₦airaland Forum

Honesttalk21 and CreativeOrbit

Explore2xmore:
It’s unfortunate that there seems to be a misunderstanding regarding the preservation of the Qur’an. Allow me to clarify the matter:

1. Preservation Does Not Mean Every Revelation Was Included

The presence of abrogation or references to lifted verses does not compromise the perfection of the Quran’s preservation. Rather, it affirms that the Qur’an was preserved exactly as Allah intended through divine selection of what should remain recited and recorded, and what was to be lifted. The Prophet pbuh personally oversaw this process, instructing where each verse belonged.

It’s important to distinguish between different forms of revelation:

Qur’an (recited revelation )– Recited as scripture.
Hadith Qudsi – Sacred but not part of the Qur’an.
Abrogated Verses – Once revealed, then lifted.

The Prophet pbuh received many revelations, but not all were meant for permanent inclusion in the Qur’an. As Imām al-Qarāfī noted in al-Furūq, preservation was never about including every revealed word, but preserving what Allah intended to endure.

1. This seems like an excuse invented centuries after Mohammed to explain away evidences that verses were omitted from the present Quran.
2. Can you give me any evidence where Mohammed or Jibril said a verse should be recited but such verse is not supposed to be the final Qur'an.
3. We're such verses included in the Qur'an of Allah in paradise or the Qur'an on earth is a summary?
4. Who is Imām al-Qarāfī and when was he born?

Sorry,
It seems a Muslim moderator is deleting my posts, so I have to break this up into small bits. Let's see if he will delete four posts at once

Seun,
I want to make a report of a Muslim admin in the religion section deleting posts he doesn't like ad if it was a bot.

It has become a common occurrence especially for my posts.

It is an intellectual fraud for such to be happening. I don't know why a Muslim admin as administrative power over content in the Christian section of Nairaland

An example is:

https://www.nairaland.com/8448350/jimrohn-say-quran-perfectly-preserved/6#135837319


It was deleted after three other posts were made.

Thank you

CreativeOrbit:
Your agreement in principle is noted, but the justification you present for denying Iran its right to a nuclear deterrent lacks consistency and fairness. If the mere suspicion or rhetoric of a government is enough to deny a sovereign state access to defensive capabilities, then the same standard must apply universally—including to Israel.

Israel has not only possessed nuclear weapons for decades but has also refused to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), unlike Iran, which is a signatory and has allowed inspections under the IAEA framework. Moreover, Israel has engaged in preemptive wars, assassinations of scientists, and occupation of foreign land—concrete actions, not just rhetoric.

If your concern is Iran’s alleged threat to Israel's existence, then the solution is not selective disarmament but rather establishing a nuclear-free zone in the Middle East—a proposal historically supported by Iran but rejected by Israel.

Finally, it is dangerous to justify the monopolization of nuclear arms in the hands of one state, especially in a volatile region, based on hypothetical threats. That logic leads to a world where power, not principle, determines legitimacy. Peace and stability demand fairness—not double standards.

1. I believe nuclear weapons shouldn't be a monopoly of a few countries like USA, Russia, China or Israel
2. I also strongly believe that any country that has vowed to eliminate or wipeout another country based on ideological differences should be prevented from having it.

Except for North Korea, I don't know any other nuclear power nation that had vowed or threatened to erase another country with their nuclear weapons except Iran.

Israel has nuclear weapons but have they threatened any country with it? Are countries afraid of France, Britain, China or USA because they have nuclear weapons?

Pakistan is an Islamic country but they pose no existential threat to any neighbouring countries.

Is the problem of Iran because they are Shia Muslims? Even Saudi Arabia is AFRAID of Iran.

Before another zealous Muslim admin delete it again. SMH!


Explore2xmore, Honesttalk21 and CreativeOrbit
Just to correct you with more EVIDENCES: the admin deleted from my post.
PART TWO:

3. Ibn Mas’ud’s Statement on Missing Surahs

Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah 7/197-198
Abdullah ibn Mas’ud said:
"What we recite as a single surah (in the Mushaf) would (originally) be as long as Surah al-Baqarah."


This suggests that some parts of the Qur’an were much longer before being reduced or abrogated.

4. Hadith on the "Two Surahs" That Were Lost

Sahih Muslim 2289
Narrated by Abu Musa al-Ash’ari:
"We used to recite a surah similar in length and severity to Surah Bara’ah (At-Tawbah), but I have forgotten it except for a single verse : 'If the son of Adam had two valleys of wealth, he would seek a third, and nothing fills the belly of the son of Adam except dust...'"


