₦airaland Forum

Image123: Are you missing anything by not believing Brahma? i knw i'm not because God satisfies me, i thought i already said that.

I'm not missing anything by not believing in your God either. When you understand why you refuse to draw close to Brahma, then you'll understand why I don't draw close to your God.

[quote author=Appliedmaths.]I make claims I proof it with my bible, you make claims even saying that my bible is false yet you cannot back you back your words with mere statements.[/quote]Why don't you back up your assumption that the Bible is actually correct? If you just like quotes from books, I too have books I can quote from.

[quote author=Appliedmaths.]Like I earlier said, we are here to rub minds together so at least don't you have any medium you can use to back up your proof.

And most importantly, your answers on good and evil weren't convincing enough; even here on earth when men go against the law they get punished. In my own take the bible is "that book of law" that guides men into the eternal life yet you say it's false still without any proof to show, the bible made mention of so many things which are happening now on earth as I speak to you this is how I know that "that book of law" isn't just a mere thing neither was is written for gimmicks.[/quote]According to the Bible's laws, you're supposed to kill a child for not following their parents' beliefs. Do you accept that? How about who to enslave? Are you in support of slavery?

[quote author=Appliedmaths.]Most pastors and religious leaders today have driven men away from the kingdom of God as a result of their lust for wealth and fame this is true but I'm mot worried cause my bible tells me that "many would come as wolves in sheep clothings; but in the end the corn shall be separated from the shaft", the good from evil. Many have died without knowing the truth about the eternal life only to find themselves I'm a place of sorrow with no room for repentance but only a few had opportuned with a second chance.[/quote]Why doesn't God clearly tell us who the wolves and sheep are? Why should he wait and just torture people after they're dead?

[quote author=Appliedmaths.]Evil and good can never have the same ending, no! I disagree with you on that. The murderer and the goodman can never end up in the same place after earthly death; so why be moral? Are we moral because it pleases us? Oh' mind you immorality is very sweet so is sin.[/quote]Since immorality is so sweet, why don't you go out and kill everyone you know? Then go on to kill everyone you meet in the street? Evil and good don't have the same end but those who carry out those actions all end up dead eventually.

[quote author=Appliedmaths.]Who crated the earth? Who crated day and Night? And many more things, haven't you wondered upon the stars at night how beautiful they look; perhaps whatever created these things must have a high taste for art, don't you think so?[/quote]The earth wasn't created, night and day are the effects of the earth's rotation. The stars weren't created either. Is it the person who created them with the taste for art the same person who created the animals that cause river blindness, malaria and the ebola virus?

[quote author=Appliedmaths.]Man was created with a "free will" that's what differentiates us from the animals, also my bible has this to say:

Deuteronomy 30:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day
against you, that I have set before you life
and death, blessing and cursing: therefore
choose life, that both thou and thy seed may
live.[/quote]The Lord of the Rings has this to say:

Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many – yours not least.

[quote author=Appliedmaths.]The End is near, hope you've watch that american movie by seth green and james franco "this is the end" although they added a lot of controversial things to it that wasn't recorded in the bible but that goes to show that gradually people are begining to come to the understanding of this claim as you put it.

I would kindly appeal to those who throw offensive words at me please we're not fighting we're just rubbing minds like matured people.[/quote]Have you watched The Godfather? That was also an interesting movie. There are other classics like Scarface and To Kill a Mockingbird.

Bidam: @thehomer,try and read the account of the amalekites again and this time read and reference the whole bible,not one portion.God is righteous in His judgement when he told Saul to utterly destroy them.Even Saul did not obey that order completely and you know what happened. God actually gave them a life-time chance to repent which they never did during Moses time.

These amalekites killed their children and offer them as sacrifices to their idols.God detest such.And that was why the judgement came.If the children had been spared they would have followed the footsteps of their fathers no doubt because it's a stronghold.God had to take them away to heaven.It's as simple as that.

So would it be better for us to kill children who are suffering or will suffer since they'll be taken to heaven? Or is it only good when God kills children and they go to heaven? You're yet to explain how God commanding men to kill children is the right thing to do.

Image123: Told you earlier, i have everything i need in God. Again, do you know Brahma or is it Brahama, or do you personally know someone who knows Brahma?

How do you know you're not missing anything? Have you tried Brahma? I don't have to know anyone who knows Brahma, the information is available to any who wishes to draw close to Brahma.

Bidam: You.

Romans 1:20-21

New International Version (NIV)

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began,
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say

I don't see how anything there means that I, thehomer granted your God ownership of my life.

