₦airaland Forum

JimRohn:
Dear Christian friends,

This is a sincere theological question intended for reflection, not provocation.

According to Trinitarian doctrine, Jesus is both fully God and fully man. Yet in the Gospels, we find that Jesus experiences hunger (Matthew 4:2), fatigue (John 4:6), ignorance (Mark 13:32), and even temptation by Satan (Matthew 4:1). These are unmistakable signs of human limitation.

However, God — by definition — is all-knowing, self-sufficient, and entirely above being tempted or weakened. As the Bible states:

> “God cannot be tempted by evil.” — James 1:13

If Jesus was truly God, how can he be tempted by Satan? If he is God, how can he not know the Day of Judgment? If he is God, how can he hunger or grow in wisdom (Luke 2:52)?

These are not small matters. They go to the very heart of what it means to be divine.

From the Islamic view, this confusion does not arise. God (Allah) is perfect, eternal, and absolutely free from human weaknesses. He does not become man. Jesus (peace be upon him) is honored as a prophet and messenger, born miraculously, but he is not divine. His mission was to call people to worship the One True God — not to claim divinity for himself.

So we ask respectfully:
If Jesus is fully God, how do you reconcile divine perfection with the human limitations he clearly experienced?

We invite you to reflect, and to consider whether pure monotheism — as taught by all prophets — offers a clearer and more consistent understanding of God's nature.

Tell me,
1. Does Allah need to eat?
2. Can Allah eat and still remain almighty?
3. Can Allah enter his creation and still remain almighty?
4. Does Allah die?
5. Can Allah die and still remain almighty?


Until you first demonstrate that Allah is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent. Your argument is based on gross ignorance as the Taoheed of Allah is exactly like the Taoheed of Iblis

I can tell you, because God is Trinity
1. God does not need to eat
2. YHWH can eat and still remain Almighty
3. YHWH can enter His creation and still remain Almighty
4. YHWH does NOT die
5. YHWH can diesel and still remain Almighty


You want a God so simple to comprehend like items in creation and you with Taoheed unconsciously put a physical limitation on him.

YHWH is unlike Anyone or Anything in creation.
Taoheed is a description of the oneness of created things.
Even human beings are higher in nature to your Taoheed.




Please answer these
If per chance it is possible for Allah to become a perfect man, do you think he would be able to feel all the senses a man would feel like warmth, cold, heat, pain etc or he would be lifeless?

If per chance it is possible for Allah to become a perfect man, will he reduce his attributes in our world or come with his full attributes as Allah?

Think!

JimRohn:
Thank you for your detailed reply. I appreciate the time and thought you've put into engaging with my original question. Allow me to respond in a structured and respectful manner, maintaining focus on the core issue: what did Jesus himself clearly and explicitly teach about the divinity of the Holy Spirit?

1. Clarifying the Scope of the Question

You admit that:

> "Jesus does not explicitly teach in the Gospels that the Holy Spirit is God or part of a triune Godhead in a direct, systematic statement."

I appreciate this honesty. It effectively concedes the central point of my question. If Jesus—according to the Gospels—never explicitly taught the doctrine of the Holy Spirit as divine or as part of a triune Godhead, then this remains a theological inference, not a direct teaching from Jesus.

As a Muslim, I find it essential that something as foundational as God's nature should be taught unambiguously by God's messenger. Ambiguity or reliance on later interpretation invites doctrinal confusion.

The bottom line is that
1. Every Jew already knew the Holy Spirit as the manifest Everpresent power of God.
2. Every Jew knew that The Holy Spirit is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent
3. Every Jew knew that the Holy Spirit is NOT an Angel
4. The purpose of Jesus is not to systematically explain Trinity BUT to give us Salvation
5. Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to every Believer as a Seal , as a Teacher and an ever-abiding Comforter.

Unfortunately, Islam attributes Jibril to be God the Holy Spirit. A clear error of ignorance.

Even the heretical JW doesn't think that the Holy Spirit is Jibril BUT an expression for the Power of God. No single Jew believe that the Holy Spirit is an Angel.

JimRohn:
2. Responding to the Verses You Cited

Let me briefly address the specific passages you've raised:

Matthew 12:31–32 – Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit

This passage demonstrates that the Holy Spirit is honored, but being honored or protected from a particular sin does not make one God. In the same Bible, you will find that prophets, the Ark of the Covenant, and even the Temple were treated with exceptional reverence—yet none of these are considered divine.

Furthermore, sinning against God's appointed messengers is serious, but it does not imply the messenger is divine. Islam, for example, holds that disrespecting Prophet Muhammad ﷺ is a grave sin, but this does not make him divine.

Matthew 28:19 – “In the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”

This verse is often used to support Trinitarian doctrine. However:

It still does not state that these three are one being or co-equal in divinity.

Saying "in the name of..." does not logically equate all the entities mentioned. For example, authority can be invoked in the name of a king, his general, and his law, without implying they are ontologically equal.

Notably, this verse does not come from Jesus during his ministry, but from a post-resurrection account. Many biblical scholars also question the authenticity of this specific formula, as it is absent from earlier Christian baptismal practices (e.g., Acts 2:38).

1. Does it make sense to you that EVERY sin against God has forgiveness EXCEPT Blasphemy against an Angel? Don't forget that Blasphemy against God is also a sin
2. You think it is Normal to associate the name of an Angel with the name of God?
3. So, post resurrection account isn't a real account exactly as your prophet's visit to heaven and seen post living account of Moses and the other prophets account.
You forgot that part of Allah's deception was to give a fake resurrected Jesus to the disciples so that they would believe that it was the real Jesus crucified.

