₦airaland Forum

plaetton:
There is no way that you and I, or any 2 people can have the very same dreams, visions, out of body experiences and then arrive at the same interpretations.
That means that such experiences might occur as a result of complex fluxes in brain chemistry, memories, physical and mental stress and the general make up of your psyche.

Just like God, what you see or believe has it's origins in your psyche.

Please I would like to know if you have had an OBE before?

plaetton:
I don't need to read the post to be able to refute the argument that mind is this or that.
It's like saying that information is independent of the source.
Brain ( matter) generates consciousness ( mind). Consciousness is not independent of the brain that generates it. A foetus becomes conscious only when the electrical activity in the brain reaches a certain voltage threshold.
Consciousness, a.k.a mind, is the product of electrical activity in the physical brain.
Brain injuries in different parts of the brain helps us to understand how mind, reality and perspective are controlled by the physical brain.
Even the ' spiritual experience ' is housed and controlled and affected by a certain portion of the brain.

Pls read up on Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and the Religious experience.

Please how is consciousness the same as mind?
I noticed you have been using both terms to mean exactly the same.


Also, is there any evidence backing your claim about brain activity resulting in a foetus becoming conscious and using thoughts?

DeepSight:
You know I will - I have honour like that. But remember I also said "or something close to that."

But you said it, and I will find it.



No, one can sing a song in one's head without any sound waves.

It wasn't Lordreed but the person behind the moniker, killyaself, that declared "the something close to it".
I remember him saying something like, writing ones thoughts on paper is proof that it's material and tangible.

The same person is also behind,the knownunkown, moniker .

Lack of discipline is the cause.

BTW why do women like "throwing themselves at men who have suddenly become rich"?

Kobojunkie:
if I have to respond to any of these silly retorts then it's best I don't respond at all. what do you think?

I'm not responsible for how you think or feel

Moreover, you entitled to your own opinion just as I'm entitled to mine.

Niorte:
What you didn't realize is that, the Governor didn't just come out to make an impromptu statement. He must have consulted and agree with the state civil service. So it was not when he said it that implementation began.


His announcement should be a ceremonial after implementation.

You don't announce plan, you announce execution and implementation as a Governor.

No. That's not how it works
Minimum wage is law which everyone is already aware of.

Moreover,the governor is not operating his personal business.He's responsible to the people of Lagos state who elected him and not just the civil servants .



And so, whatever plans he has to execute especially when it comes to the issue of salary, which is definitely going to impact on the state finances, must be announced first to the hearing of everyone in the state , circular issued to those in charge of salaries before it's implemented . This is the process and not what you think should be done.

This isn't the first time minimum wage has been increased in this country . The process of implementation has not changed.

Kobojunkie:
1. One, I never said it is original to me. Two, if you are quite aware isn't original to me meaning there is nothing out of place with my use of it, then what in the world are you attempting to argue meaninglessly for?

If I decide it is, for me, about even human deities, who are you to decide whether or not I can use it in that manner or not?

2. I don't give a flying f-k about your private review of religions though as what matters is my review here which is that even those religions that place the self at the center of worship have the self as the supreme — the ultimate. You don't like that, that is your business, not mine!

3. Your confusion here is not mine or shared by me at all!

4. If you never said it cannot be plural then why are you raising an issue with my use of it in that manner? Please cut the bull already and move on if you have nothing meaningful to state here.

5. ***Yawn!***

Just saw this now.
Please mention one religion in the world that places the self as supreme deity that others within the group must worship as the one true God ?Just one if you're sure of what you're saying .

2.There's nothing like "at least" one supreme deity for every religion out there. You have asserted a falsehood which you're unwilling to take correction for.

3
If you insist on making a word mean what you want it mean different from its actual meaning which everyone else apart from you has accepted to be correct, then .........

@ Op
You lost the bet because you gambled on something you don't have enough information on and not because the governor has displayed lack of integrity .

Since Lagos State pays their civil servants every 23, it won't be possible for the 85k to reflect in the month of October because everything concerning this month salary has already been finalized as at the time the governor made the announcement .

