₦airaland Forum

BankeSmalls:
Their intent is to spread negativity here. Pulling out all reasons why igbos are weak and disunited. They attack states and yesterday, they attacked zik, Okpara, ojukwu and Ekweremadu.
These people are bitter afonjas.

You were not here yesterday when we discussed about okpara who developed eastern region as the WORLDS fastest growing economy, not just africa. So I forgive you for that.

pazienza:
On quoting Achebe. I'd advise you stop quoting him out of context.

Superlightening/Obi1kenobi. I remember we have had this Achebe argument before. Remember?

Oh now its Obi1kenobi? Its no longer redflame or abagworo? Lol..... See confusion. Sorry to confuse you o....Lol

Handsomegod:
That all you are about have been how to magnify "Igbo weaknesses" already revealed who you are! Youve been busted sir. I challenged you to send the quoted materials. I have mine ready.It is a challenge. In the absence of that,scurry back to your skull mining enclave.You foolishly revealed your identity by yourself. Again,you are the reason Nigeria needs to be disbanded or sold off at OLX. Scurry to your hole and leave Igbos alone.

Nwa-agbu ka-ibu.....

BankeSmalls:
Abagworo, go and rest.

First they called me redflame, now its abagworo.... Wow, this is cute and interesting...lol

Handsomegod:
Oga i dont understand you. You asked for evidence where Israel parroted and boasted of their achievements,i gave a RECORDED youtube link of Isareali Prime Minister himself singing his country's praises .I also mentioned i will give you 15 more if you are willing to see them.
Now instead of you responding in kind,you lifted a blanket statement from Achebe as your evidence of Igbo crude showing? How much more pathetic can one be? What da heck are u up and about?

I was about sending you MORE quoted materials from SEASONED IGBO MEN about our own shortcomings as a people, but then your uneasiness brought your weakness out.

Achebe's authoritativeness should even silence all your attempts in disproving me. But you have no regard for seasoned minds.

I am NOT in for banters and childish arguments. Mature Igbo will understand what am saying.

Ozibe:
I suspect he is an imposter. But this time taking a more subtle way to blackmail igbos or derail the discussion

Say whatever you like. Keep suspecting. Your are inconsequential.

BankeSmalls:
Can you please quote Achebe where he said Awolowo was a bigoted tribalist? Please help us on that.

My sister, I know you are arguing just to win and not for understanding. You can't offend me nne. Lol...

BankeSmalls:
That's politics. Tell that to the hausa guys who slaughtered hundreds of Yorubas at mile 12. Where was the bedmates then?

That is a child's play compared to the feelings they have against Igbo people. That incident wasn't occasioned by any yorubaphobia, it was a simple case of good business gone sour. How often do you hear these stories about them?

Handsomegod:
Just so we all are clear. Kindly give me notable examples where Igbos openly rubbed their achievements in other people's faces. I thought the long and comprehensive article by Pazienza ought to cure such asinine vitriol but i can see you are determined to progress with the same jaundiced narrative employed by the detractors to keep Igbos down.
In what way was the German reality related to the Igbo? Germany set out to militarily take over Europe and institute the superiority of the Aryan race. Please can you give me one single example where the Igbo set out to militarily conquer or desecrate another group? Again,give me examples of unbridled pride and arrogance of the Igbo. I assume you are Igbo hence it is sad we are having this discussion centered on unfounded stereotype in 2018. Please avail me.

Again let me quote Chinua Achebe, a globally respected Igbo intellectual:

" I will be the first to CONCEDE that the Igbo as a group is not without its FLAWS. Its success can and did carry deadly penalties: the dangers of HUBRIS, OVERWEENING PRIDE, AND THOUGHTLESSNESS, which invite envy and hatred or, even worse, that can OBSESS THE MIND with material success and dispose it to ALL KINDS of CRUDE SHOWINESS. There is no doubt at all that there is a strand in contemporary Igbo behavior that can offend by its NOISY EXHIBITIONISM and DISREGARD for humility and quietness ". (Page 76, There was a country)

Achebe observed this too on the day to day activities or behavior of his kinsmen. Give me another minute pls....