You will need to prove explicitly that the Holy Spirit both in the Old testament and the New Testament is Jibril to convince even yourself, otherwise, you are in error.

JimRohn:
Genesis 1:2 and Job 26:13 – Spirit of God in the Old Testament

The Hebrew term ruach simply means “breath,” “wind,” or “spirit.” Saying “the Spirit of God moved upon the waters” does not mean this “spirit” is a separate, co-equal person of God. Jews reading the Old Testament for millennia never interpreted these verses as describing a divine person distinct from the Father.

Acts 5:3–4 – Lying to the Holy Spirit is Lying to God

Respectfully, this is Peter speaking—not Jesus. As noted earlier, I am asking for Jesus’ own teachings, not later apostolic interpretations. Even if Peter believed this, it still does not resolve the fact that Jesus never articulated the Trinity or the divinity of the Holy Spirit himself.

Also, in biblical language, to offend or lie to someone bearing God's authority (like a prophet or messenger) could be equated with lying to God—because they act on His behalf.

Yes, Spirit in Hebrew is synonymous to Air or Wind and it describes an entity that is unseen but exists because of his power to change things. And this is used as a Description for God's presence and power as you cannot see God but you feel and experience His power and presence.

Even Angels are made of spirit (Gods nature). Only that they are limited, thus the distinction "Holy Spirit" or "Spirit of God" representing the infinite God.

Does the spirit moving over the water mean that at creation, Jibril was moving over the waters?


So, In Islam, with evidence, what is the Spirit?

JimRohn:
3. Attributes and Functions: Divine by Nature or Delegation?

You cited the Holy Spirit as possessing divine attributes like omniscience and omnipotence. However:

These traits are attributed to the Spirit, not necessarily inherent to it. Scripture often uses metaphorical or functional language.

In Islam, we affirm that God can delegate powers to His messengers or angels. For example, Gabriel conveys divine revelation and knowledge—not because he is divine, but because he is entrusted with divine tasks.

To use functional roles (such as inspiring prophets or giving life) to prove ontological divinity is a theological assumption, not a textual certainty.

Just be truthful to yourself:
Is there any creature in Islam either Man, Angels, Animals, Jinn or things that has even one of the three attributes of Omnipresence, Omnipotence and Omniscience?

JimRohn:
4. On the Isamic View of the Holy Spirit
You asked:
> “Is there a single verse that calls Jibril the Holy Spirit?”

Yes. The Qur’an refers to Jibril (Gabriel) as the Holy Spirit (Rūḥ al-Qudus) in several places:
> “Say, the Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth.”
— Surah An-Nahl 16:102
Also:

> “We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs and supported him with the Holy Spirit.”
— Surah Al-Baqarah 2:87

These and other verses link the "Holy Spirit" with Jibril. In Islamic theology, this is not a confusion but a clarification: the "Rūḥ al-Qudus" is not a part of God, but a created being who conveys revelation.

Both Quran verses you quoted NEVER said anywhere that Jibril was the Holy Spirit. This was an assumption by interpolation of Muslim scholars in both Qur'an 16:192 and Qur'an 2:87 that spirit is Jibril.

Isn't it obvious to you? Is there a single verse that called Jibril the Holy Spirit in the Qur'an?

Secondly, with evidence from the Qur'an Are Angels Spirit in Islam?
Ps 104:4:
"Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:"

If angels are not spirits, how can Jibril be a spirit?

JimRohn:
Regarding your question on “Allah breathing into Adam,” the phrase "My Spirit" is an honorific expression, not a literal part of God. This is classical Arabic usage—just as the Ka‘bah is called “My House”, but no one believes God lives inside it.

No sir,
The phrase is copy of the bible which was misunderstood by Mohammed the Ummi.
Qur'an 15:29
"And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall down prostrating yourselves before him."

Qur'an 38:72
"So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall down to him prostrate."

Did Allah breathe Jibril into Adam?

JimRohn:
5. On Jesus Being a Spirit from God

Yes, the Qur’an refers to Jesus as “a spirit from Him”, meaning he was created by God's command—“Be” (kun)—not that he is divine. It’s a special designation reflecting honor, not divinity. The same Qur’an repeatedly and explicitly denies Jesus’ divinity (e.g., 5:72, 4:171).

So. We see that even though Mohammed didn't know what the spirit is AND Jibril was not stated by Allah to be a spirit, the only Spirit clearly stated in the Qur'an is Jesus. Forget about divinity!

How is Jesus who is a Man also a Spirit?
Who else did Allah explicitly describe as a spirit in the Qur'an.

Is this not a proof that your understanding is abysmal with respect to spiritual things?

Quran 10:94 says:
"So if you (O Muhammad) are in doubt concerning that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters."

But you refuse to ask, why wouldn't you mix up spiritual things?

JimRohn:
6. Conclusion
The bottom line remains:
You have acknowledged that Jesus never explicitly stated that the Holy Spirit is God or part of a triune being.

All other references you provided are interpretations, inferences, or statements from others — not the words of Jesus himself.

As a Muslim, I believe that the nature of God must be taught clearly and directly by His chosen messengers. If Jesus never taught the Trinity or the divinity of the Holy Spirit, then that doctrine does not come from him, but from others after him.

