₦airaland Forum

Pearl1910:
Your reasoning is flawed.
It's like God suspending existence because there is no cure for cancer yet. So why send people to d world to come and get the disease and die when he knows there is no cure yet.
The earth will continue to evolve, it's still d people of the earth that will bring innovation and solution to the problems of mankind. In so doing his Will will be done eventually.
How many times a sould comes back is up to God and bare in mind, the individual isn't aware he has been here before because he has no memory, knowledge or experience of his past life.

No, your reasoning is flawed.

It is much more easier and efficient to give man the cure to cancer than to keep reincarnating a cancer victim until a cure is invented. In fact, that would be stupid.
But that is exactly what you are proposing. You keep reincarnating one who lacks the truth until the truth becomes available. That is completely stupid. Only a reckless god will do such.
Again, if the experience from a past life doesn't guide an individual in his present life, it is a wasted and unnecessary life. Your reincarnation system is a very disorganized and inefficient system. It is purposeless and completely unnecessary.

Dtruthspeaker:
You are always seeing things in a twisted way, if there was nothing to be saved from them you won't be advised that you should not smoke or drink.

Let me ask you again, can you ancestors be saved without the gospel of Jesus Christ?
If your answer is yes, then what is the purpose of the gospel of Jesus Christ

Dtruthspeaker:
No where did I imply that. That is all you putting meanings and interpretations based on what you want to see.

And I have already explained that even though we know that is not good to smoke/drink we are still told and reminded everyday about it. So it is not out of place.

You keep contradicting yourself. If you knew the word of God, and could be saved then what is the point of a Savior?

Dtruthspeaker:
Yes, if you had asked me this then I would have told you that, yes, they heard the Word of God even if they did not hear it the way it is contained in the bible

quote author=tctrills post=135974665]
Do you understand your own speech? So, to you, there was no need for the white man to bring Christianity to Africa since your ancestors already heard and know the Word of God

No where did I say that there is no need for lo, even if we know that is not good to smoke/drink we are still told and reminded.

You implied that. Now let's look into your reasoning. If your ancestors heard the Word of God, even if they did not hear it the way it is contained in the bible, as you say, then what was the need of the bible? Again, if they could be saved without the knowledge of Jesus Christ, then there is no need for Christ.
To make it very easy for you, let me ask, why did Christ need to come if men, for example, your ancestors, could be saved without him?

Pearl1910:
And I am saying to you, it was technically impossible to do this just 100 years ago, talk less of when there were no TVs and Telephones at all. So all the people that lived and died in far East Asia, north America and south america, Australia and New Zealand etc were unreachable by the gospel that started in the Middle East and only spread to Europe and the tip of Africa.

So let me ask you, how many opportunities of reincarnation does a man get? And if this is a technology problem, there was no reason to send these people into the world in the first place. The creator should have waited for the era of TV and the internet. So people don't keep wasting their lifetime and opportunity. Just sending them to Earth at the right time solves all those problems.

Dtruthspeaker:
Why do you see things in a twisted way na? Where in my statement did I say that they do not need gospel? Was your question not about "the Fate Of Our Ancestors Who Did Not Hear The Word Of God?"

Which I answered in agreement with Advancedna who informed you that Romans answered it.

So, you are moving the post to another position.

And your question seems to flow from the fact that you think that I said they do not need the gospel when I did not even say so

It's clear from your answer that you feel that our ancestors had the word of God even without having the gospel of Jesus Christ, and you feel it was sufficient for them.
Below was your comment.
No matter who they are or where they come from, God judges them on what they do, not just on what they say or what group they belong to. So, if you know what's right but you don't do it, that's not good.".

That clearly means that they have heard and know the Word of God.

Your very last statement says it all. Our ancestors, who did not have the opportunity to listen to the gospel of Jesus Christ, heard and knew the Word of God.
Do you understand your own speech? So, to you, there was no need for the white man to bring Christianity to Africa since your ancestors already heard and know the Word of God

[quote author=AntiChristian post=135973571]But surely he didn't preach to everyone he met after 30yrs! Even the criminal crucified with him he didn't preach to them! If he did preach to them the writers may have written about it. The ones he preached to and healed were written down as i said earlier in Matthew!
That's why it's not wise to assume who he preached to and who he did not preach to. Again his ministry continued after his resurrection. So even those that he didn't preach to, his followers preached to them. Remember he sent his followers tout to preach.

Despite having four Gospels written in different times each by different persons independently you still claim Jesus's works can not be written! Why reject many books if that is true?
I don't understand your question here please explain better. It was not my claim, it was his Apostle that told us that all his works are not recorded. Please throw more light to your question.



[size=12pt]Why didn't he preach the Gospel to them when he had the chance?

