musicwriter: You don't have to bother yourself to tell him/her all that. Remember[b] you're talking to a Christian zealot[/b]. Such a person is already deeply hooked on religion and don't read beyond their theology class. Every book I provided are from scholars of repute.
Stay tuned, I'll make more posts later in the day.
PLEASE I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN.stop repeating this, i see as a personal attack on me. i am not a Christian bro. i understand you now
The tittle of the book is "On the historicity of Jesus: Why we might have reason for doubt.
Written by Richard Carrier. He is a well respected scholar and has debated people like William Craig(who only debates scholars ).
thanks for your honesty. i will try to go thru the reviews and if i found it fascinating i will order for it. he is an atheist right?. the book title sound much like a skeptic rather than a confirm or affirm statement like the op.
musicwriter: I don't think I'll be making further post, the one you quoted has derailed the thread. However, I think every info anybody need to free themselves is one the thread. The rest will appear in my upcoming book.
there is different between derailing and exposing. what i did is exposing your ignorance by telling the readers that the websites and book you rely upon is base on pseudo intellectual and can not be trusted. derailing on the other hand is you. you are the one who derails your own thread by talking out of topic. let the readers judge who truly derails between me and you. anyway may be next time you will prepared well.
dalaman: What do you want? He has many books. You can check them out on the website. Are you that lazy?
lol. am doing it for the purpose of everybody on this thread who will be interested. since you claim the man did wrote an established book that counter the existence of Jesus, you should be able to name the book the author wrote. that will be interesting. remember this is a discussion forum not classroom . WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE BOOK.
musicwriter: I opened this thread to inform us we don't have to concern ourselves with the Jesus story anymore. You are the one telling us otherwise.
When European missionaries got to India and wanted to convert the Buddhists and Hindus to Christianity, they replied the Europeans, thus: "Brethren, if you white men murdered the son of the Great Spirit, we Indians have nothing to do with it, and it is none of our affair. If he had come among us, we would not have killed him. We would have treated him well. You must make amends for that crime yourselves."
That's what should be our attitude henceforth, and that's what I am trying to pass here, but you become a problem to our freedom.
it is same thing you just shoot yourself in the foot. i am not on your thread to tell people to accept jesus but to debunk your unfounded claim that he never existed. your claim is cracky like the websites you reccomend
musicwriter: I think you don't understand how we got the education we have now. So, you really believe the education you have now is the type of education you would have had; if we did not have an encounter with Europeans?
If so, you're probably the only person who don't know that upon our encounter with Europeans, we lost everything in education and the language to acquire that education- which is why you and I are locked in using English a foreign language to talk about ourselves and scholarly matters. Let me tell you; you as an African CANNOT publish anything to disprove Jesus, even if it is accurate enough to disprove Jesus. The Jesus story is not your story!. You are a spectator!.
On books, I have provided books and can share with anyone who need those that I have now.
More books disproving Jesus, and general history of religion.
101 Myths of the Bible: How Ancient Scribes Invented Biblical History- GaryGreenberg
Bible myths and their parallel in other religions- T.W Doane
Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth by John G. Jackson 1941 (this is just a pamphlet, and its available)
Ancient Egypt the light of the world- Gerald Massey
bro am done with u. focus on the topic(jesus is not real and muhammed is fake) you are just jumping from one discussion to the other. if you are interested on why africans is backward intellectually. create a thread on it i will honor you and besides stop reading pseudo intellectual books. i do a lot of review before reading and not just because the books speaks my mind. i must say i am disappointed, your thread is not educative at all. no new things to learn
musicwriter: Until you open your eyes and realize the Jesus story is not your story and that the scholarship around it puts you as a spectator, you won't understand the depth of your enslavement.
you just shot yourself in the foot with this statement, then while are you arguing he never existed. is it you own story?
musicwriter: Books that will tell you the origin of religion; some of them as the name implies talks about fake Christ.
Christianity before Christ- John G. Jackson
The Christ Myth- T. W. Doane.
Anacalypsis- Higgins.
The sixteen crucified saviors- Kersey Graves
Bible Myths- Rev. Dr. Richard B. Westbrook.
The Paganism in Our Christianity- Sir Arthur Weigall.
The Evolution of Christianity- L. Gordon Rylands.
A Short History of Christianity- J. M. Robertson.
Pagan and Christian Creeds- Edward Carpenter.
Pagan Christs- Gerald Massey.
Christianity and Mythology- Arthur Drews.
