₦airaland Forum

leokid866:
no our people are just greedy and love to take advantage of each other.......

I know, but what he said is half truth. He said the prices have dropped at the wholesale level which is not true. Ask him to provide evidence backing is claim concerning those food items.

CyrusVI:



Now, this is a Stats to believe, not that Statisense nonsense


I expect to see those who do not understand how to draw sound deductions from Statistical figures to come here to gnash their teeth

These are the most commonly eaten food in Nigeria, by population, we have thousands of people eating these everyday.

Its only normal to expect extortionists and greedy traders to keep hiking the prices of these goods, even when the prices have dropped at a wholesales market level

These traders/foodstuff sellers are our biggest problems

Then explain why they're now greedy compare to before

Or could you please mention when in the recent past of this country when we had more than 100% increase in the prices of those basic commodities

Don't you think you're trying to deny the very obvious fact that it's the ill advised policies of the Tinubu led government that has resulted in this current situation in the country?

And don't forget to provide evidences in your reply that the prices have dropped at the "wholesale level"

obonujoker:
Most people don't know what they are doing...

In the future, this young lady will be looking for deliverance, not knowing that her parents caused the problem for her.

Funny thing is this same parents will go to Church on Sunday

Which deliverance?
Don't condemn what you don't understand until you understand it.

KnownUnknown:
Lol, the one with the straw man arguments is you.



You assumed that the differences between Judaism and Christianity was unknown to me, which is funny because it is common knowledge. Lol, seriously!



He is about to put out his own ideas about Judaism and I can mock it all I want. Why is the even a discussion?!



I wouldn’t put much stock into what you believe.



It is infantile and insane; which also applies to you. What is the of the metaphor supposed to convey? “Mud and stick magically turned into flesh and bone when the god breathed into the nostrils of the mud-stick man” lol, that’s the type bullshit he has in mind.
Mud and stick! What a joke. He should also add grass. Mud, stick, and fucking grass. Lol



Lmao, the op was never about Judaism’s viewpoint, which can also be varied like every other religion. It’s about the op giving his own peculiar viewpoint about Judaism based on his understanding of symbolism. You are the one that introduced ATR, Buddhism, and Christianity into the topic.



Of course you won’t!! There is no ATR. Now, if you want to pick a certain belief from the continent to illustrate, you are welcome to. I deleted the rest of the verbose nonsense.



Their teachings, if fantastic, are inherently nonsense. If the teaching is allegorical, the interpretation is ALWAYS mundane. I do not have to provide any relevant data that their beliefs are baseless. If their teachings could stand up to scrutiny they wouldn’t rely on cloaks and daggers. All that razzle dazzle just fools the gullible; like you.



I’m not speculating or in the dark. I just don’t give no quarters to fantasy. I can mock because their beliefs are absurd. There is nothing profound about the conmen and their secrecy.



You are the one that attempted to derail the thread by playing lawyer to the insane.



You didn’t explain anything. Vague describes your claims perfectly.



Vaaaaaaggggggggguuuuuueeeeeeeee.



MY LEPRECHAUN IS ALSO A MEMBER.

Stay with ATR, he says. Then he says:






The phrase “mainstream scientist” is enough to disregard your claims. Regardless, neural plasticity and meditation are not fantastic so what is your point? Now if the Buddhist or you claim that some fantastic elements are involved in neural plasticity, then it would be bullshit.

All of the above is not relevant to why I called you out the first time. So I'm not answering them .Just focus on the main issue so we don't detail the thread.

And I asked again, if it's common knowledge that the Bible symbolically represents certain ideas for some outside christianity why were you acting as if you don't know this by forcing your own literal interpretation to what was being presented as that?

You haven't responded to this.

But don't bother because I can see already thar you're not interested in any sincere conversation but just looking for anything to troll with.

KnownUnknown:
Do you mean energy the same way physicists describe it?

I won't be replying to your other lengthy reply because they're not relevant to the main issue I raised which you have succeeded in deflecting from with your numerous strawman arguments that has resulted in you asking the above question which is not in anyway related to the topic of Judaism having a different viewpoint to biblical stories. However I will touch on some of the things you said.

You have finally admitted above , in the reply I said was lengthy,after pretending, that you know this fact about Judaism when you asked, "who doesn't that know Judaism has a different viewpoint"?

If it's true you truly know it, why harassing the Op at the beginning who wanted to present something that agrees with that you claim to know so well?
I don't believe you're telling the truth. You're only claiming to know it after the fact and there's evidence to prove this.

When the Op personified the earth as "giving mud and sticks" , you immediately picked on that to label him as "infantile and insane" when in fact, going by your behaviour there, you're the one who perfectly fits that description as you don't know that a metaphoric statement requires a non literal interpretation.

So going by the above,how do you then reconcile your behavior towards the Op with what you just admitted about Judaism, that it has a different viewpoint to biblical stories ?
Where you pretending?

As for the question you asked me about ATR, I won't be answering them .I have told you how and where' to get your answers. And more importantly they're not relevant to the main issue. The only reason I mentioned them together with Judaism and Buddhism was to provide examples of religion or spiritual paths that are not the same with Christianity and Islam which I describe as false religious constructs that insist their adherents accept scriptural narratives as factual.

I'm not here to discuss Judaism, Buddhism and ATR with you and it was the reason I have kept what I said about them at the surface level which your deliberately interpreted wrongly as being vague. I wasn't, or may be you don't know the difference between being vague and a description which contains an abridged version of the full details

Another thing, I never said ATR is the only traditional religion in the world. That was you misrepresenting me to score some cheap points .The descriptive word,"traditional religion" is a broad term which refers to indigenous religious groups in different parts of the world African traditional religion,ATR on the other hand specifically describes the one practice here in Africa which is not the same as the one in Europe.

I don't know what you think of me to imagine you could confuse me with that your confusion

And finally, it's your own baseless opinion that their secret teachings are nonsense or bullshit
Since you started saying that, not for once have you provided relevant data to support your criticism
Meaning that,you have been speculating wildly about what you're in the dark about and using it to mock as if you know something. SMH.
If you don't want to focus main issue, please let's end this conservation as we have been derailing the thread no thanks to your uncountable deflections.

Frankly, you haven’t explained anything but make vague claims.

