by the figures he's throwing. I know Nigerians hate mathematics and figures but at least common sense and basic principle would make the obvious more obvious.
Admittedly, lack of political conditionalities and supervision (if true) of utilization of the loans is a good thing. But that's just about the only good thing about Chinese loans BASED ON THE FIGURES POSTED IN THIS ARGUMENT. The key features of a good loan shows that IDA is a far better option than the Chinese loans.
The primary features of "better" loan lie in the INTEREST RATE and DURATION OF PAYMENT.
1.INTEREST RATE: Chinese 2-3 (or 3.6)%; IDA 1.25%. which is better? IDA of course. If you doubt it, I would ask you a question: if you're taking a loan would you go for a higher interest rate? I bet you won't.
2. Duration of payment: Chinese 12years, IDA 38years. which is better? IDA of course. In your personal loan I'm sure you prefer longer duration for easy payment.
NOW THE ARITHMETIC FIGURES.
He calculated a total Interest rate for Chinese loans for 12years as 43.2% (3.6x12).
Then IDA loan for 38years as 47.5% (1.25x38). If FG can payoff Chinese loans in 12 years, nothing stops them from paying off IDA loan in 12 years (NOBODY SAYS YOU CAN'T OFFSET YOUR LOAN EARLIER). Based on his calculation of "total interest rate", IDA loan for 12 years gives 15% (1.25x12). So by his own calculation, given the same duration of payment, IDA is still by far the "BETTER LOAN".
If this is your personal loan, I'm 100% certain you will prefer a loan that gives you CHEAPER INTEREST RATE and LONGER DURATION. (Even the Chinese if they can, would take IDA loan and lend it to Africa @Chinese rate and make some profit for themselves.....this is how banks make money if you know). I don't see how this appears like rocket science because it's on twitter but I understand Nigerians and basic mathematics are enemies.
NB: His calculated figures are FUNDAMENTALLY FAULTY as Yearly Interest is calculated from Balance for each Year and not from initial capital. So his arithmetically calculated total INTEREST RATE is misleading. Total interest rate of what, original capital? Absurd. But I don't want to delve into that for now unless someone asks for it. I'm sure that's why Madam Oby left him alone with his glorified ignorance well exposed on twitter.


Ignorance is a disease. Ignorance you're unaware of is incurable.

meccuno:
Olakunle Abiola somoye finished work on oby ezekwesili BETWEEN WORLD BANK/IMF2 AND CHINA LOAN
THREAD---

OBY E-Most annoying of this latest round of RISING SCALE of Public Debt by countries of the continent is that the politicians are behaving EXACTLY like the ones who PILED UP DEBTS in the 80s & 90s.

Oby-Chinese attitude to Indebtedness is the HARDEST in the world. I know, because one had to deal with it in the course of my work @ the World Bank, helping African countries to get the HIPC Debt Cancellation.

It ANNOYS ME TO NO END to see our countries BINGING on Chinese Loans.

Olukunle -“Just sign up for plenty Loans...forget about imperatives of Debt Sustainability.” KAI!!
1/ I will be the first to admit that we should be wary of China, but who else would have partnered with us on infrastructure development like the Chinese? with interest as low as 2-3% asides technological and knowledge transfer we also have targeted fundings for agric.

Oby-You are referring to their Concessionary Loan/Grant which is paltry compared to the predominant Non-Concessionary Loan Book it has built up across Africa.
We need to put the feet of our leaders to the fire to articulate and execute market reforms like China did & grew. KEY POINT.

Olukunle -Please ma can you kindly furnish us with the interest rate on the Non - Concessionary loan to Nigeria so we can compare with what IMF/WorldBank can offer us.

Oby- Wonderful! I should furnish you? �
It is the FG you should ask for its Non-Concessional Loan details with China cos it varies.
What I do know though, is that on average, Chinese loans offer an interest rate of 3.6 percent, a grace period of 4 years & a maturity of 12years. /1
Most of African countries borrow from the World Bank as IDA - International Development Assistance (Concessional Loan) countries at service charge of 0.75 percent, a 0.25 percent front-end fee and 0.25 percent commitment charge. 6 year Grace Period & repayment period of 38years.

