₦airaland Forum

cornelboy:
You really need a home study with the JWs.

The old covenant and it laws was for only Israel and those that abide by it will be/are saved.

So you believe that they would be saved by the old covenant then why did Christ have to suffer and die if the blood of sheep was enough to save? Again, that would also mean that the children of Israel do not need Christ as long as they keep the old covenants? If Isreal could be saved without Christ why not the rest of the world?

cornelboy:
John 10:34-36 NLT
[34]Jesus replied, “It is written in your own Scriptures that God said to certain leaders of the people, ‘I say, you are gods!’
[35]And you know that the Scriptures cannot be altered. So if those people who received God’s message were called ‘gods,’
[36]why do you call it blasphemy when I say, ‘I am the Son of God’? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world.

Lol shebi I de use falsehood abi

Your among those people called gods right?

Where in the chapter 82 of Psalm indicates that God called every human gods?

Psalms 82:6-7
[6]I say, ‘You are gods;
    you are all children of the Most High.
[7]But you will die like mere mortals
    and fall like every other ruler.’”

The people God was calling gods are probably the rulers in Israel.

I know you would bring that verse. I don already pass am. E no hard like that na.

Will you like to study with the JWs

I don't understand your point. You don't know who the bible called Gods? Why do you think the verse was talking about the rulers of Isreal? So you agree that the rulers of Isreal are Gods and Children of God? Please explain why you think only the rulers of Isreal are Gods and Children of the most high.
Please explain how you came about the conclusion that only rulers of Isreal are gods.

cornelboy:
I'm not fighting for nothing but the truth.

Tell me where the Bible says we are gods, can you?

I hope you have read my answer to your question in my last post.
Now my question for you. Would all the Children of Isreal who obeyed and followed the old testament prophets be saved?
I want your honest reply and if you don't know you can say so.

cornelboy:
I'm not fighting for nothing but the truth.

Tell me where the Bible says we are gods, can you?

Psalm 82:6
I have said, "You are gods; you are all children of The Highest.
I quoted from the old testament to show that even before the coming of Christ, men were Sons of God, and men were called Gods.
And don't claim to fight for the truth if you are ready to use falsehood against other organizations.

Read my post again. And tell me the lie I spread.
If I was wrong, I'll apologize cos I never intended to spread lies about them. I have discussed with a lot of LDS members.

Did I say they were gods before their earthly life?
I think your the one lying here. Pls try to read and comprehend well before responding. You are not the only one with LDS friends and you can also read to understand their position before typing. The LDs Believe that man has the potential to be like God not that man is or was already a God. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/the-eternal-family-teacher-manual/lesson-3-our-divine-potential?lang=eng

Please stop fighting other organizations. Just make your point and leave others from this. That's my advice to you, sir.

Don't you believe in universal salvation? I don't. Please explain what you mean by this.
Don't you believe that you'll later become gods after death? I believe the bible already says we are Gods so I believe this
Don't you believe in preexistence? I do. and all my beliefs are scriptural.
So why are you interested in my beliefs.

[quote author=cornelboy post=112684883]Lol. But your church teaches you that you will become gods in heaven. Wicked people won't perish but will be in prison for some times before they are transferred to heaven. Another type of heaven different from yours, the saved. Universal salvation.
So I just confirmed.. Mormons don't believe we were Gods before our earthy lives. Why are you using your platform to spread lies about other organizations. I think you are going a dark path. I understand you feel the need to fight and hate others but it does not make it right. Do not spread lies about others.
I have come hard against those who fight JW because I don't think it's right. There is no need for a religious war. We can continue to discuss doctrine but let's not trail and start fighting other people

Lol. But your church teaches you that you will become gods in heaven. Wicked people won't perish but will be in prison for some times before they are transferred to heaven. Another type of heaven different from yours, the saved. Universal salvation.
Are you trying to crack some jokes here? Honestly, what are you saying?

You people believe that we preexisted as spirit which is very incoherent. Like was Adam our first parent pre-existing somewhere before God made him from clay? Every Christain knows that our spirits came from heaven so what is your point.

You might denied that your not a Mormon, member of LDS but I know you're. I can't tell what you are up to here but it is not making any sense. I already told you that I was JW. Maybe I would open a thread and declare that I am a JW member just to make you happy.

And what do all these have to do with the beautiful thread you created? Don't distract yourself and others. For once you are on the right side. No need to make the thread about me and no need to attack other religions. If I would advise you, learn to preach your religion and don't try to get into others' lives. Let your message be more important than pettiness. My aim has never been to bring down any church. I only discuss doctrines and I show respect to all organizations. You could learn from that.

cornelboy:
"In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. At the end he will destroy everything because Satan interrupted his plans."

False religion has really done a lot of harm to misinformed churchgoers reasoning.


God will restore the earth through his son Amen!

Yes, he would restore the earth. it's clearly written in the bible.
Revelations 21
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
When you are correct, I will be the first to congratulate you.

cornelboy:
Hey, Isaiah didn't believe in Jesus Christ. He only believed the prophecy that someone is coming to be the Christ. He never knew Jesus.
Thanks.

