₦airaland Forum

Procashtips:
Which one of the more than 2500 religions in the world is the true way to God?

If you think yours is, why?

Don't you think you'll burn in at least one out of 2499 hells if yours end up being wrong?

Every religion in the world is not insisting theirs is the only way to God or threatening people with hell.

jesusjnr2020:
Compilation Of Tithing Blunders Made By Prosperity Gospel Preachers

Over the years and decades, we've been bombarded by numerous blunders and heretic teachings about tithing from the stables of prosperity teachers, hence it behoved us to compile them so as to expose the prosperity gospel for the scam it truly is.

1. Ayo Oritsejiafor BN(former PFN/CAN president): "if you don't pay tithes you will die quickly". (Note: This was the same man whose private jet was impounded by the South African government during the Jonathan government for money laundering).

3. David Oyedepo: "Job's riches weren't secured because he didn't pay tithes". (Ironically the same Oyedepo later started blowing hot about suffering losses of millions of Naira of his church money being stolen by some of his highly placed church officials).

4. David Ibiyeomie: "Adam didn't eat any apple. He ate his tithe".

5. U.O Miracle: "If you eat your tithes, you'll die poor as Lazarus".

6. Unknown: "Jesus died poor because He didn't tithe".

7. Pastor Adeboye: "anyone who doesn't pay tithes won't make heaven". (He's since apologized for this heretic teaching though)

8. Pastor Adeboye: "Jesus was not a parish pastor. He was a world evangelist", as to why "Jesus didn't collect tithes". (Expecting an apology for this one very soon)

Compilation Video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1b68wOzBdA?si=oSCpJ7mX5osZzdT2

Please feel free to add yours if you know of any that's missing on my own compiled list.

God bless.

Let me add the one I heard long ago .
"If you failed to pay tithe your life will become very tight "

By unknown pastor

musicwriter:
Read on to see my response to that from the other guy

Im no more interested in reading since you have chosen to backtrack from why I quoted you at first .

You already agreed to my position ,even if not completely, that there are those involved in ritual killings after denying that nothing like that but only organ harvesting.

I know of organ harvesting but said it's not going on in Nigeria on a large scale as you described it.

If you want the public to believe you provide evidence. That's all.

musicwriter:
Well, if at least I've let you understand that not all killings are for ritual purposes, then I think I've been able to pass my message.

Time has changed, I believe that the killers today would be more interested in selling the organs than rituals. There's more money in organ sales than rituals.

Have a nice day

You didn't let me know anything my friend . I'm the one who has let you know something that contrary to your claim there's more of ritual killings going on than you know of.

You were very emphatic at the beginning that nothing like ritual killimgs happening anywhere in Nigeria and that was why you commended the Op for describing the story as organ harvesting, the way you prefer it,even when nothing much about the case is known to you

That's exactly how you reacted to the Op.

But after correcting that with evidence, you backtracked and admitted there's ritual killings thereby contracting your earlier claim.

Now, the same you who has nothing much to support your speculations about a mysterious secret network harvesting human organs on a large scale in Nigeria ,is the same person boasting of informing me of what exactly?

You just like to talk.

A wish you a wonderful day ahead. Thanks for your time.

musicwriter:
What are you even saying? That the killers don't remove hearts, kidneys?

Ok, see this thread is https://www.nairaland.com/8237232/kill-people-sell-kidneys-25k/

I just went through the thread and very disappointed you believed that the young man captured has the requisite medical training to remove a human heart , preserve it in good condition before selling to some agent..

Because verydarkman posted it ,it must be true?

Organ harvesting is done in an environment suited for it and by those properly trained for it and not just anyone with a knife to cut into people in a bush.

musicwriter:
What are you even saying? That the killers don't remove hearts, kidneys?

Ok, see this thread is https://www.nairaland.com/8237232/kill-people-sell-kidneys-25k/

Did you read my response at all?. I'm not ruling out removal of kidneys or hearts, but say it's not common like the main thing, ritual killings, to support your claim that its mostly for organ transplant by an unknown secret network operating at the background.

That's the summary of what I said. Please go back and read it again.

