₦airaland Forum

freecocoa:
If people were sensible enough to know that, what is considered "bad" should be for both genders, then we wouldn't have women lying about such things.

Cocoa stop being daft. It is bad for both sexes, but;

1. The effects of promiscuity on the sexes differ - men are simply not as vulnerable to the physical pathologies.
2. Men and women look for different things in a mate. Some I've outlined above for men.
3. Indeed, women will rarely have issues with an experienced man - other qualities are higher priority
4. In fact, if a man is "endorsed" by similar or higher value women, the more likely the woman is to actually desire him.

Now, please get sense - and reform your ways . Or you will really hear it.


TV

crackhaus:
I believe the problem being with a woman with a high body-count (darn, I hate this word) has more to do with the possibility that you might know or run into three or more men who have had sex with her in the past...and trust me, YOU do not want to be in that situation where you overhear three strangers whispering about how your beloved wife used to bounce and scream on their erect c0cks.

It's way more than that Cracky; it really does have a number of potential implications.

- A high count affects a womans ability to bond (the ability is impaired through repeat bonding and un-bonding)
- It means she is more likely to be dissatisfied with her union (having romanticised the past or having truly had better past experiences)
- A real biggie is her likelihood to cheat - unless you are sure she sees the error of promiscuity (one of men' biggest fears is being cuckolded)
- You are also more likely to take possession of a child that's not yours (probably an even bigger fear)
- It also has potential to impact, attitude, character and behaviour

- Abortions increase the incidence of cancers, later still births and overall fertility
- STD's can also affect health and fertility down the road
- Some pathologies, cervical cancer etc. are directly correlated to high levels of promiscuity

One can luck out and find someone with a high notch count who has a totally reformed outlook and no lingering health issues. But to act like it doesn't pose a potential risk and give it no consideration, is in my opinion, quite irresponsible.


TV

A40:
No. You are completely missing the point! I'm simply telling you to look at the bigger picture, you are clearly fixated on the idea that a woman being a virgin makes her an ideal or superior partner. That is megedefegede

I told you there was nothing to quibble about, and you are reaching with your assertions; I am not fixated - but I see it as a consideration (amongst others), and not something to be overlooked. Neither have I said virginity makes a woman ideal or necessarily superior. What I have said is ATBE, a virgin to low count will be preferable to a high count. I have also said increased count brings increased risk - and those risks are behavioural as well as physical.

A40:
Body count? Puna get meter? No be wetin dem tell you you go know? Abeggi! We know una type even if she tells you its only 2 you would be like 2!! That's too much

Not a meter per se, but promiscuity can engender all kinds of issue, which can potentially rear and prove problematic in a later union.

A40:
Do you think Barack cared about Michelle's body count? Angela Merkel Madame Bettencourt? Its not a consideration for me and never will. So I'd turn down a woman who could potentially complete me because of something as flimsy as that? No can't do

I said I am not being prescriptive, whether one is concerned or not, checks or not, that is their prerogative. I happen to believe it is something to be be given due consideration - and advise accordingly.

A40:
It increases zilch if she is not sleeping around while you are with her. There are numerous health issues that can plague a couple that go above and beyond her s€x history

The deep bonds that form between a couple can be impaired if a woman has repeatedly bonded and unbonded in the past. Do you know women may even carry epigenetic/phenotypical detail from previous lovers (forgive my weak science)?

And as already stated, the higher the number of priors, the more likely a woman is to be dissatisfied in a union. And there are numerous health issues that can arise as a result of her sexual history.

A40:
For you perhaps. I on the other hand do not believe success or failure is transmitted s€xually

And you are free to both believe and act on that. I believe it can have an impact, so should be considered.


TV

^{I must say I am puzzled at your insistence of totally separating a woman's notch count from her character or behaviour, and also seemingly able to view sexual actions as devoid of moral implications and therefore not a consideration when choosing a spouse?}

Mindfulness:
The evidence is your post history. Very one-sided and the result of painful experience with the female folk, obviously.

