₦airaland Forum

Judas2013:
Wetin god carry those virgins do,tell us!!

Am I HE? Why not ask HIM? Fear dey catch you?

Judas2013:
Wetin god carry those virgins do,tell us!!

Wetin Judas dey yarn? Even through phone I dey smell him mouith odour!

Demmzy15:
When we clearly read the verse from the beginning it refutes the above notion, I'm not asking for the nature of the virgins or how tasteful they're. I said what did your God do with them?! This is a straight forward question na Parisbookaddict, I thought you had confidence?

He did nothing with them. There is no account of anything being done with them unless you want to look at it from the Al-ilah perspective.

Judas2013:
Fortunately I found out about all this murderous violent filth in the Bible and walked away permanently from Christianity. This is the stuff they never tell you about in church, and you are quite shocked at what the Bible actually contains when you read it for yourself. I don't care what excuses "God" might have for justifying his behavior. Wrong is wrong is wrong. Why can't God follow his own laws for a change (thou shall not murder).

And for the virgin,TruthHurts1,what did your god do with them?? You need to tell us,since you are his mouth piece.

Judas art thou come to scorn me in this hour? Thy treachery doth magnify itself against the Way....

Demmzy15:
Laughing at your idiocy, did his wives complain to your generation? Can't you see how they're happy, you christians never seems to amaze me with your desperate tactics!

They couldn't complain cos they would be whipped silly:

Quran

Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."  Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike'.

Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..."  Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).

[size=24pt]The 32 Midianite virgins were young girls who were not involved in the licentiousness and immorality associated with Baal worship. They were therefore not implicated along with the adult men and women. These virgins grew up and were given in marriage to men in Israel.

YHWH is not by nature a vengeful God who strikes out capriciously and randomly at whatever people-group He feels like killing off. YHWH does not take pleasure in the death of any man or woman, boy or girl. He is longsuffering and slow to anger, plenteous in mercy. He even provided for the acceptance of sojourners and strangers into the fold of Israel if they were willing to join Israel in the worship of the one true God, YHWH.[/size]

Demmzy15:
Lmao!!! 32 virgins were alloted to your God out of 16,000 for the men, what did your God do with his share?! Simple question!

If you're not a coward, reproduce the verse.

A true Prophet is a model of temperance and forebearance. He practices self discipline. A false prophet does this:

Demmzy15:
Don't be confused girl, I never mentioned Jesus. In fact he's responsible for this because he's god according to your doctrine, so what did he do with the 32 virgins? Everything the Prophet Muhammad(SAW) did was moral, they were his wives, legally married to them, so nothing spoil!

What did your God do with the 32 virgins alloted to him? May Allaah continue to be with Bro Ridwan for the marvelous destructive thread. What did your God do with them?

I see. So the 32 virgins ascended into heaven? What scripture is this even from?

lol

Demmzy15:
Were they not his wives?! So what's your problem with a man and his personal life?!

Anyways, I need explanations for this, after your God commanded his jihadists to kill, plunge, rape and loot. He asked them for something amazing:

36-40 The half share of the soldiers was 337,500 sheep and goats, of which 675 were the tax for the Lord; 36,000 cattle for the soldiers, of which 72 were the tax for the Lord; 30,500 donkeys for the soldiers, of which 61 were the tax for the Lord; and 16,000 virgins for the soldiers, of which 32 were the tax for the Lord. Numbers 31:36-40

Parisbookaddict can you please tell me what he was going to use this virgins for?!

Concerning your above overconfidence, you're just wasting your time because this same Allaah is what your fellow Christians use as God in their bible. Or do you want to see John 3:16 in Arabic bible? You've not disproved me, I said there's nothing like Al-ilah, it's not possible, don't be pathetic loser na, give up!

Where's Jesus in any of this?

The three daughters of Allah (Al-Ilah), al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat

Thank you for this Saheed. I owe you one!

Was Allah The Moon God of Ancient Arab Pagan?



