₦airaland Forum

@ojesymsym,

I hear Gadaffi is about to recognise the rioters as the legitimate goverment of UK. After all, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

@yeswecan,

You are a slowpoke if you think 'identity politics' is exclusive to race,

I see you are also infected by the same malaise that plagues all liberals - the false notion that you are smart when you call others names.  You know what, it is only a sign of immaturity and lack of self-control.  Please consider how to let go of such bad manners.

There is nowhere in the States where identity politics is more powerful than in the Tea Party, in short, tea party is the definition of identity politics. In your head identity politics means supporting your race, sorry its more complicated than that.  "Its a tendency for people of a particular religion, race , social background, etc, to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics". Thats tea party . . . without the bolded part there is no identity politics  . . This is specific not the common parlance.

Again jumping to conclusions based on what you assume that I think.  Let's go by your definitions to arrive at a conclusion here.  Can you prove that ALL Tea Party members without exclusion are bound by religion, race and social background as you listed above?  One thing binds them together - ideology.  While there may be fringe members who have other motives, the rule is very clear. Tea Partiers are bound together by the ideology that a weaker central government coupled with stronger state govt is necessary for the well-being of the republic.

You are not making any sense, i presented specific arguments to support the proposition that 'Obama is a moderate conservative' by his actions; you need a counter-argument to talk back.

It's sometimes better to let others continue in their delusion.  This explains my not bothering to counter your erroneous statement.  You make an argument from a premise that I chose not to accept. For instance, your premise with regards to Obamacare assumes that I agree that the FG should provide universal health care.  If I agree to such a premise, then you will be right to say that Obama is moderately conservative because he did not push for a single-payer system as his ultimate goal.  As a conservative, I do not believe in the govt taking over the health care system, so how can I even think someone who pushed for the system is a conservative?  Go figure!!!

I supported Obama because i thought he was a true liberal that is willing to discard traditional values. Now i know i thought wrong juding by his actions, it has nothing to do with his colour.

Like I have said several times on this forum, many supported Obama based on their projections of what they assume he is.  You are just one of many gullible folks who are now admitting what we have said earlier. Your case is a lot different though, considering that your profile name is same as Obama's campaign theme: "yes we can".  Is that just a coincidence or the full manifestation of identity politics?

And for your information my support for Obama means nothing i am Nigerian and proud. Debating US politics is like playing a video game to me, its nothing personal, i'm a mere visitor in the western world.

This is the most sensible thing I have read from you.  I wish people like cap28 can just admit same and stop hating on the US because he was probably denied a visa!!!

@yeswecan,

No one is playing identity politics but you. From the inception of this thread you declared your support for two Tea party members only because, in your words, they "inspires liberal rage" - so it is clear. The puzzle is the question of identity on your part.

I proclaimed muted support for two White Women and you accuse me of identity politics?  You wanna go search out what that phrase means?

For your information my support for Obama came to an end somewhere along the extension of Bush tax cut - borrowing from pre-elect 'He's Useless To Liberals'. I do not see why he keeps getting support from the Liberal camp since he is more conservative than Mccain can ever be (in his actions): He put forward a health plan almost identical to those that had been supported by Republicans, pointedly rejecting the single-payer option favored by liberals;  he extended bush tax cuts;  the recent debt-ceiling deal came with cuts on social services and no tax increase for the rich. The guy is making the poor poorer,  he even continued Bush’s war and national security policies even though they are the main causes of US debt.  The guy is more useful to conservatives, this is also why i do not get the teabaggers  . . .

I will let you continue in your delusion that Obama is anywhere conservative.  What I will want to know is why you voted for someone who's track record if any, does not reveal who he really is?  Could your identity politics have influenced your initial support?  Are the facts and reality now pushing you further away from an earlier stance?

I do not denounce tea party because they are predominantlt whites i denounce them because it is a RACIST organisation. You do not need a pair of binoculars to see that . .