The Book of the Dead- The Hieroglyphic Transcript of the Papyrus of ANI- E. A. Wallis Budge.
i have seen this one in particular i can tell you it is not taken seriously. i will post the review of his work here if you wish. while i will let the audience try to view the rest by themselves
musicwriter: The youtube video I post here are not movies, but documentary. A documentary is a scholarly researched teaching in video. We live in the modern age where video and even audio are being used to disseminate ''scholarly'' works.
The so called education with scholarly proves of Jesus's existence or non-existence were created by the same Europeans to justify their white supremacist view. So you as an African is merely an observer in the worlds's knowledge manufactory. Education is not ours!. Religion is not ours!. Scholarly or non scholarly, as far as this is concerned, you are bound to intellectual servitude that we didn't create, and your insistence on ''scholarly'' proves throws this whole discussion into something else, which is the intellectual slavery- the second branch of our enslavement.
That's by the way.
Again, Celsius, a historian (178 AD) wrote a book titled, the true word, in which he exposed the fraud in Christianity. Rome banned his works, but his work was quoted by Oriegen about Mary's adultery.
Another historian was Porphyry- 234 AD, who wrote book like; the Philosophy from Oracles. I said, this man alone wrote 15 books attacking early Christianity as a fraud. His works were also banned by Rome.
Lucian of Samasota (120 AD) satired early Christianity in his writings, calling them dumb believers. He said Christians worship a ''sophist'' a deceiver.
yes you are right but how reliable it is, is the bone of discussion, i mean the evidence that can be gotten from youtube. if you may want know, YouTube videos cannot provide the content in detail because videos has got it's own limitations. You cannot get into the mind of an author just by watching YouTube videos. If you want a detailed information which an author is trying to convey, then reading books is definitely the best option.
Watching YouTube videos will give you a gist of knowledge, whereas reading books will give you a detailed information of that knowledge which you are trying to acquire. it is better as an educated mind to decend on books while watching youtube video to validate it. that is how it is done in an academic cycle.
with the italic aspect, you must be joking, education is not limited to the Europeans nor white folks alone. we have our educational system in African too. we learn and educate ourselves even before the adventure of the western. not having a formal education system does not mean equate illiteracy. in fact formal education system is a late comer. education start in African right from from homes. scholarly is based on what was done under rigorous research in which does not let Africans alone. instead of you relying on smear internet campaign , you yourself can as well take this approach on your kind self and personally come up with findings that will be both welcome and accept among scholars who also go thru the same method. so it is not for white supremacy as you said.
And to the rest of your point, it is founded on shaky foundation. it does not in anyway disqualified jesus existence but a mere campaign to attack Christianity. WHERE IS IT IN THAT OF BOOK THAT WAS WRITTEN AFTER 200 YEARS THAT STATE JESUS NEVER EXIST.
dalaman: There are true historians that have stated that Jesus did not exist. Many biblical characters are not historical. From Adam down to Moses are not historical. Jesus himself has not been established to be a historical person with objective evidence, Jesus is said to exist as a historical person only based on assumptions.
JUST GIVE ME ONE, PLEASE ENSURE IT IS RELIABLE. I WILL SCRUTINIZE HIS WORK HERE just like i did to the op book. the discussion is about jesus, i care less about adam and moses. that was even around 3 thousand years before jesus.
dalaman: I lean towards the assumption that he existed. Just that there isn't a very clear historical evidence for it as one will like.
it is better to be open in such issues rather than come up with a conclusion that he did not exist. No true historians that have taken time to study the bible sequence in parallel with external information will be bold enough to say he never existed. there are other ways to attack Christianity rather than splitting this unfounded claim. DO YOU NOTICE THE OP IS SILENT ON FAKE MUHAMMED.
dalaman: That's the point. There is no consensus that he existed as a person historically or not. There are only assumptions that he did exist as a historical person.
then we should not be debating it then as if there is factual information that state he did not exist, it does not flawed the available assumptions that state otherwise. unless we just want to be biased like the op.
musicwriter: Again, you keep pretending you're not reading between the lines.
Celsius that I mentioned earlier was a historian who lived early in the first century. He wrote a book; the true word. Its also called the true doctrine. This was the book Oriegen quoted from about what Celsius said about the adultery of Mary.
His books and many other dissenting voices were suppressed by the Roman Catholic church and banned in 448 CE by order of Valentinian III and Theodosius II.