This confirms that some surahs or verses were once part of the Qur’an but are no longer preserved in the Mushaf.



5. Zaid ibn Thabit’s Statement on Missing Verses

Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah 10/519
Zaid ibn Thabit said:
"We used to recite a verse that was revealed concerning the struggle in the way of Allah, but it is not found now: 'Strive in the way of Allah with a striving that is due to Him.'"


This further prove that some Qur’anic revelations were lost over time. Yet you claim perfect preservation!

Explore2xmore, Honesttalk21 and CreativeOrbit
Just to correct you with more EVIDENCES: the admin deleted from my post.
PART ONE:

1. Hadith About Lost Verses (Including the Stoning Verse)

Sahih al-Bukhari 6829, Sahih Muslim 1691
Narrated by 'Umar ibn al-Khattab:
"Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Book to him. Among what Allah revealed was the Verse of the Stoning, so we recited it, understood it, and acted upon it. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) stoned (adulterers), and we stoned after him. I fear that with the passage of time, someone will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of Stoning in the Book of Allah,' thus they will go astray by abandoning an obligation that Allah revealed."

This shows that some verses, like the Rajm (stoning) verse, were once part of the Qur’an but are no longer present in the compiled text.

Yet, your Qur'an is preserved!?

2. Hadith About the "Suckling Verse" (Ayah al-Rada’ah)


Sahih Muslim 1452, Sunan Abu Dawud 2062
Narrated by 'Aisha:
"Among what was revealed of the Qur’an was 'ten known sucklings' (to establish mahram relations), then it was abrogated by 'five known sucklings.' When the Prophet (ﷺ) passed away, this was among what was recited of the Qur’an."


This indicates that some verses related to rulings were later abrogated and removed from the Qur'an after the death of Mohammed.

Explore2xmore:
Yes I agree with you.
You clearly showed him that

You definitely delight in fooling yourselves as Muslims. The things I firstly showed him are the exact things you said he showed me!?

Explore2xmore:
1. Jam‘ al-Qur’an refers to both the memorization and the written compilation of the Quran.

A. So, where are the SEVEN Ahruf of Mohammed if the Qur'an is perfectly preserved?
B. Of the Qur'an of Mohammed written on pieces of clothes, where were they when Abubakar was collecting his Qur'an?
C. Is the Qur'an of Abubakar (by recitation) IDENTICAL to the Qur'an of Mohammed (according to recitation)?

Explore2xmore:
2. The Prophet pbuh had scribes who recorded verses during his lifetime.

A. Was the Qur'an of Ibn Mas'ud identical to the Qur'an of Abubakar?
B. Was the Qur'an of Ubayy identical to the Qur'an of Abubakar?

But these are the best reciters Mohammed commanded you to take Qur'an from?

Explore2xmore:
3. Abū Bakr’s team followed strict guidelines, requiring written proof and two witnesses for verification.

A. Take the Qur'an from FOUR was the command of your prophet: why did you disobey clear instruction from your prophet.
B. If the Qur'an of Abubakar was perfect, why was the Qur'an of Uthman collected afresh?
C. Since the Qur'an of Abubakar was different from the Qur'an of Uthman, which of the two Qur'an is IDENTICAL by recitation to the Qur'an recited by Mohammed?

Explore2xmore:
4. ʿUthmān focused on standardizing the dialect, not altering the content.

A. So, apart from dialectical differences, was the Qur'an of Abubakar IDENTICAL to the Qur'an of Uthman?

Explore2xmore:
5. The Qur’an has been preserved through widespread memorization and manuscripts, with no changes to its doctrine.

A. If the Qur'an is identical through widespread memorisation, where is the verse of stoning (Rajam) of adulterers in the Qur'an?
B. If the Qur'an is identical through widespread memorisation, where is the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times (later abrogated to five times in the Qur'an) in the Qur'an?
C. The recitation of your best reciter was left out, yet your Qur'an is perfectly preserved!?
Sahih al-Bukhari 5005
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
`Umar said, Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave some of what he recites.' Ubai says, 'I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Messenger and will not leave for anything whatever." But Allah said "None of Our Revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We substitute something better or similar." Quran 2.106

Explore2xmore:
6. There are no lost surahs, no additions, and no editing councils involved.

A. Until you find for us the verses of Rajam in your Qur'an for us
B. Until you show us the verses of breastfeeding an adult man ten times (later abrogated to five)

Explore2xmore:
No other scripture boasts this level of preservation. Let’s be real about the evidence.

