DonEd:
Who makes love covered in a duvet? That portrait looks like a skit shot.

It definitely has to be a movie.

The woman is not the man’s helper, she’s his responsibility.

Yes, the information in the Bible is not false, your belief is the false.

Adam lied because he was not deceived, neither was he pushed to eat yet he made it look as though he was. This is why his behavior and words were termed as lie.

You blaming Eve for whatever happened manifests the same irresponsibility Adam exhumed. This is why I mentioned that it’s aged old fallacy. Not that the Bible itself is false, I was referring to the Adamic fallacy.

thesicilian:

It's clearly stated in 1st Timothy which I even copied for you in case you didn't have a bible near you but obviously you don't like reading. Adam wasn't the one deceived, Eve was. But still he committed sin by eating the fruit because he disobeyed the instructions not to eat it. Irrespective of whether he was pushed into it or not.

Adam's lie as shown in the job passage you presented was that he tried to hide his sin for fear of the consequences

God's word is not fallacy. You just don't understand what you're reading.

Like I said, you’re simply preaching an aged long fallacy. Adam didn’t do anything bc of Eve. Adam did something bc he chose a way contrary to what God told him.

Even the Bible established that Adam lied and covered his sin out of fear of what God might do to him (Job 31:33).

Lastly, I have been reading the Bible for quite some time and I have many published articles on here but there’s no where I have seen that bible says that it was devil that deceived Eve. Stop letting aged old fallacies consume you.

Nobody made anyone do anything, people simply do whatever they want. Their claim that others made them do something is simply a lie and Adam lied in the beginning.

thesicilian:

It's because you read the bible without understanding it. How did Adam commit the sin? Through Eve. Even those who don't read the bible know that satan through the serpent approached Eve, not Adam.

Now read this

This old fallacy! The devil came into life through the woman, right? Yet bible says sin came into the world through Adam and death by sin. I don’t think y’all are reading the Bible right.

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thesicilian:

The devil has always come into the home through the woman, right from the beginning of time. The fact that most men never see this coming always baffles me

..

I agree with you.

paxonel:



To me, i think this episode of Adam and Eve eating from a tree that was not meant for them to eat is a story for babies to understand.
In reality, I think it was a sin of rebellion

Did the Bible ever tell you that the serpent is the devil?

And yes the serpent could be thought or desire but no where does anyone tell you these are the devil.

paxonel:

I never said Adam and Eve were made to sin.
As a matter of fact, the decision to sin or not to sin were theirs, not the serpent
ofcourse you can call it the devil.
But that devil is not a spirit that has power to manipulate or dominate your decision.
It can just be a thought of the mind or someone else trying to trick you to question God. In either way, you can decide not to heed to it. When you do that, it means it does not exist

So you’re one of those who think that Adam and Eve were made to sin, right?

I thought you said you’re a realistic human? Did the bible tell you that anyone made Adam and Eve sin?

If you’re a realistic human being, think of the snake realistically. What’s that one thing that can speak to you and cause you to question God’s commandments? Is that thing the devil?

paxonel:
because if Adam and Eve did not sinned, then there would have been no need of devil.
This also implies that if we too do not sin, then there is no need for devil.
His existence is tied to us sinning. Meaning, if we do not sin, then he does not exist.

And even if we find ourselves sinning, then we should take responsibility for our actions and should not blame the devil which really do not exist.

Infact, we do exist and are more significant than one abstract entity called the devil.

Or have you ever heard anyone who is indicted of committing a crime saying na devil cause am?
He will face the consequences of his actions alone without any devil

Do you see it from where you quoted in John that the devil sinned in the beginning? How then do you say there’s no devil?

paxonel:
you see, what we call the devil is just simply consequences.
And what we call Angel or God's intervention is also simply consequences.

In this life, You can't plant potato only to reap banana, it's not possible.