You guys continue to press the self-destruct button with all these baseless accusations.  More Americans are beginning to see that all these accusations are nothing but slander for political advantage. First they are attacked as being uneducated, then bigots, racists and now terrorists.  Americans are beginning to see that the Left's modus operandi involve the destruction of the character of those who stand against them.  They tried to destroy Reagan, Bush, Sarah Palin, Justice Clarence Thomas, Bachmann etc., not based on the substance of the debate, but on campaign of lies.  The end is coming to this, and it is fun to see you guys unhinged.

@JeSoul,

A real darn shame. Malleable is downright the perfect word for Romney. He doesn't come off to me as someone with the strongest of convictions. On the flipside Bachmann and my hunting buddy Palin do, but they're just such polarizing figures. I believe it is possible to be of an ideological persuation but be able to win the (reasonable) opposition. And having an opinion on a matter doesn't mean you're always right, but be willing to listen to the other side as well. The more I look at politics - especially we the populace - the more I think our major differences are just misunderstandings. We all want the same thing (for the most part) - I think its the politicians that are screwing with us . . .

It appears you have accepted the narrative without question. What makes them polarizing other than they do not give in to the premise and the spirit of Washington? There is no way you can stand for something and not be seen as ideological. Reagan was a harmless, lovable fuss-ball, and yet was excoriated by the Left in this country. What about Clarence Thomas?

Lol . . . you've done your homework. I haven't looked into the details of the deal. Everything na trickery now I will like to think they made out as best they could not that I trust any of them. But word is the new sheriffs in town (tea party congressfolk) are laying the law down, we can be at least hopeful the spending spree will be halted. We can slowly eat into the debt one bill at a time . . .

I am trying to be as optimistic as you are but it's gonna be tough. Some inside info reveals that the hierarchy in the RNC actually threatened some Tea Party congressmen of redistricting their blocks so as to keep them from coming back to the House. Who needs the Left when so-called conservatives take such aim at you. Word is these Tea Party folks didn't back down and called their bluffs. We are in for some interesting times.

Really hmmm . . . do you have a link where I can check out the bill?

Details are still being revealed, however that is just how Washington works. Check out the following article I just was on yahoo! One can only wonder why they waited till that terrible bill passed before writing the piece.

Much of the problem has to do with the language of Washington, which, you might have noticed, is different from the speech you hear almost every other place on Earth. When most politicians talk of "cutting" spending, they don't always literally mean that they intend to reduce current spending levels. Instead, under this version of fiscal discipline, Congress merely agrees not to spend as much money as it initially had planned. Once that deal is struck lawmakers then turn around to sell their proposals as "cuts." http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/congress-did-not-actually-cut-federal-spending-201521533.html

@yeswecan,

I'm at work now and can't respond adequately to all the posts. I thought I should take a stab at your post for now pending when I can do justice to others.

I do not deal with people with the premise that they are out to get me. Everybody has to be dealt with based on their merit and not lost in a group. This mentality of us against them is partly to blame for the problem we have in Naija where one tribe distrusts another leading to polarization.

It's okay if you distrust the Tea Party. What I'd like to know is if you trust Obama too? I do not play identity politics, not in Naija and certainly not in the U.S. I cannot support Obama simply because he is Black (half black if I may add), neither can I denounce the Tea Party simply because we are told they are predominantly White. Doing otherwise will make me no better than the racists and tribalists that roam the WWW like cap28.

It's easy to assume the role of a victim and declare that it's all the White man's fault. As you can see, such an effort will make you an instant hero and bring you simple minded followers who rally around the excuse that it's all somebody else's fault. People like cap28 thinks bravery or enlightenment is sitting behind a computer in a run down cyber cafe and call those who achieve results in spite of the system names. Where do you begin to reeducate duchy delinquents?

@cap28,

I have said before that comprehension appears to be the problem of some Leftists. Can you isolate any point made in that article that is distant from what the Tea Party stands for and is clamoring about? From the bailout, TARP and the unholy alliance between our Govt and Wall Street, the Tea Party stands shoulder to shoulder with the author in decrying the mess we have found ourselves and the way out of it.