By Saheed Kamran Mirza



Historical evidences, impartial logic, well versed references and all available circumstantial judgments can very well prove that—(a) Allah name of deity was pre-existed much before the arrival of Islam, (b) Pre-Islamic Pagan peoples worshipped Allah as their supreme deity (moon-god). Allah’s name existed in pre-Islamic Arab. In ancient Arab the Allah was considered to be the supreme God/deity (as Moon-God) and Arab Pagans worshipped Allah before Islam arrived.



Let us examine below some valid questions and answers :

Did the Pagan Arabs in pre-Islamic times worship 360 gods? Yes

Did the pagans Arabs worship the sun, moon and the stars? Yes

Did the Arabs built temples to the Moon-god? Yes

Did different Arab tribes give the Moon-god different names/titles? Yes

What were some of the names/titles? Sin, Hubul, Ilumquh, Al-ilah.

Was the title “al-ilah” (the god) used as the Moon-god? Yes

Was the word “Allah” derived from “al-ilah?” Yes

Was the pagan “Allah” a high god in a pantheon of deities? Yes.

Was he worshipped at the Kabah? Yes.

Was Allah only one of many Meccan gods? Yes

Did they place a statue of Hubul on top of the Kabah? Yes.

At that time was Hubul considered the Moon-god? Yes.

Was the Kabah thus the “house of the Moon-god”? Yes.

Did the name “Allah” eventually replace that of Hubul as the name of the Moon god? Yes.

Did they call the Kabah the “house of Allah”? Yes.

Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called “the daughters of Allah”? Yes.

Yusuf Ali explains in fn. 5096, pg. 1445, that Lat, Uzza and Manat were known as “the daughters of God [Allah]”

Did the Qur’an at one point tell Muslims to worship al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat? Yes. In Surah 53:19-20.

Have those verses been “abrogated” out of the present Qur’an? Yes.

What were they called? “The Satanic Verses.”



The variable names (Sin, Hubul, llumquh, Al-ilah) of moon god were used by various tribes of pagan Arabs. Pagan god SIN was the name of Moon-god.





Who is actually Allah?



According to Islamic Theologians (Mullahs, Maulana, Moulavis, etc.), or Islamic teachings-- Allah is the supreme God or creator who (suddenly one day?) talked or introduced Himself with Prophet Muhammad through an Angel named Gabriel, disclosing the truth that it is the Allah who created everything in the universe. Surprisingly, Qur’an never defines the word “Allah” as to who actually Allah was or what was the relation of Allah with pagans. I believe, 99% percent of Muslims do believe that—Allah’s name was invented or started right from the time when Gabriel disclosed the truth (?) to Prophet Muhammad in the cave of Hira Parvat (Mountain) and gave Muhammad the Quran. They believe that before this truth was revealed—pagan Arabs were in the total darkness (Andhakar Zuug) and they used to worship various puppet goddess and that the pagans were very evil people. I can bet on this fact that no mullahs ever told us the real truth, neither they believe this clean truth that “Allah” was in fact a pre-existing deity in pagan Arabia. What a hypocrisy?



Some important factors which will suggest that the name“Allah” was already in use by Pagans as their chief God/deity:



(A) In pre-Islamic days, that Muslims call the Days of ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through Moon, Sun, Stars, Planets, Animals, wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity. At Mekka, “Allah” was the chief of the gods and the special deity of the Quraish, the prophet’s tribe. Allah had three daughters: Al Uzzah (Venus) most revered of all and pleased with human sacrifice; Manah, the goddess of destiny, and Al Lat, the goddess of vegetable life. These three daughters of Allah (there is a Quranic verse about them) were considered very powerful over all things. Therefore, their intercessions on behalf of their worshippers were of great significance.

(B) Arabs used to give their children names such as—Abdullah (slave of Allah). Clean proof was the fact that, Muhammad’s father’s name was “Abdullah”. Logical analogy here is—had there been no “Allah” in pre-Islamic Arab, there could be no Abdullah or slave of Allah in Arabia.