If anyone is unconscious, then he is unconscious and knows nothing pending when he recovers. At that point, the only thing that speaks for him is what he has done before he became unconscious.
If he was a wicked person around, then there is likelyhood that he will get little help and may not survive. That situation were he gets little help that eventually kills him becomes the devil. This is one practical way we can see devil, There is no devil anywhere.


Another way we can see devil is on the spiritual point of view as it concerns most scriptures in the bible, the devil is simply any religion that is against God.
Mark it, the devil or Satan is ANY RELIGION OR FAITH.

for instance,
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Thank you for understanding.

MaxInDHouse:


Well each person is entitled to his or her own opinion that's mine and i used it as teaching in my ministry so i'm not surprised that it differ from yours however keep up with whatever you believe so far its yielding fine fruit. Matthew 7:16-18

Cheers !

Your point is irrational Mr. Pax. For example, if someone is unconscious or disabled and can’t do normal activities, does that mean they don’t exists?

Forgiveness and other Godly principles renders the devil disabled, they don’t make him inexist. The devil exists and operates in the life of those who walk contrary to Godly principles.

I don’t know why you choose to talk contrary to established truth. The devil operates in the heart of the children of disobedience.

paxonel:
so what's the difference?

The devil cannot operate because you forgive, how then does he exist?
His existence is rendered useless by his inability to operate, therefore he exist for nothing which amount to him not existing at all
that is, the operation of the devil is solely determined by our actions, for instance if we forgive or not?

We are saying the same thing now.

Obviously, we are the devil, and we can also be the Angel. There is nothing more than that

.

Don’t be ridiculous Mr. Pax, the Bible doesn’t say if you forgive, then devil doesn’t exist. It says if you don’t forgive then you have given the devil opportunity to operate but if you forgive, he won’t be able to operate. This doesn’t in any way infer that the devil doesn’t exist, it’s just speaking about grounds of operation of the devil.

paxonel:
It does!

Now, imagine a student for example, who fails to read, and when he fails his exam he blame it to a devil.
Does that tell you that a devil truly exist?
like what kind of compelling force?
I just want to see one practical example
you see this type of African fictional beliefs?
It is truly not from God.
It certainly has no biblical reference.
And it is never applicable to reality.

It is the key reason why Africans are lagging behind in everything.

Please let's look at the scripture again for confirmation.

2 Corinthians 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

You see now that the scripture specifically mentioned forgiveness?
Meaning, if we learn to forgive one another, then there is no devil.
Conversely, if we read our books and prepare for our exams, then there is no devil.
In general, if we know the right thing to do and we do it, then there is no devil.

It's not as if devil is one spirit or person that manipulate people.
It is in our doing that determines devil.

So devil do not exist in the real sense

This is not scriptural Mr. Max. I’ll appreciate if you don’t bring all that myths here. You can see people are attacking reasons here and not myths.

If you think devil is an angel, let him dwell in your mind and not on this thread. Thank you.

MaxInDHouse:
The Devil is a real angel who rebelled against God unlike Jesus the angel who always please his father Satan chooses to oppose his father always that's why God is always proud of Jesus:

“This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:5

All spirit beings in heaven are God's sons:

"When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause" Job 38:7

But the one and only spirit son of God that was transformed into human introduced to us as a teacher is Jesus Christ that's why God warned His worshipers not to listen to any other angel because none was sent as a teacher apart from Jesus:

For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”? Hebrews 1:5

In this context God is not saying angels aren't His sons anymore but that He never introduced any of them to mankind as a teacher or role model apart from the first angel or firstborn:

But when He again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, He says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him" Hebrews 1:6

The word obeisance means to OBEY someone so all intelligent living creatures must obey God's Son whom He introduced {Philippians 2:10} that is if they want to continue living {John 3:16} so both in heaven and on earth all intelligent living creatures must obey Jesus! 1Corinthians 15:27

You people are not even serious. A country says they want to buy export of their own cloth. You who are a mere benefactor says otherwise. Don’t they have the right to export and import whatever they want? If they refuse to export, what’s Kenya’s issues with that?

amiibaby:
Haba why mess with someone means of livelihood just cos u have the power. Their gov should ensure all waste are properly disposed of instead of outright ban. That is inhumane

Do no mind the distractors on this thread. Focus on the subject matter. God was the helper Adam required and not the woman.