The only area that there may have been a divergence of opinion is in taxation (though this was not mentioned directly in the article). The Tea Party's call for the Bush tax cut to be made permanent is for the benefit of small business owners that have erroneously been called "the rich". When terms are properly defined, and issues clearly laid out without any bias and slander, we will see that what is been advocated by both parties is basically the same. Don't let your feigned and unjustified hatred for these Patriots cloud your judgement of the real issue.

@JeSoul,

Tayo all by your lonesome in here huh?

That won't be the first or the last time.  Rest assured though, I can handle all of dem delinquents and propagandists alike.  God pass all of dem.

With all the polls going round, I think the nomination is Mitt Romney's to loose

That's a shame isn't it?  It is McCain Part 2 all over again.  I personally like Romney and T-Paw but I think both are very malleable under various circumstances. Knowing the kind of pressure a President is subjected to, I will love someone who has the backbone and the constitution to stand their ground without backing down.  This is where personalities like Bachmann and maybe Palin appear more acceptable.

I am with you on the spending part . . . something, someone, somewhere must put a stop to the cash-spree the govt. has been on.

Do you know what our biggest problem is?  It is actually base-lining.  I found out that much during the MN govt shut-down.  Our shut down happened because the Democrat Governor insisted that the Republicans have cut the budget substantially, even though the Republicans approved a budget that is about 12% higher than the previous year.  Apparently, the State govt. budget was automatically baselined to rise by 15% from the previous year and all we hear were allegations of draconian cut because the legislators approved an increase of only 12%.

All the ignorant Democrat stooges too, who do not lack in zeal were everywhere shouting cut, cut even though there was an increase in spending.  This is one other reason why the Tea Party continues to prove attractive to a lot of people.  In the status quo, we have to pick between those who want to grow the govt by default and those whose alternative is to cut its size a bit less than their rival.  It's time to reject both of them!

At the national stage also, we are giving Obama an immediate debt ceiling increase of up to $900 billion dollars to be spent right away between now and December but the corresponding cut will be spanned over 10 years. What sort of accounting trick is that? And by the way, the cut is not really to existing bloated programs but to anticipated and base-lined future increase in the government. I am really tired of this nonsense from both sides. No one wants to do the right thing, and all are only concerned about the next election. It's frustrating!!!

@Ibime,

Mr Man, stop all this context, post text and pre text. . . all na pre-tense.

No, na common sense!!!

That someone would be so insensitive as to pull up the issue of slavery and black children says all I need to know about her.

There is nothing insensitive about it.  So we cannot have a discussion about slavery because of its sensitive nature?  That was just a sad narrative that one will expect that children will grow up more in two-parent home today than was the case during slavery when couples were forcibly separated thereby breaking the home.  It's unfortunate that a combination of social, economic and political factors have turned things upside down.  That is the point of the whole message.

More white children were in two-parent homes during slavery period, so what is their point exactly?

Like I said, go read the report.  The point is about the break down of American family structure, be they Whites, Blacks, Mulatos or albinos (like you )

Bachman ko! Batman ni! She should stick to witchcraft which is what she knows best given her history as a witch.

Another hit-piece.  When did you learn the art of this hit and run?

@ola olabiy,

I will echo Kobo's sentiments that you need to turn off the T.V. some times. Did you cry that Obama and co were sending the US into the abyss at the time he, Reid and many others on the Democrat side of the aisle voted against raising the debt limit? Why did Obama declare it was a failure of leadership to raise the debt ceiling years ago and yet champion the cause today? You will need to overcome sentiments to address this issue and others with clarity and consistency of thought.

@cap28,

I am not responsible for your lack of self-control. You are here falsely, ignorantly and lazily accusing others of racism, and yet you can easily slander others and jump to conclusions that have no basis whatsoever in reality. You have no idea what I have done, achieved and produced both in Naija and the US, and yet you go off on a tangent making very ignorant statements.