(C) Even today, in the entire Arab World, not only Muslims but all other non-Muslim (Jews, Christians, Sabians, Bahai, an atheist etc.) Arabs says—“Ya Allah” as the expression of surprise or unhappiness/sorrow.

(D). Albert Hourani’s statement: “The Islamic name used for God was “Allah”, which was already in use for one of the local Gods (it now used by Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians as the name of God (A history Of Arab people by Albert Hourani, 1991, page-16, Belknap press of Harvard University, USA)



History tells us two theories of Allah’s existence in and around the Kaba Sharif: (1) Pagans used to call the largest Statue amongst the 360 deities as ALLAH—whom they used to consider the chief/supreme deity (god). Or, (2) Pagan Arabs used to worship 360 deities inside Kaba Sharif, and they used to consider them different smaller deities under the total control of a single most powerful chief deity called “ALLAH” who was invisible (Nirakar) and was the all-powerful, all-knowing, and totally unknowable.



Amazing Similarities with Hindu Religion:



In India’s Hindu religion is quite similar to the number two theory (above) of pagan belief. Although, Hindus worship many different Goddesses—they invariably have faith upon a single supreme invisible deity called “Bhagaban” (some call it “Ischhaar”) whom they call “Nirakar”. And, surprisingly there is no sculptural image/figure for this Bhagaban. But all Hindus worship Him along with other numerous deities. This Bhagaban is considered as the lord of all other deities. What would happen—if some intelligent prophet would have asked Hindus to give up worshipping other goddesses and keeping only Bhagaban as their only deity making it a monotheist religion just like Islam? Could it not be another religion like Islam?



Now some factors which will suggest “Allah” was the Moon-god of Arab pagans:



(A) In Qura’n there are at least a dozen verses in which Allah repeatedly swears by the names such as moon, sun, stars, planets, night, wind etc. It is a mystery why the creator Allah (?) should swear by his creations. Normally, we swear by the name of something much superior to us, such as we swear by God or by the name of our father (who is considered senior or superior to us). But we never swear by the name of something inferior to us. Here in the Quran swearing fashions of Allah (God) by moon or stars hinting us that Allah considered these things superior to himself. And this makes us to think (otherwise) as to who actually acted as Allah in Quran? However, in his explanation of why the Qur’an swears by the moon in Surah 74:32, “Nay, verily by the Moon,” Yusuf Alli comments, “The moon was worshipped as a deity in times of darkness”(fn. 5798, pg. 1644). Perhaps, this swearing of Allah was due to the usual/cultural habits of worshipping moon as their God in pagan customs.



(B) Yousuf Ali stated (Page-1921-1623 of his English Translation of Holy Quran):



“Moon-worship was equally popular in various forms………Apollo and Diana—the twin brother and sister, representing the sun and moon. …in the Vedic religion of India the moon god was Soma, the lord of the planets…….moon was male divinity in ancient India. Moon was also male divinity in ancient Semitic religion, and the Arabic word for the moon “qamar’ is of the masculine gender, on the other hand, the Arabic word for sun “shams” is feminine gender. The pagan Arabs evidently looked upon the sun as a goddess and the moon as a God.



The Pagan deities best known in the Ka’ba and round about Mecca were Lat, Uzza, and Manat.…the 360 idols established by the Pagans in the Ka’ba probably represented the 360 days of an inaccurate solar year. This was the actual modern pagan worship as known to the Quraish contemporary with our prophet”



(C) Influence of Moon in Islam:



Who can deny the paramount influences of moon in Muslim’s life? In Islam, moon is considered holiest astronomical object, and moon is the guiding light of all Islamic rituals/festivals. Contradictions and conflicts are very common with the dates of Eids and Ramadan and obviously it is a chronic problem and moon is the nucleus of this problem. Crescent moon and stars are the symbolic sign in the national flags of many Muslim countries, and it is present over the Mosques, in the Muslim graveyard etc.



