Thebadpolitican:



Wrong the word ogie means royalty

Other non benin tribe call it king any benin who calls ogie king is not a benin msn

Egie = means a group of royalty

Enogie = the head of village or big community in benin, outside benin with royal installment by the Oba of benin


The title of the king of benin have always been oba, and nothing more

Stop talking like you have proved anything yet to make such conclusion

Royalty is already a group of Royalty, there is nothing like a group of Royalty, Royalty as a word is limitless

you people seem to have a shallow explanation to these things
The word Ogie has existed before the Oba dynasty, who were they now subservient to, who were they now under

The word Ogie means king
Enogie -the king

It is Egie that means royalty

Who were they under before the Emergence of Oba in Benin

For example you can say Oba-mu-egie me meaning Oba has bequeathed royal to me, a chieftaincy title or so

Using Ogie in that contest Oba mu-ogie me would not make sense

samuk:


20 years from now future Edo will find it difficult to defend these four titles as being of Edo origin.

You don't argue that kind of argument, there are some argument you will not argue, you will just be looking at them online

scholes0:


The Uzama as traditional Edion in Igodomigodo existed.
Infact Edion have always been a feature of Edo society from the dawn of time. They are the oldese structured institutions, even before the Ogie-iso which were said to be non hereditary.

What we are exploring right now are the etymologies of the titles of the 4 pairs that are associated with the coming of Oranmiyan into what would later become Benin.

Nor think am abeg, these four titles were the Uzamas themselves, Edion nene. It is not part of it at all. Aside Usen that seem strange, the Entire tradition of Benin from eastern flank to western frontiers see these four titles as natives

samuk:


20 years from now future Edo will find it difficult to defend these four titles as being of Edo origin.

It is not what is under contest, It is what I and my descendants will defend with our chest, I mean none claim origin outside, not that they will be beaten if they claim origin outside. The ones that claim origin outside, they've not beaten, so I don't know why anyone will claim them. They consider themselves natives to the core

scholes0:


Bros, When a Benin person says Ijesu n'Ogie, what does it mean?

Does it mean Jesus is a smaller duke?

it Means Jesus the KING

scholes0:


It might not look very alike on the surface level, but if you know the rules of thumb of how Yoruba lexical articles mutate when they enter the Edo language, you will understand better. For example F in Yoruba many atimes changes to [H] in Edo.

Bro that is not enough, they seem to be natives or so that is what our oral account state,none of them have origin from Yoruba land.

These four Oliha, Edohen, Eholor nire, Ero, these four are the first four Uzamas, Edion nene, that it was gotten externally is highly unlikely. It contradicts our tradition. When an Edo (H) word enters yoruba lexicon, I believe it would still be H to F too.

scholes0:


I don't know if you have both Aro and Ero as separate titles in Benin but in Yorubaland, there is only one Aro.
Odofin is found all over Yorubaland and is not from Benin just setting that straight... It it is not a conjecture, the Odofin title is Odofin in usen and Yorubaland is what you call Edohen. And Usen oral accounts supports this very clearly.
The paper may trace some titles to Benin I am not saying there are no titles in Yorubaland with Benin origin, but not the ones I listed, that's the point.

It is no surprise that many Benin title names actually have their etymologies in the Yoruba language. case in point the Asogbon (Esogban)
, Elukotun/Elukohi of the Ogbe Esasa, the Ariuo (Eriyo), Obajulu (Bazunu), the Asoron (Eson), Asama (Esama) so don't pretend as if influence didn't travel both ways.

But you see that OBA. lol that one is straight out of Yorubaland.

stop attributing titles you are not sure of their origin to yorubaland. Asoron to Eson is so laughable, how sure are you it is not the other way round. Edohen and Odofin does not look alike, the family will actually laugh at you for such theories you postulate here,

Thebadpolitican:



This is were you get it wrong

As a benin man I am telling you

Ogie means Duke

Are the benin not the originator of the word that was later corrupted to Ovie and the other related names by other non benin sub group


The right word is not even ogie for Duke it is called enogie. Ogie means royalty, enogie meaning a royal servant which is known as Duke

The other non benin sees ogie as Duke which is understanding because they are not the originator of the word the word originally is a benin word, the Oba doesn't appoint kings in territores he apoints subordinate which can be liking to as governor

Your explanation is wack just look like you're saying the president should be called a governor because we have 35 state bearing the title governor, then the president should also be called a governor