The rich ruler!
The canaanite woman!
The Criminals on the cross!
Again, you assume. Also, everyone has his time and season to hear the gospel. Now let's look at the 3 examples you highlighted. Clearly from their conversation with him, we know that each one of them knew him and we're familiar with his message (gospel)
Let's use the rich ruler for example
He came to Jesus Christ to ask how to find Eternal life. You wouldn't go to someone you know nothing about to inquire about eternal life would you. He was clearly familiar with the gospel of Jesus Christ. So please stop assuming rather seek knowledge not guesswork.

Your only hope is that Jesus told the disciples to preach the gospel to all the nations!
But your forgot the other verses below:
[b]These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.…Matthew 10:5-6[/b]
You are right, his first command to his disciples was not to preach to the gentiles but his final instruction was that they preach to all nations. So imagine you instruct your kid not to give food to a particular neighbor then at a later time you tell that kid that he should send food to that neighbor, what would an obedient child do? Would he go with your latest command or insist on following your formal command?
Paul explained this in Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Note, the Jews first.

AntiChristian:
I know he didn't preach the Gospel to her as written in your Bible.

It is clearly written when Jesus preached for example Matthew 4:23 - Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

Commanding his disciples to do what he didn't do does not make any sense!

Jesus already told the canaanite woman he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.
He never mentioned that he was temporarily sent to Israel but Israel is his world!

Again, you do not know. You only guess. The bible never listed everyone Jesus Christ preached to. In fact it is clearly stated that most of Jesus Christ works are not recorded in the bible.
Please read and understand the verse below.
john 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Does this clear your doubt now?
Again, as I taught you last time, do not read Jesus Christ words to the Canaanite woman in a vacuum. Compare it to other things He taught. For example, he commanded his Apostles to preach the Gospel to all nations.
He also said that no man can get to the Father except by him. So clearly, His atonement and ministry covers all men.

MaxInDHouse:
No JW ever condemn another that impostor registered a new account just to make gullible people like you feel JWs are attacking one another because i exposed false religions as you people can't agree on doctrine.

You can ask him to tell you one single thing i teach here that's not according to JW standard!

As for our own God you and all your folks know us to be Jehovah's Witnesses it's you and your cohorts that's ashamed to mention the name of your churches because you can't speak for your leaders!

Your friend doesn't know that JWs are special people he thought he could use a new account to cause confusion.

Here is the date he registered the account in fact his first comment was so offensive that Nairaland mod had to ban him!

He called you an imposter and now you call him an imposter. A house that fights against itself can never stand.
We can't take any of you serious because you have proven that you are a divided house.
All my years on Nairaland, I have never seen Catholics behave so stupidly neither have I seen deeper life members act like that. Only JW members fight each other online.

AntiChristian:
Reread what I asked again and calmly!

Jesus didn't preach to everyone he healed!

So not everyone that he met heard his gospel.

So the gospel is not important for everyone but selected few.

Can you show me where Jesus preached the gospel to the Canaanite woman?

I already answered you. You don't know as a matter of fact that Jesus Christ didn't preach to anyone he healed you are only assuming. So why would you base your opinion on that?
You and I have no record to show if he preached to the Canaanite or not so why argue about what we do not know.
But then, we can talk about what we know. We both know that he commanded his disciples to preach his gospel to all nations. We also know that he taught that no man can get to His Father without Him.
Is it all coming together now?

AntiChristian:
So why didn't Jesus preached the gospel to most of those he healed? Did Jesus preach the gospel to his adopted father?

And since the gospel didn't reach those before Jesus that means your ideology is lacking!

There's nothing like reincarnation as no one comes back after death!

So, you don't have any record to show that Jesus Christ did not preach to those he healed. On the contrary we have evidence of those he healed becoming his followers
Do you remember Mary Magdalene? She was one of the people he healed. Please show where it is stated that He never preached to those he healed or are you just assuming?

Dtruthspeaker:
Your question was "what Is The Fate Of Our Ancestors Who Did Not Hear The Word Of God?"

But you confirm that they know in saying

"no matter who they are or where they come from, that God judges them on what they do, not just on what they say or what group they belong to. So, if you know what's right but you don't do it, that's not good.".

That clearly means that they have heard and know the Word of God.

I am sure that you see how your answer complicates things. Firstz you are saying that they don't need the gospel of Jesus Christ to know the right way to follow. Then let me ask, what is the purpose of the gospel if those that have not heard it still know the word of God?

Also what was the purpose of Jesus Christ sacrifice if without it some people could still be saved?
Remember Paul said
Romans 1:16-
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

But you seem to be saying that these people who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ somehow they still have the power of salvation? Then I ask what's the need of the gospel if people can be saved without it?