Prophet Muhammad compromised to Pagans to establish Islam in Arabia:



Prophet Muhammad did his clever tactics of adapting many rites of paganism into Islam, in order to accommodate Islam among the pagan Arabs. He made lots of political pacts with the Pagan Leaders such as Abu Suffian to accommodate his new idea of religion and he agreed to incorporate many of the Pagan rituals in Islam. Prophet Muhammad asked the pagans to worship only the “Allah” the largest God,

And destroy the idols of all other gods and goddesses that existed in Kabah. To establish oneness (monotheist) of God, he repeatedly asked them not to make any partners to Allah (That is why we can find hundreds of Quranic verses “asking not to make any partners to Allah). Finally, the Prophet was able to convince (by force of course) the pagans to destroy all idols, and on return (he) agreed (perhaps) to keep the “Names” of the goddess of most famous Pagan tribes as the alternative names of Allah—hence Islam has 99 NAMES of Allah.



Prophet Muhammad did command his followers to participate in these pagan ceremonies while the pagans were still in control of Mecca. (Please See Yusuf Ali, fn. 214, pg. 78). ... “the whole of the [pagan] pilgrimage was spiritualized in Islam...” (Yusuf Ali: fn. 223 pg. 80). In the Tafsir (of Quran-2:200) maoulana Yousuf Ali stated: “After Pilgrimage, in Pagan times, the pilgrims used to gather in assemblies in which the praises of ancestors were sung. As the whole of the pilgrimage rites were spiritualized in Islam, so this aftermath of the Pilgrimage was also spiritualized. It was recommended for pilgrims to stay on two or three days after the pilgrimage, but they must use them in prayer and praise to God.(#223 of Shane’nazul by Maoulana Yousuf Ali, page-81)



In Islam many rituals performed (today) by devoted Muslims in the name of Allah are connected to the pagan worship that existed before Islam. Pagans practices of the Pilgrimage of Kabah once a year--the Fast of Ramadan, running around the Kabah seven times, kissing the black stone, shaving the head, animal sacrifices, running up and down two hills, throwing stones at the devil, snorting water in and out the nose, praying several times a day toward Mecca, giving alms, Friday prayers, etc. are strictly followed by Muslims today. Nobody can deny the fact that, all the above rituals of Muslim’s hajj today—existed well before the arrival of Islam.



It is highly plausible to consider the fact that by incorporating much of the Pagan’s rituals in new religion Islam—Prophet successfully reduced the pagan-risk and it was perhaps one of the most important milestone-attempts to conquer the minds of Pagans resulting in massive breakdown of the Pagans’ moral and support to oppose Islam.

The central shrine at Mekka was the Pagan’s Kaaba (called House of Allah), a cube like stone structure which still stands though many times rebuilt. Imbedded in one corner is the black stone, probably a meteorite, the kissing of which is now an essential part of the Muslim’s pilgrimage.



It is the historical fact that the Ka’aba, the sacred shrine which contains the Black Stone, in Mecca was used for pagan idol worship before Islam and even called the House of Allah at that time. The name of the God whom the Arabs worshipped was the god of pantheon—Ali-ilah the god, the supreme, the predeterminer of everybody’s life or destiny—the chief God “Allah”



Who did not read the story of BLACK STONE which was very sacred (povitra) to all various tribes of Quraish. When one day this sacred stone was needed to transfer from one place to another, there was a quarrel amongst the various tribes, as to who will carry that sacred stone? Then most intelligent and righteous young boy Muhammad (was not a prophet then) invented the solution of this serious problem. He (Muhammad) put this sacred stone over a Chaddor (piece of cloth) and asked one representative from each tribe to hold the Chaddor and carry the stone. I narrated this story briefly just to prove that—black stone did exist long before Islam was invented.