Is there any other political head in Nigeria that bears President


I showed you a screeshot from Edo north which is not benin but has the word oba as a name

Again the world governor and president do they sound similar so to your own analogy the world president is alien since its not related the word governor that has 35 state governor bearing it as title

The British monarchy
The head is called king
And the chiefs are called = dukes

Is that enough explanation maybe you're just pulling my legs who knows

you people seem to have a shallow explanation to these things
The word Ogie has existed before the Oba dynasty, who were they now subservient to, who were they now under

The word Ogie means king
Enogie -the king

It is Egie that means royalty

For example you can say Oba-mu-egie me meaning Oba has bequeathed royal to me, a chieftaincy title or so

AreaFada2:

Ah! Mr Fifth columnist is here.

You just confirmed what we all already knew. These rulers began as housekeeper, priest, baron or speaker.
Is there any serious student of history who doesn't know these meanings? You talk as if Yoruba is some kind of Sumerian cuneiform or Egyptian hieroglyphic language.

You are still reeling out mythical figures that cannot be proven to have existed as evidence of Oba?

Take Sango as third king of Oyo for example, how reasonable is the timeline and the story? I have read it in many books and saw films on it. No logic at all.

In Benin, we had Oba-godo in Igodomigodo. as an Ogiso. Ogiso meant not god literally from the sky but one heavenly ordained. How could someone whose childhood, parents, family and house and quarter in Benin were known be directly from the sky? It was about divine ordination.

But you still parade mythical figures as evidence of real kingly Obas. Lol.

By the way, I am also familiar with Ifa corpus. I knew the story of Eji Ogbe (Oba Odu) in particular as a kid already.

Europeans have various names for prime minister: Bundeskanzler, Kanzler, Taoiseach, First Minister, Prime Minister, etc. All don't literally mean Prime minister but became regarded as such because all are heads of government. But all have histories about their genesis and evolution. So king came to be known by various names. Even if not literally but all now mean or imply king in that dialect/culture.

So your attempt at reeling out meanings of Olu, Owa, Awujale, Soun, Ooni or Alafin again proves your assumption of oversabi. I probably knew these meanings long before you did. Even if there was anything I didn't know, there are least two major palaces in SW I can ask for information at any time.

in some quarters, it was strictly Ogiso Igodo, the Oba seem to have been the palace addition to it

scholes0:


BTW. [b]Yoruba did not copy - Elema, Aro (which you guys call Ero), Odofin (which you guys call Edohen) from [/b]Benin.
They exist as both titles of palace chiefs and that of the powerful Ogboni aristocracy (Iware/Eghare) as well as the Hierarchy within Ifa Orunmila (Awo cadets)

In Ifa for example:
The Odofin is the second ranking Babalawo after the Oluwo
The Aro is the third ranking Babalawo
The Elemo/Agoro is a chief superintendent of the traditional rites

And that is why you will find these titles in both Eastern AND Western Yorubaland. contrary to your submission that the geographical scope of these titles are limited within Yorubaland. You find them all over. In Ikirun, Iwo, Ilesa (which you mentioned), Abeokuta, Ede, Offa, Ketu. Etc Areas far removed from Benin influence.

what is now your thought as it pertains to those titles

davidnazee:


What you wrote is clear as day light. Don't be embarrassed if your errors are called out.

I don't see how my errors will be cancelled out when the etymology of Ogie is certainly not in Itsekiri
Clearly understanding is not your forte

davidnazee:


If you are actually Bini (which you are not), you will understand that Enogie means The ruler, not the king as you falsely or blindly assume.
And they are dukes, subordinate to the Great Oba of Benin.

I can't be talking with a non-entity like you,
Ogie- king
Enogie-Talks of the personage, The king. I am not arguing with you,I am telling you I am not your mate. Oba is anything but native, has no meaning whatsoever in Edo

davidnazee:


Well Itsekiri won't be far from the truth in that regards. They migrated to a land owned by an Ogie and given accommodation by the Ogie, so the title is actually native to that land.

Your still dey learn bro.

when we talk of IQ levels, you are obviously very low. Did you even understand what I wrote? Please stop quoting me

davidnazee:


Ogie may mean ruler not necessarily King. In all of Edo south no ruler goes by the title Ogie, it's Enogie and their powers/functions are limited to being Dukes.
Outside of Edo south like Delta Ogie may mean King but in Edo south it has a different meaning and function. Oba is king here and Ogie/Enogie are dukes.

see who is correcting my written Bini, Ogie is king
Enogie means the king

Their powers are not limited to being dukes, it is because Bini seem to have had a centralized system whose root is obviously foreign.

