₦airaland Forum

Moremii:
Well that's not how I read him. He easily comes across as the most enlightened that has graced this thread so far, so I guess that's just your opinion. Like i said, I'll be waiting

You have made his day. I am sure he is celebrating your comments

ogascomax:
They are going to hell but it sound hash but except a man is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of heaven.
There is no proof that if they have heard about Jesus Christ that they would have been saved. The Jews rejected Jesus. Many nations have rejected the gospel from generations. Many missionaries were killed. The Muslim today will tell you that Muhammad is greater than Jesus Christ.
So no proof that if our ancestors have heard that they would have repented.

Ok your opinion.
But if this is the God you worship, he is evil and unjust.
He creates men, gives them no chance to hear the truth and learn about him then destroys them with the excuse that there is no proof that if they have heard about Jesus Christ that they would have been saved.
Do you really think you worship a just God?
Again we learn from
Acts 17:29 teaches that all men are offsprings of God.
You claim that your God will give his children no chance to learn about him and destroy them for that?
What would you call a father who would not teach his children the truth? A bad father
What then would you call a father who punish his kids for no fault of theirs? An evil father.
That's not the God I identify with. Is that your God?

DeepSight:
Better.

Now compose your response and rebuttal in that position.

I dey church, I can only make small small comments. No vex

LordReed:
LoLz. Which condition does the the Hindu scriptures not fulfil? Age or multiple authors over a long span?

Let's begin with the name of the Hindu scripture.
Tell me the authors.
What was there message.
The theme?
What's the span?
Then we would consider the controversies amongst the various writers.
I honestly know nothing about the Hindu scripture please educate me

DeepSight:
Kneel down and raise up your hands immediately.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ok uncle. I am on my knees sir.
Nairaland says I need 18 more characters

ejimatic:
. They will be resurrected. Act 24 :15

And what happened to them after that?

DeepSight:
Who are you calling boy. You had better get on your knees and learn some respect. I am almost certainly at least a decade older and wiser than you.

Lol
Now you want us to begin 'I am older than you debate. '
You are such a child. But I kind of like your innocent foolishness.

musicwriter:
Your post is based on falsehood and indoctrination, so there's nothing there to talk about. If you're really interested in the history and fact, I've given you a whole book to read it for yourself.

Lol
I understand you think my post is based on falsehood.
But now we have given you the privilege to correct the falsehood with your understanding of history.
Please don't give me a book to read. This is a forum where we share and sharpen ideas. Put forth your ideas and let everyone discuss them.
I could send you 20 books but that not the purpose of a forum.
This is a place to discuss. It's not all about you or I some other person's would love to contribute so don't be shy, share your history knowledge and your opinion. We are waiting.

Bananapill:
They will be judged based on natural law of good and evil.

Ok
So they can be saved even without knowing Christ?

DeepSight:
Alright go ahead.

To be clear, I have not said that I agree with every word she wrote, but go ahead because I agree with most of it. Almost all.

PS: Don't go and use ChatGPT for us oh.
Feel free to consult it, but deploy your own reasoning.

Lol
But then you can't be intimidated by AI. Humans created AI. You have nothing to fear.
Just provide answer.
I have not even replied and you are already sweating. Lol

LordReed:
Some how it seems you prefer to fight over inanities than actually progressing a conversation. I already said I was not giving Harry Potter as an example of a book written 2000 years ago. I mean why are things like this hard for you to grasp? The point was writing around a theme is not special.

Nor is the age special. We have been doing this stretching back since the dawn of writing.

But since you are asking for a book from 2000 years ago then let's look at the Hindu scriptures. The oldest was written at about 1800BCE which makes it even older than any book of the Bible and is still in use today (almost 4000 years later) by more than 1 billion Hindu so I dunno why you think the age of the Bible or the number of authors are special.

So we both agree that Harry Potter does not meet my conditions now to your next book the Hindu scripture, again doesn't meet the conditions I gave. I did not ask you to name me a book older than the bible that is still used today. Please read again the conditions and attempt the question the third time.

igatit:
Salvation comes through conscious faith in Jesus Christ.
John 14:6 – "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Those who never heard the gospel are still accountable for their sin through natural revelation (e.g., Romans 1:18-20), and are without excuse.
This view often wrestles with the fairness of judgment for those who never had the chance to hear.

Now let's look it from a Post-Mortem View
Those who never heard the gospel in life may be given the chance to hear and respond after death.
1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 – refers to Christ preaching to “spirits in prison.”
God’s mercy may extend beyond this life for those who had no opportunity in this life. The mercy of God is upon whom He chooses.

Conclusion: Only those who explicitly confess Christ in this life will be saved.
Although this raises difficult questions about God’s justice and mercy, especially for children, remote tribes, and the mentally disabled.

Let me ask a question to understand you. If someone did not hear the gospel but was very good at keeping natural revelation as you call it. These are good and just men but they did not know Christ, what would be their fate?

Moremii:
No problem Sir. I'll be waiting for your rebuttal too.

No, that was meant for your brother. He is carried away by every wind that discredits Christ. The boy has zero opinion as long as it's against Christ. And yes expect to hear more.

