₦airaland Forum

jaephoenix:
4. You also have no idea how medical referral system works. Any doctor or physician can manage any case(and I mean any case). You only refer to specialists or consultants where you feel you have exhausted your knowledge. That's why we spent 6 years or more in the first medical degree called MBBS(in this part of the world) which means Bachelor or Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery. My school call it MBBCh. So yes, I can see psychiatric cases that present to me before referral. In highly advanced medical countries like the US etc, psychiatric cases quickly present to psychiatrists as a first call. This is unlike poorly resourced countries like ours.
And yes, I can develop interest in psychiatry without being a psychiatrist. It simply means I have more knowledge of psychiatric cases. And no, I'm not a psychiatrist, and I have never called myself one, either here or anywhere. If you have any evidence of me doing otherwise, do present it, or shut that stinking ignorant piehole of yours.
5. Lol. There is so much Google can help especially in a highly rarefied and specialized field like medicine. Google may even give you wrong data. So you can go suck a dicck or something. Ah, yes, I don't talk like a doctor. Actually you aint the first to say it, nor probably the last: the internet is littered with dimwits like you that don't know doctors are more or less like regular folks. There's no special 'doctor speak'.
6. About atheism and suicides all I would tell you is you're a prime clown. Are those Muslim extremists that blow themselves to bits atheists?

Then why not be clear about what you do . Everything ended with you in that post of yours . You never talked of referral. Go back and read what you wrote . You liar .

You also wanted to create the false narrative that only religious people are prone to seeing things because of their beliefs .
What of the irreligious who come to you ?

Why no mention of them ?

Go sleep . You know nothing

I said ,you are pretending to be what you are not . I never said you were a mental health practitioner .You can never be that .

And I still doubt you are any kind of doctor . I have friends who are medical doctors both in Nigeria and overseas .

You don't come close at all when I compare the things they explain to me with some of things you post here .

You are like a ' cut and nail doctor " nothing more .

Place the address of your hospital here let come and confirm for my myself so I shut up.

Your choice of words exposes you . You are more at home with gutter language than the medical terminology those in the medical profesion are known to use all the time .

How can you read medicine for all that period and after the years you have spent practicing ,you still sound like an 'agbero '

You are deceiving yourself .

Modified . Your last comments shows you know nothing . Atheist commiting suicide from mental illnesses is not the same with religious fanatics doing so from indoctrination , and that doesn't happen all the time .

Go do your reaserch and come back to tell me what I said about atheists and suicides is not true . Don't assume .

LordReed:
Check your mentions or go back through the thread you'll see it.

You literally responded to the comment in which I said I was moving towards ignosticism. So you didn't read it before you responded?

I was responding to a particular person not the OP. If you want to get the sense of what I was responding to read that post but basically I was responding to this: "Yet another person wearing a label he cannot differentiate from other labels." Has nothing to do with misunderstanding the agnostic position or mocking it.

I just explain why I skipped it . I thought it was the other person trying to inundate me with is usual nonsense .

Honestly , If I had seen that, I wouldn't continue to question you about it again . It wouldn't make any sense to do so .

Ok Reed .

I have seen it .
I skipped it because I thought it was crazy maynman replying me with is usual copy and paste
But explain the mockery

LordReed:
I literally responded to you with what an agnostic atheist is, why asking the same question again?.

I'm not sure about this .You were evading my questions .

Please show me again where you responded.. I have not seen it. . Maybe you modified your comments to do so . We all do that sometimes so I may have missed it because of that . But I will check .

Tell me how I do not understand the agnostic position or how I am mocking it. Quote what I said that indicates any of the things you are saying.

You below .

LordReed:
LoLz. As in, seriously. They are just dancing around in some semantic gymnastics. Imagine someone saying "I don't believe" is not the same as "I neither believe nor disbelieve". I am just LMFAO.

.

Dude I said I am an agnostic atheist, I also said I am moving towards ignosticism. I literally said it in this thread and you can't even quote me right? SMH.