It's been a while I posted pictures of my "too cute by far family", I'm coming


TV

A40:
How is that a strawman? I'm essentially telling you there is more to a woman than her virginity. I have never said not being one
makes you a better person than an actual virgin. I'm saying to me it counts for zilch.

It's a strawman because you are saying a virgin may well make a bad wife - true - but as if a non-virgin cannot be a bad wife for exactly the same reasons a virgin can. And being a non-virgin can present issues as a result of that exact reason.

I do not judge a woman according to her virginity, for all but two in the world, I don't even care . But, when it comes to taking a wife, body count is a factor and should therefore be a consideration. I'm not being prescriptive mind, just my view.

A40:
There are various medical ways to check and confirm your intended partner is A-Ok so find another story. Abi non sexual diseases no dey? Abeg make we leave story for Puff daddy.

A high body count increases risk - of both physical and non-physical issues. Fact!

A40:
What of guys who knack both good and bad girls? Abi a girl that knacks is bad by default?

You're essentially defining a girl by who she slept with. Smh

Nope, I'm saying it's a consideration when choosing a wife.


TV

Mindfulness:
The people you are so eagerly judging happen to be female ALL THE TIME.
At the same time you ignore any "immoral" contributions from your friends and even justify them.
Never mind, only women are responsible for the moral decadence you perceive and complain about. Men are just innocent victims. They can't help it.

Another baseless assertion. You made this one earlier;

Mindfulness:
Where is your integrity when you don't call out on those who tell others to abstain from premarital s.ex and in the same breath say that they themselves don't have to?

I asked you to provide evidence., you simply skipped away .

I do not ignore contributions, I respond to challenges to my own assertions. Now, provide evidence of me judging females, or shaming women or justifying immoral contributions from others. Go on, shame me publicly !


TV

Mindfulness:
I have no religion. Religion is for those who are not sure that God exists.

Keep ducking and weaving - no one asked you about religion, but your belief system, which is proving painfully incoherent.

Mindfulness:
[size=14pt]So your Bible does not contain this passage Mr Slut / Single Mother / Divorcee Shamer? [/size]

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Firstly, please don't quote the bible; you simply don't know, understand or esteem it.
Second, don't quote it to prove a point to me, you don't have the wherewithal
Thirdly, you are a blasphemer, leave it.

John 7:24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
1 Corinthians 6:5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?

Again, firstly, I am a mature Christian male - ergo an elder. Not only am I able to judge, I am expected to; actions, issues, situations. That does not mean I condemn. I always give leave to repentance and redemption. Even when speaking generally, I speak of a change of heart or mindset.

Secondly, it's about being hypocritical - judging something as wrong, or an error and practising the same.

Thirdly, I am willing to be judged according to the measure I apply !

Now are you or anyone else here willing to say that promiscuity, wilful single motherhood or divorce are good things? That's all I have ever said - noting that there is typically a multi-level cost to society. Anyone that can claim there is no moral wrong or social cost, can please make themselves known to the board

Mindfulness:
And you have the audacity to speak of coherence and integrity?

Funny how all the people you are shaming are always female.

You base cunning is evident, always running or rescinding, or resorting to invective. You say an adult can do as they please, then decry age gaps. Contradictory much? You claim it's the owner of the body to do with as they please, then claim statutory rape, then that there is no set age. YOu are as muddled as your beliefs .

I've told you, I don't shame individuals. We have women do that !


TV

Strawman:
Well thank you.

Apparently someone is using double of myself, I hope there is no problem here?

You are most welcome.

No problem - unless your name is Mindfulness !


TV

Mindfulness:
Where is your coherence Mr Slut / Single Mother / Divorcee Shamer? Does your religion not dictate that you should not judge others?

You don't know what "my religion" says. But Quelle surprise, you don't appear to know what your own religion says either !