You trying to deny what's commonly seen for what's uncommon because it supports what you want to believe.

Modified. Yes hearts are removed for ritual too
So how do we know who's removing for ritual or transplant?

musicwriter:
Maybe I shouldn't have categorically dismissed all as organ transplant rings. But most of the killings are for organ transplant. It's a secret criminal network so I have no evidence to give you aside telling you the prices of the body parts are enough incentive to sell them

The evidence everyone is exposed to here confirms it's mostly ritual killings and not organ transplant as you want the public to believe.. I'm not completely ruling out organ harvesting for transplanting purposes.

But most of the abandoned corpses used for voodoo ritual ,either for money or anything else,in this country have their external body parts removed, proving ritual killings

You hardly find anything to support your claim that they were cut into to remove internal organs kidneys or heart. If that was happening it would be reported everywhere exactly as so and the public would have been aware long ago of what's exactly going on and not you coming to tell us.

Or are the organ transplant secret network using magic to remove the internal organs so it's not traceable to them?

It's a secret is not evidence and you're not under any compulsion to provide me with any evidence if you don't want to.

Argue all you like ,the truth is that it's more of ritual killings happening here than what you're speculating. Your arguments aren't convincing enough to disprove what's known to be true by most adult Nigerians who grew up in this country.

Honestly you seem to me a foreigner or a Nigerian living outside the country who doesn't know much of what happening back home. You need to investigate more and also ask question..

musicwriter:
I am sorry you lost someone as a result. But I am not talking about those taking tongues cause that's probably ritual killers. Those going to mortuaries are probably ritual killers. So, those are not the people I am talking about.

But you see those harvesting hearts, kidneys, livers, they're organ transplant rings. Simple logic should tell that they stand to make more money by simply selling it. No, they don't have to take it abroad to sell it. I also don't care whether you believe it or not too

But you never made any distinction between the two, ritual killings amd organ harvesters Infact you argued that there's nothing like ritual killings ,suggesting that people are concluding wrongly about obvious cases of ritual killings and that you know the truth which you insisted is organ transplant carried out by organ transplant network in Nigeria.

And I said and still saying no evidence from you supporting your claim. The evidence we have points to ritual killings. Dispute this with facts and evidence. That's all.

I also never said I believe in it. Please take your time to read me before replying. Thank you.

musicwriter:
I like the fact that the OP called it what exactly it should be called. There's no such thing as ritual killers. It's an "organ transplant' ring.

Heart sells for $1 million dollars

Liver sells for $800,000

Kidney sells for $400,000

Etc

There's a serious organ transplant network operating in Nigeria with worldwide contacts.

The network is what needs to be busted, but sadly, we have no secret service agency. The people who call themselves secret service officials are for sale and if you pay them money, they'll work for you. Or work for white people.

Government should launch an investigation into this to be able to stop the "ritual killers"

Don't be naive my friend. There's killing for ritual purposes apart from "organ transplant"

You didn't provide any concrete evidence to support your claims that it's organ transplant being carried out by an "organ transplant network"

The evidence we have from most of the cases reported in the news of abandoned mutilated corpses in this country points towards ritual killings and not what you're speculating.

Heads, private parts (joysticks, breasts and vaginas) eyes, fingers etc ,all extremal body parts is what is usually discovered to be missing and not hearts, kidneys you mentioned. You hardly find any incision on the bodies as evidence that they were cut into to remove internal bodies parts like hearts and kidneys.

Some desperate ones amongst them even visit mortuaries and cemeteries to get the same thing .

Who is buying and translating organs from already dead bodies?

Who are the people buying and transplanting heads, joysticks, breasts, fingers eyes?

Please answer me.

Sorry to say, you not too well informed about ritual killings in this part of the world. I suspect you're relying on what you know about organ harvesters in other parts of the world to conclude about what's going on in Nigeria.

Here, whether you believe it or not,ritual killings either for wealth or other purposes is well alive and kicking and being carried out by those who believe in it. One needs to be very careful so one doesn't fall victim in areas where' it's very common.