Only in Islam would they tell lies against evidence that their Qur'an is word for word, letter for letter, dot for dot IDENTICAL with the Qur'an of Mohammed, yet what we see is a web of lies and cover-ups.

Explore2xmore:
Why would you think question 1.

2. Please enlighten me about other prophets being asked this question and their answers

1. Because he knows the answer Mohammed did not yet know.
2. The set of questions never existed either I. Judaism or Christianity. Only in Islam did we see the question being asked and the answer given.

Again, my TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?
It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?

See how you evaded the main question for something else!?
SMH!!

honesttalk21:
The same eyes you used to misread and understand the hadith you used to wrongly srate the Quran is not preserved?

From challenges of dialect pronounciation, misunderstanding and over simplifying ahruf, Qiraat, initial reluctance, inclusions of explanations and supplications in personal Mushaf?

Sorry your premise of arguments are fallacious and THE QURAN IS PRESERVED.

I end my comments on this thread.

Your conscience will continue to prick you as the TRUTH you cannot say you don't know.

Just as JimRohn, who quickly recognised the disaster awaiting him and fled, I am not surprised you have chosen to flee.

I am sure you have seen from my last question how much ignorance you have even about your own religious literatures.

Your Problem:
You don't ask Questions!
If you had asked questions, you wouldn't have remained a Muslim!

Jesus said:
When you know the Truth and adopt it, this Truth will set you free!

John 8:32:
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

honesttalk21:
Stop diverting from your failed propaganda that the Quran is not preserved .

It is preserved and all your arguments against that have been dismantled.

The Truth is Bitting You!?
All I see in YOU is FEAR and DESPERATION nothing else


So, and AGAIN you may help him to answer my questions
TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?

It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938 is the hadith we are looking at now. Muslims dislike scrutiny of their sources because their lies collapse like a pack of cards when they do

Are you more afraid?

honesttalk21:
Why bother with this guy. I have addressed his incorrect perception and misconceptions of evidence for. The Quran is well preserved as it was initially transmitted.

He is trying to water down the reality of his errot

Evidence of FEAR catching you!?

Your problem with me is that you have no answers for my Quizzes based on your Qur'an, Hadiths and Sira. The best you can do is to REPEAT the Standard Islamic Narrative as if it is a fact that erases the problems presented by your Islamic Sources.

So, you may help him to answer my questions
TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?

It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938 is the hadith we are looking at now. Muslims dislike scrutiny of their sources because their lies collapse like a pack of cards when they do

Are you afraid?

Explore2xmore:
I don't see anything wrong with the hadith.

The truth was spoken about Jibril

TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?

It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?

Explore2xmore:
The statement about Jews that they are a people of falsehood, is more about a specific situation than a blanket statement about all Jews in Islam.
In Islamic teachings, there’s a deeper understanding that recognizes the diversity among Jewish communities. Some individuals who betrayed the trust during the time of the Prophet Muhammad in Medina were rightly criticized for their actions, while others were acknowledged for their honesty and integrity

We can come back to this later.

So, Tell me sir,
What is wrong IN this hadith about Mohammed's answer and can this hadith show that Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

Explore2xmore:
Very well and not unexpected from you.

Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His angels, His messengers, and Jibrīl and Mīkāl, then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers."
Surah al-Baqarah 2:98


You know Abdullah bin Salam accepted Islam

According to him and the hadith, `Abdullah bin Salam accepted Islam.

Has it come to your view that `Abdullah bin Salam could be the greatest liar amongst to Jews?
I believe you've heard of deep cover spies before!
LOL!

He said: ask them about me before they know about my conversion to Islam!

Even though, this is not the issue at stake, Can you please answer this YES or NO question
When`Abdullah bin Salam became a Muslim, did he cease being a Jew?


Then we can go back to the hadith

So, Tell me sir,
What is wrong IN this hadith about Mohammed's answer and can this hadith show that Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

Explore2xmore:
Long time troublesome Tenq.

What is the trick?

Hello my friend.
It's a long time.

You are wondering that what is the trick in the hadith I just posted!? `Abdullah bin Salam gave the trick question not me!

My claim with the hadith is that there is no Jibril anywhere and every claim about Jibril is certainly fraudulent!