Mindfulness:
Where is your integrity when you don't call out on those who tell others to abstain from premarital s.ex and in the same breath say that they themselves don't have to?
Hypocrisy at its peak.

As ever you struggle, flounder, fall flat, and then resort to pained ad hominem...please show me where I ever excused men from NSBM or excuse them when they fell short.

Better take advantage of your ban sharpish .


TV

Strawman:
Yes, how may I help you?

Welcome - grab a seat, have a beverage !


TV

Mindfulness:
So someone saying that an adult has the right to sleep with as many people as they choose to is the same as encouraging people to sleep with minors or babies? Really? Is that your "logic"?

...are you trying to write and do kegels at the same time I said integrity, and I said coherence!!!


TV

A40:
You could be a virgin and still be a terrible wife, mother, person and manager of resources, you could be one and not help your man get to where he needs to in life. There is more to being a wife than virginity abeg. I don't know SB in person but from the little I've read I wouldn't want anything to do with her and no it has absolutely nothing to do with who she knacked

That's a double strawman;

I said ATBE...guess what? non-virgins can be terrible wives, mothers, and managers of resources (they've already proven the last one se? )

And yes, there is more to being a wife than virginity, I made that point quite clearly. But having a body count of >2 for a woman increases the risk factor - at the very least. And, there is no evidence of a correlating effect for men - although I would question that.

...and who "she knacked", would have everything to do with who she is!

TV

Mindfulness:
I have actually taken everything back I said about this case a day later. Go back to the thread and read it up if you care.

...which thread would that be - the woman who wanted to wreck a 23 year marriage, the Emir case or the SB issue - your belief system seems to contradict itself every time you trot it out...

Abeg return that day pass. I'm also slapping you with a 14 day ban Re-present yourself when you are able to bring some coherence !


TV

pickabeau1:


See twisting....

TV

Mindfulness:
There is no straight answer to this question. Everyone matures differently and everyone is ready at a different age.

My straight answer is NSBM. You are being hypocritical in citing the law in the SB case as you do not actually subscribe to it or a fixed age per se. As you are free to indulge your libido as you please, so should anyone else be. Ergo, unless it was forced rape, in the SB case, he has done nothing wrong in your book. It also speaks to your hypocrisy in the Emir Sanusi case.


TV

A40:
Documented by whom? Its not an exact science. A lot factors can lead to dissatisfaction in marriage and it goes beyond a woman's chastity before marriage.
There are risks involved I agree but there are a lot of other things that could also mess with your health in today's world anyway

I won't quibble, as there is no need, I caveated with ATBE. At the very least it increases the risk factor.

Would you choose SB over a similarly situated virgin? Or advise your brother to if you are a woman?


TV

Kimoni:
but you can be much nicer naa

While I won't dispute the truth in your post, I am not too sure a general statement like that can represent the norm. I think we are way better than that.

I'm not saying it's all, or the norm in the extreme, but there are few women of truly noble character - likewise for men. But I speak as a man to other men. No offence.


TV

Mindfulness:
@bold

Timbuktou has just claimed men are.

I believe Tim stated that women are the gatekeepers, no tthat they could force anyone through.

Integrity or we'll revoke your invite !


TV

Mindfulness:
By law.

Cop out...baba nla one sef

Who makes the law? Plus, even in countries with different state laws, there is not agreement.

I asked you pointedly what you thought it should be? Please give a straight answer for once.


TV

A40:
Lol. Don't mind TV, s€x is a basic and primal human need.

First, that is simply not true, the human race might not survive without it, but people will !
And it's not for "all of life"; not before puberty, or long after middle-age for most. If it was, we'd have to give it to babies.

There is a best/aspirational setting for sexual congress - that is marriage. Earlier would help.

A40:
Everyone should have a choice and deal with the consequences afterwards.

I have no problem with this at an individual level, but a free-for all at a societal level will not end well.

A40:
Indulging in it or holding body should not define a woman.

No, it won't define a woman, but it will certainly influence her as a wife - every man would take care to be considered about his own wife.