More than 15 years ago a distant relative of mine had her tongue removed by these diabolic ritualist using human body parts. I saw the corpse myself and not that I was told.

TONYE001:
Sell the kidney for what exactly? And to who?

Hope you're not implying for transplantation.

Very good question and I hope he responds directly

Creamypie:
may be u didn't comprehend what I wrote. I mean that most mutilated corpses discovered are actually organ harvests if properly investigated, and not ritual sacrifices as people think them to be

How did you arrive at the conclusion that most are organ harvest and not for ritual purposes ?
Did you carry out your own investigation ?

musicwriter:
I believe they sell it.

No, charm doesn't work on their own. Nothing of such works without your belief. The charm instead acts like a catalyst to your success. In other words, you can already succeed if you believe you can and you work hard towards it.

For more information, see message to native doctors and ritualists- the science of jazz https://www.nairaland.com/4892922/message-native-doctors-ritualists-science

I never said it works. I said it's used for other ritual purposes by people who believe in it

musicwriter:
Stupidity is the mother of wickedness.

Each time you hear someone do this type of thing, you can be rest assured that the person is a fool.

Now, they'll say the person that sent them got rich by doing jazz. But he goes on to sell the kidney.

Kidney sells as high as $1 million dollars

It's not only for wealth.It is also used for preparing charms for protection,to win an election, win court case etc

But the question is ,Does it work?

Creamypie:
E don tey I talk am say most so-called ritual killing na disguise for organ harvest

Organ harvesting for medical purposes is not the same as ritual killings for ritual sacrifice . There's a difference between the two


Morever,the boy in that video doesn't have the training to harvest a kidney and preserve it before selling to another person needing it.

That's why they're trying to use Dangote refinery to fraudulently repay back the debt.

And it's also the reason they're fixing prices for a refinery the never built while the irresponsible government is pretending not to know what's happening .

budaatum:
They are seeing the light. Pity they waited till tithes enriched them.

Not what you think Buda
Please try to watch the video of Adeboye saying what he said about tithes

The man hasn't asked his members to stop paying tithes or did he discourage it in any way.
He now wants them to pay more because according to him the 10% is for beginners.

KnownUnknown:
Enough of your verbose nonsense.

All because,you couldn't provide reasonable defence for your irrational behavior towards the op . Mocker. SMH

KnownUnknown:
Vagueness doesn’t allow for sincere conversation as evidenced by the “spiritual paths” that “some” choose. They waffle in order to conceal that their musings are pure piffle..

I haven't argued for the profoundness of their "musings" whatever it's. You brought this up and still bringing it to deflect from why I called you out at first on this same thread.

I asked ,

are you not aware that biblical stories aren't taken as literally true by some?

You didn't give a direct answer to that and you still haven't. In fact you actually condemned the stories making it seem as if they're factual accounts that happened to real people and caused them pain and so ,nobody should be retelling them.

And I replied that, even though they're deserving of condemnation they were used to encode certain messages by the people who invented them . They're mythical stories. That's all
I'm sure you haven't forgotten all these that happened between the two of us at the beginning before you started to further deflect into other things to create confusion?


.

Of course it’s common knowledge that some things in the Bible represent something symbolically for people outside, and also within, Christianity. You are the one acting as if it’s a new discovery. .

I didn't say "some things in the Bible represent something symbolically. I said biblical stories like the story of Adam and eve and how the world was created were never invented to be taken as literally true. I have used the exact descriptive word I used at first.
Now ,show me where I said what you imagined I said above?
.

It was glaringly obvious that my literal interpretation of “land filled with milk and honey” was mockery. Regardless of the mockery, the phrase simply means a fertile land for farming, which of course is mundane. But keep the delusion going though.

You're in denial my friend. So you were mocking together with the "infantile and the insane" you directed at the op? You sure do have a very odd way of mocking others. And what does "the promise land" represent for the op? Tell me without Google search.

BTW what's even the point or how does it make sense mocking someone who has made it clear what he wants to do with he wants to narrate?