I invite you, with sincerity, to reconsider whether Jesus truly taught the theology that later became formalized in Church councils, or whether he consistently taught the worship of the One, indivisible God — as did all prophets before him.

Let us continue this dialogue with mutual respect and pursuit of truth.

Tell me the truth,
Is Christianity taken ONLY from Jesus or ALL the prophets of God including Jesus?

What is the two powers of heaven according to early Jewish Rabbis ?

How can you ask me to leave
1. The infinity Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient God for Allah who isn't .
Does Allah have the power to Enter his creation without creasing to be Almighty?
Can Allah be in heaven and the earth equally simultaneously?
2. Guarantee for paradise for a guarantee for at least a time in Hell Fire
Quran 19:71-72 says that ALL Muslims must enter hell as a decree of Allah at least temporarily
3. The Way and Truth for one who doesn't know what will befall him
Quran 46:9
"Say, 'I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am only a clear warner.'"
compared with
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."



Satanists are monotheistic (their God is satan)
Muslims are monotheistic (their God is Allah)
Judaism are monotheistic (their God is YHWH)
Christians are monotheistic (their God is YHWH)

Exodus 3:14-15
“God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM.’ And he said, ‘Say this to the people of Israel: I AM has sent me to you.’ God also said to Moses, ‘Say to the Israelites, “YHWH, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob— has sent me to you.” This is my name forever, the name you shall call me from generation to generation.’”

Mohammed seems not know that the name of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is YHWH!


Is any of Allah's 99 names YHWH?

JimRohn:
Kindly answer the following question based on your own theological doctrine:👇

Where did Jesus ever explicitly state that the Holy Spirit is God, or that the Holy Spirit is a person within a triune Godhead?

Please provide a direct and unambiguous statement from Jesus himself, not a later interpretation or theological inference, but a clear declaration in which Jesus defines the Holy Spirit as one of three co-equal, co-eternal persons of a triune deity.

BibleInterpreta TenQ gofh NairaLTQ

Until I know exactly what you mean by the Holy Spirit, there is no moving forward


If we are not referring to the SAME Holy Spirit, how can we be on the same page.

Who is the Holy Spirit according to Jesus?
Who is the Holy Spirit according to Allah or Mohammed?

Only then will any answers make any sense and not an exercise in futility!

Kobojunkie:
You didn't quote what it said. Rather, you twisted what it said.

?

Kemetian:
Many African countries have better living standards and better infrastructure than India.

Many parts of Nigeria are better than India.

I've no idea what makes them feel big when they see black folks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLGPS41bn6Q

I completely disagree.

Yes, India is a mix of the
Stinkingly Rich AND the Dreadfully Poor
The Upper Class AND the Lower Class
The Good AND the Bad
Affluence AND Poverty
Technology AND Brute Force

It is like using Maroko or Okokomaiko Slums to judge the whole of Nigeria.



It is ONLY in India that you will walk through a place like an Upper CLass Mall (like Mall of America, The Galleria, Aventura Mall etc) and exit a Door into the worst slums in the World with Cow excrement littering the ground and poverty distributed everywhere.

I guess this is why they say : "Incredible India"

Kobojunkie:
First of all, fibroids don't get worse with age since not all black women, even aged ones, get fibroids as they age. So, around claiming fibroids get worse with age is ignorance.

2. Fibroids are not over come by marrying girls off early. Your old age people lied to you. Even girls who have had children can also get fibroids. So marrying girls off early and causing them to have kids DOESN'T deter fibroids.

3. Fibroids doesn't necessarily stop a woman from getting pregnant. Many women with fibroids are still able to get pregnant..

4. None of these are truths! 😩😩😩😩

I quoted a journal of Medical science, they arent my words


Nearly a quarter of Black women between 18 and 30 have fibroids compared to about 6% of white women, according to some national estimates. By age 35, that number increases to 60%. Black women are also two to three times more likely to have recurring fibroids or suffer from complications
https://www.michiganmedicine.org/health-lab/understanding-racial-disparities-women-uterine-fibroids

Zocalite:
But you shouldn't have added 'it's the truth" to your comment

When you say it's the truth, then no variable added

Fibroid is a may happen, it only has risk factors

This is the truth, that
Statistically, Black women are more prone to having Fibroids than any other race in the world

You can confirm!



Nearly a quarter of Black women between 18 and 30 have fibroids compared to about 6% of white women, according to some national estimates. By age 35, that number increases to 60%. Black women are also two to three times more likely to have recurring fibroids or suffer from complications
https://www.michiganmedicine.org/health-lab/understanding-racial-disparities-women-uterine-fibroids

Kobojunkie:
Abeg, Get lost! 🙄🙄🙄

Who gave this one his certificate and made him a doctor abeg! All these quarks calling themselves doctors and experts.

Miss kobo,
Don't be emotional about this.
Statistically, Black women are more prone to having Fibroids than any other race in the world
Fibroids get worse with age especially over thirty years of age.

In the olden days, they overcame this by the girls marrying early (between 16 and 20 years): by the time Fibroid is setting in, they have already given birth to four/five children.




Of course, not every black woman will have fibroids, but its the truth!

JimRohn:
Your ignorance is only rivaled by your arrogance. You throw around verses and accusations like a blind man swinging in the dark, not realizing that your very Bible convicts you of hypocrisy.

> “You believed the lies of Muhammad!?”

No—I believe in the last and final Prophet of the One true God, the same God Jesus (peace be upon him) bowed to with his face on the ground. Meanwhile, you believe the lie that God became a man, bled, and died at the hands of His own creation, yet call that salvation? You worship a crucified man and then dare accuse others of believing lies?