Image123: But i did, and so have many million others. i was not born a believer of God.
He that comes to God MUST believe that He is, that He exists, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. There is no short cut to the leap of faith, as it were.

Then nothing stops you from reading about Brahama and drawing close to him.

[quote author=Appliedmaths.]Since you guys like being logical and practical I would follow suit. I have a question and it goes thus. Let us assume there were two men on earth Mr A and Mr B, mr A while on earth was a good man, wasn't referred to as a good man because he went to church and believed in God but rather he was mostly referred to as a good man because he portrayed acts of love,kindness,giving and other good deeds to humanity. Now there was also Mr B the bad guy, also he wasn't mostly referred to as a bad guy because he didn't go to church nor he didn't believe in God but rather he was widely known as the shekaus(boko haram leader), the osamas, the suicide bomber, the rapist and all sorts of wicked and cruel things to humanity.
Now I ask, when mr A and mr B die where would their souls go to?. Don't tell me humans have no soul because you'll only end up making us equals with the animals( goats, dogs, snakes, monkeys) and seriously I'll laugh at that person.[/quote]1. Well seriously laughing at someone doesn't show that there are souls so you'll need a better argument in support of souls.
2. Even if there were souls, what if Mr B was simply doing God's work? What if he was merely doing what God commanded him to do? Would he still end up in this hell?
3. Even if there were souls, what makes you think that heaven and hell are the only options? Maybe the souls are all destroyed after use or recycled or something else?

[quote author=Appliedmaths.]All things being equal, a student who prepares well for an examination would pass, and those who don't would fail woefully I guess we all see that everyday; why didn't the lazy student pass the examination? It's simply because he wasn't prepared. HEAVEN and HELL is REAL, and the only way to a glorious eternal life is through JESUS CHRIST.

Patiently waiting for you 'logical' responds. Tnx![/quote]What makes you think that there is this eternal life and that Jesus is the only way? What exactly happens in Heaven and Hell? I'd like to know before choosing one side or the other.

[quote author=Appliedmaths.]NB: We are all humans, and I'm not judging you cause deep down you're all brothers and my sisters and maybe old enough to be my parents too. [/quote]You're welcome to judge away as far as I'm concerned as long as you accept that I'll judge you too.

Bidam: The owner of your life.

Who granted him ownership of my life?

Image123: Do you know Brahma or are you personally close to anyone that knows Brahma? Why would you want meto believe in Brahma. i do not even remember eve hearing that name five times in my entire life. i believ in God and i am satisfied with Him You have heard about God all your life and we both know His conditions. What are Brahma's conditions and what does brahma have to offer us. Are you a believer of brahma?

Why is thinking through a simple idea so difficult for you? To repeat myself, my point once more is to show you why it is useless for you to ask me to draw close to a God I don't believe in. You asked me to draw close to a God I don't believe in and I'm telling you that it is a useless idea because one cannot draw close to a God they don't believe in.

Image123: Didn't say that i do not believe in Brahma. i've drawn close to God and i am satisfied with Him. D you know Brahma or are you personally close to anyone that knows Brahma?

This is the sort of pointless response that I prefer to avoid. Do you believe in Brahma or not? Please answer with a yes or no before you go on to ask me to believe in your own God that I currently don't believe in. For some reason, you don't understand what I've said so far. You asked me to draw near to a God I don't believe in. Can you draw close to a God you don't believe in?

Image123: i meant God, the One i've been discussing with you since you saw my username.

I take it that this means you don't believe in Brahma. So, can you draw close to Brahma since you don't believe in him? Asking me to draw close to this God of yours that I don't believe in is like asking you to draw close to Brahma that you don't believe in.

Image123: i do not need to draw near to any other, God satisfied me.

And by God, do you mean Brahma?

Image123: Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Lord of the Rings. Vol. 1 Fellowship of the Rings Chapter 10:
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,

Image123: Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. i cannot breathe on your behalf no matter how much i love you.

How can I draw near to a God that I don't believe in? Can you draw near to Brahma? The Brahmin cannot breathe on your behalf either so have you been able to believe in him?

Bidam: There is alwayz a day for the owner.

The owner of what?

Image123: God can give you a clearer knowledge of Himself, not me. God can save you not me. But you need to be willing, and to change your mindset.

Since I don't believe in this God but you do, I'd rather find out from you. So, are you willing to share this knowledge of God that you have with me?

Image123: Do you want to have a clearer knowledge of God and salvation?

Sure. If you in fact do have a clear knowledge of God and salvation and are able to demonstrate this knowledge along with how you came to obtain it.

