₦airaland Forum

Akin1212:
Simple questions require simple answers. Logical questions require logical answers. If you're going to do this, don't clog this thread with bible verses or verses from the quran. This logic is very straightforward.


Before Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree, they didn't know anything called evil, we can as well say they didn't know good too. They were just zombies.

The instruction given to them by God was that, if they eat from the tree, they will acquire the knowledge of good and evil, in other words, they will know what is bad and also know what is good and that they will die. They didn't even know that death is bad neither did they know that disobedience is bad, since they had not eaten from the tree.

Now, how were they supposed to process that death or disobedience were bad things and make the decision on something they had no knowledge of?
If you bring up the excuse that Satan deceived them, then how were they supposed to know that Satan was deceiving them, were they warned to beware of Satan?

If you have freewill, you must have knowledge of good and evil before you can process deceit, do good or do evil. You cannot commit sin if you don't have the knowledge of good and evil. So where did the concept of the original sin come from? Did they commit the sin before having the knowledge of good and evil? It does not add up.

Theists, think deeply for once in your lives.

I’m afraid you’re the one who needs to think deep for once in your life in this occasion sir. So I’ll just take you on a short ride so your brain don’t get blown out. Promise no bible verse, just logic.

I think it’s rather flimsy for you to assume that Adam and Eve didn’t know what’s good or bad before eating of there tree. Because if one hasn’t experienced death (which can be better put “eat the fruit of death”) that does not mean of ignorance of death.

So your assumption that they were like zombie is illogical and unreasonable. Not have Experiential/personal knowledge of anything does not equate ignorance of that thing. Experiential knowledge give certain result, and knowledge based on reason give certain results.

Many scientific knowledge are solely based on reason (and we call them theories), but we do not and cannot have experiential knowledge of such things, yet we are not ignorant of such things.

Also, I think you overly simplified or twisted what God said just to make your point. This is a common attribute of life and in psychology, it’s a product of non thinking or shabby thinking. You claimed God said they’ll know good and evil if they eat that tree. That’s not true, that’s not what God said. God said they’ll die if they eat of that tree. So i really don’t know if you read from the Bible or just imagined some words off your head. So endeavor to get your facts right before you put out your words bc people will know your biases and awkward thinking from your words

Lastly, I think you need to take some time to learn further because the word “eat” in that context refers to consuming or enjoy, or to derive satisfaction from that thing called the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But on a broader scale, this doesn’t mean Adam and Eve couldn’t have “used” the that tree for its purposefully. God only commanded them not to consume the tree, he didn’t tell them not to use it.

So the problem was not that they used it, they consumed it for satisfaction of desires. For example cocaine and other consciousness altering drugs are very dangerous drugs if “consumed”. Yet they can be “used” as a pain reliever and for treating many human diseases. But if cocaine is “consumed” for for pleasure, that becomes a problem that even the government punishes one for.

So the government in this context is God and he punished them for consuming what they could have only used for its purposefully.

Ok, I know you’ll deny this so I’ll only let you imagine it. Let’s imagine that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the penis, that way, Eve can easily be deceived bc she doesn’t have a penis and what lies within her legs is a flower.

Therefore, to use the penis is to use it for its primary purpose which is to urinate and if you don’t use it for that, there will be problem. The consumption of the penis will be to have sex, this way it’ll be consume for satisfaction of sexual desires. You can see that the result of these thing things are different. So imagine God telling Adam to use the penis but not to consume it for satisfaction. That’s if you can imagine btw.

So I think your idea is rather limited and you need to broaden your scope of thinking. I do have a book titled “look again”, it might help you understand human nature which is the Adam nature and the nature you have which also is the nature that God hates. When you get certain understanding, you’ll not write something so biased like this.

tctrills:
Did God expect Adam to fall? Yes. Just the same way he knows that we all would fall in sin at one point or the other. That was why he provided a way even before the creation of the world.
1 Peter 1:19-20

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev. 13. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Without Adam, there would be not Christ and Savior.
Without Christ, we can't go back to God.

The first comment I read on your post said “you could have just kept quiet” I think I understand why the person might have said that bc your starting summation about God’s expectation of Adam’s sin is not according to I’m understanding.

I’m glad you didn’t keep quiet though. We all must learn to confess the word, and in doing so, we’ll do better. If children were told to keep quiet every time they spoke, you and I would never be able to speak today.

