AutomaticMotors:


E no fit swear that one

This shows he is yoruba or has a link with them.

Nonsense Ingredients!!!

If you notice I did that earlier, but he cannot be the one dictating the pace of these things, he is too inconsequential for that. I want to leave him to wallow in wonder.

I can do it again but he has to swear to me with his life that he is not Orhogbua then I will do it again. Such persons are never contended, the next he will say post your penis, there is a way an Edo penis look like
[b]I cannot be doing his bidding alone, he has to do mine too.[/b]be the referee

samuk:


1. Who collected the story in Usen In 1939? And who gave the account?

2. Did you seen the thread on Asaba. Incase you didn’t, it started by someone claiming that a tradition was collected in Asaba dating back to early 1911 stating that early Asaba people were Igbo/Ibo, I presented an older account that dates back to 1865 written by Ajayi Crowder who stated that as of 1865 the original Asabans migrated from Benin.

You keep making the same mistake that make people suspect you as not being Edo. You pick and choose which myth or lie you believe, what make an Usen account of the same fallacy more authentic than that of the palace?

You completely ignored the fact that no one mentioned this so called aspect of Benin history for over 400 years of documentations. You and few others operate as if Benin history began in 1939.

The earliest account of Oduduwa is almost 100 years older than 1939 and it started as a myth.

If the Oduduwa story is correct, it would have been almost 800 years old by 1939. So you are saying Usen people remember 800 years unwritten history of Oduduwa that the yoruba themselves couldn't remember.

Did you seen how the tradition that traces Asabans to Benin change between 1865 and early 1900s. A period of less than 50 years. You somehow think human memory can go back as far as 800 years to recount unwritten events. People think you have issues with or against the palace or you are anti Benin or have an agenda but I will like to believe that you are not very well informed.

Edo in this forum have done so much is the past few years to separate fairytales and fabrications from our authentic history.

Sultan Bello was probably one of the first to write about yoruba history around 1820s and by 1826 the first Europeans visited the Alaafin and collected the traditions of the yoruba people. Oduduwa is not mentioned in both early accounts

If you want to be taken seriously, you will have to produce evidence dating back to 1896 that linked Benin with Oduduwa. Benin kingdom was destroyed in 1897. So I am not asking too much.

Life is a continuous learning process. We should be able to change our positions in the face of new facts otherwise we are not better than religious bigot and fanatics. Most of us believe most of the fairytales in Benin history started after the fall of Benin in 1897. If you have a contrary evidence produce it or continue to enjoy your fairytales.

You seem to have a fixed unmovable position otherwise it should have bothered you that no Oba of Benin, no Benin Prince and Princesses had a yoruba name throughout Benin history till 1897.

Anybody can write any nonsense today and future UGBE634 will be quoting and referencing it as the truth.

stop attaching emotions to your write up man, you should learn to take a different position, you write like you are writing to a child, one would have expected you would have gone to burn the Ogi-egor or Ogie-amien palace already. You complained of me not engaging you guys, these are the reasons. You guys cannot argue without attaching emotions to it. it appears that the several communities in yorubaland had their own account of Oduduwa of which Usen technically is one, infact I would opine the both stories has been there-As a human person and as a god as it is there today, some of the chroniclers just chose to write on the divinity of Oduduwa as it appeared in their community.



There is nothing to gain from the Edo Identity, as I have said before it is not up to them. Stop giving values to Non-entities, who are they in Benin, what have they done here to uplift the name of Edo, how many of these people can you go to their post and lift one sensible/educational post on Edo vis a vis other Edo tribal history, on Edo proper, on Edo ancient communities. Stop giving values to Non-entities. Look closely and see, I mean these guys are empty, I have done more than them to uplift the name of Edo here beyond the facade of You are Edo, you are not. It is not what they can now discredit with this useless nonsense. It is not pride. I am not the biggest Edo man here, I have done my bit. Even paul said I am the least of the apostles,yes even I have laboured more than you all


people who think that are low IQ demented fellows, I have done more in this forum to protect the integrity of Bini than them. Also it is not really up to them.

samuk:


Are you aware that early Yoruba writers believed or claimed Oduduwa was a female deity, not even a male human everyone is now claiming? Like I alluded to earlier, the stories have been changing since 1897.