Is it not that you want to mischievously cast him in the coinage of a fanatical christian who take Biblical stories as true so you mock him for believing in talking snake or earth, which are atheists favourite weapon used in mocking Christians

And yes, you actually did that.
I have closed the matter. Focus on the Op please and let's stop derailing.

leokid866:
no our people are just greedy and love to take advantage of each other.......

I know, but what he said is half truth. He said the prices have dropped at the wholesale level which is not true. Ask him to provide evidence backing is claim concerning those food items.

CyrusVI:



Now, this is a Stats to believe, not that Statisense nonsense


I expect to see those who do not understand how to draw sound deductions from Statistical figures to come here to gnash their teeth

These are the most commonly eaten food in Nigeria, by population, we have thousands of people eating these everyday.

Its only normal to expect extortionists and greedy traders to keep hiking the prices of these goods, even when the prices have dropped at a wholesales market level

These traders/foodstuff sellers are our biggest problems

Then explain why they're now greedy compare to before

Or could you please mention when in the recent past of this country when we had more than 100% increase in the prices of those basic commodities

Don't you think you're trying to deny the very obvious fact that it's the ill advised policies of the Tinubu led government that has resulted in this current situation in the country?

And don't forget to provide evidences in your reply that the prices have dropped at the "wholesale level"

obonujoker:
Most people don't know what they are doing...

In the future, this young lady will be looking for deliverance, not knowing that her parents caused the problem for her.

Funny thing is this same parents will go to Church on Sunday

Which deliverance?
Don't condemn what you don't understand until you understand it.

KnownUnknown:
Lol, the one with the straw man arguments is you.



You assumed that the differences between Judaism and Christianity was unknown to me, which is funny because it is common knowledge. Lol, seriously!



He is about to put out his own ideas about Judaism and I can mock it all I want. Why is the even a discussion?!



I wouldn’t put much stock into what you believe.



It is infantile and insane; which also applies to you. What is the of the metaphor supposed to convey? “Mud and stick magically turned into flesh and bone when the god breathed into the nostrils of the mud-stick man” lol, that’s the type bullshit he has in mind.
Mud and stick! What a joke. He should also add grass. Mud, stick, and fucking grass. Lol



Lmao, the op was never about Judaism’s viewpoint, which can also be varied like every other religion. It’s about the op giving his own peculiar viewpoint about Judaism based on his understanding of symbolism. You are the one that introduced ATR, Buddhism, and Christianity into the topic.



Of course you won’t!! There is no ATR. Now, if you want to pick a certain belief from the continent to illustrate, you are welcome to. I deleted the rest of the verbose nonsense.



Their teachings, if fantastic, are inherently nonsense. If the teaching is allegorical, the interpretation is ALWAYS mundane. I do not have to provide any relevant data that their beliefs are baseless. If their teachings could stand up to scrutiny they wouldn’t rely on cloaks and daggers. All that razzle dazzle just fools the gullible; like you.



I’m not speculating or in the dark. I just don’t give no quarters to fantasy. I can mock because their beliefs are absurd. There is nothing profound about the conmen and their secrecy.



You are the one that attempted to derail the thread by playing lawyer to the insane.



You didn’t explain anything. Vague describes your claims perfectly.



Vaaaaaaggggggggguuuuuueeeeeeeee.



MY LEPRECHAUN IS ALSO A MEMBER.

Stay with ATR, he says. Then he says:






The phrase “mainstream scientist” is enough to disregard your claims. Regardless, neural plasticity and meditation are not fantastic so what is your point? Now if the Buddhist or you claim that some fantastic elements are involved in neural plasticity, then it would be bullshit.

All of the above is not relevant to why I called you out the first time. So I'm not answering them .Just focus on the main issue so we don't detail the thread.

And I asked again, if it's common knowledge that the Bible symbolically represents certain ideas for some outside christianity why were you acting as if you don't know this by forcing your own literal interpretation to what was being presented as that?

You haven't responded to this.

But don't bother because I can see already thar you're not interested in any sincere conversation but just looking for anything to troll with.

KnownUnknown:
Do you mean energy the same way physicists describe it?