That said, I think it’s wrong for you to say God expected Adam to see. No, that’s false. The fact that God already knew he’ll sin doesn’t mean God expected it. You need to understand this. Imagine you need to imagine it properly.

God did all he could to avoid Adam’s sin, but Adam still sinned, so the problem was Adam. God did not predetermined that Adam should sin. What Christ is was available for Adam to be, but Adam refused to obey the commandments of God, so God sent his word to come do what man couldn’t do and achieve man’s destiny.

So what happened in the beginning was treachery, it’s not God’s plan or what God desired. It was treachery of the highest order and it’s the problem of life. Plotting to be as your creator is betrayer, if you don’t know this, learn from politics.

budaatum:
I don't believe you. So prove it, Techobey! Instead of hoping we'd believe what is obviously not true.

I do not have such time sir. I rather take a beating than having to strike down my opponent.

budaatum:
The truth is not a thing that one "believes", David. Your maths teacher never told you to believe Pythagoras theorem or any other theorem. They proved it to be the truth and also must have taught you to prove it is true too.

One asks and knocks and seeks for the truth until one knows and understands if a thing is true or not, instead of believing anything anyone says is the truth.

We are not all descendants of stupid believing Adam you see, ignorantly believing we are man's rib or will die if we ask and knock and seek.


The only person one "kindly respects" here is oneself, you'd find, and if you respect yourself you wouldn't be insulting others by claiming you believe they are animals and goats, because once you disrespect others, all respect for you if any goes out the window.

Basically, it's like you do respect onto others as you do respect onto yourself, and if you don't respect yourself, no one will respect you. But you're new here I guess. You'll learn.

Please beware that you are very free to believe whatever you want, and so long as you don't post your belief on Nairaland, no one on Nairaland will challenge you. Or don't you notice how we even ignore your belief on YouTube? But once you stick your belief in our face here on Nairaland and claim it is the truth, expect to hear us say prove it Techobey!

Mr budda I would like not to discus with you pls. There are only two theories, it’s either you’re created by God or you evolved from animals.

It’s either you’re human or you’re animals by the evolution theories. I said I believe I’m created, you can believe you’re animals if you want and that’s fine by me. I’ll not tell you that your theories are false.

I really don’t have energy for such directionless argument. Believe whatever you like and that’s fine.

jaephoenix:
1. Kleptomania is a mental disease. We give opioids and psychotherapy
2. You're dealing with a physician with psychiatric leanings. So yes I know a lil bit more about the human psyche than you. Humans have tendency for violence but its not accepted, and definitely not normal. Lemme give an example. If you see a man always breaking his TV, slapping his wife, biting his neighbors etc. Do you sit down and say oh, that's normal with humans? No! You bundle him to the psyche ward. Unfortunately in our religious environment, we take them to churches
So long and short, violence is a part of the human response spectrum but not natural and acceptable
3. Cheating isnt acceptable anywhere. Why? Becausr there is always a victim. Same as violence
Now answer, who is the victim when 2 men or women engage in homosexual act?
PS: I know your dim brain tells you anyone that supports gay is automatically gay. Well you're wrong. I'm not gay. Thank you

With due respect sir, you don’t know about the human psyche more than me. What you know is human body and not psyche so kindly retract you statement.

Violence is natural, in psychoanalysis, everything is just violence and a doctor and a thief are channeling their violence differently.

So what you saying is not reasonable. The fact that society accept one thing does not make it rational.

Do you understand that you insulting me and calling my brain dim is also violence? Bc Is this continues, it’ll culminate to the level of physical violence. Verbal violence are as destructive as physical ones.

Gay is can be viewed as a disease if you think kleptomania is also a disease. The fact that society accepts one and hates the other does not make it rational.

Kindly, study these things more rationally pls. I hope you know that you saying you’re not gay doesn’t actually mean you’re not one.

Horus:
To have the video in normal forma, simply replace the word "shorts" with the word "watch" in the url

Thank you so much

jaephoenix:
Lol. You don't possess the mental capacity to interface me.
I dont even know how to start. From my little discourse with you on this platform, you have never attempted any of my questions. Just all over the place. From your talk of Sodom and Gomorrah etc. Nothing. You couldn't prove anything.
I don't even want to go into authenticity of your buybull. You'll get lost. No need

Ok I agree, you’re more intelligent than I could ever be sir. Thank you sir. Do have a lovely day.

budaatum:
I am not a creationist, Techobeys, and evidence does not support the creation story in Genesis nor any other myth to be true. And the two in Genesis were not the first nor the last creation myths.