I have explained to the extent I wanted to explain but you're not seeing it because the word, vague appears to be the only thing that readily comes to your mind when you read them. In any case I just explained they're not relevant. It's distracting from the main thing.

Which is why I asked which “some” you are referring to.

The "some" I said are spiritual paths that don't take the stories or fantastic tales which they tell as literally true. I won't mention names here. If you want to know as around or search for them yourselves
Their membership cuts across, both the mighty and the ordinary. Your friend , neighbor etc. But ,I have asked you to start with ATR
Oh , you said you're in is position to know. So why asking me what you should know?

So, am I supposed to be impressed by the observation that is apparent? Pray tell, who are these scientists who once believed it’s impossible to learn things past certain age.

Mainstream scientists said so before neural plasticity was observed in the brain of Buddhist monks who are adept in meditating for far longer hours. You can research and come back to prove me wrong. I will be waiting.

Thank you.

KnownUnknown:
Whether “force” or “entity”; I still don’t know what you’re talking about.

Entity suggest a being while force is synonymous with energy and that's what I'm talking about.

The same method of acquiring knowledge that resulted in the discovery will be the same method that answers the question. Maybe when they acquire enough knowledge about dark matter and dark energy astronomy present an idea.

I said you not paying attention. What I explained was something I said the ancients proposed
So the talk of them acquiring enough knowledge about dark matter and dark energy doesn't apply to them . May be you want to resurrect them to teach about what's currently known in the sciences.

Which “some” have described this force or energy as intelligent? Do these “some” have any expertise in astronomy. I doubt it.

Which of the "some "did I specify for you?

You should understand that sometimes before science comes to provide rational explanation for phenomenon there are people who already have what is labeled as spiritual explanation in some quarters for the same thing but not detailed enough to be taken as scientific explanation.

For instance, long before science accepted the possiblity of neural plasticity in the brain, Buddhist monks already knew through their meditative practices that it was possible to effect changes in one's brain to change behavior or learn new things way past the age scientists once believed it was no longer possible for that to happen.

My friend, truth is not the exclusive preserve of any group . Chinua Achebe the late popular story teller, said in his book , Things fall apart " that "life is like a masquerade dance. If you want to enjoy the show you don't stand in one place "
I see that you have chosen a position from which you want to view all of life from and don't care if you "enjoy the show" like others want to . Enjoy yourself if that's what you want.
i

KnownUnknown:
Oh really?! So Judaism that they borrowed from is original?

Not original in the sense you
think of . I don't need to repeat myself because I already explained what I meant by original when compared with Christianity. Christianity is a misrepresentation of Judaism and that's why adherents there don't have much regard for Christians .They mock them as foolish . And that may be one of the reasons we have more Christians in neighboring Palestine than in Israel

You didn’t explain anything nor did you mention any “authentic” or “original spiritual paths”. Whether you consider them “false” or “authentic”, at the end of the day, they are all fantastic.

I did. I mentioned initiates and non initiates. The process for initiation in these other groups is not the same as baptism in Christianity. And so , it's wrong to label them as fantastic when you have no single clue about what they do or teach their members. There"re some religious groups or spiritual paths that are almost atheistic in the way they operate . Atheist who are unaware of this fact are the ones who take delight in generalising that every religion is the same. Modern Buddhism,for instance has no concept of a supreme deity they belief in or worship and there's also no hell fire.But most atheist here like to talk of a Buddhist God or hell when trying to compare it with Christianity . I read that almost all the time here. Visit most of the threads created by atheist on this board to criticize religion in general and see how they only focus on Christianity or Islam because that's the only thing they know and are familiar with . Even ATR in their backyard they don't know.

Of course there is congruence. Since it’s all made up, some will naturally agree with each other while others disagree.

"Yes, they're all made up but not made up exactly the same way for you to generalise about them . I think you just don't want to accept that apart from Islam or Christianity, there's nothing much you know of any other spiritual paths or religion.

If you know ,I will see it. . What you have been doing is to reference the Christianity and its practices each time you want to give an example of what a religion or spiritual path should be. I am yet to see any evidence that you know much apart from Christianity.

Claims like the above are simply jargon unless you explain these “forces in nature” and how these people “align themselves through certain ritual practices”.
I’m aware of a few personifications of nature represented in religion and if I were to give an example, I wouldn’t write vaguely like you did.

.But of course, what you know about those representations is what you have read from a book or Googled which is not enough to make you understand it the way it should be understood just like those directly involved in it. Your explanation will expose you as an outsider since you don't have insider info

2. I never wrote vaguely, but only talk about it from the surface level. I mentioned ATR as the place to go to if you want to know how people through spiritual practices align themselves with certain forces in nature and what they truly believe in different from what the public assumes. You don't expect me to detail for you what I have been privileged to know through close association on a public forum like this, what they keep as close guarded secret. That will be irresponsible behaviour and a betrayal of trust. If you want to know get closer to them, and if need be get an initiation so all is reveal to you and be shocked about what others know that you don't

I’ve undertaken enough investigation to know that Judaism or ART isn’t less fantastic than the others. There is no hierarchy of validity in religion so your ridiculous veneration of judaism is absurd.

If you had truly undertaken enough investigation of ATR, you wouldn't have mentioned some of the things you have said so far here. I didn't describe ATR as anything. I only mentioned it to highlight the fact that what they believe in and practice is unlike Judaism which you assume I am venerating and placed above every other one. I don't rate Judaism as much as you think.

The Catholic happen to be the most successful of these ideas and my use of them is because of the well know pomp and pageantry. They are the perfect example of pretending that the mundane is profound. I could use the rabbinate and their Midrash as another example of such behavior since you value Judaism so much

You mentioned the Catholic Church because that's the only one you think is closer to what I have explained.

If I value Judaism so much as you assume,I will do t everything to join them . But I'm not interested. There's a reason I mentioned them and I don't need to repeat myself. Or have you forgotten so soon how this conversation started?

It’s all bullshit! That’s the point. The so called imitation secrets do not matter

You don't have any access to it and so not in a position to qualify as nonsense what you're unaware of. Your bullshit description is baseless.

