Edeyoung:


The UGBE634 guy has self hate for the Oba one day he will spill it,


If Ugbe has been saying the truth since one of us here would have seen reason to side with him, but the guy keeps saying rubbish he thinks this is YouTube that's full of his family members and is village people listening to his crap

Ede, I don't have a youtube channel, a youtube channel might be different from a youtube account. I have a youtube account which I use in watching videos right. But I don't have any videos on it, when I watch some of these Esan videos, I usually go to their comment to debunk these things. I seem too old for that now

AreaFada2:


davidnazee, you sef get time o. Somebody who believes that everybody else has low IQ, can he learn from even Einstein?

Let him be.

Low IQ man refer to me with your full chest, I am still waiting for your response since I threw you a challenge.

Any man that will use the word stuck for 'Esan a core Edoid group' when she uses the title Onojie, and the person was rebuked several times and he refused to see his mistake. Sincerely the person has low IQ. It is not an insult sir, it is an observation, I was already tired of showing you error, and wanted to just spill it out anyway that you have low IQ. God faithfully your emotions took over you and I had to let you know your deficiency. Don't be pained man, if you can't take lashing, don't give, I would probably never have mentioned your deficiency level in IQ, even if I had observed it, save for the fact you insulted me first, I am not one to insult someone first.

You probably overlooked his insult to my person and you centred on mine because he seem to be on your side and he is saying what you want to hear.

Davidnazee, there are loopholes in your argument, I don't have much time to respond now but I will do that later eventually

davidnazee:


You are confusing yourself and going haywire..
The issue here is not how Binis regard their Oba, we know how we do, or how to pronounce obavan or Obowie we speak the language very well.
You claim that obavan and obowie means obas afternoon and obas morning which is wrong and your video does not say that.
It is time you stop making a fool of yourself and seek true knowledge from people that knows better..

I said that is what it means literally, your low IQ and comprehension level is working again, where in my statement did I say he said anything of that nature. What I said was I have heard that [b]etymology before[/b]A Bini lecturer told me while I was in school. What I seem to opine was his pronunciation matches up with what the lecturer told me

That's the etymology of those words, you might have learnt something new. I have known this for a while now.

The Oba was associated with everything good.
Hubbard was not joking when he said, "the Oba was not only the civil head of the state. He was also the religious base as well, he was in fact regarded as a divine person who in himself sum up the whole of the race." The Oba was and is still everything to the Binis

Owie morning

Oba-owie- Obowie- translates to Oba's morning - good morning
Oba-avan-Obavan- translates to Oba's afternoon- good afternoon

Oba-Ota-Obota-translates to Oba's evening- good evening

See where he reiterated that bavan,bowie are not the right way to pronounce it in time stamp 6:52

See the way he pronounced Obowie and Obavan in time stamp 6:08 and 6:23 respectively

I said it meant so literally but it can be translated to make sense as good morning,afternoon, or evening, because the Oba was associated with everything good. Go and see the stress in that pronunciation of Oba-avan in time stamp 6:23. Go and ask your elders, they might just interprete what I have told you here. Open your mind, free your Ignorance and learn from your obvious betters

I know it takes time for your brain to digest these things. I understand, your brain must have been torn open as a student in that your dead school , Ambrose Alli, you went to. So you are now deficient in brain matter

davidnazee:


This is why i say you are a confused person.
The video you posted, he didn't say Obowie or obavan means oba's morning or oba's afternoon..
Guy you need to stop making a fool of yourself..

I said that is what it means literally, your low IQ and comprehension level is working again, where in my statement did I say he said anything of that nature. What I said was I have heard that [b]etymology before[/b]A Bini lecturer told me while I was in school. What I seem to opine was his pronunciation matches up with what the lecturer told me

That's the etymology of those words, you might have learnt something new. I have known this for a while now.

The Oba was associated with everything good.
Hubbard was not joking when he said, "the Oba was not only the civil head of the state. He was also the religious base as well, he was in fact regarded as a divine person who in himself sum up the whole of the race." The Oba was and is still everything to the Binis

Owie morning

Oba-owie- Obowie- translates to Oba's morning - good morning
Oba-avan-Obavan- translates to Oba's afternoon- good afternoon

Oba-Ota-Obota-translates to Oba's evening- good evening

See where he reiterated that bavan,bowie are not the right way to pronounce it in time stamp 6:52

See the way he pronounced Obowie and Obavan in time stamp 6:08 and 6:23 respectively.

davidnazee:


I already made it clear what my grandmother said about the word Oba, interpretation and origin..
Every Edo person will interprete the word Oba to mean King and O'ba to mean its shining (light).
You are just confused and stuck somewhere..