Let me ask you another question, can salvation come without Christ? How would them of Old receive Salvation? Does salvation come from the blood of sheep?
The sins of them of old were not forgiven by the sheep they kill but by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Please read
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

cornelboy:
Hey, Isaiah didn't believe in Jesus Christ. He only believed the prophecy that someone is coming to be the Christ. He never knew Jesus.
Thanks.

Another verse for you to pray about.
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand until I make Thine enemies thy footstool.
David accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord. Do you understand what this means?
It means Jesus Christ was his master. It means he was under the control and leadership of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ had a relationship with these men even before he came to earth.
What more would these men do to convince you and me that Jesus Christ is their Lord?

cornelboy:
What about the rest of the Jews that didn't believe when he actually came?
What bout the present Jews that are still expecting the Christ today? Are they saved and recieving the forgiveness of sin through his blood?

I asked you, do you know the meaning of testimony? Every single prophet testified about Christ. If you testify about what you don't know, you are simply a false witness. We both don't think the prophets are false witnesses right?

cornelboy:
Hey, Isaiah didn't believe in Jesus Christ. He only believed the prophecy that someone is coming to be the Christ. He never knew Jesus.
Thanks.

My brother, you shouldn't be struggling with this na. Let me ask you, do you believe the prophecies in the Book of Revelations? Many of these prophecies are yet to happen yet you believe and you are blessed for that. So how is this any different? Do you believe Jesus would come again?
now let this verse ring in your mind all the time. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Seeing is not always believing. Faith comes before sight.
The old testament people hoped for the coming of Jesus just like you look forward to his second coming. How is your faith any better than theirs?
Another memory verse for you.
Revelation 19.10 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Did the prophets of old have the spirit of prophecy? if yes then they had the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Now, remember we are saved by our testimony.
Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Now seen these men had the testimony of Christ what more is needed, my brother? Biko answer me.
So when Isaiah says, "18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. It was not Going to happen through the blood of goat but through the blood of Christ.

cornelboy:
Hey, Isaiah didn't believe in Jesus Christ. He only believed the prophecy that someone is coming to be the Christ. He never knew Jesus.
Thanks.

Listen to yourself. You are simply saying that Isaiah did not believe in Christ but he believed in God's revelation about Christ. You seem confused here. Seem you agree that God revealed Christ (prophecy) why are you finding it hard to understand that it impossible for him to believe the revelations of God about Christ and doubt Christ.

cornelboy:
What about the rest of the Jews that didn't believe when he actually came?
What bout the present Jews that are still expecting the Christ today? Are they saved and recieving the forgiveness of sin through his blood?

It's the same thing today, what about those who don't believe. There would always be some who believe and some who don't. Do you know how many years it took Christianity to become mainstream? Is it everyone you talk to that ends up believing? Why do you think the Jews would be any better?
Do you remember John teaching saying, "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, ?" He was referring to the Jews. the Jews have always been his people. His relationship with them did not begin with his birth. The only difference was that with his coming, they could deal directly with him and not through a prophet.

cornelboy:
Weren't the Pharisees, Sadducees and the Jews also waiting for the Christ? Did their waiting or the prophecies they knew about him have any effect without believing in Christ Jesus?

But you should know they were evil nah. i don't need to teach you that.
Read this to understand why they did not believe him.
3 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
They were evil and had chosen to follow the devil unlike Simon and the wise men and John the baptist and the many others that choose to believe him.

The only reason why the Pharisees did not believe Christ was because of their wickedness.

cornelboy:
They didn't receive the promise. That's enough explanation.

Yes they waited for it

cornelboy:
So how many people were led to Christ aside Isaiah and David

Not a meaningful question. How many people are led to God since Christ came? Do you have the records of how many people are led to God since this year? Please what point are you making here

cornelboy:
Not the sin of the world. Only the sins of those that believe in him.

You make John a liar. John 1:29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Please stick to the word of God

cornelboy:
"
All the prophets testified through prophecy. They were expecting the Messiah but Christ didn't come during their time. They don't know God was going to send. They believed Jehovah that he would send the Christ.

The person eventually came, Jesus Christ.

People started recieving forgiveness of sin after his sacrificial death.

The prophets killed animal for their forgiveness of sin.

Don't you see how controversial you are becoming? You keep saying that God gave them the prophecy of Christ and at the same time they did not know Christ.
The two can't be true. If God revealed Christ to them via prophecy then clearly they knew Christ. The prophecy were not in vain. The purpose of the prophecy is to reveal Christ.
And you are yet to answer my question, what do you know about Christ that they did not know

cornelboy:
They certainly don't know of him. They heard that some Messiah is coming and they don't even know who the Messiah is going to be.

Read Hebrew 11.13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

These men did not have Christ in their time but they saw the promises of Christ from afar and were persuaded of them, and embraced them.

[quote author=cornelboy post=112655077]"
All the prophets testified through prophecy. They were expecting the Messiah but Christ didn't come during their time. don't know God was going to send. They believed Jehovah that he would send the Christ.
But they knew. They knew Immanuel would be sent. Please read the bible.