I think your assumptions that the devil doesn’t affect life is not founded on justifiable reason.

Of course, like God, devil has a compelling force on life, it just depends on whoever bends to it.

I will ask you to go learn how the devil operates because ignorance of Satan’s means and pattern of operation will cost you a lot. Even the Bible mentions that we’re not ignorant of Satan’s devices because there are practical ways that Satan uses tricks to affects reality.

paxonel:
in this case, all human experiences have indicated that whether Devil exist or not, it's of no significance to humans alive, therefore it do not really exist.
Unlike God who has a huge impact such as creating the air we breath, the clouds, the water and even humans exhibiting his image and likeness through intelligence
but there are evidence that it has gravitational pool therefore it is a real matter even though it does not transmit light ?
It therefore follows that the existence of black matter or whatever abstract entity, do not really apply to any analogy aiming at the existence of an insignificant devil or Satan.

God was the helper, companion and support for Adam. This is the whole context of the scripture.

Not being able to see a thing doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Reflective thinking was why we arrived at the thought of black matters even though we can’t see any black matter

paxonel:

I know that you know this.
I'm only saying that my opinion is based on this fact and scripture that you already know, and also that i have never seen Satan before

Yes we’re architects of our decisions and what we become is merely a culmination of our decisions but it’ll be a huge and unnecessary assumptions for you to think I didn’t already know this before saying that Satan exists.

paxonel:
well, the only Satan that exist is the one Jesus described as a thief

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

No physical Satan anywhere, we are the architects of our misfortunes, not any Satan.

Europeans have understood this a long time ago, that's why they took time to build their world, so that no one will have excuse.
But we Africans are always giving excuses that it is one Satan or witchcraft or juju

The fact that we don’t see something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist physically. For example, scientists have speculated the physical existence of black holes even though we can’t see it.

We’re not supposed to see Satan but that doesn’t mean he’s not here.

paxonel:

So tell me,
Have you ever seen devil or Satan in the sense before?
Tell me your experience

I think particular Hadith is stupid.

advocatejare:

Nonsense, you are not a Muslim but you are telling Muslims to reject the Hadith. It’s either you are liar or you are confused.

Without the Hadith no Muslim can effectively practice his religion: they won’t know the number of rakat per prayer, the names of their prayers, how to perform their various ritualistic baths, what to recite while naming their children, conducting burial, when having sex etc.


So telling them to reject their Hadith is like telling them to stop being Muslims.

They all wish to emulate Muhammad in everything he did, the only place they claim they get to learn about the deeds and sayings of Muhammad is the Hadith

I disagree with you conclusion

paxonel:
I was terribly confused as well,until i began to be objective. Then i start to understand what the religion is truly driving at.
The truth is, billions of Christians are reading the bible, yet they cannot see beyond the letters to understand what is there
This explains why religionists are so vulnerable intellectually. Not that the bible wasn't intelligently written
like I have explained, certain parts of the bible(including the book of revelation were metaphorically written.
Jesus parables falls into that category.

Some of the metaphors were outrightly interpreted. Examples are the parable of the mustard seed which was iliterally nterpreted as thus:

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Take note of how the interpretation was done : The field is this
The good seed is that

It's simple to understand.

But meanwhile, there are vast metaphors like this in the bible that was never interpreted. Examples are metaphors found in the book of revelation such as

Revelation 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

The beast, the seal, and others such as black horse, wild insects, mark 666 etc, all represents something in the literal or real sense which were never interpreted.

But when you have read the bible from Genesis to revelation, you will have a full understanding of what those animations or objects represents literally.

The point is, it is far better to have the literal understanding and apply them to our president real world.

The bible was written for us to understand, we were not created for the bible to confuse us.

So, if you come across anything in the bible like Satan falling from the sky or any fictional events. Look for how that Satan or event is applied to reality.