MaxInDHouse:
I can't be open minded than i am doing right now!
I asked you to mention the name of your church you refused ok present the group that is practicing what your I AM teaches so i can learn from them you got provoked, i asked you to list the works of your I AM at least let me see the things that shows there is a living God bearing I AM you insulted me yet you said i should open my mind.
How?
So it's until i say
"i agree your Jesus is God" that's when you will know i've been open minded shey?
Your friend tctrill who said he agreed came to argue with you in the first place:



But shied away when i told both of you that true believers should have the same line of thought {John 17:22; 1Corinthans 1:10; Ephesians 4:3} isn't that the reason you started calling me names?
Ọmọ nobody stops you from worshiping your I AM so go and worship your I AM in peace!

No, I reminded you of your world war with your fellow believer. That was the first and only time I witnessed 2 members of the same group fight an online war. Catholics are ome, Redeemers are one but JW fight online. Keep worshiping your I was.

Pearl1910:
Imagine a world without TV and Telephone.
It is impossible to reach the whole world.
Therefore, to give everyone a chance hence the reincarnation until everyone comes to the knowledge of the truth. According to the scriptures He will not return until everyone has heard the gospel.

I am only saying that it is far more efficient to give everyone a chance to hear the truth in one lifetime than to repeat the process again and again until you get it right

AntiChristian:
So na Gospel go save everybody?

How many people did Jesus not preached the Gospel to during his life time?

The Canaanite woman!
The blind man!
Even Lazarus and the "Thalita Lum" girl!
Lepers!
Demon possesor!
The lame man!
The woman that touched Jesus's garment!

The purpose of the gospel is to bring salvation to all men.
Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved

Dtruthspeaker:
This clearly means that the question has been answered

ok, please explain for those of us who did not understand the answer.

Gabrielshow24:
strongly believed? By whom? 👀 You?
Reincarnation is flawed as it doesn't pass some certain criteria! As regards those before the Lord's work, God will judge the sum total of their works but there's no assurance they will make it without the Lord showing Mercy ! Hence their salvation is on a knife-edge as it is only the Lord's prerogative that can save them 😁.

So, in short, you are saying that you don't have any answer to the above question. You don't know the fate of those who died without hearing the gospel.

advanceDNA:
U read Romans-10 talking about a different context of the responsibility of preaching the gospel to unbelievers ....but u left Romans-2 that addresses your question (or should I call it doubt ).....okay oooo

Could you please explain better.
I just read Romans 2, and it does not address the topic in any way. In fact, below is a summary of Romans 2. Please let me know if I omitted anything.

Well, the book of Romans, chapter 2, is basically saying that God is the ultimate fair judge. It's telling everyone, no matter who they are or where they come from, that God judges them on what they do, not just on what they say or what group they belong to. So, if you know what's right but you don't do it, that's not good. And if you don't even know the rules but you still do bad things, that's not good either.

Romans 2:14-15
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

God is super patient and kind, hoping people will change their ways. But if someone just keeps being stubborn and doing wrong, they're heading for trouble when God eventually judges everyone. The chapter explains that God gives eternal life to those who live good lives, trying to do what's right and seek Him. But for those who are disobedient and do bad things, they'll face His anger.

It also talks about how the Jews had a special rulebook (the Law), but others didn't. The important thing is that even if you don't have a written rulebook, your conscience often tells you what's right and wrong. So, everyone is accountable. The big takeaway is that God cares more about what's in your heart and how you act than about any outward traditions or labels.

Pearl1910:
Whatever happened to the people that lived before Jesus Christ came.
That is why reincarnation is strongly believed to be true. Because God will not be unjust to judge men for a law that never even existed or to use different scales to judge humans.

You have a strong point. But then, what was the purpose of sending them into the world only to keep sending them again and again. Wouldn't it be more efficient to give them the opportunity of hearing the gospel in their first life so there is no need to keep repeating the process?
Again there is a possibility of even worse outcomes each time a person is reborn.

For no fault of theirs, our ancestors did not hear about Christ or Christianity would they be punished for that or would they be given a second chance?

It is written
Timothy 2.3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Also
Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

No one preached to our ancestors so is it the will of God that they also be saved and come to a knowledge of Him?

obonujoker:
Ancestors are fallen angels parading and deceiving you.

The devil can appear as an angel of light.

Ancestors of old worshipped false gods, and if any didn't repent they are suffering in hell fire now...

Jesus is the only way to salvation and enlightenment

It is given to God to judge not you.
You have no power to send any one to hell.
How do you want your ancestors to repent if no one taught them about Christ?

fuckJones:
If in heaven we will be happy forever, why didn't God create us directly in heaven?

In Psalms 115:16 says “As for the heavens, they belong to God, but the earth he has given to the sons of man.” So God created us to live on the earth.
In Psalms 37:10–1+29 says “the wicked will be gone but the righteous will live on the earth forever in an abundance of peace.” That was God’s original purpose, for man to live forever in the garden of eden. God’s purpose hasn’t changed. That’s why he gave his son to die for us. John 3:16 says “For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son for those who believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
Everlasting life right here on earth. In Ecclesiastes 1:4 says “A generation is going, and a generation is coming, but the earth remains forever.”