Also it is bavan, good afternoon or bowie, good morning.. there is nothing like obas morning or obas afternoon..
O'bavan means its a good afternoon and o'bowie, its a good morning.
Over thinking don cause confusion for your brain..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXp5VS-wWeo

That's the etymology of those words, you might have learnt something new. I have known this for a while now.

The Oba was associated with everything good.
Hubbard was not joking when he said, "the Oba was not only the civil head of the state. He was also the religious base as well, he was in fact regarded as a divine person who in himself sum up the whole of the race." The Oba was and is still everything to the Binis

Owie morning

Oba-owie- Obowie- translates to Oba's morning - good morning
Oba-avan-Obavan- translates to Oba's afternoon- good afternoon

Oba-Ota-Obota-translates to Oba's evening- good evening

See where he reiterated that bavan,bowie are not the right way to pronounce it in time stamp 6:52

See the way he pronounced Obowie and Obavan in time stamp 6:08 and 6:23 respectively.

davidnazee:


When i was a litte kid, i asked my grandmother (she was born in 1920s) if Oba/Benin Monarchy came from Yoruba, her reply was that is nonsense, Oba is Benin and has always been Benin. She doesn't even know the name Oranmiyan..
She did not just make up that answer the she gave me, she got it from stories her pwn grandmother told her..
So you see why I can never believe or agree to the nonsense talk about our Oba and our great monarchy coming from yoruba and non existence Ife.

you should have asked your grandma to interprete the word "Oba" for you.

Oba does not mean king, Oba was like a god who had and still has so much influence over the Bini people.

The Oba was everything to us, you hear names like Obarisiagbon- which means Oba is the centre of the world

Obarisiuwa-Oba is the centre of wealth

It Even reflect in greetings- Oba-avan- which means Oba's afternoon-good afternoon



Oba-Owie-Oba's morning-good morning

The understanding of the Oba was bigger than just a king to the Bini people, that's why he was being compared with almost everything, even though he was the king of Edo people, he was also like a god.

The fact is that as I am arguing, I tend to think more and see more rhema that draws me closer to the fact that the Oba is a non native

AutomaticMotors:
Make i bend if I ever reply that Esan boy again for this thread!!

I have been ignoring your life like a goat, it is just the little attention I gave you now, we are not mates, it is not about been here for 20 years, what have you done here to strengthen the Bini course, not that someone will go to your posts, out of 5000, 4500 are for insulting those that are no longer saying what you want to hear, even if the proofs are obvious. You are empty my brother, go seek rejuvenation and purpose

AreaFada2:

My brother I was replying his posts when I thought maybe AutoM and Samuk slightly misunderstood him. I like to give benefit of the doubt. My first post on this thread began with saying that we should not allow it to degenerate. So that Orhogbua/OP can get the information he seeks. Now I see that AutoM and Samuk didn't misunderstand him.

Over the years, I have heard various arguments about Edo history both online and real life. An Oboro man once told me that Benin moats were for defence against Oboro.

Ogie Oboro that Adesuwa snubbed and had to lure and murder her in the 18th century (over 500 years earlier) here. How can moats started by Oba Ewedo circa 1255 be due to Oboro/Ubuluku?

Ogie Oboro that was a village duke.

I know the agendas influenced by various neighbours.

My point is people should be brave enough to stand on the tribal side they are on. No speaking from both sides of the mouth. It is not in Benin character. I go kpai you means I go kpai you. I go help you means I go help you. Yes means yes, no means no.

That's why I am saying put your word to test, quote any Bini man that has fought that Idea you accused me about more than myself here, infact the challenge I gave you is simple, screenshot one comment that is not mine here that has fought that Idea while I have over 20 in favour of the Binis.

Alas, just one you will not find.

AutomaticMotors:


Boss thanks for pushing him to show his hand out of petty ego, I always knew he would slip up if he gets angry enough ! No man from Benin would say the kind of things he has posted on this thread, so I was 100% sure he wasn't from Benin area, this fact I clocked from the start!! So I have been watching him and waiting for him to slip up which he finally did by admitting to you he is 25% Esan which I believe is a vast understatement, that boy is 100% Esan and it all makes sense now, the way he started acting erratic like a crazed fellow the moment you dived into Onojie/Esan topic Ahhh I started getting a more clear picture and also the way he held to Ogiso era and conveniently threw Obaship to the Yorubas !

My paternal grandma's Identity has never been hidden here, those were post I made on the 21 and 28 of November last year. But I have challenged your god to quote any comments of persons on nairaland who has challenged that Idea here let alone challenge it more than myself. I know I have been here for a short while, but Even yet I know my contributions to this thread as it pertains to such matters

I can say confidently and largely that the Idea that Binis migrated down to Bini has stopped on nairaland because of me.

