₦airaland Forum

viaro:
Maybe I didn't get you; but I suppose when you posted initially you had a point to pass across. The way you came across with whatever you wanted to post makes one wonder what exactly your point was.

Geez i wonder why its only you that has a problem understanding my point. Nuclearboy did and I can only believe its something else that bothers you.

On the one hand, I may have missed it - but nowhere did I claim to "know it all" for you to have gone about writing off people that way. If you had a more brilliant point to make, at the very least you were invited to do so without being unduely concerned about what others are trying to say.

Where did i say viaro claims to know it all? Did i mention your name? Funny thing is when I mentioned that I had other people in mind but the way only u seems insecure in fidgety about it one wonders if within yourself you feel u are guilty.

Bottomline: how does the new convert benefit from what you are suggesting and then going down the terminus?

I have stated that a million times, that you deliberately miss it just points to a bruised ego

Please show me where I have posted any exegesis in this thread? Just one. I think that you need to calm down and not hastily jump to conclusions. Fine - we're not about "cramming" or "exegesis" - I for one didn't make any such claims anywhere. So where is all this coming from?

The threads that are supposed to spawn off from this one, what is going to be done there if not the usual self righteous exegizing and whatnot??

If the new believer is to be taught, at what point would such "teaching" come across to you as close enough to what you suggested without it being again written off the way you have been doing?

At the point when you begin passing of YOUR personal opinion, understanding and interpretation of scriprure as the truth as is done by most today.

I read your post - perhaps YOU need to calm down and read what others are saying. Did you miss the fact I pointed out this experience earlier before trying to bring in what I never said anywhere about "cramming" the whole Bible? If you took time to read what others are saying, I don't see why this point would even bother you in the first place.
I didn't get off the bar with you, and you're left alone counting your bottles.

Now I see why you are crying.

You have advocated your own way, yes you did. This is what you said:. .  and you make that recommendation because you have drawn the conclusion that those who read issues here are still hanging on to childish hankerings as you make out? Is that why you find it is "too late" for you to have a relationship or experience with God and suppose that others may find yours anything above what this thread attempts?

Unluckily for you, that was not my suggestion for new converts in light of this thread. If you read down the post you'd have seen it. On any other day, that will be my suggestion BUT This thread is about helping the new convert in his faith suggestions should be made along those lines. Thats why I took to consideration and suggested he be taught how to have a personal relationship with god. If I wanted to advice they abandon the faith on this thread will I in the same breath advocate they be taught about personal relationship with god?

The funny thing about your posts is that you vroom in here and act dismissively - yet, even on invitation to share something better, the bottomline is that the 'new believer' is not brought into that relationship with God, no?
Please get off your high horse. You may need go back and re-read what YOU wrote and see. What did you mean by "If he crams the whole bible and yet has no connection with your god then its purely baseless and of no use"?? I did not advocate that at all, and would I be surprised that you are too soon forgetting where you're coming from?

Again, serious insecurity at play. So this is what is paining you since?

Who said YOU advocated it at all? I stated on my own to say that a believer without that personal relationship even if he knows the bible by heart its totally pointless.

Please show me anywhere you find that a believer as a "believer" has no relationship with God. I didn't bind you to any authority anywhere, so no need to come off sounding insecure. The point is simple: if you find something to the contrary, then let's hear you. Is that too much to ask?

I have friends who believe yet admit to me they really dont have a personal relationship with god. There are even some new converts never taught about how to get this relationship by their MOG to keep then dependent on them for prayers, knowledge etc.

For you to come out and arbitrarily declare that no believer is without a personal relationship is pure arrogance.

What you arrogantly throw about is of no importance. god knows their heart and is all that matters

A believer as a "believer" already has a relationship with God - what comes next is to develop that relationship. In other words: GROW in that relationship. If you can properly establish that a believer is one who does not have a relationship with God, by all means please do so and let's read you.

There are believers who dont hv a personal relationship it dont matter what u claim.

nuclearboy:
This guy won't kill me today with laughter.  

And this should have come under the heretic thread as part of the effects on society and the disappointments caused by MOG "doctrines".