Efewestern:


They pieced together Yoruba and EDO titles and even you as a stranger can easily tell what part falls into Edo and what part falls into Yoruba.

Ogie-Ame, Iyasere, Ologbosere... these are titles any Edo subgroup can easily relate with.

I am trying to compare the Ogie scenario in Itsekiri to the Oba scenario in Benin vis a vis yoruba groups. I am trying to say how laughable it would be if the Itsekiri come up in some years time to say the Ogie title is native, such laughable scenario can be compared to what some Binis are doing with the "Oba" title

davidnazee:


Let's keep our interactions within nairaland and the topic. If we venture out of it to learn about each other in real life you may be shocked and intimidated by what you find out. In fact, You go actually shock sha, so make we leave talk of who reach or who no reach lol..

I would not show myself in real life because of the army of Edo youth who are ready to behead me for thinking otherwise, it is like a herd mentality, you people seem to think alike no matter how much fact is shown to you

What I seem to be so perturbed about is that a full graduate who was taught in English all through his schooling totally misread that. Quite shocking, no wonder my father seem to have called state universities advanced secondary schools

Efewestern:


Ooni, Awujale, Alake, Alafin, Olubadan, Oluwo, Olu, etc are not the yoruboid word for king, they are title of each sovereign rulers. I can't give a breakdown of these titles but I'm very sure they mean different thing.

The closest the Yorubas have to Oba is "Baale," which by the way is a low ranking title for a tiny community heads.

It is an established fact that Ogie is an Edoid word for King. Regardless of what some are trying to spin, Ogie means king and not Duke. Now, in Yoruboid, aside Oba, there is no other Yoruba word for King. Olu isn't king. Olu means Lord. Ooni , Alaffin are titles. Baale isn't also close. This leaves us with only OBA, unless you want to convince me that Yoruboid had no word for king.

Also, it makes no sense for Edoid to call King Ogie and Oba. Either one is foreign or the other just mean a different thing entirely.

Now, let's look at History.

When the Bini prince arrived Itsekiri, he met riverine Yoruba dwellers and united them. After the kingdom was established, several Bini aristocratic titles were adopted including Ogie, Ologbosere and Iyasere.

Some Yoruba titles like Olu, Oloye and Olareaja were retained. Being an amalgamation of two culture, Itsekiri retained the Ogie title, the Olu title and the Oba title. Whilst Olu of Itsekiri was more pronounced, their kings were also called Ogie and Oba (See the Itsekiri Anthem).

The children of a king are called Oton-Olu while the heir to the throne is called Oma-Oba. Now, the question is, why is Oba found in Itsekiri and not in Ika? Isoko? Urhobo? Weren't these group also influenced by Bini? Why is it that only groups that share affinity with Yoruba have it in their lexicon?

I think I have seen something close, it is just like the Olu in some years will now say that Edo got the Ogie title from Itsekiri when the etymology is clearly in Edo

davidnazee:


The bolded above is not proper bini language. A truly educated Bini man will know how to properly spell/write that sentence. Once again you have proven yourself to be fake.

Can you tie your own sandals? That should be your first question to yourself. A man that doesn't understand his own roots is a lost man even to himself.

Nor be mouth you nor reach

davidnazee:


Your problem is that you don't come with facts or sources to buttress or prove a point but instead you are filled with questions, confusion and lack of understanding. And when one try to answer your questions, give you reasonable food for thought you become rebellious.
It seems you cannot comprehend the Oba stool being local to Benin but at same time you actually cannot find a true connection with Ife.
It's same way the Yorubas cannot comprehend how Benin Kingdom conquered and rule them for over 700years.

That Bini conquered some part of Yorubaland is not in doubt. I am not really fixated on Ife you can see, but I just believe that at least the Oba has something to do with yoruba moreso the title "Oba"

That any true Bini man would argue the Origin of the word Oba is Even shocking to me

davidnazee:


The bolded above is not proper bini language. A truly educated Bini man will know how to properly spell/write that sentence. Once again you have proven yourself to be fake.

Can you tie your own sandals? That should be your first question to yourself. A man that doesn't understand his own roots is a lost man even to himself.

I cant write Bini properly, there is no where I have said I can write it properly. There is nothing like proven to be fake, there is nothing to gain from the identity my brother. Where I would hold sway is speaking and comprehension when Bini is spoken to me

davidnazee:


Yoruba man, you can cry me a river

It is funny that for someone that claims to have all the comprehension in the world but yet find himself in a confused state, can't even decipher written statements or oral texts shows how much of comprehension skills you have..