The seven local government talk I have also never hesitated to challenge too, I found it was out of sheer Ignorance that made those persons come out to say those things. I challenged it with the evidences I have and to a large extent, it has also stopped here, among others.

Some of the fight I have fought for Bini are here,I have been one of if not the most radical Bini here for Bini course. And the fact that you oggled over my post like a goat that saw mango leaves is not in doubt.

If you are so certain I am 💯 Esan, you can swear with your life, and see yourself die like a fool

The fact that no Bini man will challenge the Oba on his Origin, is not true, they might not tell you because of how fanatical you are but they believe it for themselves. They will only tell you if they feel comfortable with you and know you are not a threat

davidnazee:


UGBE634 don run lol..

Not everyone is as jobless as you , I might not respond immediately but I will eventually

AreaFada2:

Ah! We finally got there at the end. You should have said that earlier. Your arguments now make more sense. It would probably make more sense for your to create an Esan history thread to discuss how Benin people and Oba are strangers in Igodomigodo land.

Thanks and goodbye.

The Oba and his family are the strangers alone. I am autochthonous Bini from Ugo, Bini people cannot be strangers in their land, I have always opined that not all Binis migrated down here as opined by Ignorant Esan folks, Aside nairaland, I also have a youtube account where I contest this argument with them. Infact nobody has fought that Idea more than myself here. I challenge you to screenshot comment of anybody that has fought that Idea here

, you can check up my argument with Igboid and Atigba

So it is never about the Esan talk as I am not Esan, infact I have more than enough previous screenshot that contradicts what you opined above

davidnazee:


He was educating you not insulting you. AreaFada is a man of vast knowledge in historical matters and its state of play. You should learn from him, you will be a better person.

I can now agree that your knowledge of evolution of royal traditions, even of Benin history, is not that deep. Or your personal agenda is totally different.


If you truly know Benin history even a little bit, did more reading and research

If you don't see anything wrong with those words, then you are daft.

The respect I give him is because he was one of the first Benin men here, not of knowledge, my argument are there, it is not hidden, it is for posterity and the outside world to judge who is more knowledgeable, who has more IQ, more logic and better spirit of discernment. It is not a thing of pride, it is the truth. There is only one Bini man here, I respect his IQ level, physics

AreaFada2:

My brother, somebody who spews all kinds of things about the palace, who be me?
Abeg pay no heed.

You are a human being, give respect and you will get. Go and check my previous argument with you and see if you will see any insult. I dare you you cannot write to me in that manner and not expect a return of energy

davidnazee:


You have started fighting yourself again this early morning.. well it's a normal thing for aggrieved and self hating people to behave like you are doing now.. kpele oooo

I am not the insulting type, he subtly insulted me in his other post, I had to return the energy. An energy not retuned especially the negative one might affect you. I respected his person here but you cannot write in that manner to me because I respect you, I will not return it, I match energy for energy

AreaFada2:

Ah! We finally got there at the end. You should have said that earlier.

Thanks and bye.

There is no time I hid that, my paternal grandmother is from there. When it comes to Esan history, you are a novice

If there is anyone daft here in history and organization here it is you, how did the many nonsense you wrote relate to what we are talking about

I was trying to establish three points

one of them was this

That Irrua never went beyond a soft power, more like a spiritual head, if you have as much as 2 percent of knowledge of Esan history, you will know this

The second was That the Original meaning of Ojie/Ogie/Ovie was and is still king,

The third one is that you cannot use the word stuck for Esan because she is an Edoid but you can use for Itsekiri, if you don't get this point, then you are showing symptoms of low IQ

AreaFada2:

Dude, you jump from one minutiae to another. I said one among the agendas at GRC in 1480s was designating seniority of Onojies. The remnant persists till today.

Haba! How does it prove level of control or independence? How can we now say everything that it covered when things have evolved since over 500 years?

Good empires were not necessarily control freaks, unless they feared rebellion, couldn't bank on loyalty or otherwise have reasons for tighter control.

Pontius Pilate didn't want to be involved in Jesus' and Pharisees case. He said it was a local religious issue. If Jesus didn't stop residents of Roman Judea from paying their taxes, didn't say he was superior to Caesar on earthly basis or support rebellion, Rome had no interest. He had to be almost forced to act. Not to appear weak to Judean masses. And washed his hands!

I gave an example with faraway Eastern Yorubaland, how some local royal dukes nearer to Benin, like my ancestors, even had more privileges than some of them. Some of those provincial rulers spent childhood as "omada" in Benin to learn Benin culture and administration.

If you truly know Benin history even a little bit, did more reading and research, you will know one well-known Eastern Yoruba prince who was an omada. He later fell out with Benin when he became ruler in his land. If not that Oyinbo documented it, they would deny today that their future ruler served as omada to prepare for his future role as ruler back home.