I think this is a true worry what with the bombardment from within and without the individual in his search for "God" especially when he's just getting on his feet. The self serving MOGs cause disaster with their amazing repertoire of "The Lord says" etc. But peace, Tudor, please! I believe you're not the first person to face such and you just might be suprised that now you think all hope of connection is lost is when God will approach you.

The primary basis of approaching God is simply prayer - communicating with someone usually means being with that person and I think God's case is not different. The closer/more extensive your visits to Him, the better! Such mind-rubbing (being in His presence) will usually pass some ideas of God to the individual - unfortunately, (in my experience) such ideas are usually NOT what our MOGs wish we have as these ideas tend to make individuals who are not easily swayed by excitement on the pulpit (you can't leave God's presence then be excited by man's presence). The bombardment (opposition to such) of society against the honest seeker of God usually has an impatient person becoming pressured, very irritable and wondering why God is allowing so much "persecution" just cos they want His truth. Most times, we walk away from God because the pressure gets to us.

I'm may be wrong but I suspect this happened to you, Tudor. It did to me too as reading you is akin to remembering how it was for me then. I got so mad I attempted cursing God, went into the Occult and even picked up habits I detested just so both God and His "dudes" would stay far from me. Anytime I saw my pastor approaching my place, I lit a cigarette and of course, they had ammunition to say I had derailed only BECAUSE I DIDN'T LISTEN TO THEM.  It took over a decade before a suprise occurence brought me back and since then, I have become an extremely individualistic believer. My posts here will show I can be abrasive and my wrath is mainly felt by these fake self serving criminals who use the name of God to pervert justice.

I think God uses such to strengthen us and is building an army that has experience of the battle from within, not just "gist".

I merely stated my personal experience to highlight the importance of teaching new converts how to relate with god personally and allowing them learn and study from god himself rather outside sources like show-off opinion filled exegesis threads started by inesqor or viaro which claim to teach truth.

This way, they are assured of getting the truth as they re learning from the holy spirit himself.

Just as I posted the above, I saw your newer response

Truth is I believe in personal culpability, still, it was in the context we discussed that I said what i did. If you look at the "Heretic teachings and their effect etc" thread, you will see me sing a new song. People can be deceived BUT Christianity says its a personal responsibility that we learn truth. I will not blame a man who is duped totally but neither will I totally absolve him of guilt. Its like what you wrote above, bro - people want QUOTE "business like. we see every month, I pay my taxtithe, you bless me.end of deal" UNQUOTE. That opens them up to the scam. So whist they are not responsible for the scam, their greed brought it on. To illustrate Tudor, why don't you pay tithe considering the BS you too (like them) have heard?

this makes it much more pertinent that a new believer is taught how to communicate with god coz frankly there are too many noise makers out there spreading chaff.

If one has a personal relationship and learns from god himself there'll be no room for heretic doctrines to infiltrate you as you can go ask god himself.

I think i know this viaro dude's problem. . . . In a rush to ejaculate you dont read posts in entirety as a body with a composite message. Rather read a paragraph take it as a message on its own, reply to it, move to the next paragraph do same.

An entire post is supposed to relay a point with each paragraph as building blocks. Pls use common sense.

viaro:
But how does this help the 'new convert'? Everyone has his/her personal experiences in relating with God - and they are diverse. Mr A, B, C, D and Z^N telling you this and that does not deliver that personal relationship to you; and one would have waited to see how seriously you pursued God from 'the source' instead of sounding bitter hitherto.

did you read that quoted section at all? Where did imply its supposed to help the new convert?

There are some who turned their backs on God for various other reasons. What strikes me is what they have had to say about "the source". It so happens that so many times, the bitterness points back to what others told them rather than a real experience with God Himself.

?

What am I saying?
Is that not why I ask that New believers be taught how to get that personal experiece rather than the rubbish exegesis and whatnot you people spew here.

I'm not laying blame on anyone, and I could also say that my own situation would very easily had led me down the same bitter road. What could one say about a life saddled with muslims, Christians, deists, and Hindus? Yet, I guess my fortune is that my extended family was never at 'war' among themselves despite the differences in worldviews. For me, it was a long, hard road up until[b] I came to understand that my relationship with God does not ride on anyone's back - it's got to be "personal" and not 'borrowed' or 'secondhand'[/b].

