₦airaland Forum

Maynman:
Illiterate, before you take someone to court you have to tender an explanation on oath on what the said person did, and your explanations have to match with current reality.
Even if you are raped you still have to provide some form of EVIDENCE.

Off point and wayward as usual.

If you are taken to court for an offence you didn't commit, you will need to defend yourself.

You don't just plead innocence and expect the judge to rule in your favour.

Maynman:
Who brought the claim that “gods” exist and we should believe they exist?

Go ask your father you insult everyday.

I don't want to consort anymore with nairaland latest madman, sorry Maynman

LordReed:
That's why the question is for him to answer.

How ?

I Judge should side with you over something that doesn't concern him?

I don't think I understand you yet.

Maynman:
You are a dullard; a judge does not work on belief but facts and knowledge.
How will you explain to the judge why you don’t BELIEVE in a word called “god”?
If you are a reasonable judge, won’t you be asking the theist why someone has to BELIEVE in it, why can’t we KNOW?

Then present your facts and knowledge for the judges to decide in your favour without biases or shut up .

It's because the analogy is lost on your dead brain, you are insulting yourself.

LordReed:
Well Workch says you need to bring evidence against what you don't believe.

I think he didn't put it well.

Both you and the theist are the ones to present your case for judgement by the agnostic who is acting like a Judge now.
Judges are expected to be neutral .Is that not so?

The matter doesn't concern the agnostic. It's between you and those you are opposed to.

So defend or prove your case beyond reasonable doubt. That's all.

LordReed:
Did I say differently? If you don't believe what evidence do have against it with respect to what you said: “if you don't believe it bring an evidence against it. ”

You can only provide that when you have taken a position.

I neither believe nor disbelieve you means neutrality, zero. Nothing to give until I can be sure

Maynman:
When will science work to find out if Santa exist?

When loonies like you continue to report it everywhere.

Maynman:
What does this mean “ By the time millions of people worldwide starts reporting the same thing, then it's time for science to intervene.”?

where did they gather enough data and evidences to work with?

Your ignorance will be exposed here, dullard.

You are losing your mind .

Go meet the quack doctor to treat you.

Labeling others ignorant doesn't make them that.

It's what you say and do.

So look to yourself.

Maynman:
You are a dullard, your house is burgled is that a belief or a established fact?
So when it comes to the word “god”, what is the established fact in it, then we will know the EXACT GOD that created the world.
Illiterate!

I don't blame you.

This forum is faceless . So you can insult. But I tell you, it's not what you think. You might be surprised.

I have strong reasons to believe my house was burgled by a thief, but not certain who exactly is the thief, and that's because no evidence to confirm.

If I have no evidence it's wrong to accuse and arrest anyone as being responsible, but people do that all the time.

This is the main thing I want go get across ,and not the fact of it being burgled.

You didn't read very well before barking.

I told you already, stop with this nonsense to score cheap points in order to give yourself airs.

You are have been the only one trying to misinrepresent me here, but you will continue to fail .

Maynman:
People reporting the same thing worldwide does not make it an overwhelming evidence.

No it doesn't. And where did I say so?


I said before scientists starts to investigate anything,, they most have gather enough data, evidences, to work with.

I never said the data is prove already. The data they collect is what they interpret to know the truth.

You like to overreach yourself yet you know nothing.

Agnosticism is usually difficult to make sense of by both the fanatical theist and atheist. I said so before and I'm repeating it again, but this time with another simple explanation that may help in understanding.


An agnostic, unlike the theist and atheist is not stucked in one position. He is willing and open to view reality from all sides to get the complete picture. And that's why agnostics scientists are the best compared to others. They hardly bring in their biases when interpreting evidence in front of them.

For instance If there is evidences which points in the direction of god or the supernatural, most atheist scientists would be loath to look into it because of the fear it might negate their position and prove them stupid in the eyes of theist.

The same thing is applicable to theist who would also ignore what negates their position.

Agnostics have nothing to lose or fear. They don't hold on strongly to anything. But this doesn't mean they don't sometimes have valid reasons to believe or not to believe in something until concrete evidence is found ..

For instance, If my house is burgled in my absence, I have strong reasons to believe a thief did it, but no evidences to immediately know who exactly is the thief. So I remain neutral and don't suspect anyone until I know the truth because the person I strongly suspect may turn out not to be responsible or is responsible in the end.