Let’s dissect your sanctimonious list with your own book:

> What did Jesus teach about prayer?

He prayed like a Muslim:

“And he fell on his face and prayed” (Matthew 26:39).

When was the last time you fell on your face before God? Or do you pray like pagans—singing, dancing, and clapping?

Here are Buddhists aka Muslims praying

[img]https://buddhism.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/pic1-300x200.jpg[/img]

[img]https://mysakonnakhon.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Buddhist-Prayer-Beads-with-Monk-1125x798.jpg.webp[/img]

Indeed, if this is how you pray, Buddhists are Muslims

JimRohn:
> What did Jesus teach about marriage?
He upheld the law:
“Think not that I came to abolish the law...” (Matthew 5:17).
That law allowed polygyny (multiple wives), which you now label immoral. So is Jesus immoral or are you just dishonest?
> What did Jesus teach about giving to God?
He taught sincerity:
“Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing” (Matthew 6:3).
Meanwhile, your modern churches have turned giving into a tax scam and a business, pimping Jesus for profit.
> What did Jesus teach about neighbors?
He said love them. Yet your countries have bombed entire Muslim nations, killing neighbors by the millions. Do you mean “love thy neighbor” or “drone thy neighbor”?
> What did Jesus teach about forgiveness?
He said to forgive—but you demand blood for sin! You don’t actually believe in God’s mercy. You believe He needs to watch someone die before He can forgive.

Did you notice how shamelessly you went into the "corrupt bible' to pick on what you thought Jesus taught?
Tell use what Jesus taught!

Unfortunately, we don't even know who ISA is: as definitely Isa cannot be Jesus the Christ!

JimRohn:
> What did Jesus teach about the Holy Spirit?

According to your own confusion, it’s either God, not God, or a person. Which one is it? The truth: the Holy Spirit is Jibreel (Gabriel), a mighty angel, not “God the Bird” floating around with dove wings.
Now to your real problem: the Qur’an destroys the lie of the trinity.

The Question was: What did Jesus teach about the Holy Spirit?

JimRohn:
> “No Christian says Allah is the third of three!”
Really? Then why is your Nicene Creed a trinitarian formula of “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—one God in three Persons”? That is three persons = one god, a math problem no prophet ever preached.

Did the Trinitarian formula according to you thinking mean God, Son and Holy Spirit!?
OR
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

JimRohn:
Qur’an 5:73:
> “They are disbelievers who say: Allah is one of three…”

Stop lying. The Qur’an rebukes your false doctrines before you even open your mouth.

So, the simple challenge is for you to find us any sect (even heretic) of Christians who say God is the Third of THREE?

JimRohn:
> “If Allah is the third of three, who are the other two?”

That’s the point. He’s not. Allah says He is One, indivisible, without partner, child, or mother. Your confused theology is being exposed by divine revelation. Don't try to mock the Qur’an when it is exposing your pagan formulations.

Can't you answer a direct Question!
“If Allah is the third of three, who are the other two?”

JimRohn:
Now your most blasphemous claim:

> “There is no difference between Tawheed of Allah and Tawheed of Satan.”
Congratulations. You've crossed the line into full-blown kufr (disbelief). Satan never taught Tawheed, he taught rebellion. It is your trinity that resembles Satanic doctrine—dividing God into pieces, confusing people, and inviting them to worship the creation.

How many Iblis exist in the Universe?
Is he not ONE: just as Allah is ONE!?

There is not difference!

JimRohn:
> “Tawheed means Allah is not omnipresent, omnipotent, or omniscient”

False. Tawheed affirms that Allah is absolutely omnipotent, all-knowing, and perfectly aware of everything. Your confusion arises because you think God must be physically inside creation to know about it—how small is your god?

Our Lord does not need to incarnate into a man, urinate, or be crucified to demonstrate power or knowledge. That’s your weakness, not ours.

Does Allah descend every third part of the Night to the lowest heaven listen to the prayers of you Muslims or not?
Is Allah not on his throne upon the waters which is above the seven heavens or not?

The implication of these two is that Allah is NOT Omnipresent sir!

It is a painful pill to swallow, but is it is the truth

JimRohn:
Final word:

If the Spirit of Truth were in you, you’d recognize Islam is the continuation and completion of the message of Jesus—who was a prophet, a servant, and a slave of God. But you’ve replaced monotheism with man-worship and then dared to mock those who call to the original message.

If Islam is a continuation, why do you reject the scriptures of the Jews and Christians?
Why is it that you do NOT know the purpose of the Messiah?
Why is it that you kiss the Blackstone against the law of Moses and Christ Jesus?
Why is it that islam is cascade of lies from the beginning to the end.

Sorry, you want to believe this , but it is a false religion that takes you straight to hell fire!

Islam is an amalgamation of several religions of the Jews, the Christians, the Sabeans, the Meccan Idolaters, the Buddhists etc.

JimRohn:
> “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free” (John 8:32)

The truth is La ilaha illAllah. There is no god but Allah. And Muhammad ﷺ is His final messenger.

You can mock, but your words only prove your defeat. Keep quoting the Bible—it buries your false creed deeper with every verse.

This is exactly why God never spoke once to Mohammed as other prophets of Old.

Allah has 99 names,
Is the name of the God of Mohammed or you Muslims YHWH?