Did this dude read my post at all? So what have I been advocating since If not personal relationship

Then by all means keep yours! What amazes me is the way you come off sounding as know-it-all and yet accusing others of what you are guilty of yourself! After your own dismissives, you then "urge" others to go down your own lane - a lane which leads AWAY from God! I dare say that is not sensible in the least, and that was why we waited to see what you had to offer.

I laugh. . .my own way? I advocated that believers be taught to have a personal relationship with god which you have supported above then down below you label it ''my way'' and claim it leads away from god? Dude you must be drunk.

This is where I have to state in no uncertain terms that I seriously disagree with you. I'm not all about cramming the whole Bible - a careful read through my posts here hitherto shows where I stand. I could oblige a reposting of relevant sections to show that I was more about experience in daily walk among BELIEVERS.

who said you cram the bible or are you insecure? Damn, did my post touch a nerve?

A believer is a person who already has a relationship with God rather than groping ignorantly seeking that relationship.

way to go! Am i suprised? No!

You alone has the right to declare who a believer is and is not. . . .we bow to your authority

I do not know of any "believer" who is one without a relationship at any level with God! It is how one grows in that relationship that comes after the initial contact of becoming a BELIEVER. This is why the unbeliever does not acknowledge any relationship with God at any level. This is not about cramming anything - it is about experience and growing in that experience.

what is the meaning of this?

So one seeking that experience isnt a believer according to you??

Thanks. . .give us more of your exegesis pls o great teacher. Infact we need it to enter heaven.

nuclearboy:
Interestingly and this is not in a bid to "please" Tudor, I think what he has said here would likely be of paramount importance to a new believer FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF A MATURED BELIEVER WHO FEARS (CONSIDERING THE PRE-PONDERANCE OF FALSE TEACHINGS OUT THERE).

What I mean is that whist the new believer may not realise it, He it is that is at greatest risk since a bad foundation will likely not be easy to correct. Heliping him strengthen his relationship past where its easy to derail him may just be really helpful.

[size=4pt]This Tudor chap always suprises me - I wonder if he won't end up a pastor. Just that if you annoy him,  na die. Imagine a machine-gun mounted on a pulpit[/size]

But what matters is that this thread continues, I guess, with any and likely all of the points raised above

If you ever see me preaching, just know i've decided to reap from the naira rain in churches today.

Months back you said something to me which make it annoy me more when I see people spreading their personal opinions as truth.

When I asked why god doesnt just kill all them false teachers like adeboye to protect genuine believers, you said god has given them all they needed in the bible and will judge them accordingly if they dont decode the truth as its their fault not gods. I then opined not every one was smart enough to know which is which. You still held on to ur view.

Why life is already so difficult for a chap just trying to know his god then some more quacks are coming on NL to confuse them the more?

If god is going to judge people whether they smart or not people should then be left alone to study the word with the holy spirit whoz supposed to be teacher of truth. Going to hell on your own sounds bad but going to hell because of the rubbish you heard from someone else and inadvertently took is as truth sounds much worse.

toba:
Good advice from you,i hope God will visit u personally.lol

Too late for that I think.

I speak from personal experience and how I wanted to know god personally(didnt see shiit).

A new convert doesnt need you to start exegising, compiling, thiesis, debate, fighting etc. He wants the basic of how does he approach god.

My dad is muslim (not a serious one I might add) and my mom a christian. Despite being taught both faiths I chose christianity coz it offers a promise of ''personal relationship'' with god. We're all human beings and such an idea of a sort of relationship with your maker will attract anyone. As a child its even harder to dismiss.

Then what did I see? I get bamboozled with crap left right and center everyone claiming to know. I ask questions I hear this from Mr A, hear another from Mr B, mr C tells me to shut the fck up and just obey, i read the bible and see D. I'm like what the hell is this?

Bible says ask the Holy spirit, pray to god. I ask and dont see nada. I'm able to say, I never had any problems growing up. We were too comfortable, i had no health issues, i did good in school, my parents were wonderful. My prayer points consisted of god let me get that bmx bike this christmas and so on. My only serious and heartfelt prayer then was how do I know god coz I wanted from the source and not the undiluted BS everyone is putting my way.

Well all this happend till I was 11 years old and that was when I started using my brains instead of waiting for some imaginary white man to come save me. I broadened my horizons, observed the world around me and discovered things. All this coincided with when I started getting taught science in high school.