Olukunle-/1 I insist Chinese Loans are 2-3% not 3.6% as you said recall 2013 loan for airport terminals. According to you IDA is 1.25% (0.25+0.25+0.75) for a spread of 38 years = 47.5%
Yet IMF’s principal charges/interest alone is 0.84% minus front-end commitment & service charge.
But let’s go by your figures, at 1.25% for a spread of 38 years = 47.5% with brettonwood “Conditionalities” which includes “Retrenchment of civil servants” it’s good enough but for Chinese Loan of 3.6% (your figure) with 12 years maturity total is
3.6% x12= 43.2% contd of/1 ...

Recall on Chinese loan there’re Concessionary and Non Concessionary clauses which doesn’t seek to impose their own “Reformation” but rather ensure - through- Chinese Companies that the purpose of the loan is fulfilled (Train, Bridges & Highways).
Contd 1\...

We joined IMF in 1963 yet asides the mismanagement of the funds given to us by our leaders, Nigeria had to suffer retrenchment of civil servants and foreign exchange between the $ to N started dropping exponentially. The Naira started plummeting after Buhari was ousted in 1985

Oby- I shall not enable this, dear. Too much confusing assumptions in your tweets. The worst of them is you not knowing that there is a difference between Lending by the World Bank - Investment in Development needs & Lending by IMF- Balance of Payment needs. It is enough. Tweet on.

Olukunle- I don’t know as much as you do and I concede that from the get go that is why I still used your figures to do the basic arithmetic to reach a logical conclusion of why Chinese loan may be better than IDAs after all.

OBY - You are wrong on that but hardly matters cos again, that’s not the point of my tweets. You have a set mind on what you wish to tell me and therefore keep engaging in Transactional dialogue. Go back and read my Tweet again & see why yours are unnecessary. Blessings.

Olakunle -Sorry but maybe if you just furnish us with the % on the non concessionary loans from the Chinese perhaps we would see the glaring difference between the 100% concession loans of IDAs.
You know people in the FG, for the sake of learning ask them so you teach your boys here ��

@MrSomoye #AppreciationTweet on the Chinese loan and IMF loan thread.

Mummy didn't answer him but did a separate tweet to sub the young man.

OLUKUNLE ABIOLA SOMOYE WIN MANY WITH HIS EDUCATING TWITTER.

It's funny to see Nigerians applaud this Somoye guy simply because they felt mesmerized by the figures he's throwing. I know Nigerians hate mathematics and figures but at least common sense and basic principle would make the obvious more obvious.

Admittedly, lack of political conditionalities and supervision (if true) of utilization of the loans is a good thing. But that's just about the only good thing about Chinese loans BASED ON THE FIGURES POSTED IN THIS ARGUMENT. The key features of a good loan shows that IDA is a far better option than the Chinese loans.

The primary features of "better" loan lie in the INTEREST RATE and DURATION OF PAYMENT.

1.INTEREST RATE: Chinese 2-3 (or 3.6)%; IDA 1.25%. which is better? IDA of course. If you doubt it, I would ask you a question: if you're taking a loan would you go for a higher interest rate? I bet you won't.

2. Duration of payment: Chinese 12years, IDA 38years. which is better? IDA of course. In your personal loan I'm sure you prefer longer duration for easy payment.


NOW THE ARITHMETIC FIGURES.
He calculated a total Interest rate for Chinese loans for 12years as 43.2% (3.6x12).
Then IDA loan for 38years as 47.5% (1.25x38). If FG can payoff Chinese loans in 12 years, nothing stops them from paying off IDA loan in 12 years (NOBODY SAYS YOU CAN'T OFFSET YOUR LOAN EARLIER). Based on his calculation of "total interest rate", IDA loan for 12 years gives 15% (1.25x12). So by his own calculation, given the same duration of payment, IDA is still by far the "BETTER LOAN".
If this is your personal loan, I'm 100% certain you will prefer a loan that gives you CHEAPER INTEREST RATE and LONGER DURATION. (Even the Chinese if they can, would take IDA loan and lend it to Africa @Chinese rate and make some profit for themselves.....this is how banks make money if you know). I don't see how this appears like rocket science because it's on twitter but I understand Nigerians and basic mathematics are enemies.