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Narrated Anas:
When the news of the arrival of the Prophet (ﷺ) at Medina reached `Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, "I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "Gabriel has just now informed me of that." Ibn Salam said, "He (i.e. Gabriel) is the enemy of the Jews amongst the angels. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "As for the first sign of The Hour, it will be a fire that will collect the people from the East to the West. As for the first meal which the people of Paradise will eat, it will be the caudate (extra) lobe of the fish-liver. As for the child, if the man's discharge proceeds the woman's discharge, the child attracts the similarity to the man, and if the woman's discharge proceeds the man's, then the child attracts the similarity to the woman." On this, `Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and that you are the Messenger of Allah." and added, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Jews invent such lies as make one astonished, so please ask them about me before they know about my conversion to I slam . " The Jews came, and the Prophet (ﷺ)said, "What kind of man is `Abdullah bin Salam among you?" They replied, "The best of us and the son of the best of us and the most superior among us, and the son of the most superior among us. "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "What would you think if `Abdullah bin Salam should embrace Islam?" They said, "May Allah protect him from that." The Prophet (ﷺ) repeated his question and they gave the same answer. Then `Abdullah came out to them and said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah!" On this, the Jews said, "He is the most wicked among us and the son of the most wicked among us." So they degraded him. On this, he (i.e. `Abdullah bin Salam) said, "It is this that I was afraid of, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ).


Tell me sir,
What is wrong IN this hadith about Mohammed's answer and can this hadith show that Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

honesttalk21:
The alleged lies that have been squarely debunked?

You recently spoke on how Ibn Mas'ud pronounced a word in a verse of Surah Yusuf and this was debunked based on dialect difference of Hudhayl and Quraysh dialect?



You don't disagree with the hadith but label them as lies?

Please what are you stating?

I do not label your Hadiths as LIES, in fact they help expose the LIES of your Islamic Scholars from Mohammed down to the modern Muslim claims about Islam!

This is what I am stating!

It is amazing that as a Muslim, you did NOT see the problem with the hadith. The question was a trick question that both Mohammed and your Islamic scholars and then you have fallen for

Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Narrated Anas:
When the news of the arrival of the Prophet (ﷺ) at Medina reached `Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, "I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "Gabriel has just now informed me of that." Ibn Salam said,........

Tell me honesttalk21,
What is wrong with this hadith and was Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

neyop85:
Iran is entitled to their own Nuclear deterrent. If Isreal has Nuclear bombs they have no moral justification to refuse Iran.

I agree except that Iran's Islamic government had vowed to wipe out the state of Israel even if it would cause them to cease as a nation?

Nuclear weapon systems along with long range missile system for their deployment is what Israel is going after

honesttalk21:
You had unsuccessfully used hadiths including those of Bukhari in your failed attempt to claim the Quran is not preserved. Why do you now disagree with the hadith?


Accept the truth of the Quran's preservation which I feel you passively express.

If you now wish to shifting the question to another that Questions the mode of receiving revelation? open a new thread.

I never disagreed with any of your Hadiths. I only used them to prove the lies of your Islamic scholars whose consensus you accept above both Allah and Mohammed.

This hadith was to show you that even the claim of Mohammed recieving information from Jibril is a FRAUD!

It is amazing that as a Muslim, you did NOT see the problem with the hadith. The question was a trick question that both Mohammed and your Islamic scholars and then you have fallen for

Mr honesttalk21,
I don't know why an Admin is deleting my posts.
If indeed Mohammed is not cooking up conjectures about Jibril , explain why this hadith doesn't show Mohammed to be doing exactly that


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Narrated Anas:
When the news of the arrival of the Prophet (ﷺ) at Medina reached `Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, "I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "Gabriel has just now informed me of that." Ibn Salam said, "He (i.e. Gabriel) is the enemy of the Jews amongst the angels. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "As for the first sign of The Hour, it will be a fire that will collect the people from the East to the West. As for the first meal which the people of Paradise will eat, it will be the caudate (extra) lobe of the fish-liver. As for the child, if the man's discharge proceeds the woman's discharge, the child attracts the similarity to the man, and if the woman's discharge proceeds the man's, then the child attracts the similarity to the woman." On this, `Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and that you are the Messenger of Allah." and added, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Jews invent such lies as make one astonished, so please ask them about me before they know about my conversion to I slam . " The Jews came, and the Prophet (ﷺ)said, "What kind of man is `Abdullah bin Salam among you?" They replied, "The best of us and the son of the best of us and the most superior among us, and the son of the most superior among us. "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "What would you think if `Abdullah bin Salam should embrace Islam?" They said, "May Allah protect him from that." The Prophet (ﷺ) repeated his question and they gave the same answer. Then `Abdullah came out to them and said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah!" On this, the Jews said, "He is the most wicked among us and the son of the most wicked among us." So they degraded him. On this, he (i.e. `Abdullah bin Salam) said, "It is this that I was afraid of, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ).