You'd be amazed at what u'd see if u read the bible with ur rational mind. I guess thats why they tell u not to use ur head when it comes to faith to keep u in perpetual bondage.

Either way thats why till today no one can come tell be crap about how I didnt believe, or didnt pray or was this or that. I know how sincere I was then. I put it all down as the longings of a child. Now I'm an adult and have forsaken childish hankerings. And i urge u all to do too.

My point is, that promised relationship is the basis and not bombarding people with your opinions. You are a NEW believer because you want that relationship and not because you have it already as viaro wrongly stated. If he crams the whole bible and yet has no connection with your god then its purely baseless and of no use.

PS: this stands true for those genuine new converts who want to know and love god and not those like we have in majority today who want god to solve all their life problems. Those ones can do without personal relationship, they prefer it business like. we see every month, I pay my taxtithe, you bless me.end of deal.

I have a suggestion. I do not delude myself that you self appointed ''christian Teachers'' would take it into consideration. Since you know-it-alls seem to think u've got it all

The first thing to be taught a believer is how to have a PERSONAL relationship with your god. This PERsOnal relationship is important as faith can only take you so far.

nuclearboy:
@Tudor:   

Are you sure, Bro, that your anger is not coming from the days of Inesqor being male/female and your anger at not being answered then? 

I dont know whether to feel sad or sorry for you.

You must be mistaking me for Deep Sight coz he was the one chasing Mavenbox' pants all over town.

Whist I would agree with you in ENTIRETY normally, this thread does something none else does -[b] it refuses to intepret Scripture. All Inesqor does is say "read about the prophecy pointing to Jesus in Is 53" etc. He then allows the reader to make their personal conclusions. Thats not opinionated but factual. [/b]It is also fair to all concerned.

This is funny. . . . You quote isiah bla vs bla and label it ''Prophecy concerning jesus'' and you say that isnt interpreting?

Soon you'll quote john 55 vs 44 and label it ''The trinity'' then malachi 3 : 10 and label it ''Tithing''.

InesQor:
@Tudor: Thanks for your comment.

FTR, I want to let you know that there is nothing here about any "version of Christianity". It's a discussion board and if you have alternate understanding to the presented information, it would be fine to discuss. I also do not believe in taking spiritual material hook line and sinker. I believe they are signposts leading to a destination, and not the destination in themselves. When one receives such information, they can check up on it against what the Holy Spirit tells them. I do not believe in reading "alternatives" to Bible scriptures. In this thread, I do not have any plans to explain away any scriptures except in their own light. When people like Deep Sight ask questions based on the topical discussion, I intend to answer in my own understanding,

signposts indeed. . . .i like that word.

What do sign posts do? THEY LEAD AND POINT TO A SPECIFIC SCRIPTED DESTINATION.

You present ur scripted ''sign posts'' advice them to follow ur ''sign posts'' before they read the entire bible. Unto what end?

Incase you have amnesia, herez the quote from the OP Quote from Mavenbox

This back-to-basics Bible Digest is mainly targeted at new believers, and aimed at extracting the wealth of the Scripture by approaching it in a back-to-basics fashion. This way believers will get the nub of the scriptures without going through the entire Bible at first (That can be done after the digest).

firstly you clearly outlined your targets, New i.e vulnerable converts. Then went on to claim you'll be EXTRACTING WEALTH OF THE SCRIPTUREs. . .not enough, you then Guaranteed that they WILL get the nub of scriptures without reading the entire bible.

It means that whatever doodle you come up with has been defacto declared ''wealth of scripture'' and ''nub of scripture''.

And you claim not to be trying to force your own version of christianity on new converts? Do you think we are stupiid?

I guess in your opinion, that also means that the scriptures and letters of the apostles were a waste of time? By the same token, everyone should have just discovered their God by themselves and get all the understanding? Seen. FTR, I'm not comparing this to the scriptures, but I'm saying a discussion like this is entirely Biblical.

You compare the drivel you post on NL to the scriptures then in the same sentence claim not to compare them?

Are you diseased?

On what basis do you make this refrence/comparison or whatever you wanna call it?