I won't be replying to your other lengthy reply because they're not relevant to the main issue I raised which you have succeeded in deflecting from with your numerous strawman arguments that has resulted in you asking the above question which is not in anyway related to the topic of Judaism having a different viewpoint to biblical stories. However I will touch on some of the things you said.

You have finally admitted above , in the reply I said was lengthy,after pretending, that you know this fact about Judaism when you asked, "who doesn't that know Judaism has a different viewpoint"?

If it's true you truly know it, why harassing the Op at the beginning who wanted to present something that agrees with that you claim to know so well?
I don't believe you're telling the truth. You're only claiming to know it after the fact and there's evidence to prove this.

When the Op personified the earth as "giving mud and sticks" , you immediately picked on that to label him as "infantile and insane" when in fact, going by your behaviour there, you're the one who perfectly fits that description as you don't know that a metaphoric statement requires a non literal interpretation.

So going by the above,how do you then reconcile your behavior towards the Op with what you just admitted about Judaism, that it has a different viewpoint to biblical stories ?
Where you pretending?

As for the question you asked me about ATR, I won't be answering them .I have told you how and where' to get your answers. And more importantly they're not relevant to the main issue. The only reason I mentioned them together with Judaism and Buddhism was to provide examples of religion or spiritual paths that are not the same with Christianity and Islam which I describe as false religious constructs that insist their adherents accept scriptural narratives as factual.

I'm not here to discuss Judaism, Buddhism and ATR with you and it was the reason I have kept what I said about them at the surface level which your deliberately interpreted wrongly as being vague. I wasn't, or may be you don't know the difference between being vague and a description which contains an abridged version of the full details

Another thing, I never said ATR is the only traditional religion in the world. That was you misrepresenting me to score some cheap points .The descriptive word,"traditional religion" is a broad term which refers to indigenous religious groups in different parts of the world African traditional religion,ATR on the other hand specifically describes the one practice here in Africa which is not the same as the one in Europe.

I don't know what you think of me to imagine you could confuse me with that your confusion

And finally, it's your own baseless opinion that their secret teachings are nonsense or bullshit
Since you started saying that, not for once have you provided relevant data to support your criticism
Meaning that,you have been speculating wildly about what you're in the dark about and using it to mock as if you know something. SMH.
If you don't want to focus main issue, please let's end this conservation as we have been derailing the thread no thanks to your uncountable deflections.

Frankly, you haven’t explained anything but make vague claims.

I have explained to the extent I wanted to explain but you're not seeing it because the word, vague appears to be the only thing that readily comes to your mind when you read them. In any case I just explained they're not relevant. It's distracting from the main thing.

Which is why I asked which “some” you are referring to.

The "some" I said are spiritual paths that don't take the stories or fantastic tales which they tell as literally true. I won't mention names here. If you want to know as around or search for them yourselves
Their membership cuts across, both the mighty and the ordinary. Your friend , neighbor etc. But ,I have asked you to start with ATR
Oh , you said you're in is position to know. So why asking me what you should know?

So, am I supposed to be impressed by the observation that is apparent? Pray tell, who are these scientists who once believed it’s impossible to learn things past certain age.

Mainstream scientists said so before neural plasticity was observed in the brain of Buddhist monks who are adept in meditating for far longer hours. You can research and come back to prove me wrong. I will be waiting.

Thank you.

KnownUnknown:
Whether “force” or “entity”; I still don’t know what you’re talking about.

Entity suggest a being while force is synonymous with energy and that's what I'm talking about.

The same method of acquiring knowledge that resulted in the discovery will be the same method that answers the question. Maybe when they acquire enough knowledge about dark matter and dark energy astronomy present an idea.

I said you not paying attention. What I explained was something I said the ancients proposed
So the talk of them acquiring enough knowledge about dark matter and dark energy doesn't apply to them . May be you want to resurrect them to teach about what's currently known in the sciences.

Which “some” have described this force or energy as intelligent? Do these “some” have any expertise in astronomy. I doubt it.

Which of the "some "did I specify for you?

You should understand that sometimes before science comes to provide rational explanation for phenomenon there are people who already have what is labeled as spiritual explanation in some quarters for the same thing but not detailed enough to be taken as scientific explanation.