It doesn’t matter what they do secretly or if they confirm or deny. I don’t care what the initiates of Judaism believe when I know their claims are fantastic. And if they also acknowledge “secretly” that their claims are fanciful, then the only people they are fooling would be the laity and other gullible people.

1. Judaism is not a perfect example of what I have been explaining
When I talked of initiation secrets I never had judaism in mind but AT R and some other paths i haven't mentioned . There's not much hidden in judaism. What they believe in and practice is for the most part accessible to the public..

I will remind you again that the only reason I mentioned Judaism was to let you know they have a different viewpoint to biblical narratives recorded in the old testament. That's all.

2.

So the initiates are conmen? Yea?

Hehehehe. No they're not that, but people who have earn the right to know certain secrets about life which they use for their own benefit and those close to them.

But no one claims Snow White, Macbeth, Harry Potter are real. No one creates and sustains conflict using them as support neither so they are poor comparisons.

That's exactly the point I'm driving at but you're not paying attention and like distracted student in class you have gotten it all wrong . The originator of the stories in the Bible never meant for their work to be taken as literally true. Christians were the ones who started the nonsense of giving a literal interpretation to what they shouldn't and that's why groups like the creationist movement have sprung up and been searching stupidly for evidence of the garden of Eden in the middle east.

But the ideas in Judaism such as the “promised land” nonsense can be taken literally (like the apartheid state does) or “symbolically” like the OP claims he does.

The promised land claims in Judaism has been used and still being used for land grabbing by political leaders in Israel. I believe it's not the same thing the Op has in mind. I'm familiar with what he wants to discuss about the "symbolic promised land" from having read about it in a book very long time ago. I may be wrong though. It's possible he has another interpretation. So let's hear from him first before jumping into conclusions.

KnownUnknown:
That’s just one school of thought amongst many. Some also had the idea that this singular entity was a combination of three essences (the Christian trinity is a corruption of this) etc.

Regardless, everything is a part of the same fabric ,call it universe or god or whatever else. That much is obvious. It’s not really their fault that they have been programmed but it’s irksome when the programming requires them to spread the ignorance.

I said "force" not entity. So we're not saying the same thing.

The visible universe is no doubt expanding .Science has confirmed that for us already . But the question is ,

what's behind this expansion?

What is the exact nature of this force or energy ,which some have described as intelligent, that's responsible for the ever expanding universe?

KnownUnknown:
I don’t think the idea of “false religious construct” is valid given that there is no criteria to determine whats a false or true religion.
Regarding the varied ideas held by the public and the initiates, we can also argue that there is congruence amongst their beliefs and even intra-group divisions as seen when the so called initiates start disagreeing about doctrine.

1. I used the word, false, because both Christianity and Islam are false representation of the original they copied from.
2. Your "so called Initiates" description tells me you're still using what you know of Islam and Christianity especially, to interprete what I already explained about Initiates and non initiates of "authentic" or original spiritual paths .

And there"re no such congruence that you have imagined. Yes both might share some belief but the understanding is never the same. While the non initiates are made to believe a real god or gods exist, in,the initiates who are well informed know that no such deities exist exactly they way it's described within the group. Deities in ART are simply a personification of forces in nature which the try to align themselves with through certain ritual practices.

You will have to undertake an investigation of some of these other groups to understand better what I have been explaining . You can start from Judaism or ART. Christianity won't help you at all.

You can always discover what they belief and what they symbolism and allegories mean. Regardless, their attempts at secrecy and mystery is nothing but an attempt to turn the mundane or anbsurd into the profound. The Catholic Church is favorite example of this

Your mention of the Catholic Church proves right what I said about you above. You're still seeing things through the lens of Christianity.
Yes, it's possible to stumble on some initiation secrets of these other groups through close association with its initiates,but not enough to know everything that goes on within the inner circle . And if you have the courage to tell them what you have discovered about what they do secretly,they will never admit or confirm it for you.

If the story is deserving of condemnation, then whatever message it aims to send will be distorted. It’s a successful con so it will continue.

It's deserving of condemnation to the modern public who don't know the true purposes for those narration .And no, the messages won't be distorted. What we can learn from snow-white, Macbeth or even more Harry Potter is never distorted by what we read or watch.

KnownUnknown:
Compare “creation” to “creation”. Comparing one particular story of so called creation to evolution is a false dichotomy and evolution is also not in the same class as “creation”.

Creation stories,AKA origin myths were used by the ancients to teach people of those times that the world has a begining and that it has proceeded from a singular intelligent force which is still sustaining it . The nature of this force,it was believed by them, is to seek for expansion in the visible universe ,bringing with it the evolution of every single life form it has "created"

In other words, there's no God that created the world. The singular force which is responsible for the "creation " and expansion and still expanding universe is what was personified by the ancients as God.

This is the staggering truth the average religious person whose mind has been programmed to worship an imaginary diety he thinks exist somewhere will never accept..

KnownUnknown:
I’m not stopping him from finishing what he started nor will I stop trolling him. However, the notion that “ those stories in the Bible stand for something else and he's not taking them as factual events that happened in the past” is laughable because he has shown multiple times that he takes the stories as factual until he finds it convenient to claim symbolism; just like the rest of them.
This is a person who once wrote that “kill everyone and take the virgins” means “take wisdom”. That’s the level of symbolism to expect.

Besides, there are verifiable interpretations of some of these symbolism, which none of them ever even get close to realizing.

I see where you're coming from, but try to understand that, apart from Islam and Christianity which are both false religious constructs, every other religion or most of them hold on to two messages or storyline,one for the public and the other for the initiates .

If you're not an initiate of some of these religious groups or spiritual paths that hide their true teachings from the public, you won't accept what they tell you is the actual meaning behind the tale they tell non initiates like yourself.

It won't make sense to you because your innocent mind just can't accept that a story that's deserving of condemnation should
be used by anyone to pass across a positive message . But that's what they do and will continue to do.

@ knownunknown,

Why do you think it's fair to continue to troll sonmwayina after he has announced to you, that for him ,those stories in the Bible stand for something else and he's not taking them as factual events that happened in the past. He said they are symbolic representation of messages or teachings he wants to detail here.

Every informed person knows that Christians , especially the fundamentalist amongst them , are the ones who take Biblical accounts has factually true. Moderate Christians and adherents of Judaism, from which Christianity sprang from ,have a completely different viewpoint.