A40:
In the same vein a woman shouldn't knowingly get into relations where that independence is compromised and then hold the man responsible for her actions or inactions

You're having a laugh aren't you? Women are never responsible. They are vulnerable, naive, immature, victims ati be be lo....but never, ever resposible.


TV

Kimoni:
Looool

TV, you are not nice

...neither am I a liar !


TV

A40:
I frankly do not see the connection. Its hard to tell me that would make you a better partner, planner and mother just because you happened to be a virgin before marriage. I no believe that one rara

It's not merely a moral belief, it's documented fact. Women with anything than 0-2 sexual partners before marriage are more likely to express dissatisfaction with their marriages along a range of indicators - All Things Being Equal. Is she's stretched she'll kvetch !

And there are a whole host of other possible issues, fertility etc, simply making it a much riskier exercise.

ATBE being key; not saying a proud stubborn virgin will be better than a properly reformed "bad girl".


TV

Mindfulness:
It is not for you or me to decide when it should be allowed.

So how is your alleging statutory rape in this latest case not hypocritical?


TV

Mindfulness:
TV01 as we know him. Always trying to shame women but not the ones who, according to him, should be in power and thus carry the responsibility in the first place.

Me shame? Shaming is a womans job !

I exhort men to wield their authority equitably and effectively, and to take ownership and responsibility for their actions. Feminists want the authority of men without the resposibility and sacrifice. Fine, have your unfettered liberty and sexual freedom, but don't come whining when it explodes in your face - y'all can't handle it


TV

Mindfulness:
I am not the one propagating chastity here.

Exactly, why castigate what you yourself propagate? Selfish interest first, making oneself happy as a prime directive and self love. If bleeping girls gives them "the feeling", what's your beef?

Even if they demur to marry the very same girls they bleeped, or outright disparage them? Surely all the girls have to do is "heal" and become "emotionally healthy", no other fallout right?

You sound undeniably pained !


TV

^{Tell us Mindfulness, if you subscribe to sex before marriage, what specific age or point should it be allowed?}

A40:
I personally don't care if a woman I'm marrying was chaste before we met. It will not make her a better wife or mother

Actually, unless she has had a a total change of mindset & heart, it almost certainly will.


Per the ongoing theme about older women schooling younger ones you are discussing with Timbuktou; outside of close-knit blood/familial relationships, it simply won't work.

Women are generally too competitive. Competing for - the best – men, and status. And most have an almost embedded sense of where they are placed and the implacable desire to one-upwomanship” others. It’s women who shame the most, and generally disparage others for their looks bodies etc.

It even works in reverse; not only will they try to out-compete, the will work assiduously to pull others down to their level or status. A woman divorces, she will campaign for divorce, she’s a single mum, will describe single-mums as hot cakes. If she sleeps around, she will sell it as freedom/liberating. If she’s ina bad marriage , she will proffer advice likely to harm or crash others.

And they rarely admit mistakes, either rationalising them as good/learning experiences, outright lying to themselves and everyone else, or placing blame elsewhere if it’s undeniable.

T'was ever thus.


TV

Mindfulness:
If you guys have a problem with s.ex before marriage, then lead by example and stop blee.ping girls before you marry them. Or were you all virgins before you got married? Moral decadence? I guess you are all innocent.

Leaving thread.

[img]https://louisajm.files./2014/05/model-falls-o.gif[/img]

I thought your mantra was a persons first responsibility is to make themselves happy? On that basis, if "bleeping girls" - before they marry another girl - makes them happy, your pronouncement here is contradictory.

And nice shaming effort, but it never works against confident men. E get as e be !


TV

tearoses:
TV01 . .
no vex o!
Your attention is needed here as well
Thank you

...ah! See spamming, abi na summons

You have well spoken 0! I hesitate to advise outside my Christian worldview - not least because I don;t know if OP subscribes? The woman in question is at least manipulative, and possibly a certified long-throat to boot. Even of he marries her, she may well change if his situation does. And of course he is of the mind that he does not want to.