FTW, I don't believe in indoctrination. As Deep Sight said on another thread, everybody is responsible for the information they receive and how they handle it. You cannot repress an outflow of free expression, but you have the right to sift it and dismiss it as is necessary. I have good conversations with many non-Christians without any conflict, I simply dismiss their ideas when I don't see it as right.

And you seem to be contradicting yourself, insinuating we claim a monopoly on the topical information, and also saying that I have used "in my opinion,. . . by my understanding, etc". Those two claims of yours contravene one another, because it is for the fact that I do not know it all, that I express my understanding the way I see it. I do not know enough, but I am never too shy to say what I know, and if I find out I am wrong, I am ready to drop my beliefs and pick the truth in any case. But I need to be convinced beyond any doubt. Nobody here has claimed to enjoy a monopoly of knowledge in any form or extent.

All this is pure BS based on what I've said above.


You mostly used the ''In my opinion'' label when discussing with deep and krayola coz you know they are smart enough to tear you to pieces when you come with your ''my view is truth'' banter.

Nowhere in the OP did you state that what will be expressed here are opinions and nothing more rather you claim to be extracting wealth and nubs.

Nowhere in the OP did you advise them to seek guidance or clarification from the holy spirit. Just presented your ''sign posts'' and yelled follow.

That was how u were claiming to know gods plan for business and human resource development. I laugh.

Last I checked this is a civil discussion board allowing free expression, and there has to be a set of topics for discussion, so in the OP some topics have been outlined so that new believers can discuss, ask questions and everyone can benefit from it all. If you have a better suggestion on how this can be done, please kindly indicate. Or create it in a new thread.

Have a great week.

how'bout stop trying to force your own fabricated version of christianity on new converts. And stop giving them alternative nuggets (poisoned with your crap) to reading the bible which should be the first thing a christian does on being converted.

what a senseless thread. another attempt by another deluded group to force their own version of christianity on ''new converts''.


This is the sad thing with these self-labeled ''Teachers'', ''enlightened ones'' etc who claim to know. when in actual fact all they have is opinions formed from what they themselves understand from the word. you then see them starting posts with, ''in my opinion'', '' from my understanding, ''. WHAT?

This is both insulting and wicked to the New convert. People want to hear the TRUTH and not your bloody opinions. And if You dont know for CERTAIN that what you have is truth then you have no business pushing people to follow the same line as you do.

For a New convert, truly seeking god, this is a matter of his ''eternal life'' and a gravely serious matter. some wicked crazy people see it as an opportunity to show-off that they went to 'bible college' , bamboozle them with crap coloured in different fonts and confuse with senseless technicalities.

In an ideal situation, this is where the holy Spirit is supposed to come in, the ultimate teacher of truth. if we already have a teacher in the holy spirit, why the hell do we need nairaland quacks who even claim to give online spiritual business MBA's?

To every new convert out there, pls stay away from crooks who'll suggest and point you to certain parts of the bible in the name of ''This way believers will get the nub of the scriptures without going through the entire Bible at first'', This is the first step to indoctrination. you are supposed to read the entire bible first before anything and not the other way round. Let no man point you anywhere, ask god to teach and guide you (maybe you'll have better luck than i did coz I got no answer) coz you are dealing with your eternal life here and you have to find your own path and not rely on the crap a drunkard typed on nairaland.

osifred:
@tudor my sweet friend that i dont even know. please do me a favour by watching what you speak especially as it concern men of GOd.

Those are not men of god, rather they are thieving dogs.

vanitty:

Yes it was just another tithe thread . . an accusatory one infact, with all the negative reasons you gave of why they have decided to take on the practise. That makes me know you are not interested whatsoever in the reason you might get here, your mind is made up.  you are just here to shout a bit, quote the bible a bit and log off

How are we meant to know the reasons your church decided to start calling people to the front? What you should have done was to have asked your pastor at the end of the service. That is what majority of us would have done. Why waste your time in a church where you don't believe in their doctrine

Majority of us that shouts we are Christians are nothing but Bible religious knowledge students, of course we can quote any verse from Genesis to Revelation. We just read the bible like we are reading the standard newspaper. We have this amazing way of reading the bible to please us and us alone, who are we deceiving?!

Tithing is one thing that is spiritual, if you have the spirit of the Lord in you ,  however it leads you, do.
You don't have to give your tithe, this is not a do or die affair. But, have you asked yourself why this is bothering you so?