And from what I have read so far here in this thread,the Op certainly belongs to the latter group .

Sorry to say, your criticism of him is misplaced Please allow him finish what he started before criticising and judging him as "infantile" or insane.

jaephoenix:
1. Bast.ard if you cannot show me that question that has been giving u sleepless night then shove it.
2. Oga, try and visit the nearest hospital around you and ask how oxygen is stored. I can't be bothered with cretarded igno.ramuses like you

You're the one still having sleepless nights over something you asked ,but now lying you have forgotten.

If you're not lying or having memory problems,why should I be the one to remind you of your own words?

In other threads, you remember everything, but on this one you're claiming not remembering, and now want to insult yourself into forcing me to reminding you ?

Are you sure you're normal at all or you do drugs to be acting this way?

Take responsibility for your own actions and search for it. I was even charitable enough to tell you where' exactly it's on this thread, yet you insist I remind you of what you typed and posted yourself.

I won't remind you again because the last time I did, you reframed the question and insisted I answer the new one. I did and the latest now is you have forgotten the question, I'm not your plaything or someone you think you can fool with your deceptive behaviour. So, discontinue with the nonsense.

Modified. Who has been discussing how or where Oxygen is stored with you? Me ?

It's now confirm you have a problem remembering . Go get some help for it.

Dangote told us everything is in the hands of NNPC.

Now, NNPC says it's in the hands of Dangote.

Whom are we to believe now?

He never said he approached them and they snubbed him.

jaephoenix:
1. Bast.ard , I have reminded you that I asked many questions in this thread, you should remind me the specific question that is giving u restless night but a week later, u still cannot. Who is mad between 2 of us?
2.By the way, if you wanna know how liquid oxygen is administered to patients, you pay for the knowledge(and cure your ignorance), or u check it online(and hope you get the correct method)

I don't expect you to own up to your lies.

If not that your head is not there,why should I be the one to remind you of the foolish question you asked and insisted I answer before you say anything further?

Your excuse that you asked many questions and so can't remember is as silly as the one a child caught stealing from a pot of soup would give,

You asked me just one question and not many. So stop lying to yourself
One minute,"answer the question first, the next minute , after I answered it, the same you, "please remind me I have forgotten"

Your head nor correct at all.

2. You think I'm deceived that you're medical doctor? Continue to delude yourself since you lack any form of integrity whatsoever. The fuel for your deceptive behavior around here is coming from your atheists friends who are lacking the courage to call you out each time your mediocre display exposes you as an imposter.

After declaring ignorantly and confidently to the JW that liquid oxygen can be breathed in directly through the nostril,(something you Googled). the same you now wants to teach me who how to breath in liquid oxygen you have never seen or handed except through Google. Nonsense.

I don't blame you Nairaland is a faceless forum where scammers hide behind their phones to deceive the public.Your cup will get full very soon.

jaephoenix:
Good, ignorant dolt. Since you're so brain dead you cannot remember this question I asked that is fungating in your brain.
Take care

I just saw this now

You asked a question,but I should be the one to remind you of it.

You well so?

Mr quack doctor who doesn't know how liquid oxygen is administered to patients. If you have any integrity still left in you, by now you should have deactivated this account of yours and start learning how to live an upright life.

You cannot deceive everybody here.

advanceDNA:
cliche sir....
a convenient one at that to explain thousand of years of next to zero innovation, and inventions.. why I am i not surprised you blame the blame the colonizers after decades of their exit....

Where's the cliche? Progress for any group is through collective effort. You don't seem to know that hence your wrong judgement.

I'm no longer blaming them . Why should I ? The Chinese and the Indians were colonised too, but where are they today? You never got what said at first. I explained that we were moving at our own pace until they came to forcefully put a stop to it and made us completely dependent on them for everything .. That dependency which has remained is what we should do away with if we want to make progress . They have left and they have
left. So let's start believing in ourselves like the Chinese who no longer depend on their colonisers. But when we have people like you everywhere who believe they cannot innovate due to their environment how can we progress?

how long is it supposed to take sir... thousand of years gone.... The colonizers came and many years more after the colonizers left......if the rest of the world moved at your pace, u likely wont be holding the phone u are typing with...heck! U might have died because of sickle cell or some weird disease

I already explained why you're still here and not progressed as you expect. What have you been doing ?Not much ,and it's not because you cannot do anything but you think you cannot innovate . FYI , most of the phones we use theses days are from China and your white masters whom you still worship are buying from them.

Please use your head and know we were treating ourselves with local medicines we discovered before they came. Or are you telling me we were never sick and treating ourselves before they came? . In fact your white lords had no cure for malaria when they arrived at the beginning ,and were dying like flies to the extent West Africa was called the white man's grave.

all u have is insults and a lame attempt at defending what isn't even close to mediocrity....

I didn't insult you.You haven't provided any evidence backing your claims. So what do you expect me to say? Most of the things you have described about your own version of African history matches what you find portrayed in Hollywood and Nollywood .So know insult.

first it's nollywood & Hollywood, now its my imagination......see, ur choice of words shows that u are just defending mediocrity with emotions because u think I'm insulting Africa, which isnt my context......u have nothing real to show and that's why u desperately came up with the pyramids..

It's all together, Hollywood, Nollywood and the things you have imagined. If you say it's not ,then provide your source. . You didn't live then to know what exactly happened. So, Where are you getting what you have been saying from ? Tell me.

And which is your context? You're not sure of what you're saying. You keep changing your statements. The first time,it was "limited by brain power". Later, "limited by environment" . Despite the obvious differences, you continue to say it's the same. So between the two of us who has been defending mediocrity. Stop projecting yourself thinking it would help you win an argument . No way.

And again, the pyramids is not the only thing I mentioned. I listed others too. Or you deliberately skipped them to focus only on the pyramids which has completely shattered your falsehood that our people in Africa couldn't innovate in any way ?I mentioned ancient Benin kingdom and Ghana. You ignored those ones. I even talked about trade routes.

These aren't the only evidence of innovation If you care to find out yourself and don't wait for me to spoon feed you.

counter my lies?? Lies??
..my opinions are based on my observation of existing evidence and basic human psychology

Where are the existing evidence you observed? And I don't think from what you have displayed so far you understand basic human psychology.