Moremii:
Hmmm. It's alright. I expected responses like this.

For your information, I'm not discrediting Christ. Where did I discredit Christ from my OP to my second post? Christ is undeniable, but I'm saying he's not the domesticated version you guys worship as the blood sacrifice of a false god. Yaldaboath is your god, not mine. Christ goes against everything your Demiurge espouses, particularly in the Old Testament.

Maybe you should ask yourself the following questions, if you're truthful to yourself:

1. Why does a loving command genocide in the Hebrew Bible?
2. Why must salvation require blood sacrifice if your god truly forgives sins?
3. Why do we need to engage with priestly mediators when we were told that we're made in God's image?
4. Why is seeking knowledge forbidden in parts of the Hebrew Bible and even treated as spiritual pride. Is ignorance a virtue to you?

In your version of Christianity you champion blind faith, even with all the vagueness and contradictions compiled by Constantine. You subject Christ by making him a subordinate to a tribal god who only cares about the Israelites, and I'm the one who's undermining abi discrediting Christ? LOL.

Hmm
Twisted thoughts.
Your point is that genocide in the bible is that great prove that christians worship Yaldaboath.
You are all over the place but I don't see the connection. What's your real evidence that Yaldaboath is the Christian God. You guys keep making up things.

abidem4real:
What I see here is religious illusion and bamboozlement which has enslaved humanity from the time immemorial

Explain please

musicwriter:
You're the one that said Jesus existed, so the onus is on you to prove it.

The origin and evolution of the concept of Christ is in the book I gave you earlier. Read it and you'll understand where and how the idea of Christ came from, right here in Africa for thousands of years before anybody heard of Jesus

You seem to be uncomfortable when asked to explain your beliefs. I was the one that created this thread. I was the one that raised the question. You have an answer and I only want you to elaborate on your answer. Please educate us some more.
You claim that your opinion is historical so asking you to show us the historical evidence is not out of place. In fact it's the best follow up question. I am surprised you were not prepared for it.

DIVINEEVIDENCE:
It is not bunkum.

Before the advent of Christ, civilisations had rules and taboos and regulations.
They will be judged according to how uprightly they lived in respect to their conscience and societal perceptions of Right and Wrong.

Romans 2:14-16
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

After Christ's death and resurrection, people will be judged based on their acceptance and confession of the faith and Lordship of Christ.

Acts 4:11, 13
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 17:29, 30
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:


John 3:17, 18
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Then why did Christ need to come if before his coming, our uprightness, respect to our conscience and societal perceptions of Right and Wrong was enough to save us.
You seem to be making the argument that Christ coming, agonizing sacrifice and teaches was not necessarily to salvation. There was a working alternative before his coming. Is that your argument?

DeepSight:
What religion? And who is discrediting Christ?

I simply referred you here for the masterclass on the history of the Bible which is one of the areas you are very deficient on.

Accept help when it is offered.

Lol
You only accepted a position that discredits Christ.
You don't even know if anything she said is true.
A lot she said is false but then you don't care. It's the kind of things you love hearing.
Can we do something here, I will write a rebuttal to her and I want you to defend her position with history and facts. Do you accept the challenge?
Let's see if you really have any position.

musicwriter:
Yes, but the difference is that your opinion is FICTIONAL while mine is HISTORICAL.

You have no prove whatsoever that Jesus existed, except what you read in your fictional holy book.

Lol
Oya nah educate us on the history. I am all ears.

DeepSight:
Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant.

Where have you been.

Have you heard or read of the Demiurge. Because part of what you described aligns with that.

FreeIgboho / Tctrills. Within this write up there is much that should enlighten you on the history of the Bible.

Lol
You have this affinity for strange, unproven and quite foolish opinions. Anything that discredits Christ, they will find you there.
Now can you highlight the teachings of Jesus Christ that are reflected in this religion you guys are talking about ?
Please compare the teachings of your Yaldabaoth to that of Jesus Christ let's see how far you go.

You just swallowed everything in the writeup without asking a single question or even making your own research. As long as the writing disproves the divinity of Christ you automatically support it

musicwriter:
Indeed, without religious indoctrination, your brain would work properly enough to answer that question yourself. The answer should tell you that you don't need Jesus. Unfortunately, those who wanted to control the masses invented Jesus to enslave you.

Be informed that your ancestors were saved. It's you that's not saved and will never be saved because Jesus is a FRAUD!

The Jesus described in the Bible never existed.

All the Christo-messiahs evolved qfrom the snake even before anybody heard of Jesus.

Read the book: what is Satan? What is Lucifer? The biggest secret in the world, and you'll see how all the Messiahs, saviors evolved. Read the PDF version only, that's where you'll find the details

Your opinion.

Chief2410:
Reincarnation is not for our evolution. Of what use is reincarnation when I can't remember my past life memories?each life time we come blank,no past life lessons and wisdom to apply in the current life time.we end up repeating similar life times countless number of times.it is a trap preventing us from evolving.who ever designed this system does not have good intentions for us.