In summary, it has been truthfully and logically proven with all possible available circumstantial evidences/rational that, Islam was not a new religion but it is a reformed paganism. I believe thatall these monotheistic religions have more or less similar origins. This idea of monotheistic religion was not a brand new invention. Monotheistic thought was declared by Ancient Pharaoh Kings, Mesopotamia’s king Hamarubi (3000 B.C.), and Alexander the Great (300 B.C.). Differences were, these kings demanded that they themselves were the God whom everybody should worship.



References:



1. The Holy Qur’an, Translated by A. Yousuf Ali, Published by Amana Corporation, Brentwood, Maryland, 1983

2. Buchari Sharif, Bengali Translation by Maulana Muhammad Mustafizur Rahman, Sulemani Printers and Publishers, Dhaka, Second edition-1999

3. A History of the Arab peoples, by Albert Hourani, the Belknap press of Harvard University press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1991

4. Dr. Robert Morey, 1996 Research and Education Foundation.

5. Gilchrist, The Temple, The Ka’aba, and the Christ (Benoni, South Africa, 1980), p. 16.

6. G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, (Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994), pg. 138

7. Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim, (Prometheus, Amherst, 1995) p. 42.



8. Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Lewis, Menage, Pellat, Schacht (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1971, II:1093.)

9. Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (ed. Hastings), I:326.



10.The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Mythology, Arthur Cotterell and Rachel Storm, Lorenz Books, New York 10011, Anness Publishing Limited 1999

11. Roots of the Western Tradition, (a short history of ancient world) by C.Warren Hollister, Library of congress cataloging-in-publication data, 6th edition, 1

Demmzy15:
Parisbookaddict you're a failure to humanity!

You mean as big a failure as MUMUhaMAD?

Truly I can't keep up with him. He fu.cks like a h.o.r.n.y rabbit. Read more about the one thing MUMUhaMAD really excelled at doing:

Sahih Bukhari

[size=16pt]Narrated Qatada: Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)." And Sa'id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven). Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268.[/size]

Demmzy15:
Don't you hear word, he was an heretic who had beliefs that are totally contradictory to the tenets of Islam. He was declared as such by people who knew him personally, is that so hard to comprehend? Micheal Servetus believed in God and Jesus but he was burnt on a stake because he was unitarian and he tried to merge Islam Christianity and Judaism. Isaac Newton had to hid his beliefs because he would have been executed as an heretic, think girl!



The Arabic word "Abeed" as no meaning in English, in fact it doesn't make any sense. The Arabic word for slave is "abd" or عبد but overconfidence is killing you too much that you cannot reason without copy and paste.

For the word "Al-ilah" there is no such thing in Arabic, it's Allaah and illah is a god. Get that into your flat skull ignoramus.

Of course Abeed. Wikipedia got it wrong, didn't they?

"Abeed"

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[size=16pt]Abeed (Arabic: عبد‎, plural Abeed عبيد or El Abeed العبيد) is a derogatory term in Arabic meaning "slave" and is usually applied as an insult to Black people to invoke stereotypes..................
[/size]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abeed

Demmzy15:
How does this nonsense relate with the issue? Bilad As Sudan is referred to as land of the blacks. The people of today's Sudan are blacks, just that they adopted Arabic. We have black Arabs dullard, the president of Sudan is a black Arab! Chai!!! ! The Truth surely hurts!

This was referring to Malians actually. Really Abeed? I expected more wisdom from you. Sigh.


[size=16pt]"As regards southern countries, all their inhabitants are black on account of the heat of their climate... Most of them go naked... In all their lands and provinces, gold is found.... [size=24pt]They are people distant from the standards of humanity." [/size]Hudud al-`Alam, 982 AD
[/size]

Demmzy15:
Why are you desperate and trying to play the racism card here? The world knows who the real racist are, and for your information, the Arabs of Sudan are blacks. They're known as black Arabs, Sudan also known as Bilad As Sudan which is roughly translated as "land of the blacks" is what the whole region of Sudan, Northern Nigeria/South West, Chad, Niger, Mali, Senegal, Burkina etcFaso, etc was known during the Era of Islam dominance, this what the people proudly called themselves . Now can you find somewhere I hit your flat'head?