How am I lying when the evidence shows that Africa has almost nothing to show on the table of novel innovation with all our vast resources and fantastic environment (which u are claiming u refuted by just the pyramid ..lol this is pathetic)

Are you sure you fully understand the meaning of the word innovation? Innovation must not only be in the sciences . They are other fields of human endeavour which anyone can display innovative thinking..Learn the exact meaning of the words you keep using. I hope you won't come back with your usual context excuse? I won't repeat myself about the pyramids . If you still don't understand why I mentioned them ,then nothing I can tell you anymore.

Psychology: When u have abundance or in a comfort zone, complacency is one of the behavioural outcomes

Thank God you say it's one of the outcomes and not the only one. Humans are unique creatures. Everybody cannot act exactly the same way and that's why it's not easy to predict accurately what a human being in any given situation can do. I have talked of Dangote and others who are still thinking of ways to increase their wealth despite the abundance they're swimming in. So you see, you don't fully understand human psychology but pretend you do.
All of Europe isn't equally developed. What's the reason if it's true, according to you,their environment is suited for innovative thinking ? Or is it that some parts of Europe have abundant natural resources like Africa hence they couldn't keep pace with the development going elsewhere in that continent?

abundance which was supposed to blessing technically became a limitation.......because there is a popular saying that necessity or need, drive thinking, invention and innovation..

And finally ,your own cliche. Necessity.......Hehehe .

Now , it's no longer your brain that limited you,but abundance.

Look let's leave the olden days and look at all the African nations ..or let's narrow it down Nigeria..The moment we had abundance of oil....what happened...we became complacent, consuming, consuming, consuming....Like the thousands of years ago all over again.....no reason to think new means of survival
..and the bad part is..u and some others are still blaming colonizers and religion.....

Nigeria is not the only oli producing country in Africa
So don't narrow it down to create another false argument. Since you're taking about blacks in Africa, which you say is your context, stick to that and include what happened elsewhere . Did others acted the way we did? If they didn't,then you have no point.

And you have come with another one again. Are you sure I blamed religion? BTW which religion?

Lol..... hallelujah!!! I'm happy u know ur history, And it's weird that it was just the pyramids u were quick to mention out of all those amazing technologies,and engineering, and advanced medicine your ancestors came up with thousands of years ago....sigh!!

I said if you still don't understand why I brought in the pyramids then I'm afraid you won't be able make sense of anything I will explain or even make any sense yourself. It's not an insult.

And please don't misrepresent me. I never described them as " amazing" You're the one doing so for reason best known to you.

advanceDNA:
...oh! So u have not started believing in yourself?? U that had plenty tech and pyramids while while naked thousands of years ago?? LoL

Anyway..while u are at believing yourself...at least try and move past the the victim card... Ur colonizers left you decades ago...

But hey!! If you can't come up with another pyramid.......u can just use excess or borrowed cash and government backing to reproduce already made products like ur Dangote..... It's all good

Progress for any group is collective effort and that's why I use the pronoun, we. It cannot be by own personal effort, but all of us which includes you.

The colonizers didn't develop overnight. It took time. You don't know this because your head is filled with the things you watch on Nollywood and Hollywood which are false representation of history.

I need to hear things based on facts and not what you're imagining and interpreting wrongly about your environment

And again the pyramid,I mentioned was to counter your lies we were moving about naked because we couldn't innovate. So stop the unnecessary wailings.

If you ancestors were going about naked, mine wasn't. I know my history, you unfortunately don't.

advanceDNA:
Lol...I even told u why I sighed sir....but u chose to play a condescending game...opinion is free



Why would I want to stress myself over what I'm not getting paid...u ddnt get it....it's fine.. i ddnt mention u....u came to my mention...sir

This is no more important now and you cannot manipulate me with your accusations of condescending. Cut the crap and stick to defending your claims. That's all.
.

lol.....okay..I realize now that you are some kinda self appointed word police that check people for using words the way they want......So what will be my count charge and penalty? because all this ur challenging is of no use other than an opportunity to be condescending..

All of these is no more relevant. We have passed this stage. Focus on the main thing. I only wanted you to make clear your explanations by using the proper descriptive word. What you think you have communicated is different from what others have made of it. And I have shown you that from your own statements which keeps changing all the time. No consistency and clarity,not to talk of the logicality that's also absent.
.

this is fvnny, I must confess....
..

Everything is funny to you.

hiding...?? lol....
Again..u are very hilarious..
what would I be hiding from...I wasn't even interested in talking to u initially..u were literally pleading for a response when I sighed...

What concerns me if you're not interested in talking to me? I didn't beg for you to reply me. The plea was for you not to sigh again when replying since I expected you to reply ,and not that I begged you to reply . If you feel too important to reply anybody here, I said go and create your personal blog. Nairaland is an Open forum where members are expected to reply each other to keep the conversation going.So why should I beg you?

lol.....I see you are offended
By my context...I apologize for vexing you.

You didn't offend me. So, keep your apologies to yourself and focus on defending your claims if you want to continue doing that..

well, if u have not noticed africa is largely a consumer and less a contributor to the list of innovation, and inventions the world is enjoying....I mean when the rest of the world was coming up with laws, and theories, and principles, which guided old and modern inventions, a large part of Africa was barely clothed....

Before now we were not what you described above, consuming without producing. Go and find out about the trans Sahara trade routes and other trade routes that existed in ancient Africa to know we were producing and selling to the outside world using local technology we developed ourselves before colonialism came to disorganize us. We also used certain laws and theories to guide what we produced,but not documenting it and giving it the scientific names you're used to now. I'm sorry to say your understanding of what science and technology means is very casual. I said before ,that technology began in Africa. You have refused to confirm that.Most of the things you have argued are based on what you have imagined.

you were literally demanding for a response...I felt u needed to be told no one owes you anything before managing to respond to you sir

My friend, I didn't beg for a response,and only pleaded you don't sigh again if you feel like responding. And BTW ,what do you think of your self? What reasonable thing have you said that would make me want to beg you for any response?
.

sigh!! U seem to want to be in control of what pple say and bow they say it ....I don't get why?? I explained u what said initially and maintained it....I don't know this is an issue for u sir?? It's funny and weird..