People started recieving forgiveness of sin after his sacrificial death.
Wrong again. All sins are forgiven through.

The prophets killed animal for their forgiveness of sin. Yes they did because they were expecting Jesus Christ, The bible says they testified that Jesus would take away the sins of the world.

cornelboy:
The wise men saw his Star when he was born and they traced it. They might have heard of the prophecy but it doesn't prove anything here.

They were led to Jesus by the prophecy, Just like you are led to Him by the new testament no difference

They certainly don't know of him. What does it mean to know Christ?
They heard that some Messiah is coming and they don't even know who the Messiah is going to be.
When you say they heard about some Messiah, it makes it sound like they heard from a rumor. Why don't you put it like this, God revealed the Messiah to them?
I asked you to mention anything you know about Jesus that they of old did not know.
1. They knew he was the Son of God
2. They accepted him as their Lord
3. They knew his name is Immanuel. Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. The Hebrew equivalent of the word Christ is Messiah.
4. They knew he would take away their sins. Acts 10:43 "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.
5. They knew he would be the lawgiver and that the laws of Moses were temporal.
6. They looked forward to his coming.
7. They had faith in him.

Janosky:
Your statement I quoted is not rocket science.


Isaiah said:
"He will be called.... "mighty God" .
Isaiah references a future time.
Isaiah did not say he (Jesus) Most High God, Yahweh.

"He will be called... Everlasting Father ".
Isaiah references a future time.
Isaiah did not say he (Jesus) is his Father , Yahweh the Creator, Isaiah 44:24 &1 Cor 8:6.

Please note the difference.
Matthew 12:15-20, Jesus Christ references Isaiah's prophecy to REMOVE every Trinitarian attempt to make him Almighty God."

Please, I was not trying to blow you off. I was only letting you know that you were not understanding our topic. In the topic, we were discussing who Christ was to the people in the old testament. It was not about the trinity. We wanted to know if they of old knew about Christ. And what he meant to them according to the scriptures.

They didn't drink from Christ bobo. They drank from rock. Christ was compared to the rock. You can believe whatever you want to believe about that. When you get to heaven, make the argument with Paul for saying Christ is the rock. I would enjoy listening to you argue with Paul.

cornelboy:
A prophecy is a revelation if what would happen in the future.

For example the Jews existing during Jesus life on earth didn't know about Jesus before he came.
Some started believing when they saw the sign. Isaiah believe God would send the Messiah but he never knew the Messiah himself.

If you are not yet convinced then you need to read this.
Acts 10:43 "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.
You see, they believed the very same thing that you believe.
Note the verse says the Prophets testified about him. Do you know what a testimony is? You cant bear testimony of what you don't know unless you are a false witness.

cornelboy:
Comot jàre. We were talking about David and Isaiah. They didn't know Christ. They only heard of him through prophecy.

Nobody knew Christ before he came to the world.
We were able to know Christ today because he has come and his accounts were written in the four gospel books. David and Isaiah didn't know Christ like I do today.

The wise men located Christ because of the words of the Prophets.
Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, [a]wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.

5 So they said to him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for thus it is written by the prophet:

A prophecy is a revelation if what would happen in the future. what was the purpose of the prophecy? It was to lead men unto Christ. It was not done for fun. God revealed His word to them because he wanted them to act upon it. What action were they supposed to take? The very same you and I are expected to take. They were expected to believe; simple

Even when he finally showed up. Few of the Jews believed in him. Like the Pharisees, they believed in the prophecy about him.
When he finally came and their expectations were different from what they saw, they didn't eventually believe him or they denied him.
You must also know that at the time he showed up, Isreal was in a sinful state or apostate state. Their religious leaders (The Pharisees) were very evil. So why are you surprised they did not accept him. What did you expect?

Don't also forget, these men were just like you, They had not seen Christ just like you. They only had the scriptures but they believed in his mission just like you do. Please mention any particular thing you have that they did not?

Even when he finally showed up. Few of the Jews believed in him. Like the Pharisees, they believed in the prophecy about him.
When he finally came and their expectations were different from what they saw, they didn't eventually believe him or they denied him. And who is to blame? Today, does everyone believe him? There was never a time everyone believed. But that does not stop God from revealing him.

They didn't drink from Christ bobo. They drank from rock. Christ was compared to the rock. You can believe whatever you want to believe about that. The bible says that rock was Christ. 4. And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

People began to know Christ when he was on earth. The wise men and Simon prove your theory is false. David and daniel prove your theory is false. Abraham proves your theory is false.

A prophecy is a revelation if what would happen in the future. Yes it is and those that have faith in a prophecy are blessed. Faith is hope for things that are not yet come. Did these men have faith in Christ? Yes. The same way you have faith that Christ would come again because of the prophecies, that is how they had faith in his first coming.

For example the Jews existing during Jesus life on earth didn't know about Jesus before he came. Just as the world in the time of Noah didnt know of the flood but those who knew where saved.
Some started believing when they saw the sign. Isaiah believe God would send the Messiah but he never knew the Messiah himself. some believed even before he was born