NB: His calculated figures are FUNDAMENTALLY FAULTY as Yearly Interest is calculated from Balance for each Year and not from initial capital. So his arithmetically calculated total INTEREST RATE is misleading. Total interest rate of what, original capital? Absurd. But I don't want to delve into that for now unless someone asks for it. I'm sure that's why Madam Oby left him alone with his glorified ignorance well exposed on twitter.

OyinO:
Your pale European Colonial Christ didnt die for me. My Ancestors died for me. I am not going to your Greek Heaven of Greek Mythology.

OK.
Peace.

OyinO:
Jesus was killed by 3 nails of Roman soldiers for uproar, blashphemy, teaching against Mosaic Laws and for calling himself King of the Jews. His killers never said they killed him for the sins of the world. And if he was killed for the sins of the world, why is there still sin, sickness and death? Then his death is meaningless to mankind.

My dear I love your question. I understand your confusion... it stems from pastors' confusion on that statement..."it is finished". But if you really understood my "bridge" analogy, you will understand that Christ's death does not mean that sin and "evil" will no longer exist on earth.

"it's finished" means "it's completed". it means that He has completed His work. It means the "bridge has been built". Put in another way, it means "the work of building the bridge has been completed". So humans can now get to their destination... Heaven. However, it doesn't mean Human will automatically be transported to their destination. Each and every individual must transport himself via that bridge to his destination. The journey to his destination via that bridge is a lifetime process with may bumps and delays (personal sins) on the way. So every thought, word, action and inaction of man determines if he's accelerating or decelerating during his journey on the bridge OR IF he has TOTALLY fallen off the bridge.

Another analogy:
Christ bought a ticket to heaven for us, Having the ticket does not take us to the plane and starting our journey. Each individual has to do that himself. Having the ticket does not mean we can't loose it(personal sins) or fall into mud(personal sins) with it such that the mud cover our name on the ticket completely rendering it useless until it's washed clean and our name become legible.

Yet another analogy. this one was used by Christ himself. Christ death opened the gate to heaven. prior to Christ coming and death, the gate was closed. His death opened the gate. But opening the gate doesn't mean automatic entry. You must strive to enter through that gate.
("It's finished" means the gate has been opened, it's now left for humans to strive to enter through that gate).

To bring it to Bible context, Christ death on the Cross opened a way for humans to get to heaven but does not automatically put humans in heaven. Put differently, Christ's death ONLY gave humans a chance to heaven but it is left for the individual to grab the chance. Christ himself said..."only the violent taketh it by force"Mt 11:12. Jesus here used analogy of a gate....."strive to enter through the narrow gate" Lk 13:24. St. Paul said..."workout your salvation with fear and trembling" Phil 2:12.

So Christ's death was never to abolish personal sins and shortcomings neither was it to abolish "evil". Christ's death was NEVER to abolish our FREEWILL (AS FAR AS HUMANS HAVE FREEWILL, EVIL MUST ABOUND).
Christ's death was ONLY to open the gate of heaven for humans. it's left for each individual to strive to enter through that Gate..."the way to the Father" Jn14:6. We must make effort to enter. Any pastor that tells it's "finished" ...just your faith alone, lied to you. By your every thought, word, action and inaction, you're either moving toward your destination or you're stumbling or you're completely missing the way.

So my dear, Christ's death wasn't useless because without His death, there was never any possibility of heaven.... the gate of heaven would have been locked to us. His death opened the gate thereby giving us the opportunity to enter heaven. So know that if we follow His teachings, we will be able to enter through that gate.
He has opened the gate therefore NO EXCUSE. We must strive to enter through that gate.

peace.

post=70818391:
And here is a personal adviser to a former president of Nigeria just some 3 years ago!