Bidam: He will,just give him time.They always come to the truth sooner or later.

You make me laugh.

Image123: i'd wish rather that you had a clearer knowledge of God and salvation, than saving my writings for posterity.

Do you have a clear knowledge of God and salvation?

Mr anony: Lololol, I wonder how this addresses the point that specific complexity is evidence for design.


Yawn


Of course it is just like a brick is part of a house. Yet one doesn't need to prove that a brick is designed in order to prove that a house is designed


Lololol, thehomer's rule book: when your red herring fails, try, try again




I made argument(1), argument(2) is your strawman.



...and I told you over and over again that I inferred design because it consisted of components that worked according to a specific set of instructions. What you did next was to zealously beat up your straw man.




Have you been paying any attention at all?


C'mon now don't run away, I'm not done playing with you yet. Don't be such a coward.

Lolololol, You asked for God to be shown to you then proceeded to pluck out your eyes and then vehemently reject eye replacement surgery.

The argument proposed in this thread of yours has been comprehensively refuted. You might want to come back after a few years and go through the arguments again. Hopefully you would have gained some intellectual maturity . . . .or better you would have grown an honest bone in your body by then.

Saved.

Mr anony: Lololol, you keep claiming that I don't understand the difference between physical and logical possibilities. You would do well to define them both and point out the difference between the two in your own words.



Not so fast my friend you said that you can measure the law itself. Please show us the measurement of the physical law.
It is the relationship between energy, mass and the speed of light that you claimed could be measured or are you saying that such a relationship does not exist?



How can the cubic volume of E=mc² be measured? I'd like to here you tell me.


Hahahaha, nah, I'm only pointing out your frustration. You have proved a good source of amusement so far.


Lol, it's your argument why don't you tell me.


Hahahahahaha, you are really getting desperate. Not everything that exists has causal ability. The question of causality and existence are two separate questions. Another poor attempt at throwing out a red herring. But sorry once again, I've already had breakfast.

Saved.

destiny said: ok,so this is my first post on NL,although I joined a month back. Was going through thehomer profile and found out he really wants to disprove the existence of God almighty,dude,u are most probably older than me,so I'll try to be polite. STOP HARRASING US. If you don't blive and refuse to blive then plzzz stop all d arguments,u shudnt force your opinion on us Religious people(Christianity aint a religion though) same applies to the Christians in here,even Jesus said if you arnt welcome,dust your feet and leave,not try and force it down on em.The last day shall reveal it all. тнαηχ!

Who is this punk? You pop up on a thread I created to tell me not to harass you? If you were feeling harassed, why did you bother going through my profile? If you're not a child, how can I force my opinion on you?

The last day has been running away for centuries now and will continue running.

Image123: You are the one unable to see the fallacy in your position. You are forcing in things that were not said either by God or myself. Out of your long talk, here is what i have said, "God commanded the flood that killed everyone - men, women, children, infants - except a family of 8 people because those men and women did something wrong." This is what i have said, keep all the fancy stuff you added in the dustbin, you sure can cope with some honesty?




You said "God killing everyone wasn't to make society safer. So what was his reason?"
You implied that that was what i said. i never said that.




Like i said, it might take you a lifetime to wrap your head around with that. God is good. He is not a human being, limited to your perception and understanding. He made the whole universe. You couldn't even get your head to understand parts of the human body, yet you think you can play grammar to understand God? Did you just say 'Yes, goodness, redness and fiveness are moral concepts?




Duh, it is the babies that are to become man(i.e men and women). If they are killed by your altruist friend, they do not grow up to become men that has dominion and mastery of his world, or to be holy and victorious. These were the chief purposes for which God made the babies.




Based on what i'm saying, the Nigerian government are not God. And God would usually not punish the 'bad man's son if the son does not continue in the bad life of the man. Have you been reading what i've been saying at all, or you are more interested in making silly points from twisted phrases?




When you limit it to six month old, you apparently forget that sinner adults were the majority of the people justly punished. Their stats show that they continued in sin. God in His omniscience could easily state like we project in a graph, what the 6months would eventually do.
i'm was almost certain you will skip those questions ALSO. i could fairly project and know what you would do. You will still avoid them like a plague. here they are again.
On a sidenote, i want to ask, do you think they should have killed the old and left the 6month olds? 6 month olds somehow get to survive on their own? Or you think they should have adopted them, or what? Give me your goody options. Can you tell me what anyone baby has done wrong to be born in a place like Nigeria(or wherever else you think unpleasant) when he could be born in America(or wherever else you think okay)? Why does anyone has to be born into a poor home or debt or disease stricken home? Are they going to be immune from the evil and suffering their parents are undergoing? Should 'bad' people and folks who cannot take care of children be barren? Are there some set of people who you feel have to right to give birth? i'm almost certain you will skip these questions AGAIN




Not surprised, i expected you would rather revel in frivolities about definitions, instead of facing the real issue being discussed. i understand genocide to be a crime, therefore God did not commit a crime. That is as simple as it gets. Whatever name you choose to call His acts, here is the real issue again. Hopefully, you do not miss it this time.