You didn't quote me to say the above so I didn't see it . Is not everything I have read . Of course I would have seen it later but for now no. It's only in the other thread I saw you discuss it with workch, and once or twice in the past you said the same.

Even at that can you explain what you were trying to do with what I reproduce for you above. It's you .
I don't think you would be doing that for any reason since you are leaning towards the same thing .

LordReed:
Can you quote where I said anything about the agnostic position in order for you to infer I misunderstood it?

No ,you are getting this wrong .

I said ,I expected you to understand the agnostic position better since the subset ,agnostic atheist is not far from it .

Ok

What is agnostic atheist ?

You once said you are leaning towards that and you cant do so without some understanding of it .

And if you understand it ,why joining others in the mockery instead of explaining it they way you understand it . You may know it better than the rest of us

LordReed:
Quote where I said anything about the agnostic position.

Agnostic atheist ,not agnostic .

Maynman:
Why are you so concerned over a “like”.
I just showed everyone you are a dullard that doesn’t know what “god” means yet you are agnostic to it.
If we replace “god” with “dragon” and call it a creator and what is responsible for the world will you also be agnostic to it?
That’s exactly what theistic religions are doing, they call yahweh a god, call Hubal a god, they are dummy idols.

And stop spewing what you lack knowledge on, “buddism” has nothing to do with “god”, it takes its roots in hinduism.
I can take you to the intricate of Hinduism, i am not your mate.

Go take your medications .You need it now . I fear a relapse is coming from the way you are sounding now

Oh Reed

I remember you once said you are an agnostic atheist .

What does that even mean?

can you explain in simple terms ?

I expected you to understand the agnostic position better ,but you seem not to at all .
I may be wrong though , hence I want you to explain agnostic atheism .

Maynman:
Why your body hot?
He never said you said it.


Your definition of “god” is a monotheistic one.. and “god” is a title not a person.

To show that you are barren, how can you find evidence against a title?
Don’t you need to tell us the name of this god and his ability to know how to find evidence against it.

Is like me saying find evidence against teacher, you have to tell me which teacher, which god?

U go soon enta market wit all ur misrepresentation of mi..

The person that liked your comment doesn't know what has transpired before so he liked shit .

LordReed:
LoLz. You responded to me first dude. Abeg rest.

No need to fight over this . Agnostics ,atheist or whatever is something anyone can move away from or switch into tomorrow .

LordReed:
LoLz! I am not sure why my response is being seen as an attack. Of course I know you are not the one making the claims.

Where did I say it's an attack?

Show me. You want to push it to me That is what I try to point out
I think you quoted the wrong person . Check again

Maynman:
they don’t call atheists that, they call non-yahweh worshippers that.

When a Christian is abusing those that don’t believe in god, he is talking about his own god, so a Muslim and other non yahweh worshippers are also affected by it. Take note triplechoice.

Stop spewing your ignorance in my face . Take it elsewhere

LordReed:
So no coherent non-ambiguous answer.

I'm not to answer for theist . I did what you should done yourself like I have done before now .

You are making it seem I'm the one making the god claims despite what I explained.

Please don't do this .

LordReed:
LoLz. As in, seriously. They are just dancing around in some semantic gymnastics. Imagine someone saying "I don't believe" is not the same as "I neither believe nor disbelieve". I am just LMFAO.

Not the same . Very surprised by this comment of yours . I should be the one laughing at you .

'Neither ,nor' ,means nothing there .

"Neither John nor Peter is here" ,
equals certainty ,meaning they are definitely not here.

' I don't believe John or Peter is here ' is not certainty . It's possible they might be around .

The key thing here is, 'believe' preceeded by the coordinating conjunction ,'neither ,nor ' which is complete negation of what comes after .

So tell me now ,how is it exactly the same ?




A theist can equally bring exactly the same laughable argument you just brought in to dismiss agnosticism . And they too have done something similar in another thread.