I can now agree that your knowledge of evolution of royal traditions, even of Benin history, is not that deep. Or your personal agenda is totally different.

I keep writing what I observed growing up, history written in my presence, learning about Eastern Yorubaland, what I learnt through comparing Greek, Roman, Persian and other better documented imperial histories.

If you are not proud of Benin role in maintaining order in the South Eastern part of West Africa, or your other ethnic affiliations make you resent Oba and Benin history, that's fine. But don't conjecture widely.

We know of resentment by some of our neighbours over historical Benin dominance. No biggie. Nature abhors vacuum and Benin Empire always followed that natural law. The pushback today is to be resentful, deny it, minimise it or confusingly, all of the aforementioned.

To say that Iwerre had not evolved their monarchy on their own is wrong. They have added "Olu", though a direct equivalent Yoruboid word for Ogie or Lord, Igininuwa left Benin with younger sons of 65 chiefs to replicate titles of Benin courtiers in Iwerre, today Iwerre have other more Yoruba sounding titles, they have female chiefs, Ologbosere (3rd in miliary hierarchy in ancient Benin) is a more high ranking chief in Warri (even sometimes serving as Prime Minister), etc.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk
Davidnaze

If really you know Esan history, you will know this, I left benefit of doubt for you thinking this was already common knowledge. I am 25 percent Esan and seem to know alot of these people and their history. It seems like you just need to be taught outrightly.

Irrua was not prominent aside her subtle role she was given as head of the Esan people by the Oba of Benin. That role is not what some of them has come to accept, for example, Ewohimi is the oldest town in Esanland and her stool is the oldest in Esanland, on that basis, Ewohimi has never really accepted the seniority of Irrua. Uromi on the other hand, was a military powerhouse throughout history and had a more robust political Organization, on that basis Uromi has never accepted the seniority of Irrua. The position of Irrua as the senior Even as a subtle role has always been contested by these factions. In Esanland today, there are two factions, Okpevbo and Agbazilo. Okpevbo are those communities within Esan west, Esan central, and Igueben. While Agbazilo are those communities within Esan north east and Esan south east

Most communities from Agbazilo believe that they are aborigines or most of their migrations were during the Ogiso dynasty.

While Okpebho are those ones that opine they majorly migrated during Oba Ewuares reign

From Agbazilo, Uromi and Ewohimi did not accept the seniority of Irrua in history and only reluctantly accept today. The role of Irrua was never beyond a subtle role and the only Person they were subject to as a whole was the Oba of Benin.

I never said they have not evolved their own monarchy, I never said anything of such, what I wrote is there for everyone to see. it is like you seem to have a problem with comprehension too. What I said was this, that if they have evolved their own monarchy without the Oba of Benin sending anyone, the king they evolved locally would never have gone with the title Ogiame, because they are a yoruboid group, that is when we can say the title [b]stuck[/b] but the Esans, such cannot be said because that is their only word for king

AreaFada2:


My brother, you are just a bit too hubristic to digest what you read before replying.
You fail to separate history from the present.

How do I care or how is it relevant who today in Esanland is the senior ruler or not?
I just laid down the history and the remnants of it today. I don't want to even be present with breaking kola-nut with any other tribe, if I can avoid it.

Perhaps soon enough Edo North and Central will have their own State and divergence will even be more. Considering how diversity has ruined 9ja, homogeneity is far better. Japan and South Korea prove it. Even if not country yet, let's begin with states that are more homogeneous.

The name stuck because the Grand Royal conference conferred that title. Same as Ogiame stuck with Olu of Warri.

No real evidence that any Esan group left Benin before 1255 when Oba Ewedo's reign began. Oba title was well established already.

Samuk and Automaticmotor

We were discussing chieftaincy titles yesterday. I was very busy, chipping in and out. The around 300 titles Oba has to give out in Benin, our father was given that same rare privilege back in the day. Only a handful of dukes have that full privilege.

As a kid, I saw our father bestow those titles on deserving citizens. Oba Erediauwa as a crown prince was fairly regular back then and knew many of our father's chiefs personally.

When these titles were given out, our local Iyase would educate new chiefs about the history of these titles, how they came about in Benin and privileges and obligations attached. The full traditional observations when given "ivie" by the duke's officials must be done. Like not leaving your house for 7 days. When the palace finally gives the name of the title, it is another 7 days indoors. Of course with all the other processes that follow.

Talking with some custodians in Eastern Yorubaland, I was shocked to learn that our father had more privileges than them in imperial times. They are respected rulers today. For example, my ancestors were not required to bring leopards hunted in their forests/domain to Benin. Those in Eastern Yorubaland had to! However, if our father's servants caught live leopard cubs, the palace in Benin would particularly value it and it was good practice of honour to take the cubs to Beinin.