I'm not trying to control you. Your responses keeps changing. I want you to be consistent so one knows where you a
exactly you stand on the matter.

so whats the difference?? If u are offended.... I'm sorry for saying the same thing in a different way..u don't have to agree though

but I thought I have already explained what I meant that the "black man's" environment limited innovative and thinking abilities compared to the whites ..
See...I won't do this again...that's why I kept sighing...it's tiring exchanging words with you because u seem to want to read it in a particular way that u want...

1.If you cannot see the difference between the two statements, then it would be really difficult for you to make further sense on this matter and I'm discontinuing the conversation after now, but not without debunking your lies about your own African people whose past history you know nothing of.

2. You first statement was , "the fact is that blacks have limited brain power due to their environment", then later you changed it to "limited by their external environment without mentioning the brain.

3. If you still struggle to see the difference, show the two statements to any of your friends to help you see it. The limited brain power you have accepted about yourself may be the reason you still cannot see it.

your own pace with all your vast resources and convenience ?? Ur own pace?? This is really fvnny.....when the world was already flying in the air with hot air balloons, using better medicine, and developing impressive engineering, etc....u are saying you were developing at your pace....??

You still don't get it. The period they were inventing some of those things was when they kept us under subjugation. If they had left us to develop at our pace, we would not be where we are today. If someone makes you completely dependent on them, you become useless and not able to anything for yourself without their assistance. And that's what has happened to Africa.

That's the thing u guys ....never want to admit...our environment had too much abundance right from the start even now, we had no reason to think and develop, we were complacent..even now...which was what drove my comment that seems to be annoying you.

You haven't annoyed me , but displaying lazy thinking which you have to be conscious of. Abundance cannot stop you from using your brain to develop. I talked of Dangote who's abundantly rich but still thinking of how to acquire more wealth. You rejected it because you failed to grasp the reference.

.it was a horrible pace...and it is evident now that the world is a global village, technology is shared, and further innovative applications are being developed, we are still stuck in the old age of only consuming, consuming, consuming

You call it horrible pace because you're using current standards to judge the past. We were not only "consuming, "consuming consuming" in the past but also "producing producing producing" for the outside world to buy. You're completely ignorant of your past history and using the present to Judge. You have missed it . Colonialism has made our people completely dependent on outsiders for what we can equally produce ourselves. People like you would choose anything foreign,even if it's toothpick over what's produced locally here because that's how your mind made has been programmed to like.

sigh!!! My intention was not to make degrading comments....if u don't get the context ...that's fine... If it's annoying to u and triggering you...that's really your cup of tea

You're not in any position to degrade me with any comments of yours and moreover you didn't set any proper context . There's no consistency in your explanations.

I can only pity you for the lack of awareness you have been displaying so far . "Triggering and annoying" is another attempt to project yourself .

victim card as usual...they left you since 1960......how far since then?? by the way, Ethiopia was reported to never have been colonized.....again...how far??

It's not victim card,but having people like you everywhere working against others who want to do the right thing. When most of you have completely accepted that you're incapable of innovative thinking because of your environment,how to you expect to progress.

When you don't know that it was in Ethiopia that technology started in the world, how can you know why they aren't as developed as the Western world. Every parts of Europe is not equally developed . So what's the reason? Tell me

victim card again....alot of places were under forced rulership...even Scotland and Ireland were under the Brits.....

It beats me how you want to make comparison between what happened in Africa with those places. Colonialism here was very brutal. Your people were sold has slaves, their resources plundered mindlessly and their religion superimpose with a false one which made them loose what unites them spiritually . Till today we're still reeling from the effect of all of that. As a Christian, you have lost your authenticity as an African. So how can you know the secrets hiding here and make progress? "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery "

A slave cannot make real progress.

lol.... Oh so now the narrative is that the whites stole ur technology?? This is funny....

I didn't say they stole our technology but plundered the golden stools we made using local technology. Go back and reread

yawn!! Condescending as usual, that's ur aim all along....I'm happy you are happy

You can easily see condescending in others but cannot see it in your behaviour towards me .

hallelujah!!! Africa had all the technology that translated to almost nothing...and hey!! many parts of africajust chose to live primitive.... yawn!!

This is a straw man from you.I never said we had all the technology.Your argument was that our people of the past where' not innovative in thinking, and no where near developing . The picture you painted was that they were living in the wild like savages without any form of clothing to cover themselves until the whites came. I have countered that falsehood of yours by providing instances where we displayed innovation using local technology we invented as at that time. You won't have it because it doesn't agree with the false narrative you have been brainwashed with and now spreading here.

ur local religion?? Nigga u guys are still killing ur fellow man for rituals in the name of local religion....gosh!! , u murdered thousands of twins because they were an abomination to ur gods, u buried live humans with kings because the gods of ur religion said so.......lol.... I don't know cheap point u aimed at scoring with bringing up African religion but it's not looking good for you......in a desperate attempt is just making u sound backward.....

Ignorance speaking again here and it's even coming from someone whose God ordered the killings of innocent babies and pregnant women, and wouldn't have forgiven you if his only begotten son"s blood was not spilled. You're worshipping a blood thirsty diety, Jehovah, and still open your mouth to say things not true about traditional Africa religion.
The killing of twins and other things you mentioned were never ordered by any God or gods our people venerated. You're confusing cultural practices and voodoo with ATR. Some of your pastors and most of you Christians usually visit some of these witch doctors secretly for help when blood of Jesus has failed you. .Is it Jehovah ordering you to visit the babalawos?


Gods in ATR are a personification of natural forces. So no real God has or is ordering them to do anything. The Supreme deity, Olodumare ,Chukwu etc, from the viewpoint of ATR is regarded has unknown. That's why you won't find any shrine dedicated to them. It's Jehovah who has ordered the killings of innocents that's worshiped in churches,and needs money from you to take care of himself .
You don't know anything about your people and what you think they're worshipping.
.

lol.....ur are getting desperate.... this man wants to claim ancient egypt as part of the Africa that ddnt wear clothes ....please sir dont be desperate.