When you are ready to grow up and jettison that childish tantrums, I will engage you in a debate. Until then, I don't care if you burst a vein or two trying to out-do yourself with more abuses. You can exhaust all the bandwidth on the www calling me all manner of names and it will not deprive me of a second of sleep tonight. Let me know when you are done with the unprofitable journey you have embarked upon.

@Ibime,

C'mon, you are more educated than that.  I personally do not agree much with your politics, but I still give you kudos for your intelligence.  How can you take out an isolated sentence (not even a paragraph) from an entire document and run with it over the www? What happens to pretext, post-text and context?

This is where I always question the integrity of every Leftist that I discuss with.  They eventually strike one as either willfully ignorant, intellectually dishonest or outright liars.  Anyone who's read the pledge that Bachman signed knows without a doubt that it was nothing but an effort to combat the breakdown of the family structure.  Below is part of the premise of that statement you and others have taken out of context.

LBJ‟s 1965 War on Poverty was triggered in part by the famous “Moynihan Report” finding that the black out-of-wedlock birthrate had hit 26%,” the document reads. “Today, the white rate exceeds that, the overall rate is 41%, and over 70% of African-American babies are born to single parents – a prime sociological indicator for poverty, pathology and prison regardless of race or ethnicity.”

The entire paragraph reads: "Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an African-American baby born after the election of the USA’s first African-American President."  

It takes either a lack of comprehension of the english language, or a deliberate attempt to smear another's character for someone to report the previous statement with the headline "Michelle Bachmann Signs Pledge that Says Black Children Better Off During Slavery".  I don't know who is more guilty of slander, the author of the hit piece or those of you who believe and propagate it.

@cap28,

If you want to have a debate, I will be glad to oblige you.  You know I do not shy away from such.  As for the name calling and character assassination, I will leave you and others to please your ego by engaging in that one way lunacy.  

It appears as if you were retracing your footsteps with your last posting, which I can respond to point for point.  However, you ended up jettisoning that match towards civility by another name-calling.  This is not a forum for juvenile delinquents and I will not be dragged into a "who can abuse the other person better" contest with you or any one for that matter.

@Ibime,

Didn't Michelle (I hate) Blackman recently state in one of her campaign releases that "black children had more chances of growing up in a two-parent household during slavery"?

Do you mind producing this so-called campaign release by Bachman? If you are going to mis-represent someone, why don't you do it with the subtlety I am sure you are capable of? You can do better than that Ibime.

What about the futuristic flying humvee?

https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2010/09/64297e48-283b-4ef5-b5ef-b1bf15ed1389.Full_.jpg

The United States military has moved one step closer toward realizing its goal of developing a flying vehicle that combines aspects of a helicopter, plane and armored truck, awarding a a $3.05 million contract to aerospace and defense company AAI.

This is part of the Transformer Vehicle program  run by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency to demonstrate a "fly-drive" vehicle. DARPA, as it's commonly called, serves as the central research and development organization for the U.S. Department of Defense.

The idea essentially is to produce a mashup: a four-seat vehicle that can hug the road like a sports utility vehicle but is strong and nimble to the point where it can safely navigate past hazards - man made and natural - and then function like an aircraft with vertical take-off capacity. According to Aviation Week, "AAI's design is based on the slowed-rotor/compound (SR/C) helicopter technology being developed jointly with Cartercopter. SR/C is essentially an autogyro in which the rotor can be slowed as forward speed increases, offloading lift to the wing to allow the vehicle to fly faster than a conventional helicopter."

At this point, the TX program is still in proof-of-concept mode. A few years ago, DARPA similarly tried to invite contractors to bring a flying vehicle to market. Can AAI make good on its task? After DARPA first put the project up for bid earlier this spring, Steven Reid, vice president of unmanned aircraft systems at AAI, said in an interview that when his team first heard of the proposal, "I have to admit, we scratched our heads and asked: Is this real?" But after a closer look, he added, the concept meshes with existing engineering ideas about how to combine aspects of manned and unmanned aircraft.
http://wethearmed.com/index.php?topic=11165.0

@armyofone,

i dont like tea party, bunch of red necks. so Tayo you are a tea party member huh?