Make ample provision for your child - "your child". Extend that to the mother if required to ensure the childs well-being. As soon as appropriate, think about requesting full custody if you are able. Don'at lay with a woman you are not at least commited to marrying - with her family full consent.

Futures are ruined by the kind of careless/irresponsible mistake you made. Hope you learn from it and you continue to enjoy success in your business. You sound quite business savvy. Stop spreading loff, share the knowledge .

All the best


TV

tearoses:
TV01
Please your attention is needed here

I will start calling you into threads if you dont mind

Don't mind, but no promises

Short Answer - Yes!
He has proven he is not trustworthy, or at best seriously callow & immature.

She should however take full counsel - after disclosing all, including any other issues or doubts she may have had - from her family. If she has been upright in all of this and kept her family advised, they would probably have had their concerns - I believe there are always signs.

To call it off may take more strength than she can muster, and mean more pain than she may feel she can bear. Family support will help tremendously here - in coming, and sticking to the right decision.

Pelé dear. But it's best you suffer some temporary pain, than a lifetime of grief.


TV

netotse:
Some babe was in a relationship with the late Kogi state govs son a few years back, it wasn't a healthy relationship, according to her, he made her sleep with his friends and brothers several times and treated her like crap. They met when she was undergoing an internship where he worked years back. He was 25 she was 17. It's the usual naija thing, some people are asking her why she kept going back, some are calling the guy a rapist etc etc.

The recent rash of popularity is because she was jubilating on twitter when the former gov (and at the time of his passing, guber candidate) passed away. The gist had actually come out years ago (she blogged about it).

Hi Netotse, apologies, I’ve been busy. I’ve had a cursory read of some of the comments, but in truth, there is really no need for me to have a sound grasp of the details of this case to write generically about such instances.

I often mention having consistent and end-to-end patterns of thinking. In 2012, we had a discussion on this section about the rights of parents to demand their children remained pure until marriage, as best for them, and especially if that was demanded by the faith of the parents.

Almost everyone derided my position and claimed I was both naive and controlling. The near consensus was that there was no way I could expect young women, especially in tertiary education, not to be sexually active. The main concern was actually about preventing unfortunate outcomes, the main one being an unwanted pregnancy.

I went on to point out other adverse outcomes, such as STD’s, abuse, attendant baggage etc., no takers. It was actually on a thread about a young woman whose mother wanted her to marry a set man in his thirties after graduating. But as often happens, conversations morph. I went looking for it, but again, as often happens, it was locked and deleted?

I was so gobsmacked, I repeated the question on another thread – same outcome;
https://www.nairaland.com/1084309/debrief-cotton101-those-came-out/19#12739295
https://www.nairaland.com/1084309/debrief-cotton101-those-came-out/16#12733260

My conclusion then and now;
https://www.nairaland.com/1084309/debrief-cotton101-those-came-out/27#12762743
https://www.nairaland.com/1084309/debrief-cotton101-those-came-out/27#12763249

On statutory rape; even in most Western countries, such laws are rarely applied in an open and shut manner, cases are typically nuanced, with the overriding principle being one of preventing exploitation.

Western countries are not actually particular about females being sexually active at a young/minor age. The UK for example will provide contraception for pre-teens and teenagers – even allowing them to undergo abortions, or give out children for adoption – without their parents knowledge.

And the adoption point I know for sure. A girl came to study in the UK, had a baby and returned to Nigeria having given the baby up. It was only discovered because the NHS sent her a letter, which was opened by someone at the address she had her mail redirected to.

We had another thread on this section - the debate of 2013 in December of that year. I recall Obinoscopy' winning final entry, it cited the research that shows youngsters typically don't reach full maturity till around 24 anyway. Notions of statutory rape are just a ruse.