Salaries in the public sector especially for states with a large working force such as Lagos state, is usually ready at least two weeks before payday and not in days


Your civil servant friend ishould have informed you of this fact if truly he is working with the Lagos state government or he explained but didn't understand what he said

Kobojunkie:
How in the world is the worship of the self contradictory in this case? I don't follow at all.

2. I am not including humans. The fact exists that there are humans for whom the self is the ultimate being to be focused on and none else. Some humans believe everything begins and ends with the self — the self is the God. Why in the world is stating things confusing for you?

3. I do. What law says it can't have a plural?

1. The argument model you have used about 4 thousand Gods existing and worshipped in the about 4 thousand religion in the world is not original to you. I don't think you understand it and the purpose it's meant for.

A lot of atheists and irreligious persons have been using it to question the veracity of the claim put forward by both Christians and Muslims that theirs is the only true God which is responsible for the creation of the entire universe and everything in it . It's never about human deities who are never regarded as supreme creators .

But I already said here on this thread that it's a false argument because most of the other religion in the world haven't affirmed different supreme dieties but just one which the say has different names in different languages and numerous paths humans have created to make contact with it. In other words,for these other religion there's only one God and not thousands.

I believe you don't want to accept you presented a false argument at the beginning and so brought in human deities to create confusion as a way of insisting you were correct about what you argued . No, you not.

2. You're the one trying to create confusion and confusing yourself,not me.
Humans are never regarded as supreme deities to be worshipped .So don't conflate the two all because you want to win an argument. If you know of any such supreme human creator deity or religion where' that is accepted, mention it.

3. I never said it cannot have plural. Please go back and read again. I explained "God" begining with capital letter and "god" in Small letter to highlight the difference between humans deities and invisible supreme dieties.

Well ,I think I'm done with you since you're pretending not to know the difference between a supreme diety and humans regarded as lesser deities. Thanks for your time.

Kobojunkie:
So long as the God(or Gods) in question is one's ultimate choice, it is a God.

Your latest inclusion of humans as deities to be worshipped contradicts your earlier argument that there are a thousand Gods in all of the different religion that exist in the world .

If you're now trying to include humans, then the figure should be much more higher than the about 4 thousand Gods you initially hinted at The number of individuals claiming to be deities or are regarded as such runs into millions.

So why did you stop at 4 thousand which is the estimated number of all the different types of religion that exist?

And I never used the plural form "Gods" begining in uppercase but ""gods" . in lowercase in my last reply to you .Changing what I typed is you deliberately trying to representing me.

Kobojunkie:
1. I said nothing about a supreme deity. Instead, I said that there is at least one deity to subscribe to every religion — even if that deity is the self.

2. Religions you refer to as atheistic are typically the ones with self as the center of focus — the one deity to subscribe to.

3. Again, at least one deity!

But you have used the descriptive word,God and not gods in what I responded to.

emmy512:
majority is this context is not the number of religions but the number of people in a religion

The person I quoted at first concerning this discussion said that they're over 2000 religion with each one of them having a supreme diety and an hellfire. That's the correct context and not about the "number of people in a religion"

Kobojunkie:
So, at least one different deity for each of these true religions, right?

Every religion in the world don't have a supreme diety like the two major religion of Islam and Christianity.

Some religion are almost atheistic in nature while others have a deistic viewpoint towards what's regarded as a God. Or gods are a personification of natural forces which they venerate but don't worship or pray to like Christians and Muslims.

emmy512:
but the majority do.

No, not true. The argument often repeated by a lot of atheists that most religion in the world have a supreme diety which they worship directly and an hellfire which they also threaten non believers with is founded on falsehood .

If you're asked to mention at least 20 from the over 20 thousand as support for your claim,you will struggle to come up with a quarter of that figure .

Procashtips:
Which one of the more than 2500 religions in the world is the true way to God?

If you think yours is, why?

Don't you think you'll burn in at least one out of 2499 hells if yours end up being wrong?