Keeping hunted leopards to yourself might seem insignificant now, but the arduous journey to Benin on foot through forest roads, whatever the season, was not a joke back then. So it was a big deal.

I grew up hearing stories of relatives who travelled on foot from Edo to Ondo on visits towards end of 19th century, about 1880 to 1900 period. And the adventure of it all.

Anybody can come online, use conjecture but nothing close to reality and just write. That's easy.
I write here because I believe in broadening our horizons and learning.

Even in history, I was trying to point out that the influence was still subtle, it was one of recognition by the Esan kings that Irrua is the most senior and it ends there. I just wanted to point it out so that people will not mistake your senior for subservient role

What you should have opined is that the stool was gifted not the name or title Onojie or Ojie. An Onojie or Ojie title can't stick with Esan, 'a core Edo group', Saying it stuck with them is like saying Oba stuck with the other yoruba towns that received kings from Ife, it is that absurd and weird, I don't know how else to put it. In the sense that, Even if they were to have evolved a monarchy of their own, that is if an Oba was not in Benin that gifted them such stools, those monarchs would still go with the Title Onojie or Ojie. I mean it is who they are, the core fabric of their being. They have no other word for king . That is why I describe the "Oba" as an emperor, the word Oba is not what we have properly domesticated to mean king, given the fact that he was so mighty and his title is not what we can interprete.

If the Itsekiri were to have evolved a monarchy on their own, they would never have gone with the title Ogiame, remember we are talking about the true meaning and intent here. We already have a template in Urhobo and Bini to follow and know that Ojie or Onojie is a cognate word for king, just like Ovie and Ogie. Also we have some template to follow in Benin and Urhobo such that there was already some kings with titles Ogie and Ovie before the emergence of the Oba of Benin that were independent.

AreaFada2:


Efewestern, Ogie meant duke. Ogiegor was always a chief/duke. His position predated Oba period. At no point was he ever called king as ogie.

Ovies didn't start out as kings one day. Their power gradually increased, like it did virtually everywhere else in the world. This is the benefit of comparative history, if you know it.

Again, not all Eoid groups were fully established in diaspora by Oba era. Many Esan people left Benin during Oba Ewuare reign (1440-1473). There was a Grand Royal Conference in Benin in 1480s to anoint Esan enigies/dukes officially. The name Onojie have stuck with them, [/b]the current royal status by law irrespective. Among others on that conference agenda was designation of seniority among Esan dukes. [b]The Onojie of Irrua is the senior Onojie. By tradition, if a Benin man is not present at a gathering, an Irrua man breaks the Kola-nut. The logic is that the Benin man represents the Oba and Irrua man represents Onojie of Irrua. Many Esan people have confirmed this to me over a period of last 30 plus years.

Of late in diaspora, I have seen one occasion when Esan have asked for two bowls of Kola nuts. One for Benin, one for Esan.
We will keep diverging and language will keep losing similarity. My elderly folks called coconut Ekokodia 40 years ago. You won't hear a young Benin person call it Ekokodia today. 50 years from now, just like Okoro, some will claim that Kokodia is only a pure Delta word for coconut.

Post-1914 (restoration of monarchy terms), we are not concerned with whatever title or status rulers outside Edo South are said to or claim to have or gazetted legally as.

Unless you can provide evidence from at least early 1800s that Ovies were kings from day 1, they were chiefs/dukes to begin with. That is why they came to "buy ovieship" from Benin. If they were authoritarian or very powerful, by the standards of transport back then, in their faraway domain and acted like a king, that was their prerogative.

Back then, Oba cared mostly about allegiance, loyalty, continuity and order. Many local issues were devolved to local rulers. including issue of slavery practice.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk

At no point was he ever called by who? When you say someone is a duke, he was under another, who was he under? If

The senior you are talking about here is ceremonial,it is a soft influence, a very weak one, it is just like saying the Others in Esanland are dukes because they respect the Onojie of Irrua. "All of them hold their side o, if Onojie of Irrua do anyhow, them go chook hand for e eye nothing go happen".

The Onojie of Ekpoma is the sovereign of Ekpoma and can preside over issues in Ekpoma 💯 as it pertains to traditional matters or land without seeking the advice of Okaigiesan except he chooses to, same with Uromi, Igueben etc. When it comes to monarchical and traditional power over their domain, they have 💯 sovereignty.

Above all, they are all gazeted, the Onojie of Irrua does not hold any special role in the eyes of the constitution than the others, they are all equal and none is subordinate in the eyes of the constitution aside the senior brother position they see Irrua with which seem to only appear when they gather

Stuck with them how? It is their cognate word for king, bequeathed to them by their Edo ancestor who birthed Bini and Urhobo too

davidnazee:


Another lesson for you:

To "gie" means to direct or lead the way. "Ogie" is the person that leads..
Ogieisoba; this means no ruler (Enogies, okaevbo) is above the king
Oba r'Ogie means King is ruler.