Ewuro4, your message is powerful and important. Please keep stressing it. It’s not just abuse or exploitation. Without the tight-marking of parents or something almost exactly like, it’s so easy to lose focus, lack discipline, and underachieve.

Secondly, it’s odd that women are just screaming statutory rape as if that’s the be all and end all of this issue. In the instance mentioned, would what she claims to have gone through be ok if she were 18, 19, 20 or even older - and fully consensual? It’s also hypocritical, because on one hand, the cry is for sexual freedom, on the other, it’s pleading statutory rape when the freedom is enjoyed without maturity or restraint and there are painful consequences.

When you play the free for all sexual game, you can’t really legislate for foul play – and even where you do, and enforce it, the damage is rarely reversible. Plus, rights can only be expansive – which 17 year old will think it fair if she is denied what an 18 year old is – what difference does 1 day actually make? And down the age- line, as teenagers become more precocious and exposed to early sexualisation. Even if we take the girls word at face-value and thoroughly excoriate the accused, nothing will change if the game doesn't.

I am an unabashed Christian and will happily go with biblical writ without understanding why. But here we can clearly see the damage that can ensue. I remain more than happy to be labelled naive and controlling.

Pertinent to note in the two big instances of abuse/fraud we have had on here recently, a broken family structure has been evident. I will remain a firm advocate of stigmatising out of wedlock pregnancy and divorce, and counselling NSBM . Happy to be labelled for that as well.

One of the Kardashians started dating Tyga the rapper when she was 17 and he was 25. Why didn’t Feminists and SJW pursue this as a case of statutory rape? Why wasn’t he charged?

Funnily enough, most sexually precocious teenage girls have no truck with boys their own age. Someone I dated told me how after a while she started to see her – first – age-mate boyfriend like a ”small boy” and ditched him for an older “more mature” man.

Hypocrites everywhere, foaming at the mouth at the outworking of what they themselves agitate for.


TV
^{John 3 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.}

netotse:
hey guys,

I've been reading about the sugabelly scandal and it's really upsetting if you ask me.

I see that to some extent we guys don't appear able or willing to hold ourselves to higher standards, pretty depressing stuff.

Totally missed this. Is it a ML issue? What are the facts??


TV

netotse:
So guys(and assistant guys ), I've been meaning to ask this question for a long time but I keep procrastinating:

Is there a difference between married and unmarried sex? I'm close to tying the knot and the missus and I are NSBM and sometimes I wonder.

I mean, you're married, so there's little furtive about married sex is there?(not counting when kids arrive), do you have the same thrill?

netotse:
it's a personal decision we both took separately (yep, root of the matter is Christianity), it hasn't been easy particularly because I'm not exactly a saint but it'll soon be over.

The closer the wedding gets, the easier it is to cross lines and I have at times wondered "what's the point?" but God dey sha.

Holá Netotse, I kinda missed this, so for what it's worth. Theologically this is pretty clear cut. NSBM is exactly right. When a couple agree and have the blessing of their families - and most especially when they are absolutely committed and their motivation is pure - I'm not sure the formality of actual marriage rites would make a huge physical difference.

Even the spiritual implications may be considered on the basis on which point the union actually takes place, as opposed to being formalised. In practice, I'd say wait, but that's as much for your witness to others as for yourself.

Your Christian walk is just that, yours. Although in this case there are two journeyers, so as a man it's good to hold to what you agreed - for your credibility - even if you feel somewhat differently. If you do/have your conscience will be a fair judge.

The only other practical consideration is if for any reason the union is not formalised - i.e you part ways - then what would one term the act? And of course if the union is not formalised and there is a pregnancy? Fulfilling righteousness, as opposed to being righteous, may mean erring on the side of caution mens you won't go far wrong.

I may sound a little jumbled here, or perhaps not adequately expressed the nuance I see .

All the best for your forthcoming nuptials, most hearty congratulations to the blessed couple. May your union be fruitful in a way that touches everyone around you and glorifies our God and Father.

Best
TV