Every religion in the world is not insisting theirs is the only way to God or threatening people with hell.

jesusjnr2020:
Compilation Of Tithing Blunders Made By Prosperity Gospel Preachers

Over the years and decades, we've been bombarded by numerous blunders and heretic teachings about tithing from the stables of prosperity teachers, hence it behoved us to compile them so as to expose the prosperity gospel for the scam it truly is.

1. Ayo Oritsejiafor BN(former PFN/CAN president): "if you don't pay tithes you will die quickly". (Note: This was the same man whose private jet was impounded by the South African government during the Jonathan government for money laundering).

3. David Oyedepo: "Job's riches weren't secured because he didn't pay tithes". (Ironically the same Oyedepo later started blowing hot about suffering losses of millions of Naira of his church money being stolen by some of his highly placed church officials).

4. David Ibiyeomie: "Adam didn't eat any apple. He ate his tithe".

5. U.O Miracle: "If you eat your tithes, you'll die poor as Lazarus".

6. Unknown: "Jesus died poor because He didn't tithe".

7. Pastor Adeboye: "anyone who doesn't pay tithes won't make heaven". (He's since apologized for this heretic teaching though)

8. Pastor Adeboye: "Jesus was not a parish pastor. He was a world evangelist", as to why "Jesus didn't collect tithes". (Expecting an apology for this one very soon)

Compilation Video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1b68wOzBdA?si=oSCpJ7mX5osZzdT2

Please feel free to add yours if you know of any that's missing on my own compiled list.

God bless.

Let me add the one I heard long ago .
"If you failed to pay tithe your life will become very tight "

By unknown pastor

musicwriter:
Read on to see my response to that from the other guy

Im no more interested in reading since you have chosen to backtrack from why I quoted you at first .

You already agreed to my position ,even if not completely, that there are those involved in ritual killings after denying that nothing like that but only organ harvesting.

I know of organ harvesting but said it's not going on in Nigeria on a large scale as you described it.

If you want the public to believe you provide evidence. That's all.

musicwriter:
Well, if at least I've let you understand that not all killings are for ritual purposes, then I think I've been able to pass my message.

Time has changed, I believe that the killers today would be more interested in selling the organs than rituals. There's more money in organ sales than rituals.

Have a nice day

You didn't let me know anything my friend . I'm the one who has let you know something that contrary to your claim there's more of ritual killings going on than you know of.

You were very emphatic at the beginning that nothing like ritual killimgs happening anywhere in Nigeria and that was why you commended the Op for describing the story as organ harvesting, the way you prefer it,even when nothing much about the case is known to you

That's exactly how you reacted to the Op.

But after correcting that with evidence, you backtracked and admitted there's ritual killings thereby contracting your earlier claim.

Now, the same you who has nothing much to support your speculations about a mysterious secret network harvesting human organs on a large scale in Nigeria ,is the same person boasting of informing me of what exactly?

You just like to talk.

A wish you a wonderful day ahead. Thanks for your time.

musicwriter:
What are you even saying? That the killers don't remove hearts, kidneys?

Ok, see this thread is https://www.nairaland.com/8237232/kill-people-sell-kidneys-25k/

I just went through the thread and very disappointed you believed that the young man captured has the requisite medical training to remove a human heart , preserve it in good condition before selling to some agent..

Because verydarkman posted it ,it must be true?

Organ harvesting is done in an environment suited for it and by those properly trained for it and not just anyone with a knife to cut into people in a bush.

musicwriter:
What are you even saying? That the killers don't remove hearts, kidneys?

Ok, see this thread is https://www.nairaland.com/8237232/kill-people-sell-kidneys-25k/

Did you read my response at all?. I'm not ruling out removal of kidneys or hearts, but say it's not common like the main thing, ritual killings, to support your claim that its mostly for organ transplant by an unknown secret network operating at the background.

That's the summary of what I said. Please go back and read it again.

You trying to deny what's commonly seen for what's uncommon because it supports what you want to believe.