It's certainly not possible for both of you viewing it from the opposite end to have the same perspective

So something is definitely wrong.

And what could that be ?

You are both commiting the mistake of trying to interprete agnosticism strictly from your respective position without making the attempt, even for once , to place yourselves in the position of the agnostic, at the middle , in order to understand how exactly it feels to be one .

Agnosticism is a state of mind and for you to make complete sense of it ,you will need to suspend temporary how you currently think and then try to assume the position to function from that state

That's the only way ,Nothing else would do . Mockery and blind arguments won't help at all. Such antics is symptomatic of someone who is afraid of letting go of what they hold on to as truth .


Reading about it is also not enough . You need to take action and demonstrate it for yourselves .

If you are very critical and continue to be critical of agnosticism ,then it's evidence enough, you don't yet understand it just like theist who also cannot make sense of atheism ,wondering why anyone refuses to believe in a god .It doesn't make sense to them and that's why they call you devil worshippers and confused people.

They just cant just bring themselves to think from your position . If they do so ,then the deconversion process begins . That's all it works .

I can boast of this ,the day you make sense of agnosticism is the day atheism loses its meaning for you .



Don't use your knowledge and experience of atheism or theism to interprete agnosticism and think you will get it .

Learn what it's separately ,if not , you will fail woefully like an ignorant person trying to use their knowledge and experience of English pronunciation to try to pronounce words in French simply because he sees that both language shares exactly the same phonetic symbols . He won't get it at first , and will ridicule himself in the presence of those who know the correct pronunciation .



It's hugely disappointing to read some comments, not to talk of the craziness alongside it from some persons .

LordReed:
More than anything else these discussions on agnosticism has pushed me more towards Ignosticism. What is a god? Does that word have a coherent, non ambiguous answer or is it just another word for bullshìt.

The word,. God or "creator",are descriptive terms which some theist are using to describe what they conclude is responsible for the world we live in .

Others have concluded differently .

For those ones , the universe itself. is its own "creator" .nothing external..

Buddism is one religion holding on to that . They don't believe an external being is responsible for our world .

ReacherSaidNoth:
Yet another person wearing a label he cannot differentiate from other labels. Agnosticism is not fence to isit on between theism and atheism. By saying you believe in some intelligent designer, you are a theist sympathizer like someone rightly said.

Deist best describes him

Negroid001:
That's why it's called Agnosticism. I learn everyday. My head is like a sponge. My views are open to corrections. I'm not rigid like an Atheist or Religious fanatic.
The fact you used a negative word shows your core belief was questioned. The principles i believe in work for me.
I don't give a damn about your beliefs. I even encouraged yours that it inspired me to share my views.

From the things you have said about yourself ,the word. that best describe your current position is deism. ,not agnosticism.

Deist are the ones who are convinced an external creator exist for the world we collectively share together. Agnostics don't hold such conviction yet

Maynman:
Illiterate, before you take someone to court you have to tender an explanation on oath on what the said person did, and your explanations have to match with current reality.
Even if you are raped you still have to provide some form of EVIDENCE.

Off point and wayward as usual.

If you are taken to court for an offence you didn't commit, you will need to defend yourself.

You don't just plead innocence and expect the judge to rule in your favour.

Maynman:
Who brought the claim that “gods” exist and we should believe they exist?

Go ask your father you insult everyday.

I don't want to consort anymore with nairaland latest madman, sorry Maynman

LordReed:
That's why the question is for him to answer.

How ?

I Judge should side with you over something that doesn't concern him?

I don't think I understand you yet.

Maynman:
You are a dullard; a judge does not work on belief but facts and knowledge.
How will you explain to the judge why you don’t BELIEVE in a word called “god”?
If you are a reasonable judge, won’t you be asking the theist why someone has to BELIEVE in it, why can’t we KNOW?

Then present your facts and knowledge for the judges to decide in your favour without biases or shut up .