So we can see from the above, people can have a valid reason for what they believe in until they have evidence which may either confirm their suspicion or prove them wrong



If you say you see a dragon over another's head, which others can't see, and you can't provide, either a poweful reason or evidence for what you claim to see ,why should you expect anyone to take you serious?

It's really disappointing seeing how some people who pride themselves of being rational thinkers behaving on this thread

You don't just claim something and without any reason whatsoever in support, you want others to prove it's true or not. What kind of reasoning is that?

Religious people have provided reasons why they believe in a god which is not yet proven to exist.

If you have counter reasons why they shouldn't believe in such gods, why dont you let them know respectfully instead of clowning yourself with unreasonable monsters and dragons nonsense that doesn't move them.

Well this is not for everyone. I know a lot of atheist who support and tolerate religious people.

Militants atheist are not different from boko haram terrorist. The same mindset they both have. An intolerant gang of irritants.

An intolerant person is the same everywhere. You cannot live with them.

I have spoken. You can come at me if this triggers you in anyway.

jaephoenix:
But you and your agnostic gang were quick to dismiss my claims of existence of the dragon. You didn't do any research whatsoever. Not even a question about its properties or attributes. You dumped all of it into the trash can. I feel hurt

Yours shouldn't be talked about yet since you are the only one seeing it.

By the time millions of people worldwide starts reporting the same thing, then it's time for science to intervene.

That's how it works in the sciences.

Scientists don't just go about investigating every single claim people make . It's only when the evidence becomes overwhelming they look into.

And besides there are things which falls outside the purview of science to investigate.

Can invisible beings be scientifically proven to exist?

Science says no.

What do we do then ,we can choose to believe or not to believe or even do nothing.

Just ignore completely.

jaephoenix:
You know, as a physician, I get many patients telling me they hear from gods, and that they see and walk with them always. We usually slap labels of schizophrenia, delirium tremens etc on them and put such patients on antipsychotics and sometimes for extreme therapies.
Oddly enough, that's exactly what many pastors and Christians claim: see God, talk and walk with him etc. But the same physicians and psychiatrists that prescribed antipsychotics, would bow before such pastors and envy them.
Maybe I shouldn't be hasty in smacking those antipsychotics on those patients. I should just research and find out if they are actually seeing and hearing things. Maybe medicine and science has been wrong all this while.
Religion plays tricks on us all .

It's not the fault of science but your inability as a medical doctor to diagnose properly your patients to know what is responsible for what they claim to see.

If you can detect the cause, then you proceed to treat, if not, wait until you know before doing anything. You don't just start administering drugs anyhow which they may not even need.

Ordinary lack of sleep, or cerebral malaria can make people see things ,even to the extent of seeing what they think is a god. In such a situation it's not their religion that's responsible ,but an underlying health condition which has brought on such visions or delusions.

Once the cause is addressed everything returns to normal.

And it's very unethical of you as a medical doctor to mock anyone for their mental health challenges anywhere no matter what. Psychiatric doctors are not known for that. Well ,it may happen in Nigeria, but elsewhere very rare.

Most of your patients, if you are actually what you claim to be, I think you are a quack, sees you as the only person they can talk to about their condition since you have presented yoursellf as the only who can make them make sense of what they are currently experiencing .Family members and friends would certainly have been avoiding them because if it.

So imagine if one of them happens to be here on nairaland reading how you actually feel about them, what do you think would be running through their minds now, and their reaction when next they come to you?

See, you are pathological liar who forgets the things he has said in the past.

Before now, you admitted you only had interest in psychiatric medicine ,and you were another kind of doctor.

Forgetting that, you now want to present yourself as a psychiatric doctor.

You really need help.

You cannot deceive everyone about what you're not.

You don't sound like a doctor, but someone who relies on google and paste to pretend.

Modified. Atheist are not free from seeing things. Theirs is even worse . They just cannot handle it and commit suicide easily.
Go and check the stats. Atheist are more prone to committing suicide from mental illnesses than anyone other group.

So don't celebrate yet

Maynman:
Don’t you then need to apply common sense and define what “god” means?
Some people “god” is a stone.

Stop misconstruing my statements to score cheap points.

I don't have your time .