JimRohn:
Why you people refuse to answer this question 👇

Where did Jesus ever say the Holy Spirit is God or part of a triune being?
Answer: Nowhere.

TenQ gofh NairaLTQ

If we are not referring to the SAME Holy Spirit, how can we be on the same page.

Who is the Holy Spirit according to Jesus?
Who is the Holy Spirit according to Allah or Mohammed?

Only then will any answers make any sense and not an exercise in futility!

NairaLTQ:
Hello JimRohn :

The Nairaland Placed me under ban for the posts below. So, here it is again!

Don't skip this o Mr JimRohn

gohf:
not surprised Quran actually means recitation, it's probably why they recite it and not teach it, unlike the Torah that means teaching and instruction. It wasn't meant to be taught nor explain but recited and accepted as a saying that even they can't explain.

The problem is that as long as they have put their recitals in books, they should be able to present them as a permanent record.

After all, they now depend not on RECITATIONS but on WRITINGS of their Qur'an.

What are Muslims hiding from the world?

The Qur'an of Mohammed (7 Ahruf)
The Qur'an of Abubakar
The Qur'an of Uthman

This was why the resorted to making extant copies of the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs and not even as a COPY of any of their ORIGINALS.

They collected and wrote the Qur'an because recitations was failing them.

JimRohn:
It is not productive to respond to questions with more questions, especially when the same inquiries are being repeated multiple times.

If there is no intention to engage in a meaningful exchange, please let us know if you would prefer to end this conversation.

Sorry, the Questions are extremely important.

If we are not referring to the SAME Holy Spirit, how can we be on the same page.

Who is the Holy Spirit according to Jesus?
Who is the Holy Spirit according to Allah?

Only then will any answers make any sense and not an exercise in futility!

gohf:
not surprised Quran actually means recitation, it's probably why they recite it and not teach it, unlike the Torah that means teaching and instruction. It wasn't meant to be taught nor explain but recited and accepted as a saying that even they can't explain.

So, since the Qur'an was written down and collected, where are the originals.
Who hid the book of Allah?
Could it be that the Qur'an was not entrusted to anyone?

Even though, you despise the Truth, maybe you should read these posts

https://www.nairaland.com/8058950/what-wrong-abubakars-quran-perfect

https://www.nairaland.com/8161547/evidence-ancient-qurans-different-modern

And for your word for word lies they told you, I will just show you a few perfect recitations of the Qur'an of Hafs and Warsh

https://www.nairaland.com/8163435/see-evidences-differences-warsh-quran

JimRohn:
➡️ Where did Jesus ever say the Holy Spirit is God or part of a triune being?
Answer: Nowhere. Before I can answer the new question.

TenQ gofh NairaLTQ

So that we are on the same page

Who is the Holy Spirit according to Jesus?
Who is the Holy Spirit according to Allah?

gohf:
wow you are tenq. Us expecting jimrohn to be forthright might just be a waste of time, I wish he or better still any truthful Muslim would answer this questions. Especially where is the original Quran text, the very first one.

jimrohn thinks that re-asserting his noises make him correct unfortunately, he isn't willing to think of the consequences of his claims.

gohf:
Seeing as unlike the Bible they claim doesn't have an original copy, surely they have their don't they.

They don't even have copies of copies of copies of the Uthmanic Qur'an. This is why they have to rely on the recitation of the Qur'an according to Hafs (and NOT a copy of the Qur'an of Uthman) who they all agree to be a fraud and a thief. The Hafs recitation of the Qur'an was made the standard text officially in 1924 with the publication of the Cairo edition under the patronage of Fuad I of Egypt.

Prior to this, there were several dozens of conflicting Arabic Qur'ans.

gohf:
From your exchange with jimrohn I have become confused as to if Muhammad could write or not, at first he said he couldn't but then he said being illiterate doesn't mean he couldn't write but that he wasn't educated in scripture, so therefore we should see it has a miracle that scripture came from him.

Mohammed could indeed read and write even though he had secretaries who wrote for him

https://www.nairaland.com/7805486/another-lie-islam-mohammed-sold

gohf:
I also noticed he did not deny that abubaka and uthman wrote in the Quran, I also asked some informed arabs online and they confirmed what you wrote.

This question you have posed is highly relevant, where is the original Quran text?

All the Qur'ans are missing.
The Qur'an of Mohammed (7 Ahruf)
The Qur'an of Abubakar
The Qur'an of Uthman

This was why the resorted to using the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs.

JimRohn:
You ask: “How do you know what Jesus preached?”

We know what Jesus (ʿĪsā عليه السلام) preached because Allah told us in the Qur’an, not from the council-edited confusion you call a Bible. Your Bible was tampered with by men — ours is preserved by God.

Jesus preached Tawheed — pure monotheism — and that’s exactly what the Qur’an affirms:

> "Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path."
— Qur’an 3:51

You believed the lies of Mohammed!?

What did Jesus teach about Prayers?
What did Jesus teach about Marriage?
What did Jesus teach about Giving to God?
What did Jesus teach about your Neighbours?
What did Jesus teach about Forgiveness?
What did Jesus teach about Faith?
What did Jesus teach about the Holy Spirit?

Please tell me, I am all ears!

JimRohn:
This is word-for-word what Jesus would have said — and it's the exact opposite of the Trinity lie you inherited from Rome, not from Christ.

You ask: “How did Jesus describe the Holy Spirit?”

Let’s turn the question around:

➡️ Where did Jesus ever say the Holy Spirit is God or part of a triune being?
Answer: Nowhere.