Tell me honesttalk21,
What is wrong with this hadith and how can we know if Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

writeprof:
It's a major decline in the education system really. A well known political thug once told a friend of mine with a Master's degree that he(my friend) didn't really need a degree not to talk of Master's degree, to get a good job...Why did he say that? As a secondary school leaver, he was a multimillionaire due to his affiliation with the politicians in government. My friend went to see him concerning getting a job because they were all childhood friends in the community...

The more reasons politicians would look down on those in the academia while validating the "Who school epp" crew

Some time ago, some of the politicians "bagged" law degrees from a university in Abuja...

Hundreds of PhDs were give to some people this month by an institutions, some.of whom said they spent just 3 years doing it.

I have been in the academic setting and as an editor and research assistant, 95 per cent of my clients were doctoral students from the humanities, social sciences and education. So, I know how many years on the average is spent either on FT or PT doctoral research.

Which is why I often wonder if all these people TRULY worked for these degrees?

I perfectly agree with you.

We live in a country where the government doesn't need any professional for anything in the nation.

Unfortunately, even PhD holders are looking for jobs, why would the academia be respected?

It is a complete systemic failure in governance and nationhood we are seeing being manifest

honesttalk21:
You should open a new thread to question if truly Jibril r.a revealed the Quran.

I BELIEVE YOU HAVE NOW EXHAUSTED YOUR ARGUMENT THAT WHAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH TRANSMITTED IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE.

AND SEE INDEED THE QURAN IS PRESERVED 9

If it UNTRUE that Jibril revealed the Qur'an to Mohammed based on this hadith, woe betide you Muslims.

Is this hadith another fabrication of Islam?

honesttalk21:
I will appreciate the you inform what the relevance of this to your title/original post about the preservation of the Quran.

I have dismantled all your views against it and correctly explained what you misunderstand.

You however refuse to accept being undone and only seem to be needlessly prolonging your thread.

Open another with this question if there is really something you intend to understand or show about it.

Otherwise it has been proven that the revelation for recitation through prophet Muhammad pbuh has been preserved and remains useful in that light.

That every claim of Mohammed about Jibril was a fraud! Didn't Jibril dictate the Qur'an to Mohammed?

The hadith Sahih al-Bukhari 3938 proves it!

Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Narrated Anas:
When the news of the arrival of the Prophet (ﷺ) at Medina reached `Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, "I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "Gabriel has just now informed me of that." Ibn Salam said, "He (i.e. Gabriel) is the enemy of the Jews amongst the angels. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "As for the first sign of The Hour, it will be a fire that will collect the people from the East to the West. As for the first meal which the people of Paradise will eat, it will be the caudate (extra) lobe of the fish-liver. As for the child, if the man's discharge proceeds the woman's discharge, the child attracts the similarity to the man, and if the woman's discharge proceeds the man's, then the child attracts the similarity to the woman." On this, `Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and that you are the Messenger of Allah." and added, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Jews invent such lies as make one astonished, so please ask them about me before they know about my conversion to I slam . " The Jews came, and the Prophet (ﷺ)said, "What kind of man is `Abdullah bin Salam among you?" They replied, "The best of us and the son of the best of us and the most superior among us, and the son of the most superior among us. "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "What would you think if `Abdullah bin Salam should embrace Islam?" They said, "May Allah protect him from that." The Prophet (ﷺ) repeated his question and they gave the same answer. Then `Abdullah came out to them and said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah!" On this, the Jews said, "He is the most wicked among us and the son of the most wicked among us." So they degraded him. On this, he (i.e. `Abdullah bin Salam) said, "It is this that I was afraid of, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ).


Tell me honesttalk21,
What is wrong with this hadith and how can we know if Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

Mr honesttalk21,
Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Here is the Hadith they don't want you to see

honesttalk21
They keep deleting this post: why?
.Here is an example that the admin have deleted five times now

A Jew asked Mohammed a trick question and he fell for it.

honesttalk21
They keep deleting this post: why?
.
There is no evidence that Mohammed saw anything nor witnessed anything. All was a lie and gullible Arabs swallowed it hook line and sinker

honesttalk21
They keep deleting this post: why?

There is one Muslim Admin deleting my posts he finds incriminating to Muslims

honesttalk21:
What is wrong or deficient in the standard? It is standard isn't it? You want sub or under standard.