You can continue talking to yourself. Even the people you're fighting on their behalf are ignoring you ,and nearly everyone too on this board since you usually talk out of point with your obsolete and antiquated description of words from wikipedia.

Almost every culture, if not all, in the world has their own concept of supreme deity, not only Islam and Christianity.

KnownUnknown:
The Dragon is as qualified as gods to be “the source” of universe. Just because they haven’t “concluded about the Dragon” doesn’t mean it’s not the source.

Good if you believe so, but please take it to those whose position you're opposed to ,not me.


You should realise that your atheism is founded on the god claims of the two popular abrahamic religion, and you're ignorantly using that to generalise about others you're too lazy to investigate.

What is refer to as God or 'creator is not the same for every religion out there

For instance, for some, it's the universe itself or the different forms of energy that exist , ,meaning that, there's no external entity that has created anything.

If you happen to meet with those who strongly hold on to such believes, and you try to dismiss them with your alternative dragon god which is not seen,you would be laughed at ,taken to be insane, and advised to seek professional help urgently.

Those ones only 'deify' and reverence what they see and not what is imagined.

There are other god or 'creator' descriptions to talk of ,but the one I just explained is enough to let you see how and your friends have been displaying stubborn ignorance on something you not too well informed on.

Every religion has not accepted and imaginary 'creator' claim that you can dismiss with dragons or the stale flying spaghetti monster talk common amongs some atheist. That kind of mockery is a product of lazy thinking, and largely ineffectual to make any theist abandon their believes.

Just rest and stop the clowning

jaephoenix:
You're actually jumping the gun here. All this your hyperventilation is because you cannot prove that there is no red dragon swirling above your head right now. And I insist its there

Then see a doctor urgently if you "insists its there"

Or read up "the five whys of insanity" to understand why you alone sees what others cannot see.

Workch:
How about aliens then?

Ignore that person.

KnownUnknown:
The question is not silly because there is no reason to take whatever anyone calls god to be anything more than nonsense. If you are agnostic about gods then it follows that you should also be agnostic about Jaeohoenix’s dragon.

If you say that Jaephoenix’s dragon is a silly idea and a nonstarter, then whatever you are agnostic about can be dismissed the same way. So, I changed dragon to god in your post.

.

I didn't say it's silly idea. I said the question shouldn't be asked in the first place if he knows what he is doing.

There are good reasons to speculate or talk about the source of our universe, and it's why people everywhere have concluded about a God , big bang, or anything else closer to it ,but non whatsoever for flying dragons over people's head.

Tell me ,on what basis is he asking about that? How does it connect to anything tangible that normal people discuss everyday?



Your friend claimed not to ever see a flying dragon or believe in it, and it's also certain he doesn't know of anyone else who has ever seen or believed in it.

If that's the case, why asking another person in the same position as himself to prove why they cannot see what is not there ?

Is that not madness?

Who knows? He probably might be seeing one recently and wants to test if others are begining to see the same thing..Tell him to see a doctor or let him read about the "five whys of insanity" so he stop with the mad talk.

I only responded to him at first because of his mentions that I was running away and also to see if has anything to surprise me with, but non so far and you want to come and defend the craziness. You are jobless really

I think both of you can't stand the thought you might be making a mistake concerning the position you have taken on the matter and because of that wants to drag others who have decided to be neutral.



There are agnostics theist, I know, but I'm not that .So, don't try to use subterfuge to drag me into your usual fight with theists on this board.


This is the last response you will get from me concerning this issue.

KnownUnknown:
You’re agnostic about Dragon so I was supporting your position about how ridiculous god is.

Keep your support to yourself. I don't need it.

Give it to the person who has asked a silly question.

Workch:
I can't answer a question that doesn't make sense.
That's why I want you to make it make sense

Just ignore him. He is in the habit of reacting to things he won't take the time to understand first.

And this is not the first time.

I already answered his question , but since then, no reasonable response from him other than noises and stupid conditions .

KnownUnknown:
The Dragon created the world.