What I learned from Ekpoma far outweighs everything you have learned from wherever you went to school..

Tu khian wabua Oriovbe

I say it again, you are not worthy to untie my sandals. If you fail at comprehension which seem to be the foundation of Education, you shouldn't be talking to me we are not mate

The first symptoms of Education is comprehension, if you fail at that, you will fail at anything. If there is anywhere I pride myself in the languages I understand is comprehension, infact it is 💯

Thebadpolitican:


Lol who they calculate kingship lol.... Was there even an advance recording system then that counts the number of kings
the numbers are just being manipulated to fit any narrative they want


Even when the Europeans tried to count the number of kings in benin it was never complete and inaccurate egharevba was just copying the palace chief and the Researcher


Go and read Ugbe and take this nonsense away from my face

Try and browse the pdf Benin Kinglist before you start talking like a drunkard

The 36th kings the Benin mornachy claims is even a wrong fiquare it could be more or less so going by your explanation you're already faulted

quote]Nowhere the Benin monarchy claim 36,it is 40 but then again some had very short reigns eg ezoti, Olua, Uwaifiokun, etc
So anywhere around 35 to 40 is in order as they will not be dying the same period or inform each other they want to die

If you were to ascribe an average of 25 years to those 35 kings, you would get more than 800 years

davidnazee:


e pain you eh lol.. Calm down.
From your posts and questions, one can see that your are full of confusion and seek answers but don't want to accept the obvious truth.

You claim the Oba stool is foreign but Like Samuk pointed out, large parts of yourba lands copied the Benin Monarchy style and not the other way round and this is a proven fact. So who now is practicing a foreign monarchy style judging with this information?

From 15th century up till late 19th century there was no mention of Ife or the monarchy being foreign to Benin (only in 1830 it was documented as being foreign but from a different place not yoruba land).

Anywas I rest my case with you, you cannot be saved.
By the way, I went to Ekpoma.. Auchi is also a great sxhool.

I said it, you write like someone that is weak and lack substance, I said it even Ekpoma is a weak school. The first symptoms of Education is comprehension, if you fail at that, you will fail at anything. If there is anywhere I pride myself in the languages I understand is comprehension, infact it is 💯

Thebadpolitican:


Have you made your inquiries if their territores are even close to a yoruba territory

If they don't then we can begin to believe you and your story of ife and question how they came about

So do your research and get back to me

This is their 35th Olutese, even though there was a 26 years hiatus.

It seem to tally with their history of migration and the datings the Obas of Benin left Ife

samuk:


I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, I thought he was genuinely seeking the truth, but when he started inventing theories that the yoruba themselves avoided, I knew he was a fanatic. As far as he was concerned, he was ready to say anything just to convince himself.

He started out by misrepresenting the palace traditions on Oduduwa, when he was corrected, he said Ekaladerhan died in Ughoton.

He was asked to explain why an established kingdom like Benin would have sent for a complete stranger from little know Ife to come and become their king. He said the Benin people most have been attacked and conquered. He completely refused to see how implausible the story is.

Anyway, how do you convince an Arisco supporter and anyone that lost out in a land dispute with his Enogie that Benin monarch is not yoruba.

I don't know how this so called lone home grown fairytales teller plans to accomplished what an army of yoruba fairytales tellers couldn't achieve on Nairaland.

It's best to ignore him.

You know it does not make sense. It is not an argument you can win. You are actually fleeing, not Ignoring. Anyone who thinks Oba is Edo is either Biheritage, from the Oba's family or highly demented, with very low IQ. The first two is intentional, the last one is sincerely out of Ignorance.

Fight the argument, you are giving me a label to deflect attention from the argument you cannot win. Even you seem to know this truth for yourself

Your second line "Even if you were to be right in a long stretch"

Efewestern:


Exactly my point. Why is Oba only found in groups that share affinity with Yoruba? Why can't we find a trace in other pure Edoid groups ?

The supremacy of the Oba's isn't a enough to invalidate some observations. From what we can deduce: Ogie was once used by the Bini empire pre-migration.

Bini is the root. Before Ogie get accepted by all, then we can conclude that it was the right acceptable word for king before a major change in government.

Ogie isn't less than Oba. Both mean the same thing. Only that one is purely Edoid and the other...