Here's a list if you're interested.

Your loss for not believing the truth. This is probably why you’ll never be able to have understanding. This explained why most of your interpretation of the bible are rather awkward. But it’s ok. Believe that you’re an animal or a goat all you want.

I believe I’m created by God so let’s kindly respect each other and not stick our mouth in each other’s path ok?

budaatum:
In maths we call this wuruwuru to the answer you wish is the truth. And I wish it worked on my bank manager so that when I deposit 1000 Naira, I can convince him it's a million.

Ok you’re right I’m wrong

jaephoenix:
Who said stealing, cheating, violence are natural?
Some people who steal may be kleptomaniac, which is a mental disease. Same as violent people. Some can be manic diseases. But none of them are normal.
They aint the same as homosexuality.
Get a grip Techobeys. Continue your crappy Youtube channels and leave cerebral discourses alone

If someone is a kleptomaniac, is that an intentional behaviour?

I know you don’t have idea about human psych but violence is natural to humans. Go study it and you’ll see.

Some people can’t help cheating either, they’ll always cheat bc it’s in them.

So if you think none of these vices should be accepted, why should homosexuality be accepted over violence. You need to study beyond your biases and desires to sleep with men. Violence is as natural as homosexuality, if you’ll fight for one to be accepted, then fight for the other too otherwise stop this nonsense pls.

HUMANIIST:
A child is born, and upon hitting puberty, discovers that he or
she is attracted to the same gender.
Confused at first, they wondered why they had no romantic
attraction to the opposite gender.
They feel differently, and without a support system they end
up isolating themselves, trying to figure out the hows and
whys.
They never created themselves, nor do they have control over
this attraction.
But homophobia, propagated by religion, leads them to hate
themselves, to the extent of suffering from internalised
homophobia.
This is when a homosexual fight and bullies other
homosexuals to avoid suspicion.
And they can be very convincing.
In nature, we have counted over 1500 species that engage in
homosexuality.
Unfortunately, homophobia exists in one, humans.
The beauty of life lies in our differences. You can't hate
someone because of his race, beliefs or sexuality.
Live and let live.

AndroidAI

Yes it’s natural. Cheating is natural. Stealing is natural. Is natural for politicians to be corrupt. Violence is natural and this is a psychological fact. Its both inherited and learned.

Why do people get punished for violence? So you see why wanting to establish gay is stupid? Unless we’ll allow violence to be accepted as natural then we cannot allow gay to stay either. If you want to fight for gay to stay, then fight for violence to be accepted. People can’t help it either.

Otherwise you’re not serious.

jaephoenix:
There's nothing in your vlog that is educative. This is the third time you're coercing me to watch your tripe. And it would be the last time. You can't even properly analyze the buybull you say you preach, talk less of engaging an atheist

Lol. Subscribe and see! I hope you know that there’s no atheist in the world that can stand a discussion with me. It’s like you don’t know who I’m. They have not told you abi? Ask around the street pls.

I just tend not to involve myself in fruitless and unrealistic discussions that’s solely based on assumptions and partial theories which are workable in laboratories but not in real life.

If you really want to learn from what I teach, subscribe and you’ll learn, better still ask me any question about my faith and why I choose it.

Don’t worry I have a book coming out soon, you can order for it. Maybe you’ll learn to think differently from your present state.

jaephoenix:
What a clickbait! And I thought I was even going to hear something educative. Only to hear busllhit like 'This is the only world created by God' and 'Garden of Eden isn't a particular place'

Do you think you can be educated in one minuets? Why don’t you subscribe to the channel and when the full video comes out and you don’t get educated then unsubscribe.

Let’s try to be realistic sometimes.

In this video, we have explored the garden of Eden to find where it actually is. Kindly watch and share

where is Garden of Eden? FINALLY REVEALED! #biblestudy
https://youtube.com/watch/MaZoyUrGMS4?feature=share

OkCornel:
Is it their conscience that saves them? Or their works. Hmmm?