I am not a registered member and have not attended any of their meetings, yet.  I will say though, that they are closer to my convictions than the DNC or RNC at the moment.

It's unfortunate that you have subscribed to the talking point by calling them a bunch of red necks.  Granted that there may be extremists, but to call all of them red necks is akin to calling all Democrats sex perverts because of Bill Clinton .  If I may ask you, how else do you expect the citizens to react and check their government that no longer represent their values?  Words abound in Washington that the Tea Party members of congress are uncompromising in their stance.  They cannot be bribed, intimidated or pressured by lobbyists.  Heck, many do not even care about re-election as long as they know they are doing the right thing.  Isn't that what we want in our representatives and public officials?

@topic,

So now that we have had the hateful and ignorant responses from aloy-emeka and cap28 (expected I might add), can we get some thoughtful responses from others?

Today, I sent in a completed copy of my Tea Party Presidential Poll along with a nice cheque of course.  I have attached the completed poll for viewing here as well as to ask for your responses to each of the sections of the poll.

I know my choices for first and second places for presidency will probably get the most response.  After all, who inspires liberal rage as much as Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin? Perhaps, that reason more than any other informed my choosing the two  .

My response to the economic issue is borne out of a deep conviction that we do not have a revenue problem but a spending problem.  Only a crazy person will think that the way out of our current problem is to get into more debt  .

As for the political issues, I'm all for getting all liberals out of Washington, whether they be Republicans, Democrats or Independents  . 

Over to you guys.  I welcome all responses; hateful, ignorant or thoughtful alike.

@Pres-elect,

By the way, where is tayoD

I don't know how to react to this.  This is like Babara Walters asking after Sarah Palin.

I hear his state govt has broken down completely? Lol

True to God, the day the govt shut down was one of the happiest day of my life.  You can imagine how bad I felt when it got back up and running. One thing is for sure, the sky will not fall if our politicians take a permanent leave of absence.

Next time I come to America, I may try to visit him.

You keep threatening us about this your upcoming visit to Amerikka.  Are you waiting for your greek columns and red carpet to be ready before you fly in?

I'll really love to meet him face to face

The pleasure will be all mine, seriously.  As JeSoul said, you need to let me know cos I may not be in Minneapolis when you come.  I am considering a number of job offers out of State.  God be blessed (I don't mean Obama  ) , people with my skills and in my industry are highly in demand and I get offers almost fortnightly from across the country.  Heck, I've even got offers from one Britico company.  What will I go do in the UK?

@Mayowaak,

The Norwegian attack simply buttresses the point that no race,religion,political persuation and ideological leanings has monopoly of terror and violence.

That is a wrong conclusion.  The attack butresses the point that to every rule, there is an exception.  The rule as we all know today, is that world-wide acts of terror is perpetuated by Islamists and the exception is what we see in this Norwegian.

In statistical terms, what we have here is not the mean, but a deviation from the mean.

@topic,

What happened to the same kind of initiative sponsored by John Fashanu a while back? I hope this does not go the same way.

@topic,

No doubt the people at our Ports prey on those who pass through them. What I have done over time is to make sure I have some left-over naira with me so I do not have to give them any dollars. Funny that about 4 years ago when I went to Naija, this custom woman asked me to drop some egunje for her. I decided to give her N1,000 which she refused. She told me to convert it to dollars and consider if that money means anything to either me or her. I quickly put the money back in my pocket and moved on.

Anyways, I was in Naija earlier this month and the latest thing they did to me at the Airport was different than I have ever witnessed. I was told I have to pay duties on some of the goods that I brought with me. I came into the country with about 8 bags, 4 of which included gift items that I was planning to give out at my brother's wedding which I came to attend. I was delayed because of these "contrabands" until I parted ways with N5,000.

In any case, I have N20,000 left over which I brought to the US for use on my way back through the Port. May God deliver us from the blood suckers!!!

@Satama,

Civil rights are those that are granted by a government for the protection of its citizens in respect to guaranteeing fairness and checking discrimination.