---

The quotes show us that one, God spoke through His prophets like Moses and Samuel. Of course you agree to that, else we should be arguing Moses or Samuel killing Amalekites instead of God. At our own time, God has spoken through Jesus.
Heb 1:1 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
His Son has said among other things, love everyone, including enemies. To pray for them, to be pitiful, to be courteous, to honour all men. He has told us that we are all one in Him and that there is no Jew or Gentile discrimination again, that He has broken the middle wall of partition, and died for us when we were enemies. He does not want anyone to perish but has offered humanity a new agreement/covenant.
The bolded are all things found in the Bible, which you have read and know that Jesus has said either directly or through His disciples. Based on this, it is ascertained what God has told us about such actions. The whole of Matthew 5 always make a good read anyday.
Mat 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you,
Mat 5:45 that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.







Wrong. God can do what He has done because He is the Judge of the earth. What He has done has been to judge the offenders. that is as plain and straight forward as it gets.

I'll just save this here for posterity.

Uyi Iredia: They don't follow rules codes must follow. Representing an action or thing other than itself. In any case, your question is a diversion which hardly addresses my argument.

The sun doesn't follow the rules DNA must follow so what? Your argument so far has been based on a flawed conception of what DNA is. And I've pointed that fact out to you several times already.

Uyi Iredia: It isn't BUT the genetic code is prescribed within the DNA hence the statement 'DNA is a code.'

Huh? What are you trying to say here? Your assertion was that DNA was a set of rules. It isn't. You also asserted that it was a set of regulations, it isn't either. So what point are you trying to make? If you think DNA is a set of rules or regulations, please present an argument in support of that assertion.

Uyi Iredia: I just dey laff !

Still laughing at your ignorance.

Uyi Iredia: They are molecules still. Or would you say the OS isn't stored in the ways I listed.

And this further demonstrates your ignorance on the topic at hand. Can you hold an operating system in your hand or in a test tube? Can you hold DNA in a test tube? Answering these questions will help you realize your confusion.

Uyi Iredia: It follows a rule. It encodes for amino acid within a cell of most organisms, in retroviruses the material substrate for the code is the
RNA. All codes are based on a material substrate bar none: it is silly to assume otherwise (even against mainstream science which you happen to agree with) because of your bias, as I said, read 'Genetics For Dummies'.

Billiard balls also follow rules. Are they codes? Once again, you fail to understand the implications of your adopted definitions. You said with respect to codes that it is:

Uyi Iredia: 2. A systematic collection of regulations and rules of procedure
or conduct

i.e DNA is a systematic collection of regulations and rules of procedure or conduct. Does this make any sense to you? Changing it to mean that DNA follows rules makes your enterprise trivially pointless since the only sorts of things that don't follow rules are chaotic. You read the book, understand it and use the information in it to rectify your misconceptions.

Uyi Iredia: I just dey laff !

Keep laughing at your ignorance.

Uyi Iredia: OS are ions on a flash drive, or pits on a DVD, or magnetic states of a material in a hard disk. They are molecules not codes. This applies given your precedent with DNA.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Either you don't understand what codes are or you don't understand what ions are. Secondly you should have read the definitions of code you presented because operating systems the fourth definition.

4. A system of symbols and rules used to represent instructions
to a computer; a computer program.

Uyi Iredia: 1. Not at all. All codes are merely physical molecules. Human language too. If codes are abstract, the same applies to DNA, the mapping of nucleobases to amino acids follows no known natural precedent outside the biocosm.

So what is the physical molecule that represents the word "go"? You have no idea of what you're talking about. How can DNA be abstract when it can be seen under a microscope? Or are bacteria too codes? What you're saying is that molecules can be represented as abstractions. That doesn't make molecules abstract. The formation of carbon from stars has follows no known natural precedent outside of space.

Uyi Iredia: 2. No. Dead humans, brain-damaged or nascent humans can't make codes. It's an attribute of humans, namely conscious intellect. Also, the human DNA which begs the question of our intellect, demands an explanation.