Oh really (yawn)?

[size=16pt]"They [the Shu`ubiyya] maintain that eloquence is prized by all people at all times -- even the blacks, despite their dimness, their boundless stupidity, their obtuseness, their crude perceptions and their evil dispositions, make long speeches." Jahiz, Al-Bayan wa`l-tabyin, vol. 3 [/size]

Demmzy15:
Why are you desperate and trying to play the racism card here? The world knows who the real racist are, and for your information, the Arabs of Sudan are blacks. They're known as black Arabs, Sudan also known as Bilad As Sudan which is roughly translated as "land of the blacks" is what the whole region of Sudan, Northern Nigeria/South West, Chad, Niger, Mali, Senegal, Burkina etcFaso, etc was known during the Era of Islam dominance, this what the people proudly called themselves . Now can you find somewhere I hit your flat'head?

Oh really?

[size=16pt]"They [the Shu`ubiyya] maintain that eloquence is prized by all people at all times -- even the blacks, despite their dimness, their boundless stupidity, their obtuseness, their crude perceptions and their evil dispositions, make long speeches." Jahiz, Al-Bayan wa`l-tabyin, vol. 3 [/size]

ifenes:
You cannot know better than the Indians sorry. Your argument is dead.

Indios? Didn't see that coming! It's a load of old cobblers though. Pseudo History is Crapo History. I'm sure you believe in ancient aliens and Poo like that, don't you little boy?

Demmzy15:
Ibn Sina was an heretic, stop arguing. This is the view of majority of Muslim scholars of his time and the present, no body gives 's damn about what he accomplished if he doesn't have the fear of God and makes blasphemous claims..

Isaac Newton was an heretic according to your standard because he never supported trinity, he was a unitarian Christian. If he made his beliefs known, he would have been burnt on a take like many others. Deal with it Parisbookaddict!

Ibn Sina (known in Europe as )Avicenna was a devout Muslim and sought to reconcile rational philosophy with Islamic theology. His aim was to prove the existence of God and His creation of the world scientifically and through reason and logic.[41] Avicenna's views on Islamic theology (and philosophy) were enormously influential, forming part of the core of the curriculum at Islamic religious schools until the 19th century.[42] Avicenna wrote a number of short treatises dealing with Islamic theology. These included treatises on the prophets (whom he viewed as "inspired philosophers", and also on various scientific and philosophical interpretations of the Quran, such as how Quranic cosmology corresponds to his own philosophical system. In general these treatises linked his philosophical writings to Islamic religious ideas; for example, the body's afterlife.

There are occasional brief hints and allusions in his longer works however that Avicenna considered philosophy as the only sensible way to distinguish real prophecy from illusion. He did not state this more clearly because of the political implications of such a theory, if prophecy could be questioned, and also because most of the time he was writing shorter works which concentrated on explaining his theories on philosophy and theology clearly, without digressing to consider epistemological matters which could only be properly considered by other philosophers.[43]

Later interpretations of Avicenna's philosophy split into three different schools; those (such as al-Tusi) who continued to apply his philosophy as a system to interpret later political events and scientific advances; those (such as al-Razi) who considered Avicenna's theological works in isolation from his wider philosophical concerns; and those (such as al-Ghazali) who selectively used parts of his philosophy to support their own attempts to gain greater spiritual insights through a variety of mystical means. It was the theological interpretation championed by those such as al-Razi which eventually came to predominate in the madrasahs.

[size=16pt]Avicenna memorized the Quran by the age of ten, [/size]and as an adult, he wrote five treatises commenting on suras from the Quran. One of these texts included the Proof of Prophecies, in which he comments on several Quranic verses and holds the Quran in high esteem. [size=16pt]Ibn Sina (Avicenna) argued that the Islamic prophets should be considered higher than philosophers.[/size]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna

This is the man who Abeed Demmyz regards as a heretic! May Al-ilah Hubal forgive him!

ifenes:
How did you come about that? Show me where you got that info!