It's because the analogy is lost on your dead brain, you are insulting yourself.

LordReed:
Well Workch says you need to bring evidence against what you don't believe.

I think he didn't put it well.

Both you and the theist are the ones to present your case for judgement by the agnostic who is acting like a Judge now.
Judges are expected to be neutral .Is that not so?

The matter doesn't concern the agnostic. It's between you and those you are opposed to.

So defend or prove your case beyond reasonable doubt. That's all.

LordReed:
Did I say differently? If you don't believe what evidence do have against it with respect to what you said: “if you don't believe it bring an evidence against it. ”

You can only provide that when you have taken a position.

I neither believe nor disbelieve you means neutrality, zero. Nothing to give until I can be sure

Maynman:
When will science work to find out if Santa exist?

When loonies like you continue to report it everywhere.

Maynman:
What does this mean “ By the time millions of people worldwide starts reporting the same thing, then it's time for science to intervene.”?

where did they gather enough data and evidences to work with?

Your ignorance will be exposed here, dullard.

You are losing your mind .

Go meet the quack doctor to treat you.

Labeling others ignorant doesn't make them that.

It's what you say and do.

So look to yourself.

Maynman:
You are a dullard, your house is burgled is that a belief or a established fact?
So when it comes to the word “god”, what is the established fact in it, then we will know the EXACT GOD that created the world.
Illiterate!

I don't blame you.

This forum is faceless . So you can insult. But I tell you, it's not what you think. You might be surprised.

I have strong reasons to believe my house was burgled by a thief, but not certain who exactly is the thief, and that's because no evidence to confirm.

If I have no evidence it's wrong to accuse and arrest anyone as being responsible, but people do that all the time.

This is the main thing I want go get across ,and not the fact of it being burgled.

You didn't read very well before barking.

I told you already, stop with this nonsense to score cheap points in order to give yourself airs.

You are have been the only one trying to misinrepresent me here, but you will continue to fail .

Maynman:
People reporting the same thing worldwide does not make it an overwhelming evidence.

No it doesn't. And where did I say so?


I said before scientists starts to investigate anything,, they most have gather enough data, evidences, to work with.

I never said the data is prove already. The data they collect is what they interpret to know the truth.

You like to overreach yourself yet you know nothing.

Agnosticism is usually difficult to make sense of by both the fanatical theist and atheist. I said so before and I'm repeating it again, but this time with another simple explanation that may help in understanding.


An agnostic, unlike the theist and atheist is not stucked in one position. He is willing and open to view reality from all sides to get the complete picture. And that's why agnostics scientists are the best compared to others. They hardly bring in their biases when interpreting evidence in front of them.

For instance If there is evidences which points in the direction of god or the supernatural, most atheist scientists would be loath to look into it because of the fear it might negate their position and prove them stupid in the eyes of theist.

The same thing is applicable to theist who would also ignore what negates their position.

Agnostics have nothing to lose or fear. They don't hold on strongly to anything. But this doesn't mean they don't sometimes have valid reasons to believe or not to believe in something until concrete evidence is found ..

For instance, If my house is burgled in my absence, I have strong reasons to believe a thief did it, but no evidences to immediately know who exactly is the thief. So I remain neutral and don't suspect anyone until I know the truth because the person I strongly suspect may turn out not to be responsible or is responsible in the end.

So we can see from the above, people can have a valid reason for what they believe in until they have evidence which may either confirm their suspicion or prove them wrong



If you say you see a dragon over another's head, which others can't see, and you can't provide, either a poweful reason or evidence for what you claim to see ,why should you expect anyone to take you serious?

It's really disappointing seeing how some people who pride themselves of being rational thinkers behaving on this thread

You don't just claim something and without any reason whatsoever in support, you want others to prove it's true or not. What kind of reasoning is that?

Religious people have provided reasons why they believe in a god which is not yet proven to exist.