Point of correction. Rights are not granted by any govt, rather they are God-given and all a govt can do is to protect the God-given rights. If a govt gives you right, that means it can take it away, right?

@topic,

I was in Nigeria for a 2-week break until last Sunday. I had the privilege of listening to Jonathan speak for the very first time on a local news station who requested for comments after the bomb blast at the Police Headquarters. In one minute of the interview, Jonathan came across to me as both insensitive and ill-informed. His comments in the interview went something like this - "First, I must express my sincere condolences to those who lost properties during the bomb blast." He then went on to declare that people who accuse his administration of lacking the backbone to fight this menace must not forget that even terrorists crashed an airplane into the White House.

Does anyone see what is wrong with those statements? First, he was more concerned, and gave priority to those who lost properties rather than the families of those who lost loved ones. Secondly, terrorists did not crash no plane into the WH. They however did same to the WTC and Pentagon. Insensitivity and ignorance smells to high heavens in his statement.

I am not a a supporter nor do I loathe Jonathan, but the first impression he made on my first contact with him is not good!!!!

@topic,

Yes you can come into Niaja with the old passport. I came in about a week ago on vacation with the old one. For N20k, I was able to get the new e-passport in 2 days.

One funny thing though, the immigration folks at the Airport did not even endorse that old passport claiming its no longer recognized. So while Jonathan may have extended the deadline for changing to the new e-passport, it will be wise to get it as soon as possible. I waited to come to Niaja to change it instead of going to Atlanta for economic and convenience reason. I would have had to pay about $1200 for flights to Atlanta in addition to the inconvenience and the cost of the passport if I were to do it in Atlanta. Compare that to just N80k that I paid in Naija for my entire family.

@Enigma,

Of course you are free to disagree and we can agree to disagree agreeably.

Agreed!

1. I do not rain curses on people or threaten them with "hell".

Not in so many words, I'd say!

2. I do not call people anti-Christs simply because they preach "tithing"; even now I still occasionally attend churches where they preach "tithing" especially when I'm in Nigeria.

The Bible clearly states who is an antiChrist. Your use of that term is not rooted in the scriptures. That is my point.

Actually, Abel's sacrifice (or, if you like, its type) was adopted into the law. On the other hand, if you say that like tithing it "circumscribes" the law, why then is it not applicale today ---- but "tithing" is?

There is no indication that Abel's sacrifice was adopted by the law. If anything at all, it was Cain's type that was adopted by the law, i.e. blood sacrifice. These have their origins in the garden of Eden.

Anyway, you missed my point totally. Mercy, kindness, obedience, faith were adopted by the law even though they predate the law. Are they also done with because they were adopted by the law?

Read for example Hebrews 7 which actually addresses "tithing". Read also various passages on the doing away of the law and the ushering of the era of grace under the New Testament.

If anything at all, Hebrews 7 is a clear testament that the tithe transcends the law. Have you read verse 8 of that chapter? It clearly indicates that Jesus receives the tithe even though he is testified to live forever. I can't prove it nor do I make it a doctrine, but I strongly believe we will still pay tithe when we take up our roles and responsibilities in the ages to come. Tithe is an eternal thing in so far that it transcends the physical. Hebrews 7:8 testifies as much.

This is the thing: I don't call a "brother" an anti-Christ; I call those who seek to circumvent the teachings of Christ and His gospel anti-Christs. I don't even call some "tithe" preachers anti-Christs.

You may call whomever you like antichrist. That's your prerogative. As far as the scripture is concerned, only those who deny the Father and the Son qualifies as such. Your reluctance to accept this truth and submit to the Lordship of the Word makes me wary of you, even though you are a brother!

If you know Jesse Duplantis' teachings as well as I do and weigh them against scriptures, you will realise why he is a danger to Christ's gospel!

I dare say he has led more people to Christ and testified of the living Christ to more nations than you will ever achieve in your lifetime. Keep knocking down your own while posturing as a defender of the faith.

The same Jesus who had nowhere to lay His head? The same Jesus who had no money to pay due tax? The same Jesus who preached heavily against focus on material riches"? Pleeeeeease!