[size=16pt](Luke 2: 51-52)

[/size]

Joseph and Mary made the yearly pilgrimage to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. In addition, they brought their 12-year-old son to celebrate His first Feast in preparation for His bar mitzvah at age 13, when Jewish boys commemorate their passage into adulthood. Here we see a typical boy in a typical family of that day.

We see also in this story that Jesus’ lingering in the temple was neither mischievous nor disobedient, but a natural result of His knowledge that He must be about His Father’s business. That He was astonishing the temple teachers with His wisdom and knowledge speaks to His extraordinary abilities, while His listening and asking questions of His elders shows that He was utterly respectful, taking the role of a student as was fitting for a child of His age.

From this incident to His baptism at age 30, all we know of Jesus’ youth was that He left Jerusalem and returned to Nazareth with His parents and “was obedient to them” Luke 2:51. He fulfilled His duty to His earthly parents in submission to the 5th commandment, an essential part of the perfect obedience to the law of Moses which He rendered on our behalf. Beyond that, all we know is that “Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men" (Luke 2:52).

Wow, Muckslims are really their brother's keeper:

[size=16pt]A traveller in Sudan observed in 1930 that “In the eyes of the Arab rulers of Sudan, the Black slaves were simply animals given by Allah to make life of Arabs comfortable.” In 1962, the Arab Sudanese General, Hassan Beshir Nasr, while flagging off his troops to the war front against Black Africans in South Sudan, declared: “We don’t want these Black slaves…….what we want is their land.”[/size]

Demmzy15:
Ibn Sina was not a Muslim dullard, na wa for u o! He was an heretic, the difference between Islam and Christianity is that Christians burnt their heretics on stakes with their works while Islam doesn't!

Yours is a minority view. He is frequently mentioned as a Muslim Hero and his entry in the Muslim Encyclopedia is one of the longest and most detailed, now all of a sudden he is a heretic because he said something embarrassing about his abeeds! Poor man! By the way read this opinion about him by one of your fellow muslims:


[size=16pt]HEROES OF ISLAM[/size]

IBN SINA (Avicenna) - Doctor of Doctors! ( 980 - 1037 A.D.)
If you do no know who Ibn Sina is, then let me enlighten you about the great Arabic thinker of the 11th century.
Abu Ali al-Hussain Ibn Abdallah Ibn Sina was born in 980 A.D. at Afshana near Bukhara. The young Bu Ali received his early education in Bukhara, and by the age of ten had become well versed in the study of the Qur'an and various sciences. He started studying philosophy by reading various Greek, Muslim and other books on this subject and learnt logic and some other subjects from Abu Abdallah Natili, a famous philosopher of the time. While still young, he attained such a degree of expertise in medicine that his renown spread far and wide. At the age of 17, he was fortunate in curing Nooh Ibn Mansoor, the King of Bukhhara, of an illness in which all the well-known physicians had given up hope. On his recovery, the King wished to reward him, but the young physician only desired permission to use his uniquely stocked library.
On his father's death, Bu Ali left Bukhara and traveled to Jurjan where Khawarizm Shah welcomed him. There, he met his famous contemporary Abu Raihan al-Biruni. Later he moved to Ray and then to Hamadan, where he wrote his famous book Al-Qanun fi al-Tibb. Here he treated Shams al-Daulah, the King of Hamadan, for severe colic. From Hamadan he moved to Isphahan, where he completed many of his monumental writings. Nevertheless, he continued traveling and the excessive mental exertion as well as political turmoil spoilt his health. Finally, he returned to Hamadan where he died in 1037 A.D.
He was the most famous physician, philosopher, encyclopedist, mathematician and astronomer of his time. His major contribution to medical science was his famous book al-Qanun, known as the "Canon" in the West. The Qanun fi al-Tibb is an immense encyclopedia of medicine extending over a million words. It surveyed the entire medical knowledge available from ancient and Muslim sources. Due to its systematic approach, "formal perfection as well as its intrinsic value, the Qanun superseded Razi's Hawi, Ali Ibn Abbas's Maliki, and even the works of Galen, and remained supreme for six centuries". In addition to bringing together the then available knowledge, the book is rich with the author's original contribution. His important original contribution includes such advances as recognition of the contagious nature of phthisis and tuberculosis; distribution of diseases by water and soil, and interaction between psychology and health. In addition to describing pharmacological methods, the book described 760 drugs and became the most authentic materia medica of the era. He was also the first to describe meningitis and made rich contributions to anatomy, gynaecology and child health.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=354895951256878&id=113539802045333