It was Hausa/Fulani Sultan that told the Europeans that the yoruba people were led to Nigeria from the middle east/Saudi Arabia. Oduduwa wasn't mentioned by Sultan Bello as that leader. Like I said before, early Yoruba historians believed Oduduwa was a female deity. Oduduwa story started as a myth.

Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife were not mentioned in the first 400 years of documented Benin history. The Oduduwa story began after 1888. Most Benin people don't take the Oduduwa story seriously, apart from reading it in a book, most ordinary people are not even aware of it outside the of palace. It's not a popular story/history amongst the Benin people.

This was collected in 1939 from local people in Usen, it appears that the several communities in yorubaland had their own account of Oduduwa. The Binis did not start going to school on time, the Usens might not have had access to johnson's work at the time, so they were telling the story as they know it.

Of course we know the Uzama story is not true, but that should give us an inkling on the fact that the Usens and maybe other yoruba communities seem to have had the Oduduwa and Oranmiyan story as an actual person.

Thebadpolitican:



If you're an edo man then you must share something with the yorubas for you to be speaking as one of their slaves....

I refuse to belive you are a full blooded edo man

Prove me and swear you're full blooded benin man and you have no personal intentions towards the glorification of your yoruba brothers

you are not worth going the mile for

Thebadpolitican:



You're a yoruba man

I don't need why you will choose to hide your identity

A yoruba man will not go this length, he has nothing to prove, you on the other swear with your life that I am yoruba and watch yourself die like a fool

You are crying around like a fool that was denied pvssy

You are using this to cover your foolishness of creating different monicker to stalk her

Thebadpolitican:



You're a yoruba man stop claiming edo

I am sorry, it is not an identity I can help or change, I was already Edo before you were born. I am sorry. I am agemates in the set you call Edion in your community. I just hate your sucker attitude that's all

Orhogbua:


Ekalahederan

gregyboy you seem to be a lowlifer who looks for tao's attention everywhere. I mean it's so easy to spot you out, the only person you follow is edeyoung-gregyboy

scholes0:



Yes the current Esogban family, Edebiris.
See, the Esogban title was created by Oba Ewedo as Asogbon. (Source of wise counsel) He is usually a chief adviser of the Oba chosen from a close relative of the Oba himself , related to him by BLOOD.

Okay, here is what I am going to do... I am going to list each name I mentioned and attach the proof f their Ife pedigree.
Oloton, Bamawo, Osa, Osuan, The Oba.... you've agreed.

Attached below are the following: (pic1)
Ojomo and Odofin
Osolo and Oloton
Oliha and Ine
Aro and Elemo

Ehendiwo: (pic2 & 3)

Ogieva, Ihama and Oloton: (pic 4)

There were somethings you wrote that I did not really pay attention to, Chief Robert Osayande Iyamu- the late Esogban of Benin has his root in Orhiowmon, he is in no way related to the Oba, he was from iguododo in Orhiowmon. His family is an autochthonous family. There is no record anywhere that the position is usually given to the blood relatives of the Oba

Edeyoung:


Oga anybody can say anything back it up with historical document

People can claim ownership to the stool of the oba of benin it has been happening before now even in ancient benin kingdom


Oga in a world were there is freedom of speech anything can happen anyone can say shit So because the ijaws said they are the owner of gelege sea port we shouldn't doubt them because they said so

It is called ogie mien king of the seas

And he has no business with the oba stool

Oga you're not a benin man
Tao11 can do better when writing benin than you did

Writing in benin doesn't make you a benin man

You're of the yoruba tribe I dare you to swear with your uborn kids... If truly you're benin

Oga anybody can say anything backing it up with historical fact is what matters

Even the ife you're killing yourself for was made known by a yoruba writer Samuel Johnson

From today on I will follow you bumber to bumber I will make sure I chase you out of culture thread either with truth or otherwise

I have kids not unborn, If I am not a Bini man,let me die before my time, let my children die before my very eyes, let everything I hold dear perish. Are you comfortable now

Thebadpolitican:



You're high on weed bro nothing more nothing less


So are they not human anyone can say anything for their own benefit

Didn't Americans fool the world that they have been to the moon not until people started doubting such claims