Are you blind? did you not see where he said he asked his pastor and was told its ''instruction from HQ''.

You should have read through before shooting off your mouth. That is what majority of us would have done.

^^^^ who is this slowpoke? do i know you?

Snow man:
It is funny how people can hide behind a computer and say stuff. Tudor can sit on her behind and keep saying Grin is useless scum and stuff like that. You never did anything in your life you should not have done right? A human being died Dagrin or not and you can say such things. No wahala if you are convinced in your heart about all these things you are saying,go to computer village or shitta and just whisper that opinion.Otherwise dont sit behind your computer because you are faceless and say stuff. silly B*T*H.

who gives a damn? i'm not gonna bust my arse feeling sorry for a dude who drank and killed himself. arividechi to his dead arse

davidif:
You sir are scum.

Thank you sir. . . I dont drink and drive neither do I exalt irresponsible people who put the life of citizens in danger by drinking n driving.

If that makes me scum, then so be it.

cold:
You began with IF & eventually went ahead to rubbish the guy like you were the doctor that handled the case.So far, we have not heard any authenticated report that he was DUI,until then these crucifictions are based on assumptions.

Mr man what does the word [size=16pt] IF[/size] mean to you?

incase you are illiterate, the message on my post is based on a conditional and thats why i used the word IF.

eros:
Now this is a very mean and rude thing to say about the dead and most especially Dagrin. There are so may factors that could have led to the accident;

1. There could have being the useless police check point blockade on the road, which he did not see on time and tried to avoid driving into it, but unfortunately ran into the parked truck which obviously did not have safety reflectors or C-Caution sign on it.

2. Most likely he was drunk, but would not deliberately drive into a parked truck if he had seen it. Besides, the truck wasn't supposed to be parked on that road if you have ever driven through Mushin road.

All in all, he deserves part of the blame for the accident because he should have slept over in his friend's house instead of insisting on going home at that ungodly hour. Nevertheless, that does not give you the right to bash him the way you did, alot folks out there will have your head on a platter if you made such a comment in public, because we love him so much and alot of us identify with him.

Look here, i repeat[b] IF HE WAS DRUNK[/b] then good riddance to useless scum.

why drive while drunk? he didnt see the truck? yea, that usually happens when you're boozed out.

even if the police check point or truck wasnt there he could have easily have hit an killed an innocent bystander as I was a victim once too.

funny how we spend time lamenting and crying for an alcoholic when there are worthy people out there deserving our sympathies.

uoe80:
Tudor dearie,my heart bleeds when i read your comments on this thread, when u try to rationalise the things of God you get trapped by the lies of the devil. Giving tithe is a command and not an option,it is for God and thats all that matters, there is no need to quote long scriptures for you cos it is the holy spirit that reveals the truth and until you get that conviction in your spirit you will not understand this issue.The pastor is doing what he has been instructed to do from the G.O. who is working according to heavenly instructions. Point number 2, pastors are held accountable to God for the sins their congregation commit especially if it is what he can ensure they dont commit such as robbing God of tithe.Christainity is all about faith and what is faith?,it is abandonment of human understanding and following God and his words BLINDLY.please i have to beg and plead for your sake, whatever you do, please dont say anything wrong about anointed men of God such as the G.O and Oyedepo. i pray God will grant you wisdom and understaning to discern in jesus name.

seriously i dont know where to start. . . . .kindly read nuclearboy's post

If indeed this guy was intoxicated when he had his accident then i have no sympathies for him and say good riddance.

anyone who is drunk with alcohol and decides to drive deserves to die. some months ago I was cruising jejely on my own next thing a car just appeared from nowhere hit me and next thing I was somersaulting like cloth in a dryer. i pretty much thought i was a goner  and was ready to die. somehow i survived but my car was a heap of crap.

imagine my anger when i found out the basterd who tried to kill me was drenched to the bone in alcohol. had the idiot not died on the spot, i woulda killed him myself!

several months later insurance have refused to pay out and i had to get a new car. all this problem because some fool decided to drink and drive.

thank goodness that dagrin fool didnt take an innocent life with him. . . . thank goodness he died alone.