ifenes:
Mr man,stop dancing around my question. If you don't know,say you don't know

Where was Jesus between the age of 12 to 30? Tell me you do not know and I will move!

Jesus was in Judea between the ages of 12 to 30. Unless you have some authentic historic sources proving otherwise, I suggest you tuck your tail between your legs and scoot off.

nemesis2u:
forget fancy words like 'omnipresent' and 'omnipotent'
answer me first
what is the relevance of god without humans?
if god is all powerful why would he/she be concern with puny humans worshipping him.
why does god stand to gain by a muslim worshipping him?

why does god stand to gain by a christian worshipping him?

why does god stand to gain by a hindu worshipping him?

etc etc.

Worship simply means giving reverence to a spiritual being who is greater than you. We don't do it for what God will gain but for what we will gain for ourselves.

nemesis2u:
water is fluid
air is fluid

still....
water is stable and recognisable
air is stable and recognisable

and we all are pretty much dependent on them
god or whoever has given us braincells for a reason so use it oga.

A god should be 'omnipresent' and 'omnipotent'. When you said 'fluid' the first idea that ocurred to me was that this god easily changes his mind.

facheux:
[s][/s]

Settle down crusader.

Is that the best you can come up with, Abeed?

ifenes:
Why was that? What was he doing at the age of 13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28 and 29? shagging women and getting drunk?

Or could it be what the Hindus said? In India studying the life of Buddha!

Sigh. You sub-evolved cretin. The Son of Man had no time for sinful daliances. He was simply readying himself for a religious mission that would shake the world to its very foundations ( I speak metaphorically of course )

But on a serious note, I don't get you atheists one bit. You give a free pass to MUMUhaMAD the rapist slave owner and yet you're always coming down hard on Jesus. How can anyone hate someone who says things like this:

Matthew 5: 43-48

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

How can anyone fail to be moved by such beauty? Sigh.

ifenes:
Answer the question. Where was the bible jesus from ages 12 to 30?

To let you know I am no Muslim nor christian.

He probably spent his teenage years dealing with acne and his breaking voice etc (normal teenage stuff). In other words, not things that would be of any doctrinal or theological significance. The real business started at age 30 and that is all that concerns us Christians.

ifenes:
Where did the bible say jesus was from ages 12 to 30?

Just out of curiousity, why are you MUCKslims so darned eager to attach Jesus to your s.h.it.ty religion? Doesn't MUMUhamed have enough credibility of his own?

ifenes:
If you had a brain at all you will know the Arabs/Syrians/Iraqis have a better opinion on Jesus(real name Yeshua) than Westerners or Africans.

If you had opposable thumbs and was not a primate, you'd know that Jesus was Jewish and lived his whole life in Judea without ever having contact with any Arabs/Syrians/Iraqis or any other assortment of ragheads you can think of.

amokeme:
Funny enough I like guys with pot belle (ok, I don't mean the disgusting type o. There are some belle that looks cute ) my friends think I weird... lol but honestly I do. I don't think I can date a slim guy... hanhan, I'm slim my bf/husband can't be slim na
I like big guys

All NL guys reading this post, please check out amokeme's profile pic. Well worth a view. You won't regret it.