Where did he put all these when he was an adviser to the ogogoro master?!

At least they started the process. it showed that they at
least realized the need and started it. it was never going to
be a quick process. it takes time. So don't ask why they
didn't finish it.
The disaster now is that this administration and people
like you don't see the need and keep giving stupid excuses
for something that is INEVITABLE FOR THERE TO BE A
COUNTRY CALLED NIGERIA IN THE FUTURE.
In your lifetime (by year 2050), Nigeria population is
expected to be over 450million. The current system in
Nigeria can never support that population..... that's a fact.
Either of these 2 is INEVITABLE in your lifetime:
1. RESTRUCTURING
OR
2. BREAKDOWN.
Every sane person knows this even if s/he won't admit it
publicly because of political inclination.

Back to Op.

To loose yourself for Christ doesn't mean you're doing Christ a favour or that you're sacrificing something for Christ. No, you're only doing yourself a favour.
It means NOT HAVING TOO MANY ATTACHMENTS while you walk on that "bridge"(as explained above) so that you don't loose yourself balance and fall off from the bridge.

Remember that "the bridge is narrow". It's Strong but it's narrow. You have to walk on that narrow bridge to reach your destination. Do everything to be on that bridge including loosing anything you're inordinately attached to.

Peace.

DSoj:
Talk is cheap. Anyone can say these cos these are a combination of wat diff people have said

WHERE WAS RENO FROM 2011-2015 TO TALK ABOUT RESTRUCTURING WHEN HE WORKED UNDER GEJ AND WAS GETTING WELL PAID?

When in opposition their mouth will be sweet.

Nonsense

At least they started the process. it showed that they at least realized the need and started it. it was never going to be a quick process. it takes time. So don't ask why they didn't finish it.
The disaster now is that this administration and people like you don't see the need and keep giving stupid excuses for something that is INEVITABLE FOR THERE TO BE A COUNTRY CALLED NIGERIA IN THE FUTURE.
In your lifetime (by year 2050), Nigeria population is expected to be over 450million. The current system in Nigeria can never support that population..... that's a fact.
Either of these 2 are INEVITABLE in your lifetime:
1. RESTRUCTURING
OR
2. BREAKDOWN.
Every sane person knows this even if s/he won't admit it publicly because of political inclination.

yeyerolling:
Una no restructure wen una dey power. Abeg fuk off

At least they started the process. it showed that they at least realized the need and started it. it was never going to be a quick process. it takes time. The disaster now is that this administration and people like you don't see the need and keep giving stupid excuses for something that is INEVITABLE FOR THERE TO BE A COUNTRY CALLED NIGERIA IN THE FUTURE.
In your lifetime (by year 2050), Nigeria population is expected to be over 450million. The current system in Nigeria can never support that population..... that's a fact.
Either of these 2 are INEVITABLE in your lifetime:
1. RESTRUCTURING
OR
2. BREAKDOWN.

OyinO:
i thought Nesus was killed and lost himself for christians or humanity so that they will live forever? Why are they now losing themselves for him again? Then he shouldn't have been killed for their sake.

Jesus coming on earth and His death on the cross was to form a Bridge between God and man (Divine and Human). He does not do the "Walking" for man. Man must do the "walk" themselves. Man must use the bridge himself.
Yes the bridge has been provided for by Jesus, it's mans duty to make use of the bridge to crossover and that my brother is a work of a lifetime. With every "thought", "words", "actions", and "inaction" of man in his lifetime, he's either walking on the "bridge" towards his destination (with almost inevitable minor bumps & slumps & delays on the way) Or he's off the bridge entirely and will remain forever separated from his destination.
Yours is to make sure you're walking on the bridge.