If you have counter reasons why they shouldn't believe in such gods, why dont you let them know respectfully instead of clowning yourself with unreasonable monsters and dragons nonsense that doesn't move them.

Well this is not for everyone. I know a lot of atheist who support and tolerate religious people.

Militants atheist are not different from boko haram terrorist. The same mindset they both have. An intolerant gang of irritants.

An intolerant person is the same everywhere. You cannot live with them.

I have spoken. You can come at me if this triggers you in anyway.

jaephoenix:
But you and your agnostic gang were quick to dismiss my claims of existence of the dragon. You didn't do any research whatsoever. Not even a question about its properties or attributes. You dumped all of it into the trash can. I feel hurt

Yours shouldn't be talked about yet since you are the only one seeing it.

By the time millions of people worldwide starts reporting the same thing, then it's time for science to intervene.

That's how it works in the sciences.

Scientists don't just go about investigating every single claim people make . It's only when the evidence becomes overwhelming they look into.

And besides there are things which falls outside the purview of science to investigate.

Can invisible beings be scientifically proven to exist?

Science says no.

What do we do then ,we can choose to believe or not to believe or even do nothing.

Just ignore completely.

jaephoenix:
You know, as a physician, I get many patients telling me they hear from gods, and that they see and walk with them always. We usually slap labels of schizophrenia, delirium tremens etc on them and put such patients on antipsychotics and sometimes for extreme therapies.
Oddly enough, that's exactly what many pastors and Christians claim: see God, talk and walk with him etc. But the same physicians and psychiatrists that prescribed antipsychotics, would bow before such pastors and envy them.
Maybe I shouldn't be hasty in smacking those antipsychotics on those patients. I should just research and find out if they are actually seeing and hearing things. Maybe medicine and science has been wrong all this while.
Religion plays tricks on us all .

It's not the fault of science but your inability as a medical doctor to diagnose properly your patients to know what is responsible for what they claim to see.

If you can detect the cause, then you proceed to treat, if not, wait until you know before doing anything. You don't just start administering drugs anyhow which they may not even need.

Ordinary lack of sleep, or cerebral malaria can make people see things ,even to the extent of seeing what they think is a god. In such a situation it's not their religion that's responsible ,but an underlying health condition which has brought on such visions or delusions.

Once the cause is addressed everything returns to normal.

And it's very unethical of you as a medical doctor to mock anyone for their mental health challenges anywhere no matter what. Psychiatric doctors are not known for that. Well ,it may happen in Nigeria, but elsewhere very rare.

Most of your patients, if you are actually what you claim to be, I think you are a quack, sees you as the only person they can talk to about their condition since you have presented yoursellf as the only who can make them make sense of what they are currently experiencing .Family members and friends would certainly have been avoiding them because if it.

So imagine if one of them happens to be here on nairaland reading how you actually feel about them, what do you think would be running through their minds now, and their reaction when next they come to you?

See, you are pathological liar who forgets the things he has said in the past.

Before now, you admitted you only had interest in psychiatric medicine ,and you were another kind of doctor.

Forgetting that, you now want to present yourself as a psychiatric doctor.

You really need help.

You cannot deceive everyone about what you're not.

You don't sound like a doctor, but someone who relies on google and paste to pretend.

Modified. Atheist are not free from seeing things. Theirs is even worse . They just cannot handle it and commit suicide easily.
Go and check the stats. Atheist are more prone to committing suicide from mental illnesses than anyone other group.

So don't celebrate yet

Maynman:
Don’t you then need to apply common sense and define what “god” means?
Some people “god” is a stone.

Stop misconstruing my statements to score cheap points.

I don't have your time .

You can continue talking to yourself. Even the people you're fighting on their behalf are ignoring you ,and nearly everyone too on this board since you usually talk out of point with your obsolete and antiquated description of words from wikipedia.

Almost every culture, if not all, in the world has their own concept of supreme deity, not only Islam and Christianity.