Handsomegod:
Just so we all are clear. Kindly give me notable examples where Igbos openly rubbed their achievements in other people's faces. I thought the long and comprehensive article by Pazienza ought to cure such asinine vitriol but i can see you are determined to progress with the same jaundiced narrative employed by the detractors to keep Igbos down.
In what way was the German reality related to the Igbo? Germany set out to militarily take over Europe and institute the superiority of the Aryan race. Please can you give me one single example where the Igbo set out to militarily conquer or desecrate another group? Again,give me examples of unbridled pride and arrogance of the Igbo. I assume you are Igbo hence it is sad we are having this discussion centered on unfounded stereotype in 2018. Please avail me.

Alright then, give me a few minutes....

BankeSmalls:
Who told you? Hausas will tear out yoruba eyes if given half the chance. and fulanis will erase everyone else. We are in a hostile world. All of us.

Lol.....my sister you know that the Yoruba and Hausa can set aside their differences just to fight the Igbo. So it tells you that when the shit hits the fan, its all against Igbo. Yoruba and Hausa are bedmates.

Ozibe:
Then maybe you should read Thomas Sowell's essay, "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" and "Are the Jews generic?" Where he discussed about the middleman minorities, to which he listed the igbos as one. He talked extensively about the typical character of the jews ( representing the middlemen). How they start mostly from being agrarian, then graduating to trading, to taking with collar jobs and then manufacturing. Most importantly he talked about the brashness, lousiness and arrogance of the Jews.

You can as well, once in a while visit UNZ.com where issues about racism, heredity, world geopolitical economic and military politics are discussed. Its another interesting forum.

It was on the forum, igbos were rated as one of most high achieving black race in America and in the UK even performing far better than Indians and Asians when grouped by ethnicity . igbos were used as a sample to disprove white superiority over blacks.

I know Thomas so well. I know chisala as well with his popular paper on IQ and heredity. These guys aren't Igbo, yet they blow our trumpet for us, that's how it should be.

Igbos ingenuity breed natural hatred towards them. I know that, but its our own duty not to aggravate it unnecessarily.

BankeSmalls:
Unbridled pride is when you block the whole road just to throw owambe party

Unbridled pride is when you claim suffersticated while mud house may collapse on your old parents head any moment in Obomosho

Unbridled pride is claiming smart with new cars and plenty oloshos even when you own no single house in warri or sapele, while claiming Edo blood.

Unbridled pride is claiming born to rule, as a stark illiterate, while your whole community are beggers and almajirins.

At least, these ones know that they are NOT in a yorubaphobic or hausaphobic society. That's why they are the way they are. Politically however, they go stealth many atimes.

There will always be haters, but let's also ensure we are check ourselves too.

Unbridle pride and arrogance won't help us. It never helped anyone. Germany has learnt their lesson, albeit the hard way.

Handsomegod:
I was also part of those who were somewhat disappointed at your views,having thought earlier you can be circumspect enough to detect the dynamics of the Igbo dilemma in Nigeria. For you and Basilo and the rest of howling mob,Igbos need to be perfect and prime to be fully accepted as equal and worthy of emulation. Sad to say.
You went ahead to commit another blunder of saying Israel makes no noise about their achievements.For a start,refer to the attached youtube link. I will supply 15 other youtube and reviews all screaming Israels achievements from the rooftops.
Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niqRPt8SYmM

This is Israel when pushed to the wall.

Not the nascent Israel of yesteryears when they were still vulnerable and developing. Other nations were the ones blowing their trumpet for them.

Also, rubbing ones achievement ON OTHER PEOPLES FACES is improper, Israel, except when challenged or pushed to the wall, NEVER did that. Pls show me where they did.

This video is netanyahu speaking. Netanyahu is a recent Israeli leader in a period where Hezbollah has openly challenged their strength.

basilo101:
Well, he takes all the blame for his naivety and shares it with no one else

Sure, just as other Igbo leaders before and after him takes blames for their own shortcomings too.

basilo101:
Subtlety is the potent weapon for modern imperialism. You can't brashly show domination and expect the other to fold hand.