In your own Bible, Jesus calls the Spirit a Helper, not God (John 14:16–17). A helper is not equal to the One who sends him.

Jesus never preached your man-made “third person of the Trinity” fiction. That’s a Roman invention, not divine revelation.

Is God not our helper?
Matthew 12:31-32
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Who is the Holy Spirit?

JimRohn:
You ask: “What is Trinity according to Allah?”
Simple.
> "They have certainly disbelieved who say, 'Allah is the third of three.'"
— Qur’an 5:73
In Islam, the “Trinity” is rejected outright as a man-made shirk (polytheism). Allah is One, not three-in-one — not a partnership, not a divine committee.

Allah is WRONG with this Question. 0/100

Not one Christian say Allah is the third of three!

If Allah is the Third of THREE, who are the other TWO according to the Quran?

JimRohn:
You ask: “What is Trinity according to Christians?”
That’s the funniest part. Christians themselves don’t agree on it.
Some say God = Father + Son + Holy Spirit, “co-equal” and “co-eternal.”
Others say the Son is begotten but not created.
Still others say they’re not three gods but “one essence in three persons.”

How can you lie to yourself and be at peace except the spirit of lies dwell richly in you?
If Allah cannot define the trinity correctly, how much more his slaves!

JimRohn:
It's philosophical spaghetti — not scripture. Even your Bible never uses the word "Trinity" — not once. It was invented centuries after Jesus, at the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE, under a pagan emperor.

Jesus never taught this nonsense. You worship a church doctrine, not the God of Jesus.
You ask: “What is the difference between the Tawheed of Allah and the Tawheed of Satan?”
Now this is pure foolishness — and blasphemy.

Taoheed is in the Quran!?
I saw it yesterday!

There is NO difference between the Taoheed of Allah and the Taoheed of Satan.
Not one difference!

JimRohn:
Let me educate you since you clearly don’t know the difference between Divine Monotheism and demonic lies:

⚔️ Tawheed of Allah:

Pure, indivisible Oneness of God.

No partners, no sons, no images, no idols.

Worship Allah alone, without mediators.

Exactly like satan!

JimRohn:
The creed of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad — all upon them be peace.

🔥 “Tawheed” of Satan? That’s your Trinity:

A fake god-man-spirit trio.

A “son” born of a woman, yet called God.

A god that dies, then comes back, yet is eternal.

Worshiping a human being who ate, slept, bled, and cried — and then calling that man “the Creator.”

That’s not monotheism — that’s idolatry.

Even Satan wouldn’t dare ascribe a son to God. That’s your work.

> “And they say, ‘The Most Merciful has taken a son.’ You have said a monstrous thing."
— Qur’an 19:88–89

🔚 Final Word:

You come to Muslims quoting a Book that:

Was written decades after Jesus,

Was edited, censored, and corrupted,

Contains contradictions, pagan inserts, and forged epistles,

Yet you think you’re qualified to question the Qur’an?

Jesus (ʿalayhi as-salām) worshipped One God. You worship a man, call him God, then pretend that’s what Jesus taught?

You’ve inherited a false creed and you’re too arrogant to admit it.

Tawheed is the truth of all Prophets. Trinity is the lie of church councils.

Pick your side.


BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh honesttalk21

The implication of the Taoheed is terribly against Allah
Taoheed means that Allah is NOT Omnipresent
Taoheed means that Allah is NOT Omnipotent
Taoheed means that Allah is NOT Omniscient

This is a serious problem!

honesttalk21:
Perhaps you should first clarify if it's إلا or إِلَه you are referring to




To put all your expose in perspective please tell if demons exist and where they originate from.

We will take it from there.

Is it untrue that Allah mean God in Arabic?
Do you deny the relationship between Allah/Illah (Arabic) , El-oah (Hebrew) and Elah (Aramaic) ?


And I have answered your questions
Demons exist
Demons originate from the spirits of nephilims

Hello JimRohn :
Continuation C

mach7:
This is escalating seriously.

There are things to be said, but I am just to tired to say it.

Russia has fought and is fighting an enemy that is very deceptive, very disingenuous, and very snakelike. That enemy is the collective west who are using Ukraine as a proxy.

I will be a realist and admit, Russia will not be able to win. Not because they don't have the ability, but because they don't have the will.

A lot of things that Ukraine has done, if 1% of it was done against the USA, nuclear bombs will have been released a long time ago.

When will you stop this nonsense rhetoric about the West against Russia when you know that USA through Trump is a puppet of Putin!

honesttalk21:
Spare the pointless back and forth. And say what they mean in Arabic. You aren't as confident of your Arabic language proficient expertise now?

Allah mean God in Arabic!

What does Illah mean in Arabic?

Again:
Do you deny the relationship between Allah/Illah (Arabic) , El-oah (Hebrew) and Elah (Aramaic) ?

honesttalk21:
Did you not argue that angels cannot take another form?
Yada yada yada, forgetful Jones Tenq forgot what he said

Can you quote wherever I said ANGELS cannot take up physical forms?

To you, Angels are Demons!?
I shake my head.

I said :
3.Demons cannot take up physical forms

In the bible, only Angels can take up physical forms but a blind bat will read otherwise!


So you know any instance where demons took up a physical shape in the bible?

honesttalk21:
You start on a wrong note. Allah and Illah aren't related so your statement is all rubbish.

Allah mean God in Arabic!

What does Illah mean in Arabic?