That he had no where to lay his head does not mean he could not afford one. This is the person that was responsible not just for himself but for the upkeep of at least 12 Disciples and their families. Jesus went into Peter's house to heal his mother in law, remember? Are you for real about the tax? He had the means to pay for it. Whether it was through the treasure bag or through the fish that swallowed a lost coin. Prosperity is being able to pay your bills when it is due. He paid His. That you should not trust in material riches doesn't mean you should not have it. If prosperity is bad, people like abraham, Job, David, Solomon sure aren't worth emulating.

No, it is the doctrine of the sovereignty of God who can and does do as He wills. We pray to be in His will and to be able to accept it --- even if His answer is "My grace is sufficient for thee".

Stop deceiving yourself. If you believe in God's sovereignty, you will believe in the sovereignty of His Word. His sovereignty works within the confines of His Word. Show me where God sovereignty has ever contradicted His Word and I will forever hold my peace. Why would anyone ever trust His Word if it can be violated by an act of His sovereignty?

@frosbel,

"At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands." - Deut 14:28-29

I see a principle here if anything at all. The tithe is meant for those who minister God's word and do so on a full time basis. This is consistent with the NT where Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9: 13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. The tithe is obviously the way to pay for the daily living of those who are full-time ministers of the Word. These scriptures are clearly complimentary.

@Enigma,

The point is simple: "tithing" is NOT a Christian obligation and should not be so taught as is widely done today, sometimes with curses and even threats of "hell".

I disagree with you that it is not a relevant truth today.  Come to think of it, you are no different than those who rain curses and threaten people with hell when they don't pay their tithe.  You are only on the flip side of the same coin by calling those who preach and practice it anti-Christs.

I think you will find it helpful to study it; you will even find that Abel's sacrifice even predates Abram's "tithing"! So why is it not done today?

The sacrifice of Abel was not adopted by the law just as justice, mercy, faith, tithing and a host of other virtues.  These all predate and circumscribe the law even though they were adopted by it.

In just the same way that "tithing" has been properly addressed in the New Testament. Neither of them is an obligation for a Christian!

Pray tell, where in the NT has the issue of tithing been addressed with a view of eliminating it?  If anything at all, evidence exists to support its practice.

You will first have to show me where I've been found wanting. If you do, I will hold my hands up that I was a false teacher on that point

Calling a fellow-brother an anti-Christ is enough for you to fall down on your knees and ask God for forgiveness.  You are not rightfully discerning the body, which is why Paul said the Corinthian Christians were weak, sick and in some cases dying.  The main reason why I took a hiatus from this forum is because I felt I was as guilty as many in not properly discerning the body.  For the sake of winning an argument, we are ready to abuse our brothers, call them names and surly their character.  It appears things have not changed that much and I am this close to taking another exit.

I think you need to read the New Testament again. We are told that there are many anti-Christs in the world today. You see, your error on this makes you prone to being misled by them!

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Antichrists are those who deny the Father and the Son.  Please tell me, how does Jesse Duplantis qualify as an antiChrist?  I know you believe in sovereignty, but it does not apply with the interpretation of scripture.

Because He associated with "sinners" and drank alcohol, Jesus was a "prosperity preacher"? Come on, my brother!

Please take the advise you freely gave to me and read that NT again.  The main reason why he was accused and slandered was because he was eating and drinking and living a prosperous life contrary to John the Baptist's way.  You just see what you want to see in every scripture.

I teach people about the sovereignty of God - Ọba a ṣe eyi ti o wu'un!

The doctrine of "que cera"!  Now we know where you stand.  What is the point of praying, asking, believing, faith if what will be will be? Why preach the Gospel?  God will save whoever he wants, right? Why preach healing?  God will heal whoever He wants, right?

@Enigma,

What kind of tithing predates the law - voluntary or compulsory tithing? Meanwhile Abel's sacrifice predates the law --- so why is that not applicable today? What of circumcision?