This is the sort of useless response I've come to expect from you. Are you trying to say codes aren't created by humans? Or that humans can't create codes? The sun too demands an explanation. What is your point? How does anything you've said here refute the fact that humans create codes?

Uyi Iredia: 3. I suspect you'll prefer this as an answer to the idea of God doing it. In any case, your conclusion is invalid given that it ignored Perry's premises.

Really you need to learn how to have a discussion. I didn't ignore his premises, I showed that his premises were flawed. Then I pointed out that even if some were true, his conclusions would still be flawed.

Uyi Iredia: I didn't say DNA is a rule. The behaviour of the DNA follows rules. The genetic code is a rule, a central one.

You said code was defined as a rule. If DNA is a code, then it is being defined as a rule but obviously, it isn't a rule, it is a molecule.

Uyi Iredia: The nuclueobases (purines and pyrimidines) are signals within the cell to make an amino acid. You confuse the language with which we code (represent) the DNA for the DNA.

Wrong. The bases aren't signals, they're molecules. We can refer to them as signals just as we can refer to DNA as a code for our models of what happens in cells to be easily comprehensible. To put it another way, crystals grow due to interactions of different forces. In the same way that DNA does what it does due to the interactions of different forces.

Uyi Iredia: Willful and pitiable ignorance. I need not refer you to books by Creationists and ID'sts, read books by evolutionists. Hubert Yockey, Richard Dawkins etc Or read Genetics for dummies, it's available online.

And now rather than demonstrating the evidence for what you're claiming, you've decided to wail and gnash your teeth when pressed for specifics. You need to learn how to carry out a conversation.

Uyi Iredia: I anticipated your worn-out argument on DNA being a molecule. It so happens you also can't see a DNA's date under a microscope. Your question is asinine. Operating systems are merely ions in a certain transistors microprinted on a silicon wafer.

As usual, your childish behaviour precedes you and you exacerbate it with dense questions. Did anyone say DNA has a date? Or don't you think operating systems have dates? Turn on your phone or computer and look for the date it displays. You're demonstrating a failure of understanding both DNA and the software you're trying to compare it with. Operating systems aren't ions. This is another one of your category errors. They're actually codes.

This is the basis of Perry's argument. I hope Uyi Iredia is ready to actually defend them.

1) DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism.
2) All codes are created by a conscious mind; there is no natural process known to science that creates coded information.
3) Therefore DNA was designed by a mind.

1. Implicitly admits that DNA is a molecule. DNA is not a code because it is a physical molecule. Codes are abstract. It is not a language because again it is physical molecule not a means of communication between two people. Saying it is an information storage mechanism contributes nothing to the discussion because one can even say that the moon is an information storage mechanism.

2. We can go further to say that all codes are created by humans. There is no other entity known that creates coded information.

3. Even if I accepted his (1) it would mean that DNA was created by humans.

Uyi Iredia: This happens to be a profound folly on the part of the people he debated. I might post the links where he rebutted the talk of DNA not being a code amongst other counter-arguments. The behaviour of the DNA molecule wrt a cell fits the definition of code given below:

code (k d)
n.
1. A systematically arranged and comprehensive collection of
laws.
2. A systematic collection of regulations and rules of procedure
or conduct: a traffic code.
3.
a. A system of signals used to represent letters or
numbers in transmitting messages.
b. A system of symbols, letters, or words given certain
arbitrary meanings, used for transmitting messages
requiring secrecy or brevity.
4. A system of symbols and rules used to represent instructions
to a computer; a computer program.
5. Genetics The genetic code.
6. Slang A patient whose heart has stopped beating, as in
cardiac arrest.

The DNA molecule's behaviour fits definition 2, 3 & 5. If you state its just a molecule, then any OS on Android, Apple devices et al aren't codes but just molecules_ions to be precise.

2. DNA is not a rule but a molecule.
3. DNA is not a signal representing letter or numbers. In fact, letters are used to represent DNA in communication.
5. I merely an assertion that is yet to be demonstrated.

Wrong again with respect to software. Operating systems are actually codes. Or can you see the operating system date under a microscope?

As I've pointed out before, this Marshall guy merely confuses words. To say DNA is a code is to make a category mistake and with that, his entire enterprise fails.

When will they get to 10,000 on their way to 20,000 MW?

Talk about an evil character. This man is not just a lying swindler, he is also the usual greedy preacher who wanted to be president.

So what is the definition of critical infrastructure? Do the roads, railways, airports, power lines and sea ports count?