You're a yoruba man and I will address you as such

I don't want to know what the esogban or the usen people claim

I want to you to bring evidence and not just mere words

Bring evidence that predate 1897 to backup your claims

Then we can then believes the words of Usen and esogban but if the past is saying otherwise
Then I am sorry you're a clown

You're a yoruba man or you're from usen disguising as a benin man

Soon enough we will expose you


I have said it countless of times why such false narrative in benin history is being circulated

But ugbe who is a yoruba man choose not to see reasons why the palace are circulating it he wants to give glory to his yoruba brothers I will never let that happen

Even samuk disgraced you the last time and you went mute, you have to be booted out of culture thread sooner. you have no value you are adding here
You do no research, neither do you even know benin history oral wise, you're just a yoruba clown

Swear you're not yoruba or related to one you infidel parading as an edo man

pray tell the reason

Ovbiedo-ikhin, ovbi-ugone'iyekorhiowmon


I am not one, I have never been, I will never be, if you will not call the Ogie-amien family yoruba because they believe and hold strongly that the Oba is from Ife, you have no business calling me that, what about the Ogi-egor who holds supremely that his "kingdom" is the maternal home of the present Oba dynasty. If you do not call him a yoruba, you have no business calling me.

What about the Esogban who said he came from Ife alongside with the Oba and some other person's, you know his house in Benin, you've not placed fire on it? The truth is glaring only if we chose to see it

Ogori or Idoma man leave Edo history alone

AutomaticMotors:





That guy is a foool I swear a big foooool !! AreaFada2 boss you see what I am talking about?

https://www.nairaland.com/7537311/history-agbede. how did she get the name Agbede, it is not intelligible in Edo. I am an historian, not a tribal one

duro4chang:
HISTORY OF AGBEDE

Agbede is a Muslim town in the Northern part of Edo State. It has been in existence since the 13th century. It is the door way to the Northern part of the state.

Naming of Agbede

It is said Agbedes were the original makers of the artifacts in Benin before their exodus into the northern part of the political geography called Edo State.

It is also said that the first Agbedes were originally unemes. Another school of thought holds that Agbedes and Unemes were blessed with creativity in approaching arts.

The name Agbede is gotten from Yoruba which means blacksmith. Their naming was the reflection of their occupation. Though, the knowledge of blacksmithing among them is extinct. The Agbede people can be called Agbedes (Anglicization). But, they call themselves in their language, Gbede.

Precolonial Agbede

The Agbede country was the kukuruku (Edo north) administrative headquarters of Benin Empire. In fact, jacob Egharevba in his classics succinctly put it clearly"The headquarter of the colony or province of the old Benin empire in Kukuruku was Agbede."

Agbede was also the administrative headquarters of the Nupe empire in Kukuruku/otoesan. Agbede Ayuele country's king, Oba Abdullahi (successor of Oba Momodu) served as the Head of kukuruku until he handed over to Otaru Momoh and he offered prayers for him. Relationship with empires/kingdom Edit
Agbede established trade, educational and Islamic relationship with the following enviable historical empires;
1. Illorin Emirate

2. Kano Emirate

3. Kogi kingdom (probably igbira)

4. Benin Empire

Source: Wikipedia

Agbede is an Etsako town, if there was no stint of yoruba in Edo, how did she get the name Agbede, these are issues we don't want to address! Agbede cannot be translated in any of the Edo languages, only yoruba literally to mean blacksmith, this also goes to lay to rest the fact that in the distant past, yoruba was also spoken in Benin where the Agbede group migrated from. Automaticmotors, gregyboy

TAO11:
who died at Ughoton?

Ekaladerhan

AutomaticMotors:


How many times does the Oba have to sink it into your skull that the oduduwa the Yorubas are obsessed with was from Benin?

It is proven that he died at Ughoton

AutomaticMotors:


You are becoming very suspect !! I have bern watching you... Your Agenda would unravel soon

Cc AreaFada2

point one thing I have said there that is "suspicious"

Thebadpolitican:



I feel irritated the way you argue to favour the yoruba narrative dem gats open your head to let you know say ife relationship and bini didn't exist

Something tells me you're not a pure benin man you also also related to the yorubas In a way you're so kin to spread this false history


Benin and ife didnt exist prove me otherwise

If you can't then pack yourself out of culture thread

Nawa oo

Some people sha

If not that the Oba is the prime man in Benin, would you bother to argue where he came from gregyboy? Bamawo, the Esogban in time past have all talked about their affinity with Ife, you did not bother to disprove, and they supposedly followed who down?