Someone like you will say king and ruler means the same thing not knowing that ruler is descriptive while king is actually a title.
Same logic is behind Ogie and Oba

As for the system of governance before the Obas era not much is known, only that there was Ogisos who ruled all of Igodomigodo. If every part of Igodomigodo was independent like you suggest then each part would have had an Ogiso but from what we know there was only one Ogiso for all of Igodomigodo.
This will suggest that all other parts were not independent and were under the Ogiso.

All those Ogiesoba and Oba'r'Ogie should already tell you the comparison, dichotomy and strife that existed between them before one gave way for the other if you have a functioning brain.

That the Ogi-egor is older than the Oba's stool is not in contention at all. That's why he is also called Osanegor, go and Ask your elders.

Even the enogieship of Urhonigbe is far older than the Oba's dynasty too. It evolved from the Oldest man in the community, infact that is what is still in place.

The Ogisos were never emperors or conquerors, their powers could at best be described as soft or spiritual over other Edo communities and their Enogies. The "Iso" in their title suggest an heavenly mandate. It can at best be described as the sort of influence, the Okaigiesan has over other Esan communities and their Enogies. We were a republican people

Even the Enogie of Egor closest to it was independent.

On the other hand, the Ogie-amien have theirs too, which is "Ogie-amien, Aimien Oba"

Meaning na king them dae see o, dem nor dae see Oba.

Oba is alien, He is not from the land, the word "Oba" is foreign, the way it is pronounced suggest so absolutely

RedboneSmith:


Can I ask you a small question? I was recently speaking with a man from Umoghun n'Okhua, and he said their greeting is Lamogun. I was under the impression that this greeting was exclusive to the Oba's family in Benin.

Are their non-Ọba lineages, especially in Iyekorhionmwon that use Lamogun?

I will get you an answer to your question later

davidnazee:


Your ignorance is appalling.. I'm trying to help you but you refusing any help.

What is the meaning of Ogierioba in Edo language? Or you never heard the saying, "Oba n'Ogie" in Edo language? Do you know what they mean?

Also if Osaro is an enogie, do you say in Edo; Osaro Enogie or Osaro ne' Enogie?
Osaro ne' enogie means Osaro the enogie.

Enogie is one word, splitting it into 2 words is like saying Kingsley is King Sley..

Ogie is a generic word for ruler. Oba (king) of Benin is the Ogie (ruler) of all Edos, enogies are smaller rulers (ogies) in their domains.
If you understand the difference between ruler and king you will probably understand difference between Ogie and Oba.

Ogie as a word seem to have been limited in Use and practice since the Emergence of Oba in Benin, I am talking about the meaning, the true meaning of the word before the Emergence of Obas.

. In this case, it is talking about the fact that the several kings who go by the name Ogie cannot emerge as Oba (as the Oba, a position which was alien to us and whose meaning we cannot decipher, whose influence we feared. whose might we adore, that is why I refered him as emperor, because we cannot call someone king, whose title we cannot dissect that statement is deep, it is trying to show the dichotomy of the word Oba/Ogie and the conflict between them, it is talking about how one is far bigger than the other in Benin traditional practice. How one seem to have been subdued for another, Ogie-irrioba.

Oba'r'Ogie means Oba is king, Oba as a word is not native, when you understand that, you will be good, but I know comprehension is clearly not your forte


Oba as a word is not native, Oba'nOgie means Oba the king, the Binis referring to him as Ogie is referring him as king in the language they understand

Osaro ne' Enogie is used for description, to describe properly the person you are talking about.

For example- Osaro rhio Okhuo ne

Meaning- Osaro has gotten married o

Someone will now ask, De-Osaro no khin?

Someone will now ask-which Osaro

The reply would be- Osaro ne' Enogie oghe Egbean

Meaning- Osaro that is the king Over Egbean
Meaning- Osaro that is the king of Egbean

that is why I keep asking, there were some Enogies in Benin before the Emergence of Obas in Benin who were they under


When you answer that question, your ignorance is cured for life

davidnazee:


Ijesu n' Ogie means Jesus the ruler
Ijesu n' Oba means Jesus the King
Ijesu ne' Enogie means Jesus the duke, however we don't say Ijesu ne' enogie because he is more than a duke. We either say Jesus the ruler(ogie) or Jesus the king(Oba).

like Jesu'noba and Jesu n'Ogie means one and the same thing, just that one is local and the Other is Foreign

Enogie and Ogie means one and the same thing

I wish Bini has grown to the size of yoruba, where it is spoken by non natives, you guys would have seen the height of this boy's foolishness

davidnazee:


If it was a non Benin person arguing like this I will have more tolerance for their ignorance but for you that calls your self Benin, you are outright dumb.
How can Enogie mean "the ruler" yet when refering to the title holder we say "The Enogie" or "an Enogie". Enogie is one word and simply means Duke but a low self esteem man like you will not understand.