You would have done reasonably better to point at what constitutes a lie? I have dissected what you choose to misunderstand and cannot be bamboozled.

The evidence you think you present are not in your favour. I have explained what is there that you misunderstand.

Well you disagree and disbelieve in Muhammad salallahu alaiwasalam, Islam and Allah the only true and real God so your submission is of no consequence.

I said:
Standard Islamic Narrative (SIN)!

Meaning an agreed upon conjecture made as a save-face to serious theological questions!

The Name of the Real God is YHWH the God of Abraham, Moses, David and Solomon! Is the name of your Allah YHWH?

honesttalk21:
AGAIN
What Are Aḥruf?

The Prophet pbuh said: The Qur'an was revealed in seven Ahruf — *Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī, Muslim, and others.

The precise meaning of the seven Aḥruf has been a topic of discussion among Muslims since the early days. Scholars have different opinions, but most agree that Aḥruf refer to various ways of expressing the message that Allah permitted in the revelation. These include differences in pronunciation, vocabulary, dialect, or synonymous expressions. These variations helped accommodate the different tribes' languages in early Arabia. Imām al-Nawawi explained that the strongest view is that the Aḥruf refer to seven types of differences, such as synonyms, word order, grammatical inflections, and dialectical variations, without changing the core meaning.

So, to answer your question: Are phrases like "THEY SAY" vs. "YOU SAY," or "WERE KILLED" vs. "FOUGHT" considered Aḥruf?
Yes, such examples are considered part of the Aḥruf, provided they were authentically revealed to the Prophet pbuh and transmitted through strong, continuous chains. For example: تعالَ; taāla(Come) versus هلمّ; halumma (Come!) Both appear in different Qirāʾāt.

فَتَبَيَّنُوا, ftabayanuu; verify versus فَتَثَبَّتُوا; fatathabatuu; be sure. Both are valid Qirāʾāt in 49:6. These differences are in wording, not in the fundamental message meaning, they uphold the same core teachings. They weren't human additions but were revealed by Allah to allow linguistic flexibility among the Arab tribes.

What Are Qiiraat?

Qiraat are the different ways of reciting the Qur’an that reflect some of these Aḥruf. Today’s worldwide recitation of the Qur’an (like Ḥafṣ ʿan ʿĀsim, Warsh ʿan Nāfiʿ) is based on a selection from the seven Aḥruf, each with authentic chains of transmission. All Qirāʾāt are Mutawātir, meaning they have been transmitted by so many narrators across generations that it's impossible they are fabricated.

Why Only One Survived (According to You)?
Your claim that only one Aḥruf survived isn't entirely accurate. Here's why:

1. Uthman’s Standardization: The mushaf compiled by ʿUthmān ibn ʿAffān preserved one unified dialect (Quraysh) to prevent division, not because other dialects were wrong. This writing system (Rasm) allowed multiple Qiraat to continue as long as they fit the script and had strong transmission.

2. The Seven (Later Ten) Qiraat :

These preserve elements of the Aḥruf. So, the Aḥruf aren’t completely lost they are incorporated into the Qiraat we have today, transmitted through widespread, continuous chains.

3. The Prophet pbuh himself advised the community to read whatever is easiest, stating: "Recite whichever of it is easy for you." — *Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī*
This shows Allah’s mercy and His careful preservation, not failure.

Is This a Contradiction to the Idea of Complete Preservation?
Preservation (ḥifẓ) in Islam doesn't mean the Qur’an was kept in seven dialects forever, but that the essential message, wording, and guidance Allah revealed would never be lost.

"Indeed, it is We who sent down the Reminder, and indeed, We will be its guardian." — *Qur’an 15:9

It's important to understand that complexity does not mean contradiction. Just as Einstein's theory is difficult to understand but not flawed, the concepts of Ahruf and Qiraat are part of a rich and carefully preserved linguistic system revealed by God. Our faith does not rely on hiding anything; in fact, these sciences are studied, shared, and memorized around the world, displaying their significance and clarity

If you notice:

All you have been doing is giving me the Standard Islamic Narrative (SIN)
Unfortunately EVIDENCES abound against you. Hadiths after hadiths show that the SIN is a fabrication to solve problems of earlier told conjectures of Mohammed!


Like I said:
Why don't you CHOOSE to ask yourself Questions and truthfully ANSWER them without recourse to your so-called scholars interjections.

Islam is not the Religion of Allah or Mohammed, it is the Religion of Consensus of Islamic Scholars.