Again:
Do you deny the relationship between Allah/Illah (Arabic) , El-oah (Hebrew) and Elah (Aramaic) ?

honesttalk21:
Fallen Angels are the rebellious heavenly beings. Nephilim are the children of those beings and human women.

Now that you answer one of your previous questions. Did the fallen angels take the form of man to propagate with the daughters of man?

The fallen angel demons beget nephillim demons.

Did the fallen angels take the form of man to propagate with the daughters of man?
Just as Jibril came to Mary as a perfect man!

Most likely!
Gen 6:2:
"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

honesttalk21:
The basic thing you don't see is Allah is entirely different from Ilah or however you spell it. Not just in form alone, but in essence.

However similar these words may sound it is not beyond that in actuality.

This was not the question

Do you deny the relationship between Allah/Illah (Arabic) , El-oah (Hebrew) and Elah (Aramaic) ?

JimRohn:
Your entire argument collapses under the weight of its own contradictions and ignorance. So let me dismantle your claims piece by piece.

> "According to you the Torah which the Quran mentions several times and which Jesus confirmed is corrupted..."

Yes, and not according to me, but according to the Quran itself. Allah says:
> "So woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, then say, 'This is from Allah,' to trade it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."
[Surah Al-Baqarah 2:79]

Who are those who write a book with their hands and say it is from Allah?
Are these people not Abubakar and Uthman?

Did they not write a book each and say it is from Allah?

Where was the Qur'an of Mohammed?



It is a miracle that you disbelieve Allah to believe your own lies.

I challenge you to find just one verse of the Qur'an that says that the Torah or Injeel are corrupted.

Interestingly, Allah says the exact opposite.

JimRohn:
This verse directly condemns human tampering of divine scripture. So your attempt to weaponize Quranic references to the Torah against the Quran only exposes your inability to grasp what you're quoting.

When I tell you that you disbelieve your Allah for the opinion of fake scholars, you will nod your head in disbelief.

Is the original Torah and Injeel the Books of Allah containing his words?

Qur'an 6:115
"And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing."


Please, tell me how the words of Allah failed as humans were able to corrupt Allah's words.

JimRohn:
Yes, the Torah was originally a divine revelation. But no, the current version held by Jews and Christians is not that same original revelation. That’s why the Quran affirms the Torah in its original form, but also criticizes those who altered it.

Tell me why Allah couldn't protect his own books.

Did Allah make a mistake by entrusting the Torah to the Rabbi's for keeping?

Quran 5:44
Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allāh] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allāh, and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price [i.e., worldly gain]. And whoever does not judge by what Allāh has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.

JimRohn:
> "Who edited the Quran you are quoting? Was it angels? 😂"

No editing needed. Unlike your corrupted scriptures, the Quran was orally revealed, memorized by thousands, and written down meticulously during the lifetime of the Prophet ﷺ — and then compiled by the Companions under the Caliph Abu Bakr and finalized under Uthman (رضي الله عنهم). So yes, angels brought it, and Allah promised to preserve it Himself:

> "Indeed, We sent down the Dhikr (the Quran), and indeed, We will be its Guardian."
[Surah Al-Hijr 15:9]

So laugh all you want — but you're laughing at Allah’s guarantee, not mine. That’s a war you won’t win.

> "Even the Quran 5:3 you cut out off, doesn't support your point that the Quran is self sufficient 🤣🤣"

Unfortunately, the Qur'an is the most corrupt book on earth
Let me show you
a. No Muslim has a copy of the Qur'an of Mohammed and a Tame Sheep ate part of it.
Till today,
-the verse of Rajam was eaten up by the sheep
-the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times is missing.
b. Abubakar compiled his own Qur'an afresh with missing verses again.
c. Instead of duplicating Abubakar's Qur'an, Uthman made his own copies adding verse he thought should be added to Abubakar's Qur'an.
d. Ibn Masud has a different Qur'an from Uthmans Qur'an.
e. The Sahabas say that much of the Qur'an is lost
f. Mohammed received 7 Ahruf of the Qur'an. Today, we cannot find just one out of the seven Ahruf. If you know their names show me.
g. Who authorized the reshuffling of the chapters and verses of the Qur'an.

Qur'an 5:13
But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

Tell me, how the order of the verses in the Qur'an were changed like Qur'an 5:13?

Sorry sir!
Either you were fooled by Islamic scholars or you refuse the truth.

I challenge you on any of these should you desire proofs.

JimRohn:
Clearly you didn’t even read 5:3 properly:

> "This day I have perfected for you your religion, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
[Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:3]

Perfected. Completed. Chosen.
What part of that don’t you understand? When a system is perfected, you don’t need to go backward to corrupted texts for confirmation or guidance. The Quran supersedes all prior scriptures. That’s not my claim — that’s explicit revelation.

I laugh in Swahili!
Can you tell me why Quran 5:3 is not the last verse in the Qur'an either by revelation or by recitation.

If your religion was complete by the revelation of Qur'an 5:3, what was the reason for the later revelation?

Can you see how Illogical the verses of the Qur'an are!

JimRohn:
> "Now you're responding that Muhammad had no knowledge of the previous [books]..."

Exactly. And that’s part of the miracle. The Prophet Muhammad ﷺ was unlettered (ummi) — he couldn’t read or write, and he didn’t have access to Jewish or Christian scripture. Yet he brought a book that corrects their errors, exposes their corruptions, and establishes eternal guidance. That’s not “ignorance,” that’s divine revelation.