Modified. Yes hearts are removed for ritual too
So how do we know who's removing for ritual or transplant?

musicwriter:
Maybe I shouldn't have categorically dismissed all as organ transplant rings. But most of the killings are for organ transplant. It's a secret criminal network so I have no evidence to give you aside telling you the prices of the body parts are enough incentive to sell them

The evidence everyone is exposed to here confirms it's mostly ritual killings and not organ transplant as you want the public to believe.. I'm not completely ruling out organ harvesting for transplanting purposes.

But most of the abandoned corpses used for voodoo ritual ,either for money or anything else,in this country have their external body parts removed, proving ritual killings

You hardly find anything to support your claim that they were cut into to remove internal organs kidneys or heart. If that was happening it would be reported everywhere exactly as so and the public would have been aware long ago of what's exactly going on and not you coming to tell us.

Or are the organ transplant secret network using magic to remove the internal organs so it's not traceable to them?

It's a secret is not evidence and you're not under any compulsion to provide me with any evidence if you don't want to.

Argue all you like ,the truth is that it's more of ritual killings happening here than what you're speculating. Your arguments aren't convincing enough to disprove what's known to be true by most adult Nigerians who grew up in this country.

Honestly you seem to me a foreigner or a Nigerian living outside the country who doesn't know much of what happening back home. You need to investigate more and also ask question..

musicwriter:
I am sorry you lost someone as a result. But I am not talking about those taking tongues cause that's probably ritual killers. Those going to mortuaries are probably ritual killers. So, those are not the people I am talking about.

But you see those harvesting hearts, kidneys, livers, they're organ transplant rings. Simple logic should tell that they stand to make more money by simply selling it. No, they don't have to take it abroad to sell it. I also don't care whether you believe it or not too

But you never made any distinction between the two, ritual killings amd organ harvesters Infact you argued that there's nothing like ritual killings ,suggesting that people are concluding wrongly about obvious cases of ritual killings and that you know the truth which you insisted is organ transplant carried out by organ transplant network in Nigeria.

And I said and still saying no evidence from you supporting your claim. The evidence we have points to ritual killings. Dispute this with facts and evidence. That's all.

I also never said I believe in it. Please take your time to read me before replying. Thank you.

musicwriter:
I like the fact that the OP called it what exactly it should be called. There's no such thing as ritual killers. It's an "organ transplant' ring.

Heart sells for $1 million dollars

Liver sells for $800,000

Kidney sells for $400,000

Etc

There's a serious organ transplant network operating in Nigeria with worldwide contacts.

The network is what needs to be busted, but sadly, we have no secret service agency. The people who call themselves secret service officials are for sale and if you pay them money, they'll work for you. Or work for white people.

Government should launch an investigation into this to be able to stop the "ritual killers"

Don't be naive my friend. There's killing for ritual purposes apart from "organ transplant"

You didn't provide any concrete evidence to support your claims that it's organ transplant being carried out by an "organ transplant network"

The evidence we have from most of the cases reported in the news of abandoned mutilated corpses in this country points towards ritual killings and not what you're speculating.

Heads, private parts (joysticks, breasts and vaginas) eyes, fingers etc ,all extremal body parts is what is usually discovered to be missing and not hearts, kidneys you mentioned. You hardly find any incision on the bodies as evidence that they were cut into to remove internal bodies parts like hearts and kidneys.

Some desperate ones amongst them even visit mortuaries and cemeteries to get the same thing .

Who is buying and translating organs from already dead bodies?

Who are the people buying and transplanting heads, joysticks, breasts, fingers eyes?

Please answer me.

Sorry to say, you not too well informed about ritual killings in this part of the world. I suspect you're relying on what you know about organ harvesters in other parts of the world to conclude about what's going on in Nigeria.

Here, whether you believe it or not,ritual killings either for wealth or other purposes is well alive and kicking and being carried out by those who believe in it. One needs to be very careful so one doesn't fall victim in areas where' it's very common.

More than 15 years ago a distant relative of mine had her tongue removed by these diabolic ritualist using human body parts. I saw the corpse myself and not that I was told.

TONYE001:
Sell the kidney for what exactly? And to who?

Hope you're not implying for transplantation.