I have provided you with facts to clear your ignorance and you're calling it desperate?

what has the pyramids translated to for your Africa Cos I know what Charles law, newtons law, Archimeds principles has translated to

The pyramids countered your falsehood that we were never innovative in thinking .
Charles law, Newton"s laws etc are just names for discovered laws which already exist in nature. They didn't not invent it or create it . They were discovered.They observed it in nature and employed it. . Our people in the past also discovered similar laws and used it too and that's why you have something like the pyramids.

See oga.....If pyramids are all you have as bragging rights u should know have realized are just clinging to straws sir......

I'm not clinging at straws. You're saying that to console yourself. Pyramids is not the only thing I mentioned. I talked of the idea to come up with street lights by the ancient Benins as evidence that we could think and not challenged by our environment.

So here you have it. We can progress much more than we're currently doing if we start to believe in ourselves.

advanceDNA:
Sigh!! (this time I'm sighing because ur response is all over the place and tiring)...because if i dont, it will be another problem..

First... u should know nobody owes you a response online...U say so many words in so many direction without getting the context of the comment you are mentioning and you now funnily demand a response like you are talking to a child or houseboy........ It's condescending...

1. You're sighing again because I suspect you're unable to critically analyze what I said and respond appropriately, and not because I have said anything wrong .Sighing has become a coping mechanism for you .

2. If I took your words out of context and you were very sure of that, why then did you not provide the context immediately after?. I didn't start the conversation with you, another person did. And even if I did, context doesn't give you the liberty to use words inappropriately. You're not talking to yourself,but writing for the public. So you must carefully select words that fits into the context of your writing ,if not you create confusion.

Please take responsibility for the ambiguity in your comment I highlighted for you the first time and stop hiding behind context and projecting yourself.

Use the more acceptable descriptive word, Africans, and not Blacks. You were called both be your colonial masters and it's now considered a racist slur to refer to Africans as blacks in most online forums. If it were Facebook you wrote that nonsense, "Blacks have limited brain power" which is a lie, your account will be placed on suspension when reported.

3 Finally I never said you owe me any response. You have been replying the way you like and I expected you to respond but pleaded you respond respectfully. If you were not going to do so ,no need responding to tell me . Just remain shut. This is not your personal blog.

Okay......it's like u read only a part of comment and used it to play ur right or wrong game the first time..

I haven't played any right or wrong game. I only called you out so you disambiguate the vague statement you made.
You have made that clear by defining the blacks you were referring to . Why still going back to it ,instead focusing on main thing?

my first comment that u mentioned carried the context that black man has always been limited by the environment he's forged in compared to the whites whose environment naturally drove them to invention, innovation, and development..(if u ddnt miss the context u wont be expecting me to explain separately that i mean africa).... Wait fess...let me explain the reason for the comment since u say I am wrong or generalizing....

And you have just departed from what you asserted initially. Why can't you be consistent for once?

Go back and read what I reacted to which has caused this,and see the exact thing you said and see it's completely different from this latest one.
You declared that " Blacks have limited brain power due to the environment they grew up in.
Now, you have changed it to "Black man has always been limited by the environment he's forged in"

Limited by your brain , which is internal cause, is not the same thing as limited by your external environment.

You're creating confusion making it difficult to know where exactly you stand. You have the problem of not being able to effectively communicate what you want to say .

i made this comment because the person i mentioned was sayimg religion was used to prevent us from growing....but it's the same bible they use in europe and Quran in saudi and dubai...
Besides we were never anywhere near developing even before the bible came.......we ddnt even wear clothes at some point becos of our hot weather, we had no reason to think and innovate because of abundance of food, good weather, meat, fish through out the year...etc..
Which was why I said necessity is the mother of invention.....our environment was great but it limited our inventing, thinking capacity from the beginning....saying religion that came thousands of years later that met many years later limited us is weird to me.....

But u took the context of my comment else where and started talking about Dangote...

. Another round of falsehood. We were developing at our own pace until the colonial masters came to disrupt it . Yes, we had some good from it, but not something you celebrate and use to make disparaging comments about your own people of the past

It was give and take. The Europeans massively benefitted from us too. They exploited both human and natural resources we have in abundance to develop their own lands while preventing us from doing so for ourselves . Now in your ignorance you believed it was because we lack the capacity to think or innovate.

How can you be innovative in the presence of those who forced their leadership on you and want you to depend completely on them?

Before several parts of Europe were lit up, the ancient Benin kingdom in Nigeria had street lights at night lightning up everywhere. Is that not innovative thinking. And the people there where not going about naked. They had cloths of different materials which they made themselves through weaving techniques passed on from generation to generation.

What of the Ashantis in Ghana who came up with local technology used in producing golden stools which the whites came to plunder.

It's a shame you're regurgitating half truths about your Africa and Africans due to crass ignorance of what actually happened in the past.

You don't even know that technology began in Africa

SMH



At some point too the whites were not fully clothed in their environment. I hope you know that? They came here to impose their dress code on you instead of allowing you use what you created yourself and in your ignorance you believe if not for you then we would be going about naked till now.

Your local religion is more better and authentic than the false religious construct of Christianity they brought to you.

Modified. What of the pyramids built in Egypt? Or are you one of those who think Egypt is outside the continent of Africa ?

The pyramids are one of the wonders of the world. Till today scientists still cannot explain how it was built by ancients Africans.

advanceDNA:
Sigh

You're lost for words? Why?

I'm not disagreeing and agreeing with you at the same time, and we aren't saying the same thing. I will explain again for the last time., Please take your time to read and respond appropriately.

You said we should accept the fact blacks, which you didn't specify at first,have limited brain power because of the environment they grow up in. I rejected that falsehood,and then try to make you understand that apart from your claim lacking any form of scientific backing the environment hasn't limited our brain power. We have it in abundance and that's why some, if not most, of us can easily and instantly use it outside shores of the continent where' there are abundant opportunities to take advantage of . One cannot give or make use of what one doesn't have already .

I have money in abundance where I currently find myself ,but cannot spend it enough so people know I have it is not the same thing as I don't have it or have it in limited supply due to the environment I find myself. Please reread this statement over and over again.


Dangote is one the richest black man even richer than most White billionaires. He was born here and started his business in this country.

Now ,he just built one of the largest refineries in the world ,something those who grew up "perfect environment"would only dream of achieving in their lifetime. If you also look around, you will find other blacks excelling in the continent. Look at our doctors who were trained in this same environment doing wonders outside..