K2:
Read over what I wrote again very well, comprehend, and then you may respond. Secondly, I would probably not discuss much with you because what you have cited exhibits the deficiency common in someone who has only skimmed and not studied their Bible: Mixing, mashing and lumping scriptures together with absolute disregard for context. Let me ask you, have you studied the entire Bible? I would suggest you actually prayerfully study (not read) your Bible right from Genesis to Revelation. A study Bible or bible with concordance will be of a great help in doing this.  If you do this, not only will you understand God more, your life will change, you’d also begin to get a grasp of other Christian doctrines and not only tithes and be able to “rightly divide the word of truth”.

My friend stop being ambiguous. . . . Why dont you ''educate'' us and we'll see if you've indeed read the bible or not.

you lot prefer to twist and manipulate the scriptures to suite your greed. the issue of tithes have been discussed extensively in this section. so every regular here has heard it all before. if you've got a new version lets hear it.

A fresh approch to christan radio is asking if god cares about soccer?? Pphew!

[quote author=tosinaded@ link=topic=459705.msg6188181#msg6188181 date=1276175059]this is wut happens wen u talk abt wut u know nothing off!

do u pay tax to your church? where did u get that from?

as for the 10%. .  .go buy a bible and stop being ignorant, unless u dnt biliv the bible. . . it says a tenth!

wwho gives tithes to pastors? do u give your tithes to pastors or to your church?[/quote]read your own copy of the bible and find out the following

A tenth OF WHAT EXACTLY?

A tenth TO WHOM?

A tenth FOR WHY?

A tenth FOR TO BE USED FOR WHAT?

K2:
@OP, If you are struggling to pay just 10% to God, it's either out of ignorance, or something is really wrong or you've not genuinely surrendered your life to Christ. What's 10% of your money when what God demands from every Christian is far greater? We all know that God doesn't not need our money to survive but it's a concept He's trying to teach us. Are we able to trust Him to supply all our needs based on 90% that we keep? Are we able to give our all to Him? Giving 10% is nothing. In fact, tithe is just the floor level. Read your Bible very very well. Examine the giving life of Abraham- study why God said He'd truly bless him; Study about Solomon-read what made God to appear to him and promise him great riches; Study-David. Also study when they were to build the tabernacle and the people gave so much that Moses had to tell them to stop giving. The reason I'm saying study is that it's possible just to browse the Bible and not get inspiration. Likewise, look at the New Testament. God gave all, "His only begotten Son". Look at the Apostles in the early church. The bible said each sold whatever they had and laid it at the apostles' feet. Now tell me which is more all or 10%? Let me also shock you, in refrence to your saying about waiting for God in an extraordinary way to personally minister to you before you start tithing, there are some things that God wouldn't minister personally to you when He's already sending someone to you or making avenue for you to know and practise them. Examples abound in the Bible of this.
Being born again is easy but the cost of discipleship, a responsible member of the body of Christ is very very high. I submit to you that you cannot die for Christ's work or sacrifice to His cause if 10% (floor level) is a big deal to you.

all these is just useless rhetoric used to blackmail sincere christians. . . . Oh, if you cant give 10% percent all the time then you cant possibly love god. This IS A LIE.

A man gives offerings every sunday, pays first fruit, give prophet seed, pays building offering, donates for pastors welfare, gives to the poor, helps widows and orphans BUT as long he doesnt give 10% of his dough to pastor all these are in vain , as he doesnt 'love'' God and is therefore ''cursed''. . . . You are all THIEVes.

The instruction is GIVE and it shall be given unto you NOT ''give 10% and it shall be given unto you''. Where is it written that god blesses you based on the 10% that you give?

You are supposed to give based on the promptings of the holy spirit or out of the abundance of your heart, be it 10, 5, 50, or 133%.

To teach that there is a CUMPULSORY levy by god of 10% is unbiblical and criminal.

[quote author=Kenny_G link=topic=459705.msg6187885#msg6187885 date=1276172127]"Malachi 3:10"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
Leviticus 27: 30&32 "'Thus all the tithe of the land, of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S; it is holy to the LORD"
What other biblical refernce do you need when its obvious you have no regard for God's ordinance,[/quote]Mr, this doesnt quite kill it.