Absolutely.

basilo101:
Peace tour in a strife ridden country and throwing caution to the wind? Buhari dealt with Dansuki and zakzaky, was it to please igbos? He also cancelled tours to SE and SS when tension was too high

That era was so different from now. He naively believed the military cadre will not be compromised. Then Nigeria was still young as a nation.

xfactor23:
How come, the dude looks like an afonja? Just asking sha

Maybe you are not seeing well. Just assuming sha....

BankeSmalls:
I understand you. Igbos must find a way to cover all the tall mansions they own in all parts of Nigeria, deny their bank accounts and walk on foot instead of owing cars just to please Nigeria?

I thought you were smarter than this?

You obviously didn't understand me.

Its not about the achievements. Its the unwarranted noise and drama we make about it, knowing fully well that we are in an igbophobic society.

Israel makes no noise about their achievement unless they are being challenged by their neighbours. Same with UAE, Germany, Singapore.

Our unbridled pride is our Achilles heel.

basilo101:
So who do you blame? You gave your enemy enough justifiable reason to finish you. Should you not blame yourself? Ironsi should have executed the coupists not necessarily to please the North but strengthen his own grip of power, he should have imprisoned celestine ukwu (remember he is from my state). He should have also executed the northern coup plotters and it will be justifiable. And he should have conducted election as fast as possible

Ironsi set up a tribunal to prosecute the coup plotters after he must have concluded his peace tour. His nationwide tour to placate every region starting with the western region where he met fajuyi. The counter coup didn't allow his plans to see fruition.

The north was grievous because they had lost grip of the centre, not necessarily because the sardauna or maimalari was assassinated.

Igbos - our overconfidence in ourselves has made us loud and predictable. We need to go stealth if we must progress in an igbophobic society.

Yes, we are unapologetically human, but we must not rationalize our shortcomings. China Achebe in his last memoir, "there was a country" was displeased by the "showiness", "arrogance" and "noisiness" of the Igbo man. It has to at least be subdued if not stopped.

pazienza:
Well, we can agree to disagree.
We are all Igbos. Our fate are linked, whether we want it or not.
Imi bewe, anya ebewe.

Let's look at each other with love and learn to try and see the good in each other.
I enjoyed our exchanges.

Udo.

Udo diri gi nwannem

Bede2u:
stop replying him...he has over 30 monikers...u dont wanna talk with him believe me

Thanks a lot. Advice taken.

onuebonyi:
Add your own but whether you want to accept it or not Anambra is the leader in the SE.

You have proven to be a waste of time. Keep deluding yourself. I will be nice enough to ignore you.

Chiwude:
You're getting on my nerves now by replying that dude. Are you for us or against us I ask.

I am for common sense. I hate divisions. Stop the division.

onuebonyi:
Let me enlighten you. Eyo Etta won in the Eastern region while Zik won in the Western region. When the SW did their politics and Zik lost out, he quickly moved to the East and removed Eyo Etta and replaced him with Okpara. Go and read your history

Sorry, alternative account says otherwise. Yoruba at the last minute rejected zik, who later ran back to bully eyo ita out of the leadership. Okpara was too good to be ignored and he proved himself as such, zik appetite for leadership was at lagos capital at the time. Okpara was just as Igbo and good (if not better) in leading the eastern region. So he owes zik NOTHING, he has long paid his due.

onuebonyi:
Igbos nwere mmadu

Anambra-- Zik, Ojukwu, Ukpabi Asika, Nwafor Orizu

Abia --Michael Okpara

Ebonyi-- Aja Nwachukwu

Imo-- Mbadiwe

Enugu--- ??

What are you getting at impostor? Subtly projecting your ANAMBRA complex?

Abia - Okpara, Alvan Ikoku (check your N10 note portrait), Ironsi, Jaja Wachuku.....

Keep abia state off your freaking list, we ain't your mate. Respect yourself sir.

onuebonyi:
Without ZIK, Okpara would not have been the premier of the eastern region.

without Ironsi, ojukwu wouldn't have become the governor of the eastern region. Touché?

InyinyaAgbaOku:
So, folks, what do we do about these our new age Igbo governors?
They invited the FG to fight IPOB. i'm not even a member of IPOB but the fact the invited the army to kill our people means we are dealing with Ironsis, so what do we do?