EternalBeing:
Self don't truly care about other people's Souls till self has been lost into Christ for Him to control permanently. JESUS had to appear to Peter twice and asked him: "Peter, do you love me more than these(food, houses, money, worldliness)? Then, feed my flock" You are said to have lost your Soul for CHRIST's sake when your major focus in Life is preparing yours and other people's Souls to live forever through YEHSHUA HaMashiach LORD. The original plan of ALMIGHTY CREATOR is for us live forever but HE decided to give and test us with this short life to see how we'll use it first. Those that use this Life to do His Will shall surely Live.

"......but HE decided to give and test us with this short life to see how we'll use it first....."


By this you imply that He doesn't know the future and so His knowledge is limited. That's why He has to test and see first....(a sort of trial and error).

By that you just denied His Almighty status and His omni-scient, potent and present attributes.

it's better to say we don't know than try to explain what we don't fully understand

Buhari/APC supporters. Even a mad man won't support this administration. so seeing their supporters made me believe that juju is real after all.

OneJ:
.

What U read in 1 Cor 11:3 &Ephesians 1:3, is it rocket science?

Why twist Phil 2:6 out of context ?
V5 " Your attitude should be the same as Jesus Christ
v6 Who although existing in the form of God , did not consider equality with God some thing to be grasped"

Going by Phil 2:5 & your insinuations on verse 6, U & I have the same attitude of Christ, therefore, U & I ,are we God Almighty too ? (Abi, U go deny am...)

Pls take note of the expression. ," in the form of God , (not God himself) what U quoted above in Phil 2:6, is different from the Greek interlinear text rendition. Jesus is not Almighty God , contrary to what U insinuated.


"For who has known the mind of the Lord (Jehovah/ Yahweh) that we may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ" 1 Cor 2:6. ( quoted from Isaiah 40:13).


Christ himself does not have the mind of God his Father, he is not God Almighty.

My friend take time to read my Saudi-Arabia King and Crowned Prince analogy. There's nothing too difficult to understand there. So I don't think your case is that of ignorance rather it's out of jealousy just like the Pharisees. It can be likened to a Saudi's citizens being jealous of the Crowned Prince and saying that the Crowned Prince is nothing more than a Saudi citizen appointed to a high post. But within you, you know it's a big lie. He's the Crowned Prince based on His DNA(scientifically speaking). He has the DNA of His Father the King. His Father's blood flows in His veins.

Likewise Jesus. Jesus is God based on who He be. Based on His DNA. He is the only begotten SON of His Father. He has the DNA of God. To say that Jesus is a man appointed to a high position is pure jealousy.

Jesus is God based on His "DNA"(ie by His nature and essence). There are ONLY THREE PERSONS that bear this "DNA"
....The Father
.....The Son
.....The Holy Spirit.
These three persons are UNITED. The three persons are united in their will, interest and purpose as one. The homage you pay to one is paid to all 3. They're so united that in one, you see the other. Jesus said ....I and the Father are one, Jn10:30; if you see me you have seen the Father, Jn14:7-9; the Father is in me and I in the Father, Jn14:10-11. (Are you calling Jesus a liar? You must be a Pharisee)

Jesus is one with His Father, but is Jesus the same person as his Father? ...No. There's the person of the Father, the person of Jesus and the person of the Holy Spirit. These 3 persons bear the "DNA"(nature and essence) of God. These 3 identifiable Divine persons yet UNITED as one is called The Holy Trinity.

It's clear enough for you to understand unless you're one more Pharisee jealous of Jesus.

peace.

Adamh:
Either Jesus was perfectly God or he was perfectly human. Pick one. He can't be both and neither at the same time. Please, try reading what you just wrote and see if it makes any damn sense.

Again you're limiting God's ability. I will advise you stop belittling God.

Jesus left His place in Heaven to become Human....in the true sense of the word(felt hunger, thirsty, ate, drank and even poo like every normal human). He did it because He wanted to and has the abilities. While on earth Jesus was perfectly human. But was JESUS God before coming on earth as human....YES. After His work of redemption was completed, did go back to His place in Heaven as God...YES. Make no mistake about it.
In Heaven He's God. He came on earth as a perfect human but though a human on earth, he was still united with His Father. He finished His work, went back to His place as God...The Prince on The Throne to Judge us all.