So correct. They doctrine of reincarnation is stupidity

But you confirm that they know in saying

"no matter who they are or where they come from, that God judges them on what they do, not just on what they say or what group they belong to. So, if you know what's right but you don't do it, that's not good.".

That clearly means that they have heard and know the Word of God.
You claim they know the word of God so my question remains, why send Christ is without him, they already know the word of God.
Again, your comments go against the words of Paul.

Romans 10.14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Let me ask again, how shall they hear without a preacher.

Chief2410:
You are one of the ancestors that you worry about...You are an incarnate of your ancestor.

Oh you are in team reincarnation. I see

donnie:
That’s what you were taught by ignorant and crooked Christians of Jehovah witnesses. You white Jesus is devil that appears as an angel of light.



Before missionaries came with their Christ, Jesus or any of those borrowed Africa words, our people knew about salvation and were in fact in the actual promised land when Satan and his Angels came preaching so-called gospel.

Funny and untrue but you are entitled to your opinion

[quote author=LordReed post=136004293]Is that what I said?



LoLz. Not even close to what I said or meant. I said the Samson killing Philistines story does not bring anybody peace. Can you sincerely claim that people read the story of Samson decide that peace with their neighbours is the best course of action?

I followed up by saying that it is part of the reason there is problem in the Middle East. Are you going to claim that the fighting in that story and the fighting in real life are not intertwined? That there is not a tradition the has insisted that the Levant was a gift of the god Yahweh to his so called chosen people Israel? A tradition that purportedly drove Samson to be a champion for his people? Come on now don't feign modesty now. You people believe they were commanded to slaughter all the people that were there before, why are you now clutching your pearls like an old white woman.

Again, you are so wrong. And the fact that Samson was given strength to fight his enemy is somehow a reason for war 3000 years ago shows the lengths you are prepared to go in an argument, even when it makes no sense. I honestly don't know how to respond to your twisted logic. According to you, if Samson had not killed the Philistines, the Middle East would be the most peaceful place on earth.


It is the most influential because some of the most powerful empires of our history pushed this book to the point of a sword.

Wrong again, Christianity suffered decades of being the most persecuted religion. It survived and even thrived. For 300 years, Christians were persecuted, yet the religion grew. So the influence began even before Constantine.


I dunno what you mean by eternal truth. Tell me what you mean with an example or two and maybe I an tell you.



Eh, Well I dunno what you so yeah can't recognise what I dunno.
My point exactly so lets keep the debate to what you know



There are other inspirational books, what the Bible has going for it that it was pushed by the largest world power the world has seen so far and before that some other powerful empires also pushed it. Do you think if the Indians had been the ones in the place of say the British Empire you would see the same widespread nature of the Bible? No you won't. For example you can see it in all the places where the British Empire made scant or no ininroads, the Bible doesn't have a strong presence there eg China, Japan, Mongolia, most of Northern Africa, the Middle East, etc.
I already told you, even before the first emperor became a Christian. Even when being a Christian put a target on your back, from day one, the religion was spreading and gaining influence. This explains why Christianity is the fastest-growing religion in Iran, a country where being a Christian is Haram. Geographically, Iran is closer to Buddhist and Hindu populations. It doesn't need kings and empires.



All religious text have the same sort of inspiration: the need to preserve culture and tradition. None of them are divinely inspired, they are all the works of men.
Your opinion
Then again, you are wrong. The writings of the Apostles and prophets are inspired by God, and millions of lives have been lifted, healed, and saved by their words.

LordReed:
Dude I just used Harry Potter to illustrate a point. Writing about a particular theme has been done from the time we as humans started writing. I am not seeing why you think it is a reason the Bible is divinely inspired. People from all over the world write books on particular themes without meeting themselves why do you think geographical spread makes the authourship of the Bible remarkable? Are you saying subsequent authors never read the works the authors who came before them? Which can't be the case since they do make references to the past books so I at loss to why you find this compelling.

I asked you to give me a book that was written over a span 2000 years by over 60 writers and still keeps it's theme and the best you could come up with is Harry Potter. You just made my point, you have nothing to compare with the bible. Nothing comes close.
Please take some time, do some research and come up with something better than Harry Potter.

FreeIgboho:
Me too, Google did the rest!

lol

DeepSight:
You mean you do not know the history of the Bible you talk about so carelessly?
Oh, I forgot. What do you knw without ChatGPT.

lol
Now, can you present your evidence, or are you just here for drama as usual? We both know you don't know what you are saying

DeepSight:
In addittion to what Reed has said, the truth is that because the Roman Curia carefully editted the contents of the Bible, it was possible to maintain certain themes while excluding much that was contrary.

Please do not just make claims. Show evidence. Let's not just make things up.

LordReed:
This is funny. It is like claiming all the people who are writing about Harry Potter apart from JK Rowling are divinely inspired. Dude writing about a singular theme is not as rare as you seem to be implying. LoLz.

So Harry Potter is the book you feel meets the standard of the bible. Please explain how Harry Potter even comes close. I don't even see your point here please throw more light

DeepSight:
Lazinness is a sin. Dishonesty is a worse sin.
Plagiarism is terrible.

Ok bro. I agree.