What is your point? That tithing should be voluntary, compulsory or eliminated. Make it clear. I don't know anything about the sacrifice of Abel, nor that of Cain. Do you have more info about them? As to circumcision, that is properly addressed in the NT. You disagree?

Yes, I do -- it's called tried and found wanting. Meanwhile it's no big deal to be called "a mouthpiece of the enemy" --- it is what we get all the time when we take on the doctrines of anti-Christs like Jesse Duplantis, so no biggie

Doctrinally too, you've been found wanting. Does that make you you also a liar and a false teacher? There is only one anti-christ, so I do not know where you get the many anti-christs from. You know, some people also found Jesus wanting when they declared that he was too flamboyant, drinking wine and eating luxuriously. He was too prosperous minded and lived such a life that he irritated them.

Yeah right, if God responds to faith "all the time" people won't need to keep running back to the prosperity gospel pimps; they won't need to attend the same recycled "programmes" under various headings: "open heavens", "divine visitation", "favour conference" etc etc etc

You have the liberty to teach people that faith does not assure them of anything from God. As for me and my house we will follow Jesus' doctrine that even a little faith will go so far to do much.

@Enigma,

Shades of old battles --- but I won't go on at length, just a couple of observations

Absolutely.  And it continues still today.

1. Tithing was not established before the law. One person did it voluntarily that we know of for sure. Another said he would do it on condition that he was first blessed and we don't even know if he did do it. Before the law no one, absolutely no one in the Bible was instructed or even advised to tithe.

Tithing predates the law.  This cannot be argued away.  If you will argue against tithing, please don't bring the law into it because it circumscribes it.  That is my point.

2. Please not Jesse Duplantis --- an inveterate liar and false teacher.

You know this for sure or you are just a mouthpiece of the enemy?

3. God does respond to need; example being the crippled guy at the beauty gate healed by Peter --- what was his "faith" when all he wanted was money? Realy, it is mostly word of faith doctrine that suggests this idea that it is all about "faith" rather than the sovereignty of God Himself.

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I mentioned the only time this happens is when the gifts of the Spirit are in operation.  The gifts are operated according to God's will.  It does not require faith on the part of the recipient.  God respond to faith all the time like the woman with the issue of blood.

@frosbel,

I commend your heart, service and dedication to your Lord. It shines throughout your write up. It is such an inspiration.

I know I will not be doing justice in attempting a reply to everything you have written above, so I will just make a few points as time permits me.

I believe strongly in giving to the poor, just as I believe strongly in giving to those who feed me spiritually. Both are commanded in the NT. One should not be done at the expense of the other. As to giving to the poor, the NT is also clear that priority should go first to those of the Household of Faith.

I learnt long ago from from my Pastor and Jesse Duplantis, that giving should be in obedience to God and not so much as need. I'll explain. Whatsoever we do must be borne out of faith which is a response to God's Word. Jesse Duplantis told the story of how God instructed him to pay off the mortgage of an apparently wealthy man. He got some flack from doing same from people who felt he had spent his money wrongly. His response? I gave that money to him in obedience to God's instruction. Do you remember that Elijah went into a the house of a gentile widow and met her needs even though there were millions in Isreal who needed same provision? God moves in response to faith and not to needs. That explains why some people are healed of their disease while others are not. All have healing needs, but only those with faith get healing except during the operation of the gifts of the Spirit which the Lord administers as He alone wills.

As for the tithe, I must confess that there isn't a strong backing for it in the NT in as much as there is no instruction against it. I notice you keep lumping tithes together as a ritual under the law. That is not true. Tithing predates the law. It was established before the law came, and I have no reason to believe it was abolished with the law. Tithing was brought into the law and not the other way round. I know this is a very contentious issue, but I will admonish you to believe the best of your brothers and not assume many do it because they want to steal from their flock. It is what they believe needs to be done.

Stay blessed brother.

@MrBible,

I commend you to God and to the Word of His Grace.

Mr Bible,

You really need to settle down and understand the Bible you are zealous to defend. My little interaction with you so far suggests one who though has zeal, lacks knowledge.