Let it go pls

budaatum:
Watched. Indeed it is a "state", though geographical references to places that existed make one wonder it might have been a "place" at some point in time. But what state might it be, one should wonder.

A nature of man is described clearly in Genesis 1, where it is described as "in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them". And that nature is very different to that of Adam, a later formation, whom we read "the Lord God formed from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

It should be obvious that the Genesis 1 human formed in God's image is not the same man later formed in Genesis 2 from dust. But it is very common for many to presume they are the same man, despite the difference in instruction they were given and the foods they were given to eat.

Now, if only we could consider that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 describe different "states" of creation. It just might give comprehension to "‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High" who will not die like mere mortals; nor fall like every other ruler, but rise to judge the earth and inherit all nations.

I think this is reasonable, but I’d have asked you to reason even further.

Have you thought that Genesis 1 creation is actually the last creation? So God declared the end from the beginning in the books.

So when God was speaking in Genesis 1, he was talking about Christ. Genesis 2 is when the world begun but before then, it’s been predetermined that Christ will come, and that Christ will be the image of God.

naijapikin2:
It is, and has always been known to exist in iraq.

We have also discovered the location of hell fire....


It is in west africa.

Nigeria to be exact.

Lmao

In this video, we have explored the garden of Eden to find where it actually is. Kindly watch and share

where is Garden of Eden? FINALLY REVEALED! #biblestudy
https://youtube.com/shorts/MaZoyUrGMS4?feature=share

OkCornel:
Very senseless arguments to be honest.

Dude outrightly lied I mentioned "salvation by conscience".

Whereas, the point I was making was the gentiles who never had the Law cannot be excused from not knowing good and evil, as they have a conscience that convicts them of wrong doing. And they will be judged ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS which Paul beautifully explained in Romans 2 v 13-16

Please tell me how diificult it is to understand what I just explained, and the Salvation by Conscience nonsense Kobojukie is saying.

Kobojunkie is fond of quoting one out of context to fuel his addiction to arguments. I don't have time for such attention seeking nonsense.

I think it’s the platform that does that to people. Honestly, I do not like arguments either but I tend to respond to give attention to my articles. If you don’t respond then your article will plung downward.

So I think it’s the spirit that controls the platform that does that to people. Yes I noticed kobojunkie some other people like arguing and sometimes it’s a totally blind argument but they can’t help it.

Just learn to observe my friend. You don’t have to respond to every comment.

Kobojunkie:
To understand what Paul means, one first need be aware of Paul's audience which is made clear in verse one, the people of Israel.
Now, to the meaning of Paul's assertion in verse 17, first we need to understand the meaning of the word faith as used in scripture, and a good place to start is by examining the life of Abraham or that which endeared Abraham to God. According to God, in Genesis 26 vs 5, it was Abraham's living his life in submission and obedience to God's Law and statutes that endeared him, Abraham, to God. Yes, Faith refers to living one's life in continuous submission and obedience to God's Law — a life of obedience to God is what a life of faith entails.

Now Paul's submission in Romans 2 insists that hearing(auditory perception) of God's law alone does not endear one to God, but rather the doing of the Law is what makes one right with God. And doing of God's Law — obedience to God's teachings and commandments — is what we know from examining the case of Abraham — is what Faith is in fact about.


Putting this together, we can then see that Paul's statement in verse 17 does not simply imply that one is endeared to God via the simple auditory perception of God's Law but rather that the process begins with the auditory perception of God's Law after which must then be followed by continuous obedience in order to be made right with God. Paul is insisting that the Good news needs to be told to the people in order for the people to at least hear the Law, after which they then make the decision of their own to follow or not follow that which they have heard with obedience. So, basically, Paul is simply advocating for aggressive preaching of the Good News to all the people of Israel in order that they might at least hear the Truth of God and as many of them who choose to obey after hearing can be saved in the end.

Also of importance to note is the fact that this letter written by Paul, like all of his other letters, does not contain or address the details --- the terms and conditions .I.e the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ---- of the Gospel, God's Law in the Kingdom of God. Those who cling to loose interpretations of the words of Paul in place of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ cannot be said to be living in faith as the Gospel refers to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, God's Law and Truth in the Kingdom of God.

---

OKCornel, here you have your Paul, the same one whom you claim informed you that one can be saved by one's conscience, instead asserting there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ, God's Law.