For instance, long before science accepted the possiblity of neural plasticity in the brain, Buddhist monks already knew through their meditative practices that it was possible to effect changes in one's brain to change behavior or learn new things way past the age scientists once believed it was no longer possible for that to happen.

My friend, truth is not the exclusive preserve of any group . Chinua Achebe the late popular story teller, said in his book , Things fall apart " that "life is like a masquerade dance. If you want to enjoy the show you don't stand in one place "
I see that you have chosen a position from which you want to view all of life from and don't care if you "enjoy the show" like others want to . Enjoy yourself if that's what you want.
i

KnownUnknown:
Oh really?! So Judaism that they borrowed from is original?

Not original in the sense you
think of . I don't need to repeat myself because I already explained what I meant by original when compared with Christianity. Christianity is a misrepresentation of Judaism and that's why adherents there don't have much regard for Christians .They mock them as foolish . And that may be one of the reasons we have more Christians in neighboring Palestine than in Israel

You didn’t explain anything nor did you mention any “authentic” or “original spiritual paths”. Whether you consider them “false” or “authentic”, at the end of the day, they are all fantastic.

I did. I mentioned initiates and non initiates. The process for initiation in these other groups is not the same as baptism in Christianity. And so , it's wrong to label them as fantastic when you have no single clue about what they do or teach their members. There"re some religious groups or spiritual paths that are almost atheistic in the way they operate . Atheist who are unaware of this fact are the ones who take delight in generalising that every religion is the same. Modern Buddhism,for instance has no concept of a supreme deity they belief in or worship and there's also no hell fire.But most atheist here like to talk of a Buddhist God or hell when trying to compare it with Christianity . I read that almost all the time here. Visit most of the threads created by atheist on this board to criticize religion in general and see how they only focus on Christianity or Islam because that's the only thing they know and are familiar with . Even ATR in their backyard they don't know.

Of course there is congruence. Since it’s all made up, some will naturally agree with each other while others disagree.

"Yes, they're all made up but not made up exactly the same way for you to generalise about them . I think you just don't want to accept that apart from Islam or Christianity, there's nothing much you know of any other spiritual paths or religion.

If you know ,I will see it. . What you have been doing is to reference the Christianity and its practices each time you want to give an example of what a religion or spiritual path should be. I am yet to see any evidence that you know much apart from Christianity.

Claims like the above are simply jargon unless you explain these “forces in nature” and how these people “align themselves through certain ritual practices”.
I’m aware of a few personifications of nature represented in religion and if I were to give an example, I wouldn’t write vaguely like you did.

.But of course, what you know about those representations is what you have read from a book or Googled which is not enough to make you understand it the way it should be understood just like those directly involved in it. Your explanation will expose you as an outsider since you don't have insider info

2. I never wrote vaguely, but only talk about it from the surface level. I mentioned ATR as the place to go to if you want to know how people through spiritual practices align themselves with certain forces in nature and what they truly believe in different from what the public assumes. You don't expect me to detail for you what I have been privileged to know through close association on a public forum like this, what they keep as close guarded secret. That will be irresponsible behaviour and a betrayal of trust. If you want to know get closer to them, and if need be get an initiation so all is reveal to you and be shocked about what others know that you don't

I’ve undertaken enough investigation to know that Judaism or ART isn’t less fantastic than the others. There is no hierarchy of validity in religion so your ridiculous veneration of judaism is absurd.

If you had truly undertaken enough investigation of ATR, you wouldn't have mentioned some of the things you have said so far here. I didn't describe ATR as anything. I only mentioned it to highlight the fact that what they believe in and practice is unlike Judaism which you assume I am venerating and placed above every other one. I don't rate Judaism as much as you think.

The Catholic happen to be the most successful of these ideas and my use of them is because of the well know pomp and pageantry. They are the perfect example of pretending that the mundane is profound. I could use the rabbinate and their Midrash as another example of such behavior since you value Judaism so much

You mentioned the Catholic Church because that's the only one you think is closer to what I have explained.