So, you swallowed this lie by your scholars!?
SMH!
Mohammed can both read and write. If you need evidence, I will shown you from your Hadiths.

An Ummi is not an illiterate person, he is one who is not verses in the scriptures. Just like a Lawyer is said to be a Learned person, so it is with an Ummi. It doesn't mean that the others are illiterates.

Did Allah not define who an Ummi is!? Should I teach you?

Qur'an 2:78
"And among them are Ummiyyun who do not know the Scripture except [empty] wishes."

People who do not know the scripture are the Ummi dear

JimRohn:
> "Does the Quran not refer to the Torah and encourages Muslims to check it for guidance..."

No, the Quran refers to the original revelation, not the mutilated versions preserved by priests and rabbis. You're cherry-picking without context. When the Quran speaks about previous scriptures, it is acknowledging their original divine origin — not affirming the distorted versions in your hands today.

Muslims can tell lies for Africa.
a. Show me just one verse where Allah says he refers to the previous scriptures
b. Please, when Mohammed placed his hands on the Torah and said "I believe in the and the one who sent thee..." Was he telling lies?
c. Why did Allah tell Mohammed to ask the people of the corrupt book if he had issues with the revelations he was having ?

Qur'an 10:94
"So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about what We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you..."

Is this wisdom or stupidity?

JimRohn:
In fact, the Quran warns us not to be fooled:

> "And indeed, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book."
[Surah Aal-Imran 3:78]

So when Jesus is said to “confirm the Torah,” it refers to the original revelation, not your modern redacted editions full of contradictions, incest, anthropomorphism, and tribal bias.

In conclusion:

The Quran is self-sufficient and final. It abrogates prior scriptures.

The Torah and Gospel were divine, but no longer exist in their original form.

You appeal to corrupt texts to attack a book you clearly haven't studied.

The Quran speaks with divine clarity. Your argument speaks with desperation and confusion.

So the next time you try to mock the Quran with memes and emojis, bring something stronger than laughter and misquotations. You’re punching up — and it shows.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

You have indeed mocked the Qur'an my dear as a book full of errors and contradictions that makes the wise blush with shame.

Otherwise, tell us
1. Does the sun set in some murky waters?
Allah and your prophet thinks so!
2. Do sperms become babies?
Allah and your prophet thinks so!



If you have questions, Furnish me one at a time as you have have swallowed a LIE of the Al-Makr the best Deceiver!

honesttalk21:
Regardless of your inferences the term "Lah" (لاه) doesn't really have a place in classical Arabic as a standalone noun or verb that conveys any divine meanings.

Its absence from the Qur'an, Hadith, and classical poetry highlights that it isn't recognized in theological discussions or the literary traditions of the Arabic language.

This lack of mention suggests that any claims about its importance are likely unfounded.

So to maintain linguistic accuracy and respect for sacred texts, it's essential to stick with established terminology that reflects the rich heritage of Arabic scholarship.

I noticed a trend with you.
You avoid posts that require theological debates for simpler ones

Do you deny the relationship between Allah/Illah (Arabic) , El-oah (Hebrew) and Elah (Aramaic) ?

It's most disheartening and disappointing that you rely on very little knowledge to generalize and extremely wrongly. Is it part of your mischief? Please go back to study correctly.

While Arabic, Hebrew, and Aramaic are all part of the Semitic language family and trace their roots back to a common ancestor known as Proto-Semitic, they have each developed into unique, independent languages.

This evolution is the result of various factors, including geography, historical events, sociopolitical changes, and linguistic shifts.

Around 4,000 to 5,000 years ago, Proto-Semitics began to branch out into different regional dialects.

All three languages—Arabic, Hebrew, and Aramaic—fall under the Central Semitic category, but they took distinct paths after their divergence.

Due to their physical separation, each language group evolved independently, influenced by different neighboring cultures (like Akkadian in Mesopotamia, Egyptian in Canaan, and Ethiopian/South Arabian in Arabia).

As a result, each language developed its own unique religious, literary, and political roles.

Despite sharing some roots and structures (such as triliteral roots), they have each evolved over the centuries:

- Arabic boasts a complex system of derived verb forms.

- Aramaic has developed participle-based verb tenses.


- Biblical Hebrew features its own unique tense-aspect system (perfect/imperfect).

When it comes to verb systems:

- Arabic has that rich array of derived verb forms.

- Aramaic focuses on participle-based verb tenses.

- Biblical Hebrew stands out with its unique tense-aspect system (perfect/imperfect).

After more than 2,000 years of divergence, modern speakers of Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic find it challenging to understand one another without some study, even though they share cognates.

For example:

- Arabic: “kitāb” (book)
- Hebrew: “sefer”
- Aramaic: “safra”

Do you not see Arabic word for book distinctly different from Hebrew and Aramaic?

These languages are like siblings who grew up in different homes—sharing the same DNA (grammar, roots) but shaped by their own unique environments, cultures, and histories. That’s why, despite being part of the same family, they have evolved independently.

So take your weak generalisation to the dump where it belongs.

Your argument is plainly feeble!

The fact that Aramaic influences Hebrew and Arabic does not mean that they must be a word for word equivalence in words.
Just like, Latin, German Arabic influences English language but it doesn't mean that they must be the same.

So, just as German "Gott" influenced English "God" we have to see how those who influenced Arabic like the Aramaic EL-, AL- and IL- is used.

Do you deny the relationship between Allah/Illah (Arabic) , El-oah (Hebrew) and Elah (Aramaic) ?