The Sun is the result of the Dragon’s breath when They thought “This expanse We have created deserves to experience the sensation of existence”.
Then , the Dragon thought, “Let there be an object to provide light and warmth, to nourish the earth and also cause destruction” and They took a deep breath and exhaled such that the Sun emanated from the Dragon and there was light and warmth along with destruction.
The Book of Scales and Fire - Chapter 3:16

The day turned into night, the birds chirped at the sudden darkness, the crickets came to life in a cacophony of clicking sounds. The Dragon’s spirit came down on The Twins and declared them the good and the evil to balance out creation. Then the Expanse opened up and the spirit descended like a seven-headed dragon and a roar was heard in the celestial realms, “These are Our progenies, in whom We are well pleased”
The Book of Brimstones and Sapphires - Chapter 4:19

The fool says in his mind, there is no Dragon.
Psalm 101

Why did you edit my comments to misrepresent me ? Where did I affirm any god before now?

Did you skip your medication or what ?

Workch:
yes, if you explain how it fits and aliens does not. I will answer

He can't make any sense. He is just bluffing.

He wants to throw illusion at himself to confuse himself, not me .

jaephoenix:
I just asked you a question. And y'all went haywire.
Someone asked, "Are you a Nigerian?" and you started accusing the person of all kinds of things.
I simply asked if you have a red dragon etc hovering over you, I haven't even explained the reason for the question and y'all agnostics are going ballistics

I know you will waste my time.

The questions about dragon doesn't make any sense in the contest of what is being discussed here, and I know you won't see it.

We are concerned about the real world itself and how it came about and not your imaginary dragon.

Nobody, except a mad man, would ask another person if they see a flying dragon over their head. Please I'm not calling you mad. I just want you to think of what you want to do.

Is it common to see that sort of thing?

Imagine somebody walking up to you to ask you about dragons

And if you manage to reply ,no

Then, he insist you prove why you can't see it . what nonsense!

Please be honest with yourself. How would you regard such a person, oga doctor?

You said you don't believe in flying dragons and not seen it before. If that's the case then ,both of us are in the same situation; I don't believe in such and never seen it too.

So why coming to ask me about it first instead of yourself since we are both in the same boat?

You don't know what you're doing.

Workch:
he wants you to agree with him that there no evidence for it hence it does not exist. But that does not apply to the argument of a creator... Atheists sometimes cannot reason differently from theists.

It's wrong in someone admitting that he doesn't know soemthjng and then becoming neutral to it

I want to see how he is going to make me agree with him. I haven't announced any dragon to him, yet ,he wants me to talk about it

Workch:
So can we stick to the god debate? Do derail it with Martian dragons and indigo borrowing bird analogy.
They don't make any sense

Leave him. I know where's heading to . I have met his type before

jaephoenix:
Lol. I simply asked you if you see any dragons. How does that translate to claiming a dragon is hovering over you?
Its a simple question which (for some reason) agnostics find that uncomfortable.
But now u have answered, I asked a rejoinder. Please do answer that.
We are getting somewhere

When did I announce to you a dragon is flying over my head for you to question me over it?

Answer me

And why are you asking me what you say you can't see yourself?

Does that make sense to you?

jaephoenix:
So now we have gotten somewhere. I thank you dear TripleChoice for such bravado on breaking out of your agnostic 'shell' and embracing reality.
And no, I dont see any flying dragons, hovering over my head. Or anything at all on my head.
So may I ask, how did u come to such a conclusion that there's nothing hovering over you? Forgive my inquisitive nature

You were the one who claimed a dragon is hovering over my head which I can't see.

So you should know what to do first

jaephoenix:
Oh, finally. A brave agnostic answers. Hallelujah praise thy Noodly Limbs, the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster. I bless your Holy Pasta.
Whoa!
Please don't be annoyed. Let me digest this breakthrough in this discourse. Lemme take a breath…

What's the bravery talk for ? I just saw your mention

If you want to take this as a joking session, I will ignore you

jaephoenix:
Okay. Nice theory.
Lets be practical.
Now answer this...
Is there a dragon hovering above your head right now? Yes or no is the answer.

I cannot see any. So no.

Do you see one ?

Answer yes or no

Maynman:
Dullard; where did i say it was agnostics that was given description?

Is anything hurting you apart from this discussion?

You will remain dull for live for saying that

Workch:
he's psychopath. If you think I'm lying, engage him. You will see for yourself

He has serious issues..

He has been pretending not to understand the agnostics position, but when he read about agnostics theist elsewhere, he immediately saw that it contradicts agnosticism.

It's not possible be neutral about something and still take side with it at the same time.

How did he recognise that instantly if not that he has been deceiving himself.

He should continue talking to himself.