You seem to beunrepentantly foolish, the word the is an english word. You only use the when speaking English.

Enogie-the En there is confering the Ogieship on a person.

For instance, you say En[/b]Ogie oghe Egbean.

The word Ogie is king, not confering it on a person
[b]En[/b]ogie-means [b]the king. The en there makes the Enogie, definite confining it to a person.


There was nothing like duke until the Emergence of Obas in Benin. Up until the time of Obas in Benin, who were the Ogies in Benin under, I ask

AreaFada2:


And those created 200 or 250 years ago?

Remember that the status of any ruler has to be officially gazetted in modern times. Is Ogiegor gazetted as a King like Olu of Warri or Delta Ovies? If not what anyone thinks is officially of no value.

Ogiegor is part of Uzama N'ebie or junior Uzama. Junior Uzama is led by Chief Ineh. Ogiamien is a junior member of the junior Uzama too. In case Uzama senior refuse to do their job, the junior will be drafted in. Just like Ihama took over from Isekhure, even though Ihama is father of Isekhure historically to begin with.

is it not because of the politics of Edo south, let me make this clear that Ogie seem to have been reduced to a duke in the Bini practice, because of the fact there is Overarching Monarchy, there is no vacuum in nature, the Oba title that is now accepted as king seem to have suppressed the Original intention, Because, before the coming of the Oba of Benin, they were kings and independent, the emperor role seem to have subdued them to the Position of subordinates in the Bini practice . The Ojies in Esanland are all gazeted, their elites did not allow that stupid politics.

The word Oba in the Bini practice has suppressed the other to a subordinate role, so I see why it is hard for those persons who can't think beyond the surface and seem to be Oba fanatic to accept.

That is why it is totally hard for our brother Edoid tribes to accept a surbodinate role for the Ogie title because they did not experience the Oba and its centralized system of monarchy, whereby the Ogies now play subordinate roles, they only have the word Ovie/Ojie and not Oba.

Enogie is now subdued to mean duke in the Bini practice, because of the Unique system of centralized administration that we now operate which seem to be a sharp contrast of what we operated when these kings were independent before the Emergence of Oba of Benin

I would add that the other Edoid tribes did not borrow the word Ogie which seem to appear as Ojie and Ovie in Esan and Urhobo respectively, still means king. And because they seem not to have experienced a centralized monarchy, , the duke system is certainly alien to them.

Efewestern
Redbonesmith
Scholes0

AreaFada2:


Efewestern, my uncle is greeted locally as "Ogie mwan ghato kpere". My ancestors before that too. The minute the first was appointed duke, as younger princes were back then and even now. The current one happens know Elawure and Enogie of Utese quite well. They are same dukes. The greeting is literally " Long Live our Lord". Ask any Benin person how they greet their local Enogie or Duke. At least, this is simple enough experiment you can conduct.

In the presence of Oba Erediauwa visiting us in 1980 the greetings were: Oba ghato kpere to the Oba and Ogiemwan ghato kpere to our father.

Are you implying that people were greeting our father as an Oba in the presence of Oba Erediauwa?

Haba!

To do conjectures online is one thing, at least what I recommended you to do is easy enough. Very cheap. I can even direct you to as many Enogie palaces as you wish. Just go and observe for a few hours. I will exclude our own so that you don't think it was fixed.

Kings of England were at one point called "King of England, Lord of Ireland and Duke of Normandy". Did it reduce them in any way or proved contradictory? No! Kings, even Pharaohs were regularly called "My Lord" by courtiers. How did it change anything?

There are even more names used to describe or praise Oba and are not seen as contradictory.
Sorry, I don't want to sound condescending but we should endeavour to read very widely to get a wider perspective of things.

Efe, I really expect you to know better than you are arguing.