Incase you missed it, here is what i asked in bold
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=459705.msg6187584#msg6187584 date=1276169677]But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation." (Malachi 3:7-9).

did you ever read this verse before?

Can you pls produce the ORIGINAl ORDINANCES as given by god showing how tithe should be paid, why it should be paid, who its meant for and what it should be used for and compare with what is being preached today.

[/quote]

[quote author=tosinaded@ link=topic=459705.msg6187920#msg6187920 date=1276172512]tudor u neva ans my question o. . . . .[/quote]wat question? I dont understand.

[quote author=Kenny_G link=topic=459705.msg6187693#msg6187693 date=1276170571]O trust me I've read it since forever, I guess the issue here is "Faith". The just shall live by faith, I dont need any pastor to cajole me to give 10% of my income, I do it willingly and with joy it will be hard for anyone who does not believe in God to give N50 to the okada man to take him to church let alone give offering or tithe. At the end of the day its all about what God is to you,
So as long as he means nothing to you tithing would be akin to extortion in your eyes,[/quote]Mr man, I dont care if you willingly sacrifice your son in the name of tithe, what I'm against is like one poster who said ''you are cursed if you dont pay tithe i.e 10% of your salary to pastor'',

I asked for a quote in the bible that says so, you brought malachi. Which made clear refrence to ''god's own ordinance''. I then requested that you show me gods original instruction about tithe and what it entails. You then come at me with ''faith''?

Dont deceive yourself. . . .rather that ''faith'' I think you're dealing with ''FEAR''. Most people who pay tithe do it out of fear of ''the curse'' which rogues like Adeboye help propagate.

When you use fear or intimidation to obtain money from people THAT IS THIEVRY. Adeboye is a criminal, same goes for those bling bling idiots like Oyedepo.

Tithing is NOT an obligation. For it to be taught as that is both criminal and wicked.

[quote author=tosinaded@ link=topic=459705.msg6187517#msg6187517 date=1276169143]am sorry but any1 who is a christian should know that tithing is in the bible!


to those labelling pastor's as rogues, the fact that u dnt biliv in christianity. . .  .dsnt mean that its not real! and it dsnt mean that it dsnt exist. . . . . .
its better to keep mute on things like this![/quote]yes. . . And stoning disobedient children is IN THE BIBLE,

Sending your menstruating wife to go live in the bush until after her period because shez ''unclean'' is also IN THE BIBLE,

I wonder why your parents didnt stone you for disobedience or why your mother wasnt sent to the bush to live because of her ''unclean'' menstration since THEY ARE ALL IN THE BIBLE.

[quote author=Kenny_G link=topic=459705.msg6187471#msg6187471 date=1276168809]Malachi 3:6-10[/quote]

"Even from the days of your fathers[b] ye are gone away from MINE ORDINANCES, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts.

But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation." (Malachi 3:7-9).[quote][/quote]did you ever read this verse before?

Can you pls produce the ORIGINAl ORDINANCES as given by god showing how tithe should be paid, why it should be paid, who its meant for and what it should be used for and compare with what is being preached today.

[quote author=Ben-10 link=topic=459705.msg6187358#msg6187358 date=1276167843]In Assemblies of God church, it has been like that.

Besides, things like this should be done to Nigerians to understand the real importance of Tithing, since they can't learn it simply from the Bible that cursed are they if they don't pay it.

The original intention for the format isn't as the poster suggested - to shame others. Nope!
It's normal that prayers are done for those who pay it.[/quote]Where it written in the bible that you are cursed if you dont pay 10% of your cash to pastor?

That rogue Adeboye is constantly innovating new ways to dupe people. . . What a thieving basterd.

as long as there are religious sentiments to be exploited there will never be peace in the middle east . . . ISLAM and Peace are so far off, in fact they shouldnt be in the same sentence.

Dude was ''kidnapped'' nand now lives in ''arizona''. . . .yea right.

if hez living there against his will, why not sue or leave?

Me thinks sanctions are just a waste of time. . . . Iran is hell bent on acquiring nuclear weapons and the only way they'll be stopped is through military action.

whoever feels the most threatened should do the honours. . . .

funny thing is when as a result of their foolishness war starts, Ahmadinejad and his useless group would go hide in bunkers while the bombs rain on innocent iranians who have nothing to do the nuclear programme.