The Usen people, The Ogiegor, The Ogie-amien can't all be making up tales. For we to get it right with our history, we have to accept truth.

Someone said it he has affinity with Ife, I would now be arguing against it, that's madness

duro4chang:
The summarised history of Ido-ani by Oba Olutoye, Alani of Idoani

Ido-Ani came to being less than a thousand years ago. Some Yoruba from Akokoland at the time migrated to Ido-Ani to settle. History has it that one of the grandchildren of Oduduwa followed Oramiyan to Benin, but Benin was in chaos then. They had an Oba but there was a revolution there and the arrival of Oranmiyan settled the crisis and he was made Oba in Benin. When Oranmiyan became the king in Benin, he married one of the daughters of the previous king, called Ogiso in Benin. The woman gave birth to a male child. Then, it was Yoruba language that they spoke in the palace.

When they told the king that his wife had been delivered of a baby boy while he was playing a game with someone; he was so engrossed in the game that he was saying: Owomika (I have subdued him); that is, subdued the person he was playing the game with. The statement came out at the same time they were giving him the news that he had baby. The messenger thought the Oba was naming the new baby: Owomika, not knowing it was about a game. That was how the boy was named Eweka.

So when the baby grew up, Oranmiyan left Benin and called the place Ile Ibinu (angry land) because people there got angry easily. That is why they called the place Bini. It was coined from – Ile Ibinu. It was after Oranmiyan got back to Ile-Ife that he later moved to Oyo to settle. One of his cousins that followed him to Benin was called Ani. He decided to leave Benin to form his own kingdom. When he got here, he met some people who also spoke Yoruba. When he introduced himself to the people he met here, they started adoring him and made him the king of the place. And they called him Alani of Ido-Ani.

What relationship does Ido-Ani have with Benin today, considering the history?

We have so much history with Benin. The original Ido-Ani was founded along the same line with the old Yoruba. Also, we are a border kingdom. Like I have told you, the first Oba came from Benin towards the end of the 17th century and he was called Ani and he came to Ido. Ido in Yoruba language means where one has founded to reside. He didn’t bother to find a new name for the place, it was just called Ido-Ani, meaning where Ani founded to stay. He came with his brother called Ado. He (Ado) spent six months here before he too went away to search for greener pastures. Some of those who came with Ani from Benin then were able to establish some outposts around here that later formed the six communities of Ido-Ani. We have so much history of wars.

For example, the warlords from Ado-Ekiti, took away some of our people, especially the women. The notion was that our women were very pretty and they were going to be married off to the Ekiti people. That is why you see a great number of Ekiti people saying they are connected to Ido-Ani. We also fought with the Nupe people and so on like that. Much earlier, about 300 years ago, Benin was expanding; it had about three Obas, who were very empire-conscious. The languages of many border towns in Ondo State today, including Ido-Ani, have lots of Benin words.

In Ido-Ani, two enterprising hunters from Sosan (a neighbouring community) had the approval of the Ido-Ani people to settle here with some other people to form a section of Ido-Ani called Iyayu, which is the largest of the six communities that form the expanded Ido-Ani. If Iyayu people speak, most of their words are from Edo language. If an Iyayu man goes to Edo today, within a month, he will be speaking Edo language fluently. So that is our relationship with the Edo people.

It was the daughter of an Ogiegor that he impregnated.

There was no time yoruba was spoken in the palace that Bini was not spoken alongside, the Oba was already half Bini following his maternal root

The right word should be "then yoruba was also spoken in the palace

scholes0:


It is from the Bini language dictionary c.1937 by H. Melzian

oh okay, thank you

scholes0:


Yes Iron is Ematon. Eronmwon is brass. Most of what is called Bronze in classical Africana art is usually some kind of brass alloy.
On your comment about the value of Eronmwon, you are right.. Infact, it was more valued in Benin society than Gold and Silver before this mdoern era.

what about the lead, where did you get that, I have not heard of it, maybe because we don't have everyday use for it, I didn't even know we have a name for it, I would want to know your source

scholes0:



Eronmwon in Edo means Brass. Although it is Ude in the Ife dialect.
However Iron would be Urin.