There is nothing like Satan or devil in the real sense.
Whatever happens to us is a function of the decisions we have taken in the past

advocatejare:

It’s either you are stupid, or your Hadith is stupid (because I only posted your Hadith here, no be me write am), or the so person that mutilated the poor man was stupid not to have reasoned that it was obvious that the accused was either mentally unstable or people were lying against him. Unfortunately the same person who claimed to receive revelation from Allah didn’t receive anything concerning the poor man until he eventually ordered for his death!

I wanted to say. I’m not a Muslim, and I think the whole Hadith thing is stupid. It’s probably made up and it’s reasonable for Muslims to reject it.

The word “meet” denotes presence. Not just presence but a continual presence. So God said, “I will show him help by my presence continually” Which is supposed to indicate that Adam will be continually helped by the presence of God and outside the presence of God, Adam shall not be helped and he shall labour.

This is why the whole of the scripture and the psalms is dedicated to correcting this our idea by consistently revealing God as our helper and provider.

Yet, the word translated as “make” means “to do, to perform, to show, or to provide” in Hebrew. The same word was used in other parts of Genesis (Gen. 18:29, 18:30, 27:37, 30:30, 31:43, etc.) and none of it means “to create.”

Therefore, the statement God made was, “I will perform him an help meet for him; I will do him an help meet for him; I will show him an help meet for him; I will provide him an help meet for him.” The statement reveals God as the provider/doer/performer of this help in line with other usage of the word in similar contexts. God is the provider of the Help Adam needed and not Eve, and his sin was initiated by listening to Eve who was not his helper.

The second error in the popular interpretation is this:
We (Yes, I have made the mistake several times till I saw it) often assume that the phrase “help meet” is the same as the word “helpmate” but that is not the case. The phrase “help meet” is only relevant in the statement. It means “the help will be meet for Adam.”

So God says “I will make him an “help that is meet” for him” and this statement can be rephrased as “I will make him an help meet for him”

This is a continuation to the first part. Those who have not read the first part should check on my profile.

Why did theologians and Christians, Muslims, Judaist, and almost every other person conclude that Eve was the helper God mentioned in the Genesis? It’s simply because of a statement in Genesis 2:18:

“It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.”

Where are the errors?
The first error in the popular interpretation is the misinterpretation of the word “make” in the statement. The word “make” popularly means “to create something” in English language, so most people assume that God was saying, “I will create him an help meet for him.”

However, the word also means “to perform, to carry out” in English language but this meaning is not as popular as the first so most people do not interpret the verse in this context. Plus, their understanding of the purpose of life tends to affect their ability to interpret the verse—those who think marriage and child-bearing is the purpose of life will see no other person needed for that purpose other than Eve, as only a woman (not God or animals) can help a man have children.

I’m a Muslim but I think this post is stupid. How on earth will a person who has no hand and leg steal? I think emotion (dislike for Islam) is clouding your reasoning in this situation.

advocatejare:
There was a man who called himself a prophet and claimed to be a mercy to the world. However, he was rather brutal and merciless. He ordered people to be Maimed and tortured. His name was Muhammad, the prophet of Islam

A man who was obviously mentally unstable was caught stealing and taken to Muhammad and he ordered that the man should be killed but he was reminded that the man stole and Muhammad said that the thief’s right hand should be cut and it was done. The man was caught again and again and Muhammad kept on ordering his body to be cut until the man was eventually killed on the order of Muhammad


Muslims are so ashamed of this act by their prophet today that they now lie that the Hadith is weak but the Hadith is not weak, it’s graded Hassan which means good

Muhammad should have shown mercy to that thief because the he was obviously not mentally stable to have been going back and forth to be stealing even after his hands and foot were cut off!

A man who called himself prophet of God should have known better

..

Focus on the thread and don’t mind the distractors on the thread.

I hope you’re able to change your perspective. Don’t mind the quarrelers on the thread. Just read and see a different perspective. God bless you.