If I value Judaism so much as you assume,I will do t everything to join them . But I'm not interested. There's a reason I mentioned them and I don't need to repeat myself. Or have you forgotten so soon how this conversation started?

It’s all bullshit! That’s the point. The so called imitation secrets do not matter

You don't have any access to it and so not in a position to qualify as nonsense what you're unaware of. Your bullshit description is baseless.

It doesn’t matter what they do secretly or if they confirm or deny. I don’t care what the initiates of Judaism believe when I know their claims are fantastic. And if they also acknowledge “secretly” that their claims are fanciful, then the only people they are fooling would be the laity and other gullible people.

1. Judaism is not a perfect example of what I have been explaining
When I talked of initiation secrets I never had judaism in mind but AT R and some other paths i haven't mentioned . There's not much hidden in judaism. What they believe in and practice is for the most part accessible to the public..

I will remind you again that the only reason I mentioned Judaism was to let you know they have a different viewpoint to biblical narratives recorded in the old testament. That's all.

2.

So the initiates are conmen? Yea?

Hehehehe. No they're not that, but people who have earn the right to know certain secrets about life which they use for their own benefit and those close to them.

But no one claims Snow White, Macbeth, Harry Potter are real. No one creates and sustains conflict using them as support neither so they are poor comparisons.

That's exactly the point I'm driving at but you're not paying attention and like distracted student in class you have gotten it all wrong . The originator of the stories in the Bible never meant for their work to be taken as literally true. Christians were the ones who started the nonsense of giving a literal interpretation to what they shouldn't and that's why groups like the creationist movement have sprung up and been searching stupidly for evidence of the garden of Eden in the middle east.

But the ideas in Judaism such as the “promised land” nonsense can be taken literally (like the apartheid state does) or “symbolically” like the OP claims he does.

The promised land claims in Judaism has been used and still being used for land grabbing by political leaders in Israel. I believe it's not the same thing the Op has in mind. I'm familiar with what he wants to discuss about the "symbolic promised land" from having read about it in a book very long time ago. I may be wrong though. It's possible he has another interpretation. So let's hear from him first before jumping into conclusions.

KnownUnknown:
That’s just one school of thought amongst many. Some also had the idea that this singular entity was a combination of three essences (the Christian trinity is a corruption of this) etc.

Regardless, everything is a part of the same fabric ,call it universe or god or whatever else. That much is obvious. It’s not really their fault that they have been programmed but it’s irksome when the programming requires them to spread the ignorance.

I said "force" not entity. So we're not saying the same thing.

The visible universe is no doubt expanding .Science has confirmed that for us already . But the question is ,

what's behind this expansion?

What is the exact nature of this force or energy ,which some have described as intelligent, that's responsible for the ever expanding universe?

KnownUnknown:
I don’t think the idea of “false religious construct” is valid given that there is no criteria to determine whats a false or true religion.
Regarding the varied ideas held by the public and the initiates, we can also argue that there is congruence amongst their beliefs and even intra-group divisions as seen when the so called initiates start disagreeing about doctrine.

1. I used the word, false, because both Christianity and Islam are false representation of the original they copied from.
2. Your "so called Initiates" description tells me you're still using what you know of Islam and Christianity especially, to interprete what I already explained about Initiates and non initiates of "authentic" or original spiritual paths .

And there"re no such congruence that you have imagined. Yes both might share some belief but the understanding is never the same. While the non initiates are made to believe a real god or gods exist, in,the initiates who are well informed know that no such deities exist exactly they way it's described within the group. Deities in ART are simply a personification of forces in nature which the try to align themselves with through certain ritual practices.

You will have to undertake an investigation of some of these other groups to understand better what I have been explaining . You can start from Judaism or ART. Christianity won't help you at all.

You can always discover what they belief and what they symbolism and allegories mean. Regardless, their attempts at secrecy and mystery is nothing but an attempt to turn the mundane or anbsurd into the profound. The Catholic Church is favorite example of this

Your mention of the Catholic Church proves right what I said about you above. You're still seeing things through the lens of Christianity.
Yes, it's possible to stumble on some initiation secrets of these other groups through close association with its initiates,but not enough to know everything that goes on within the inner circle . And if you have the courage to tell them what you have discovered about what they do secretly,they will never admit or confirm it for you.