So my friend, stop putting the blame on external circumstances and persons around you.This kind of talk is not too different from what some superstitious people believe. That witches and wizards in their environment is why they struggle to make it in life. There"re those who even believe witches can limit their brain power by hanging it somewhere in a coven. But that's simply not true.There's a proverb here in Africa that says, it's in the presence of witches and wizards a king is born.

External circumstances cannot limit your brain power unless you allow it. And I'm afraid you're allowing it and want to others to allow it too.


Please respond the right way and not sighing . It's disrespectful to be doing that all the time.

jaephoenix:
I'm not being evasive. I have told you I don't know the particular question youre referring to. Please if you have nothing else to say concerning the question , stay off my mention. Thank you

I will gladly stay off your mention since I don't enjoy engaging those who derive pleasure in being dishonest by pretending not to remember the question they reframed and asked in the page before this one.

advanceDNA:
Please sir....u have not answered this question.....how do say an opinion is wrong yet still say you not disagreeing with the opinion??

I have answered you already. I said the sweeping statement you made about black people everywhere was not true. I didn't agree with you and still agreed at the same time.No I never did that. The reason you think I agreed with you is because what I said after rejecting your generalisation about black people everywhere matches what you actually wanted to say.

By the way....My comment was clear that the environment of the black man which is Africa limits his brain power... U said I was wrong....Okay..no problem...i don't have problem with being wrong....

You have just corrected yourself here. You never mentioned Africa in what I responded to . If you did I wouldn't call it generalisation .

..but u ended up saying the same thing that the things in the environment of black man limits him..that many blacks thrive in other environment...Is that not the same thing.... ?? But u seem to be desperately trying to make ur comment different as u started accusing me of generalizing....honestly sir...i dont get you..

You have fixed the problem

How do you expect a black man reading from Jamaica or The US to react to what you said about blacks without you specifying it ?You didn't mention Africa.. Did you? No

If u want to insult me that I don't know the meaning of generalizing and I have difficulty in understanding....that's fine...I accept ur insult

I'm not insulting you. Everything is clearer now . So apologies for the way I responded earlier on. If you had mentioned Africa, then it wouldn't have resulted into this.

Ok then, Blacks in Africa don't have "limited brain power". Your own very words in quotes. I'm rejecting your claim.

The have it in abundance, but underutilized due to limited opportunities available for that to happen.

Moreover the science doesn't support your claim. So how do your arrive at the conclusion about blacks in Africa..

What's brain power. How did you measure it to know who has it more or less?

advanceDNA:
Sir....i don't understand what you playing it

first ...u said was that I was wrong..then u tried to give a counter comment that only sounded like u are agreeing whit what I earlier said about the black man's environment affecting him

Then u started getting defensive that u never disagreed....

Please sir....how do say an opinion is wrong without disagreeing with the opinion??

. U are are playing with words like you are trying to escape something.....i dont get it

I'm not playing at anything.

I said you generalised about black people and their environment and asked you to be specific.
Or you don't know what it means to generalise and because of that you're finding it difficult to understand me?

Apart from the generalisation, I said no evidence whatsoever that blacks anywhere have limited brain power..You said "limited brain power". Your own very words.
You're a black man . Do you accept you have limited brain power ?

jaephoenix:
Bro, this thread is like 7 pages. And I asked several questions here to Aemmyjah(which he ignored, btw), so which one is it?

I'm not Aemmmyjah whom you asked "several questions". The initial question you asked, which I even screenshot , and posted here has been read by you .


And just yesterday on the previous page, you reframed it and I have answered again,yet you want to pretend. You're deceiving yourself, not me.

Being evasive is dishonesty.

advanceDNA:
Sigh

Don't sigh. Communicate if you have anything to say.

Alphamentips:
advanceDNA

you made mention of how I think I know better than theists and all...

One question, why would you want to hold a book written around 200 AD and hasn't been revised for once as a reliable source of info in the 21st century over current information available to everyone online?

And the Bible you know today is not the same as the original Torah. It's doctored and now a political tool. Bro use Google. I'm out

Do you think you know better than "theist and all" who don't subscribe to The Bible?

advanceDNA:
Lol....first u disagree by saying I am wrong about the black man's environment.......then u indirectly agree by listing the problems of the black man's environment that limits his brain power and then further confirm that he thrives outside his environment....

Okay sir..

No I didn't disagree. It's you who can't see your generalisation about blacks. Are blacks only found in Africa?
You said blacks have limited brain power.

And you never specify the environment.

advanceDNA:
Religion is practiced everywhere ....I'm sure uve traveled abroad.....Issac newton was a Christian, many founding fathers of science are strong Catholics, Jews, etc....so why is that it's mostly us Africans that complain religion is preventing us from knowing what is good and developing it.... or we blame the whites that brought it here for using it limit us from developing

... is it not the same bible and Quran they read over there and are still developed? Abi is Saudi and Dubai not a nation??

What u guys don't want to admit is that the black man is limited in brain power mostly because of the "good" environment he's forged in..
....my oga...necessity is the mother of invention.....it's no surprise that the corner of the world that has the harsh snow weather first thought of creating fridge.... it wasn't a thirst for cold water that drove the thinking for this invention...

The bolded isn't true. There's no scientific support whatsoever for your claim.

Poor education ,poverty ,and leadership problems are the major reasons blacks in Africa aren't making much progress.
Outside the continent, blacks are excelling .

jaephoenix:
What was my initial question

You asked it and so should know it.

jaephoenix:
How did I change goalpost?
Please answer the question I asked you

Hehehehe.

You just found a way to escape after so many back- and- forth.

Why did you not ask me exactly the same question you're now asking before this time?


I never explained anything suggesting that the various
forms of oxygen being discussed here aren't of the same element. So , why questioning me about what I never announced to you?


You thought I wanted to challenge or prove you wromg at the very beginning . That was never my intention . I also directed the same explanation to the JW , and I'm sure he later understood me , but you ,no way and now want to turn it into a fight.

My friend. I not here to support the person who wanted to use Oxygen has evidence for spirit. It's not what you think..

Ok then, they're all the same element.

What next? Tell me

I'm waiting

Then I will ask you my own too and hope you reciprocate.