@bolded, another valid observations. Most Edoid groups are republican. There's much to know about our past.

you seem to understand what I am hitting at, putting the title Oba above Ogie seem to be putting Edo and Edoid below and yoruba above, Oba and Ogie means the same thing and it is the same thing. Just that one is Edoid, the other is yoruba.

We just seem to have had a foreign culture where centralization or at least semi-centralization system of monarchy seem to be their in thing. That is why the apex monarchy of the Bini seem to be different in structure and pattern from the rest Edoid groups. And when you observe, Bini seem to be the only centralized state among all Edoid groups.

samuk:


Oba is Benin in Origin. Even if you were to be right in a long stretch, it's still not enough evidence that the oba of Benin is yoruba.

Today more than half of yoruba monarchs share affinity with Islamic religion, some have even adopted Islamic names and titles, does this now mean that they were no longer yoruba in origin?

In the past Oba of Benin seek the best medicine men across the land, there was no place that was too far. Benin was heavily involved in Africa religious practices and renowned native doctors and practitioners of Africa religion were invited to Benin, sometimes to the palace. Any contribution from these various tribes, Ibo, Yoruba etc, doesn't change the Benin Origin of the Oba.

If you argue that the Oba of Benin is from Ife and his title is of yoruba origin, you have to show that Ife had monarchs in the 1500s.

Don't also forget that Easter yoruba was under the cultural influence of Benin for centuries and they copied the Benin style of monarchy and not the other way round.

A word you cannot digest or eat in your language is probably foreign.

The word "Oba" cannot be properly explained in Benin to make sense, but a yoruba man can dissect it for you

Yet still this is a Bini dictionary that was written in 1937.

I have spoken Edo to the extent I now think in Edo, the word Oba is foreign

Thebadpolitican:



Please I want to see were you saw the utese history of migration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s61AzEwcFE

samuk:


We still have to remain vigilant, especially because of those amongst us that have been miseducated or those with ulterior motives, agendas and those pretending to be Benin.

if there is anyone pretending to be Bini samuel, it is the Oba. Oriovbe ore Oba khin

samuk:


So far amongst the Benin on this thread, You have proven yourself to be more than a clown and like I said before you are on your own. You are on a thread where you are against the entire Benin people and what they stand for and still claim to be Benin.

I have been very careful before now not to beleive that your head is blocked and confused as others have been saying, but there is no longer doubt in mind that you are as they described.

Whatever your agenda and ulterior motives are, you haven't be able to convince a single Benin on this thread to join you.

My aim is not to convince any Bini person to join, my aim is to convince myself enough to have peace. Before accepting myself, it took me time, I seem to be convinced enough now, that's all that matters to me

My only sin is that we disagree on where the Oba of Benin come from, you called me a lone ranger, it was sweet to you, I replied with fact that I seem not to be, you started crying.

you guys will not let me breathe, you made me drop some point I would not have dropped because of respect I have for the Oba and the Bini people. if you observed I did not drop those point on time. I had to go all the way to show you I knew what I am doing.

I had known them but I did not drop them on time, you guys pushed me, I had no choice, samuk

samuk:


The very fact that most yoruba now read threads like this quietly is a testament to the amount of collective work done in the past few years to rescue Benin history from these people. UGBE634 is a lone ranger. All Benin people here have told him that his views are narrow and myopic. It's now up to him. One thing should be clear to him by now, that he is on his own on this and his views doesn't represent Benin. However he is entitled to his own fews.

The reason why they are probably quiet is that they are tired of you, they seem to see you as a clown now.

That's a post by macof

samuk:


Oba is Benin in Origin.Even if you were to be right in a long stretch, it's still not enough evidence that the oba of Benin is yoruba.

Today more than half of yoruba monarchs share affinity with Islamic religion, some have even adopted Islamic names and titles, does this now mean that they were no longer yoruba in origin?

In the past Oba of Benin seek the best medicine men across the land, there was no place that was too far. Benin was heavily involved in Africa religious practices and renowned native doctors and practitioners of Africa religion were invited to Benin, sometimes to the palace. Any contribution from these various tribes, Ibo, Yoruba etc, doesn't change the Benin Origin of the Oba.

If you argue that the Oba of Benin is from Ife and his title is of yoruba origin, you have to show that Ife had monarchs in the 1500s.

Don't also forget that Easter yoruba was under the cultural influence of Benin for centuries and they copied the Benin style of monarchy and not the other way round.

Samuel you are getting there, I was there before now, I understand,