Samuk
Automaticmotor
UGBE634
Gregyboy

The Oba was not a king but an Emperor,an Emperor whose title cannot be interpreted in Benin these Ogies/Ovies are kings not dukes

Not those titles those Enogies the Oba is creating now, of course those ones are dukes

I would never agree the Ogi-egor or Okaevbo of Urhonigbe is a duke to the Oba of Benin or any of the Urhobo kings or Esan kings, I would rather see it as a king-emperor relationship

Thebadpolitican:



Who do you refer as they to be clear you
Mean the utese


Can't you call a governor or a common counselour government if yes then a royal slave can be called ogie in that context too

Ogie is a generic world like government
Egie likewise is a generic word too

you seem to be waste of space I mean it you are empty, I doubt you are more than 25, I mean the
Enogie of Egor
Enogie of Urhonigbe
And others who were already in existence before the Emergence of Oba in Benin, who were they subservient to, I guess the person you are trying to misinform already knows the right position to take

Thebadpolitican:



Oga go and sit down I will burst your bubbles untill you reveal your agenda


Oga even ogie is a general world for anything royalty it can be used as king for a non benin,
It can be used to refer to as a Duke by the benin depending on the contest

The title is called omo no' oba not oba, it's called omo no oba of benin not oba of benin oba has no meaning without the other prefix attached

Every Duke or royalty can be called ogie regardless of its the Oba of benin or an enogie, Ogie is a generic word for king or royalty

The oba of benin can be refred to as ogie meaning king or a royalty, just like every governor or a president can be referd to as government but governor(enogie) and presidentomo no' oba) are their respective titles

you seem to be a Non-entity without a life, this is where I end my argument with you, you have been dodging my question and feeling like a champion, you are a waste of space obviously

Thebadpolitican:



Another rubbish


Egie meaning group of royals or group of Duke

Enogie : dukes

If you say ogie means king


How would you describe a benin prince to someone in benin language pointing to the fact is of a royal blood

Ogie means king to a non benin, ogie is a general world the benin use to describe royalty be it the person is a prince, a royal servant, a royal slave

Ogie does not just mean king you dummy its a non benin that will call and refer to Ogie as just king you can a Duke(enogie) a king(ogie)


The title of the king of benin has always been omo no' ba ( the child's that shines for the edo people) oba is a short form of the word
To see others stole the words the only called it the short form the Europeans coined it into


Ugbe go and sleep am still waiting for the assignment I gave you earlier today


Is utese close to any yoruba territory if yes you tracing utese to oromiysn history is void

Enogie-means the king, confining the Ogieship to a person
Enigie-Group of kings
Ogie-king but not confining it to any body
Egie-royalty-i have given an explanation to this before
you call a royal slave Ogie even royal servant Ogie, na wa o, e be like you be nupe descendants

Who were they under before the Emergence of Oba in Benin

This was the simple question I asked you, you seem to be dancing around, put a straight answer and see if your position will still stand

Thebadpolitican:



You're not edo and you can things missed up

First thing first surrender to the fact benin owns the word ogie and the other coinage are merely tribal corruption


First you have to note the Oba install enogie, he didn't install kings in delta as Ovie, probably its a corruption of the word enogie that happened over time

Again not all title the Oba gives is related to the word ogie and not all dukes are named enogie even in benin, the title of oba of Lagos giving by the Oba of benin is called eleko of Eko, the title giving by the Oba of benin to the owo king in ondo state is called osemawe of owo,
Naming depended on the particular oba of benin on the throne during the naming. In a general statement all the royalty that is not the Oba himself would be called enogie by the palace, the name oba is only unique to the head just like president

The title oba is a short form it is called omo no oba, the white people shortened it, no elderly one in benin would call the Oba of benin oba without putting omo no' ba [/b]which means ( the child that shines for the edo people) that is the title are not just oba which is a short form

[b]As a race, he is Edo and you are not more Edo than him, his perspective is very welcome

Binis do not own the Word Ogie, it is a cognate word that was gifted to all Edoid tribes by their ancestor, the proto-Edo. I mean these are related tribes, most words they share with us as Edoids groups are cognate

I have asked you there were Ogies in Benin before the advent of the Oba,
who were they subservient to?!!! You will dodge my question, you will quickly come and quote him to misinform him. Ogie is king and not duke




It does not mean that, stop lying, there is no significant stress on the "ba" to suggest so. It is pronounced the same way the yorubas pronounce theirs

scholes0:


According to an Edo website, it means
God creates the Crown (Ede)
https://edoaffairs.com/benin-names-meaning/

If Osamede means what you say it means, what does Omosede mean?

You can interprete it (Osamede) any of those ways it would make absolute sense, it means the same thing with Osemwende

scholes0:
UGBE634

What is the meaning of the Benin name Osamede?

Literally it means my God does not fall. What it can translate to mean to make sense is my God does not fail

samuk:


Just to add, the Benin view the Oba as both the embodiment of divine spiritual being and a physical king. The Oba was seen as God in the physical, the spiritual leader, God on earth only second to Oghene-Osa. There is a saying in Edo that you cannot have two Oba at a time in Benin, hence ogie doesn't quite mean the same thing as Oba to ancient Benin people.

Your example of Ogia-Amen is spot on. People that are not very conversant with Benin may confuse Ogie for Oba.

You people like writing like Edo history or Edo people started out with Oba, who were the Ogies under up till Oba emerged in Benin