Very good question and I hope he responds directly

Creamypie:
may be u didn't comprehend what I wrote. I mean that most mutilated corpses discovered are actually organ harvests if properly investigated, and not ritual sacrifices as people think them to be

How did you arrive at the conclusion that most are organ harvest and not for ritual purposes ?
Did you carry out your own investigation ?

musicwriter:
I believe they sell it.

No, charm doesn't work on their own. Nothing of such works without your belief. The charm instead acts like a catalyst to your success. In other words, you can already succeed if you believe you can and you work hard towards it.

For more information, see message to native doctors and ritualists- the science of jazz https://www.nairaland.com/4892922/message-native-doctors-ritualists-science

I never said it works. I said it's used for other ritual purposes by people who believe in it

musicwriter:
Stupidity is the mother of wickedness.

Each time you hear someone do this type of thing, you can be rest assured that the person is a fool.

Now, they'll say the person that sent them got rich by doing jazz. But he goes on to sell the kidney.

Kidney sells as high as $1 million dollars

It's not only for wealth.It is also used for preparing charms for protection,to win an election, win court case etc

But the question is ,Does it work?

Creamypie:
E don tey I talk am say most so-called ritual killing na disguise for organ harvest

Organ harvesting for medical purposes is not the same as ritual killings for ritual sacrifice . There's a difference between the two


Morever,the boy in that video doesn't have the training to harvest a kidney and preserve it before selling to another person needing it.

That's why they're trying to use Dangote refinery to fraudulently repay back the debt.

And it's also the reason they're fixing prices for a refinery the never built while the irresponsible government is pretending not to know what's happening .

budaatum:
They are seeing the light. Pity they waited till tithes enriched them.

Not what you think Buda
Please try to watch the video of Adeboye saying what he said about tithes

The man hasn't asked his members to stop paying tithes or did he discourage it in any way.
He now wants them to pay more because according to him the 10% is for beginners.

KnownUnknown:
Enough of your verbose nonsense.

All because,you couldn't provide reasonable defence for your irrational behavior towards the op . Mocker. SMH

KnownUnknown:
Vagueness doesn’t allow for sincere conversation as evidenced by the “spiritual paths” that “some” choose. They waffle in order to conceal that their musings are pure piffle..

I haven't argued for the profoundness of their "musings" whatever it's. You brought this up and still bringing it to deflect from why I called you out at first on this same thread.

I asked ,

are you not aware that biblical stories aren't taken as literally true by some?

You didn't give a direct answer to that and you still haven't. In fact you actually condemned the stories making it seem as if they're factual accounts that happened to real people and caused them pain and so ,nobody should be retelling them.

And I replied that, even though they're deserving of condemnation they were used to encode certain messages by the people who invented them . They're mythical stories. That's all
I'm sure you haven't forgotten all these that happened between the two of us at the beginning before you started to further deflect into other things to create confusion?


.

Of course it’s common knowledge that some things in the Bible represent something symbolically for people outside, and also within, Christianity. You are the one acting as if it’s a new discovery. .

I didn't say "some things in the Bible represent something symbolically. I said biblical stories like the story of Adam and eve and how the world was created were never invented to be taken as literally true. I have used the exact descriptive word I used at first.
Now ,show me where I said what you imagined I said above?
.

It was glaringly obvious that my literal interpretation of “land filled with milk and honey” was mockery. Regardless of the mockery, the phrase simply means a fertile land for farming, which of course is mundane. But keep the delusion going though.

You're in denial my friend. So you were mocking together with the "infantile and the insane" you directed at the op? You sure do have a very odd way of mocking others. And what does "the promise land" represent for the op? Tell me without Google search.

BTW what's even the point or how does it make sense mocking someone who has made it clear what he wants to do with he wants to narrate?

Is it not that you want to mischievously cast him in the coinage of a fanatical christian who take Biblical stories as true so you mock him for believing in talking snake or earth, which are atheists favourite weapon used in mocking Christians

And yes, you actually did that.
I have closed the matter. Focus on the Op please and let's stop derailing.