Adamh:
So, you're saying that God will willingly bellitle himself to take the form of an ant? Look, I'm not saying God can't take whatever form he pleases, he simply wouldn't regress himself to take the form of an imperfect being because it is literally the most insulting thing he could do to his status as an all powerful all capable being.

....that God will willingly belittle himself".....You are so funny. Will He be "Forced" before? Jesus said it Himself.... "I willing laid It down Myself, no one forced Me, and I will pick It up by Myself".
The ways of God are not the ways of man my friend. He did what pleased him. He has the ability and it pleased him so He did it. You call it "belittle/most insulting", He called it "LOVE"....the greatest manifestation of Love. As if "willingly belittling Himself/insulting His status" to become human wasn't enough, He let humans insult Him, torture Him and nail Him on the cross......insult upon insult.... manifestation of LOVE.

Now my friend what He considers most insulting is you denying Him and His Love just like the Pharisees.

peace

OneJ:
.
"NOW I want you to realise that the head of every man is Christ ,& the head of the woman is man & the head of Christ is God". 1 Cor 11:3.



"Blessed be the God & the Father of our lord Jesus Christ.....". Ephesians 1:3.


Note that Christ was already in heaven when Apostle Paul by divine inspiration made these disclosure.

Depends on what you understand by what Paul said there. What's the issue there? That's Jesus is the Son of God united with His Father or what exactly?

Hear Paul again here
Phil2:6
Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

OneJ:
.


1 John 5:7 (KJV) u quoted above was forged to spice up the fallacy called Trinity. It's a spurious text. inserted into the holy scriptures. Tom , Dick & Harry no be trinity likewise, God ,Jesus & holy spirit.

The authentic 1 John 5:7 rendition is :
"There are three that testify."


"He is called by the name the word of God" ( Rev19:13) because " In the past God spoke to us through the prophets many times but in these last days he has spoken to us THROUGH His son whom he appointed heir of all things"
Hebrew 1:1,2.

Jesus Christ is God's spokesman. In other words, he is God's PRO. Christ is not God Almighty himself.
Shalom.

Forged by you abi?.
Because it chatters your lies, you call it forgery. Continue cherry-picking whatever helps your unbelief until the last day. Why not complete that verse you quoted up there? Are you afraid of the Truth? Only the Truth will set you free.
But even with the selected quote you put up, what exactly is your headache there? ....His Son? By being His son He's automatically God by his nature and essense. Heir of all things? Just like the Crowned Prince, His Father's kingdom and all therein belongs to Him.

Embrace the Truth and set yourself free man.
Peace.

Adamh:
There is literally a verse of Jesus saying he only acts on the commands of God (his 'father') and also saying he can of himself do nothing. Your own bibles shoot you people in the feet severally yet you're too blind to see that.

Yes. Because He and His Father are United so much that the Father lives in him. He went ahead to say that He speaks not by himself but the Father in Him that speaks through him. Thats the level of their unity.

He can of himself do nothing.... That's the truth. The human Christ could only function because of the Father in him. Remember He left His place in Heaven to become Human....in the true sense of the word(felt hunger, thirsty, ate, drank and even shit like every normal human). That human person could of himself do nothing without the Father acting in Him. While on earth Jesus was perfectly human. But was JESUS God before coming on earth as human....YES. After His work of redemption was completed, did go back to His place in Heaven as God...YES. Make no mistake about it.
The Apostles' creed reads...."True God and True Man"
In Heaven He's God. He came on earth as a perfect human but though a human on earth, he was still united with His Father.

Would you tell me it's impossible for God?

Gospel of John is there for you to read and digest.
Peace

Maximus85:
Can you please show us in the Bible?

Same place you read about Baptism, the three persons in Trinity are clearly shown.

"For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." -1 John 5:7
Gospel of John chapter 1......the Word = Jesus.

Therefore, the Father, the Son(Jesus) and the Holy Spirit are one.....Trinity.