What is the hype of heaven?

When thinking of what heaven is like may conjure some thoughts about clouds, harps, streets of gold, a nice house. All while worshiping one supreme being.

If I were completely honest, I too have thought of things I’d rather do than spend an eternity in Heaven. What about traveling around the globe visiting destination spots and the wonders of this world? This sound like an option that I personally would prefer.

After all, humanity was created to rule over this earth and everything in it.

The Earth | To harvest its contents, to rule and subdue it.
the land
the sky
the sea
every creature
that flies in the air
swims in the sea
walks/crawls/creeps on the earth
Everything that has breath
Every plant that grows
So why Heaven? Why is the end-game to take humanity out of Earth and place humanity in God’s space?

why do you want to go to heaven?

A few things here, no verse in the bible says that God’s original purpose, for man to live forever in the garden of eden.
And by that logic, you are calling God a failure because he was unable to achieve his plan.

bayelsaowei:
Who told small lies to become a US citizen?

You're the one now making up allegations..

Watch this space and see how this admin would witch hunt political rivals and non supporters with denaturalization. Because that's the one thing they are good at.

So you are yet to present one clear case of the Trump administration hunt political rivals and non supporters with denaturalization.
But somehow, you expect us to believe your negative prophecy. Continue.
Now let me quote you.
"Almost everyone has a small omission, false representation or lie in their application'

I am sure you will claim that the are among the clean 1%. No problem.

nairalanda1:
You did not read my full post.

Also, all this your complaining about subsides, no matter how much you guys shout at me, nothing changes my opinion. Subsides are why we now have a very huge debt, and four ruined refineries. Sorry you cannot see that. And I am no APC or PDP supporter.

Again you are off point. Since you did not understand my question, let me ask again.
Please explain how subsidies affect FDI.
You wrote about what you perceive to be it's impact of debt and refineries but you did not attempt the question. I only asked about its effects on FDI

nairalanda1:
What we are seeing is the end result of borrowing for over 40 years since independence....and also years upon years of subsidies.

The tinubu government has to totally remove subsdies on electricity, and also thoroughly remove corruption, and deal with insecurity throughly....no matter whose ox is gored.

But they won't do that....that is why we have the mess we have now.

This is all the fault of running an economy based on selling of resources. Not on manufactured goods and services.

Please explain how subsidies affect fdi. Again, most of our debt was incurred in the last 10 years.

bayelsaowei:
does Trump take long cuts?

Does the Trump admin look like an admin that plays by the rule of law?

We know from data that those who are law biding are also caught up in trumps madness. Especially those who do not side with his ideologies or actions..

You told small lies to become a US citizen yet you have the courage to question if Trump's admin plays by the rules. My dear, you have lost that privilege.

Please can you point to anyone who isn't an illegal or an enemy of the state that has been in trouble with the law so far?

Let's stop making allegations that we can't defend.

DeepSight:
Did I say automatically? I said he could he queried. Hope you have learnt how to read today.

Lol
Your point was unnecessary. As much as we know, Elon has not done anything to be stripped of his citizenship, and if he has, the law should take its place.
Wouldn't you want everyone to be answerable to the law in your country?

CommonSense1967:
Obviously, you are ignorant of the laws. Anyone can be stripped of their Naturalization citizenship especially if they find out any small lie, false representation or omission in your application. It already a known public information that Elon was working in the US when he didn't have the right to.
The US govt Can always find any excuse to strip you of your citizenship if they really wanted to.
Almost everyone has a small omission, false representation or lie in their application. If the US govt want to deal with you, they will find one small mistake and pounce on it to get you out.
No one is perfect, I bet whoever filed for you probably lied or omitted so pertinent info in your application.
The only safe ones are the US naturally born citizens. Anyone else is living on a prayer with TRAMP.

If you overstayed a visa in the past but later legalized your status properly (e.g., through marriage, asylum, adjustment of status) and eventually became a U.S. citizen lawfully, your past overstay does not automatically put your citizenship at risk.

Now you have learnt something today.
And just because you and the people in your circle lied to get citizenship doesn't mean everyone does it.
The only reason you lied was that you were not qualified. If you met all qualifications, you would have zero reason to lie. You are a US citizen under pretenses. You gamed the system, and now you want the world to believe that Trump is the villain for rejecting the likes of you.
No one is buying that.

DeepSight:
Elon Musk overstayed illegally after his student visa expired and this was how he eventually got his citizenship so he can be queried.

If you overstayed a visa in the past but later legalized your status properly (e.g., through marriage, asylum, adjustment of status) and eventually became a U.S. citizen lawfully, your past overstay does not automatically put your citizenship at risk.
Hope you have learnt something today?