This is a beautiful comment but that last paragraph could have been omitted.

Kobojunkie:
1. But you have your Paul insisting that those works have to be as stipulated in God's Law, Jesus Christ. Meaning there are no works to be judged outside of God's Law, Jesus Christ. Essentially what Paul said is that it is not possible to know the right thing to do without first hearing God's Law. And even after hearing the Law, one cannot be made right with God unless one obeys God's Law — doing of the Law.

You this Kobojunkie you like argument. Why don’t you guys pay attention to each other’s point of view.

Must you guys just argue about everyone on Nairaland ? Ugrrr

budaatum:
After my response above, I then went on to watch your video, and somewhat agree with you. Its not that they do not believe however, but that they have not tested so that they may actually know.

Belief is what one has when one has not tested. Such are like those who build their houses on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

Practice in the above is how you test, and not just once but many many times over until you are absolutely certain, then faith.

I’m glad you agree with me Buddha. Hopefully you and I will agree more. I hope we can both be open minded enough and not let our selfish pride hinder us from learning from each other. Thank you for your comment though. I wish you had subscribe but it’s ok. You getting the message is also important to me so thank you so much.

There’s been so many interpretations of certain parts bible and Romans 10:17 is no different from other parts of the bible which have been misinterpreted for personal reasons.

In this one minute video, our brother explains Romans 10:17 in context with 16 and 18 to finally reveal the truth. Kindly watch and share to propagate the message. God bless you!
REVEALED! Contextual rendition of Romans 10:16-18 #biblestudy
https://youtube.com/shorts/feeD369ML5A?feature=share

sonmvayina:
Where is the devil presently living?

. I’m done here. Tired of baseless arguments not based of facts

MaxInDHouse:
There you go again!

When the Bible says the angles that sinned are in chains and dense darkness it simply means they're not granted access to information that other faithful angels have. So when the Bible says Satan will be bound and thrown in the abyss it simply means he will not be allowed to gain access to humans anymore.

Learn!

Max shut up and sleep. What you’re saying are just in your head. They’re not in the book. I know JW has its own bible, now that you have your own meaning to the bible, you should have your own Jesus by now and your own heaven and create your own people and your own God.

Now that’s it’s established that you don’t have a single bible verse that supports your idea that Satan is an angel, I think my work is done. Lie cannot continue to rule, even on Nairaland, we’ll check the rampage of lies flying around through minds like yours.

If ever you find that one verse in the bible. Do let me know. For now I’m leaving a baseless argument without an iota of fact. Especially now that you’ve made your subjective interpretation of the scriptures absolute. I don’t deal with such people.

To reiterate it, there’s no single verse of the bible that realistically supports your false belief that Satan is an angel. If you find just one, let me now. Bye for now, my work on this thread is done.

Re

sonmvayina:
We are talking about devil here..not man..

So come again..

Well for your people who are lost and confused about life, the devil is one powerful angel that you all fear bc he’s so powerful that he’ll destroy your life.

But for me, I know the bible says the devil is a man. So I talk about him as I’ll talk about the next man. There’s nothing powerful or special about him. What he was and lost, I have it in Christ, and I will even have more in the resurrection.

MaxInDHouse:
So the chain and dense of darkness here means they are restricted from certain things they love!

Satan is one of them!

Lol Satan that was roaming around and looking for people to devour is one of them? You’re confused walahi.

When satan becomes bound, there shall not be his activity for 1000 years.

Didn’t you read revelation? When satan becomes bound, he shall not do anything bc he’s bound. When satan went to heaven he was not bound, he was free and that’s why he went to heaven.

Kobojunkie:
Again, Don't give me your analysis. Simply point me to the passages where your conclusion comes from.

The whole Bible is my passage. Go and study the Bible and you’ll be fine.

Kobojunkie:
Don't give me your analysis. Simply point me to the passages where your conclusion comes from.

If you put a bright color before a blind man, he’ll still not be able to see it my dear friend. From his perspective, everything is dark. A person who has eyes and can see must describe what’s before him to him so he can conceptualise it.

When you’re ready to understand what is before you, I’ll be glad to explain dear friend.

You can also do an analysis of your own point, I do not mind. I’ll read it. But if you think I’ll let you make a mockery of the scripture by quoting like JW members without proper analysis then you’re on your own.