My brother it may seem as if I'm an ironsi apologetic, but how would Ironsi, who is accused by the north of shielding his coup plotting kinsmen, be one to allow northerners to attack IPOB?

If ironsi were to be today's leader in alaigbo, he would be accused of shielding IPOB and his othet igbo kinsmen.

InyinyaAgbaOku:
Yet another non visionary person who placed national interest above tribal ones.
What the hell do you want to clean 'Nigeria' of bad leaders for?
Why not concentrate on your own Midwestern Region?
And the silly talk of the plan being about making Awolowo president afterwards makes me shiver. What stupid agenda is that?
Why couldn't Awolowo's people do that job alone ? Yet, after everything, the same Awolowo's people are part of those that wrongly labeled it an Igbo coup and made sure it stuck. The same Awolowo punished your people.
It's a lesson for all these Igbo people that thing being ethnocentric means being bigoted and go on to carry Nigeria on their heads like Gala.

The other non visionary one is Ironsi. He was the worst. The news of his imminent assassination was revealed to him by a younger Igbo soldier , as soon as it was freshly planned. But Ironsi went ahead to expose the same guy to the army, asking him to repeat what he told him in private, before everybody, accusing him of promoting tribalism and calumny against the Nigerian army. A DPO told me this.
The army eliminated the Igbo soldier and of course, Ironsi , afterwards.
The only thing we can do is not to allow these events to play out again

Ironsi was simply naive, he believed no soldier could go against the military cadre and attack him. He was also trying to placate the north.

I once blamed him for so many things gone wrong, but I discovered those after him were a lot WORSE.

pazienza:
Herbert Macaulay was no Igbo leader, Zik was. That's the difference.

There were many advice coming from all quarters for Ojukwu, ultimately, he couldn't have taken everyone's advise. By the way, do you mind explaining what you mean by "wise counsel" . Can you enumerate those wise counsels to Ojukwu that he rejected, let's see how wise they were, taking cognizance of the situation then.

Ironsi created a big mess. First he dissolved Igbo Union. Then he went on a folly driven mission to unify the government. Then he failed to present Nzeogwu and co to the North to butcher, since he was eager to please them.
If he wasn't going to butcher Nzeogwu and co, the next option was to surround himself with Igbo officers and carefully eliminate Northern officers who posed immediate danger.
Instead he did the opposite. He kept Nzeogwu and co alive, and then went and surrounded himself with Northerners. His decision to centralize the government made the propaganda of "Igbo coup" propagated by western region media gain more credibility.
Ironsi contributed a major part to the break out of Igbo progrom in the North, his poor leadership allowed the counter coup to occur. He was easily the worst leader in Igbo history and he left the young Ojukwu with too much mess to clean up when he was murdered.

Nobody is belittling anyone. And nobody has stopped other Igbos from celebrating their own achievements, but want won't happen is those who don't want to celebrate their own achievements, feeling aggrieved about Ndi Anambra celebrating theirs.

I don't know the point you are trying to make. NCNC was founded by who? Herbert Macaulay. In which party Zik grow to establish himself? NCNC. It had nothing to do with tribe. It has everything to do with having a springboard to launch from and identify with. Why was zik even eyeing the western region under NCNC when he wasnt even a Yoruba? So my brother, it had nothing to do with being Igbo or Yoruba.

Ojukwu's sins are a kettle of fish altogether. I wouldn't want to digress too much in it neither do I want downplay ojukwu altogether. Of all advices and counsels, it was ziks, okpara's own he didn't give opportunity to at least listen to. Ojukwus actions and inactions will be extensively discussed another day.

Ironsi banning Igbo union and other ethnic organizations at the time as well as abolishing regional embassies, was a bid to unite a country threatening to divide along ethnic lines. He even brought in the infamous unitary system, all in a bid to make Nigeria one by all means. He naively wanted to unite Nigeria the "barrack way", and uniting the country meant placating the grieving northerners (who secretly were grieving because they had lost grip of national power).

These actions were honest but grave mistakes, it didn't make ironsi the worst Igbo leader. Enough of the one sided narratives being made against him. Recently, reevaluations on ironsi's stewardship as head of state has been made by political pundits. He was the first military head of state, others after him learnt from his naivety.