If the story is deserving of condemnation, then whatever message it aims to send will be distorted. It’s a successful con so it will continue.

It's deserving of condemnation to the modern public who don't know the true purposes for those narration .And no, the messages won't be distorted. What we can learn from snow-white, Macbeth or even more Harry Potter is never distorted by what we read or watch.

KnownUnknown:
Compare “creation” to “creation”. Comparing one particular story of so called creation to evolution is a false dichotomy and evolution is also not in the same class as “creation”.

Creation stories,AKA origin myths were used by the ancients to teach people of those times that the world has a begining and that it has proceeded from a singular intelligent force which is still sustaining it . The nature of this force,it was believed by them, is to seek for expansion in the visible universe ,bringing with it the evolution of every single life form it has "created"

In other words, there's no God that created the world. The singular force which is responsible for the "creation " and expansion and still expanding universe is what was personified by the ancients as God.

This is the staggering truth the average religious person whose mind has been programmed to worship an imaginary diety he thinks exist somewhere will never accept..

KnownUnknown:
I’m not stopping him from finishing what he started nor will I stop trolling him. However, the notion that “ those stories in the Bible stand for something else and he's not taking them as factual events that happened in the past” is laughable because he has shown multiple times that he takes the stories as factual until he finds it convenient to claim symbolism; just like the rest of them.
This is a person who once wrote that “kill everyone and take the virgins” means “take wisdom”. That’s the level of symbolism to expect.

Besides, there are verifiable interpretations of some of these symbolism, which none of them ever even get close to realizing.

I see where you're coming from, but try to understand that, apart from Islam and Christianity which are both false religious constructs, every other religion or most of them hold on to two messages or storyline,one for the public and the other for the initiates .

If you're not an initiate of some of these religious groups or spiritual paths that hide their true teachings from the public, you won't accept what they tell you is the actual meaning behind the tale they tell non initiates like yourself.

It won't make sense to you because your innocent mind just can't accept that a story that's deserving of condemnation should
be used by anyone to pass across a positive message . But that's what they do and will continue to do.

@ knownunknown,

Why do you think it's fair to continue to troll sonmwayina after he has announced to you, that for him ,those stories in the Bible stand for something else and he's not taking them as factual events that happened in the past. He said they are symbolic representation of messages or teachings he wants to detail here.

Every informed person knows that Christians , especially the fundamentalist amongst them , are the ones who take Biblical accounts has factually true. Moderate Christians and adherents of Judaism, from which Christianity sprang from ,have a completely different viewpoint.

And from what I have read so far here in this thread,the Op certainly belongs to the latter group .

Sorry to say, your criticism of him is misplaced Please allow him finish what he started before criticising and judging him as "infantile" or insane.

jaephoenix:
1. Bast.ard if you cannot show me that question that has been giving u sleepless night then shove it.
2. Oga, try and visit the nearest hospital around you and ask how oxygen is stored. I can't be bothered with cretarded igno.ramuses like you

You're the one still having sleepless nights over something you asked ,but now lying you have forgotten.

If you're not lying or having memory problems,why should I be the one to remind you of your own words?

In other threads, you remember everything, but on this one you're claiming not remembering, and now want to insult yourself into forcing me to reminding you ?

Are you sure you're normal at all or you do drugs to be acting this way?

Take responsibility for your own actions and search for it. I was even charitable enough to tell you where' exactly it's on this thread, yet you insist I remind you of what you typed and posted yourself.

I won't remind you again because the last time I did, you reframed the question and insisted I answer the new one. I did and the latest now is you have forgotten the question, I'm not your plaything or someone you think you can fool with your deceptive behaviour. So, discontinue with the nonsense.

Modified. Who has been discussing how or where Oxygen is stored with you? Me ?

It's now confirm you have a problem remembering . Go get some help for it.

Dangote told us everything is in the hands of NNPC.

Now, NNPC says it's in the hands of Dangote.

Whom are we to believe now?