Lead in Yoruba is Oje. Oze in Edo.

Sunwen sounds like a name that would come from South eastern Yorubaland, Ondo, Ikale, Oluji, Ilaje and co.
It could mean a lot of things since it is a name and not an item . It could even be a priest/worshipper of Uwen. from Sen (venerate) and Uwen (the Iwin deity of parts of Yorubaland)

In Edo Iron is Ematon, that is the general Iron, while a distinct one like the bronze is called Eron-wmon. Eron-wmon ranges from something very precious, someone's child, daughter in this case can be called Eron-wmon. It is because of the uniqueness and appeal of this iron-like object that is why the name Eron-wmon stuck to it. I never knew lead was called Oze in Edo maybe because we don't use it on a regular. Where did you find that

RedboneSmith:


Does Eronmwon have a meaning in Edo?

Also, scholes0, does 'Sunwen' have a meaning in Yoruba?According to one source Oduduwa's brass-Smith was called Sunwen.

(E-)ron-mwon and Sun-wen are similar enough for someone that has a good eye for linguistic relations to suspect that there's cognatic affinity here.

Sir the meaning of Eron-wmon in Benin means bronze

Eron-wmon means an iron-like object appealing to the sight

scholes0:


All the original Ihogbe posts were borne by people from Ife. Infact that is why they are called the Oba's family.
I wasn't making or mixing up anything in my original post at all.

Anyways, you deserve a break, you don try.

I would not know what those do mean though

scholes0:


And all the other families in the initial post?
And the Ihogbe?
Anways .......

some of them are so visible, others may not so be the Ihogbe not all the positions are hereditary, some are by appointment

scholes0:


Left to me, the Usen people are the neutral party between Benin and ife here. Infact, they are the harbingers of the whole Benin-Ife episode.
Anything they say should be held in high regard.

they are not neutral as they are visibly yoruba by ancestry and they seem to have a soft spot for the yorubas. The Uzamas have existed from time before the Oba dynasty. these families according to what we have went to invite oranmiyan

Many of these families, that's why I said you should ask them directly, if they are from Ife, they would be proud to tell you, I know some of these Uzamas families so well. Ife is a noble place, they will only tell you they are not from because they are not from, it is better to hear from the horses mouth

scholes0:


Bros, Igueghae was said to be the first Ineh, and he came from Ife. This is not in doubt.

The oral history is jumbled up most especially with regards to time frame, but there are some consistencies.

I made it for emphasis, Igueghae seems to be a Bini name, that's the point

scholes0:


Awyaw if Oyo, and the account is an allegory. One of the six son's of "Awyaw" is referring to Oranmiyan.

And by several accounts, such as; "The Intelligence report on Benin City by F.H Marshall 1939, Page 3. The four pair of chiefs came with him from Ife

I am sorry these are not true, they had initially gone to invite him, that is why they came with him from Ife, it is part of the bastardization of the Bini history by the Usen people we are talking about.

The period of the Uzamas far predated the period of Oronmiyan in Benin, I would like you to come down to Benin and interview these families before you can be taken seriously

The "families" of the Iyase,Uso, Eson Esama, Esogbanetc are not really families as most are not hereditary

Goodnight

scholes0:


Naah, Oba Oguola actually sent to Ife for a smith to come teach locals.

And that person that was sent for is with the name Igueghae the late Oba opined he was earlier sent there to learn

scholes0:


Infact, the whole art of Igun Eronmwon and Ide (Iron and brass) came from Ife, not just the Ine.

It was not stated in that write up

scholes0:

who is Aywaw and who is his son Bini, what link do they have with Bini, it is not stated there that these men migrated from Ife, the word used there is accompany, these chiefs alongside with chief Oliha as the head went to Ife to invite him, then accompanied him down obviously

scholes0:


can you post examples of some early Benin work in smithing?

yes sure I will do that later, I saw it somewhere, it is a work by professor osagie and Dr ikponmwosa of the university of Benin

The title is :The craft guilds and the sustenance of precolonial Benin Monarchy page 4 by professor Osagie and Dr Ikponmwosa of the department of history university of Benin, Scholes0

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