Another early dissenting voice was a man named Porphyry- 234 AD, who wrote book like; the Philosophy from Oracles. This man alone wrote 15 books attacking early Christianity as a fraud. What happened? Rome banned his works and sent them to extinction. I can list more that 10 other authors in the 1800's, but I don't even consider that early enough.
What happened was that, once Rome hijacked Christianity, everything about God or how to know it centered on their opinion. People were killed for reading alternative bibles and that's why people ran into the desert to hide books. Such books were later discovered in caves by unenlightened people like Muhammad, who claimed Allah gave them a book.
You people should wake up and understand the white supremacy that originated the Christian faith. When Rome did not believe in Jesus, they killed those who believed, when Rome believed in Jesus, they killed who don't believe.
To understand this you need to understand the history of the Roman catholic church.
stop showing me youtube videos to portray your evidence , it is non-scholarly. No single academia will take you seriously with this very concept. i only rely on youtube videos if i am to watch past football matches or how to buckle my shoe if possible. let me recommend a suitable academic source for you , use google scholars ,google books or mandalin , a community blog of intellectual to discuss and pass your message. youtube is not an academic reference page. i assume you have known better.
i clearly understand the historical record of roman catholic and besides i am pan africanist ,therefore not brainwashed.
MuttleyLaff: Please clearly express or rephrase what you mean by the above emboldened Are you waving off and dismissing the miracle virgin birth of Jesus Christ?
yes no Single rigorous study to show he was born by a virgin, apart from what the bible stated . so the acceptance that he was born by a virgin is faith based in which i have no issues with.
musicwriter: There were thousands or even millions of JesusES, but as long as you understand there was no Jesus born by a virgin, died and resurrected, walked on water, raised the dead, fed 5,000 people with two fishes, then the bible Jesus is fake.
There's no one else that would save you before any God, but your self. When you actually redeem yourself from the indoctrination of the bible Jesus (a tool that was used to enslave our ancestors) you redeem yourself.
you are not speaking to me. i am not a christian and i am less concerned about what he came to propagate . i am only interested in if he exist or not as a person and which i have not come across a rigorous study that state otherwise.in fact the only counter evidence are modern books which are not taking seriously in an academic cycle. NO SINGLE ANCIENT HISTORIAN CLAIM JESUS NEVER EXISTED.
religious books are written in a way to honor the center figure so do not treat religious book literally like an academic source, it is is faith based not scholarly based position. you can only study the sequence in the write up to adjudge if the book is actually rooted on a reliable source, all miracle documented to honor him might not even be true, but his personality surely exist, available evidence shows. i see him as a philosopher rather than a messiah .
dalaman: " There is no physical or archaeological evidence for Jesus. All sources are documentary, mainly Christian writings, such as the gospels and the purported letters of the apostles. The authenticity and reliability of these sources has been questioned by many scholars, and few events mentioned in the gospels are universally accepted."
Even the wikipedia page you provide could not come up with consensus agreement if he exist or not. and to read m further reply on this wikipedia page, go thru the thread i provide , a moniker by the name winret post the same page. fortunately my response was less biased or influence by christians interest. it is pure academic work. go thru it once again
dalaman: I've been through the thread. You haven't pointed out anything that shows historically that Jesus existed as a true historical figure, only some assumptions here and there.
let those who will not be bias visit the thread and confirm it by themselves. i do not know which kind of evidence you want but i guess a hundred percent evidence. i can tell you, it will not be possible. unless you can create your own reversed timing machine, that will throw you back to the century Jesus was reported to walk Jerusalem. apart from that, i can only provide you an insightful argument that pointed biblical Jesus once existed. And note this time there was no bio metric to capture his finger print nor computer to record his data which will have been used today either in form of birthday certificate or international passport. it was a medieval period. most reliable evidence will have are from those who report about him.
dalaman: Where are the historical evidence that show the Jesus of the bible existed?
go thru this thread below, i pointed out a lot of evidence of biblical Jesus that has been confirm to be real not just by road side historians but from the reputable university source..( Cambridge and Emory) what is yet to be confirm is the miracle and the virgin birth ascribe to him. which i speculate it might not be true. https://www.nairaland.com/4398649/why-should-not-bother-debate.
musicwriter: Below is a list of saviors born by virgin, did great miracles, died and resurrected from death in different parts of the world before Jesus Christ was born.
1 . Krishna of India.
2. Buddha of India.
3. Salivahana of Bermuda.
4. Osiris and Horus, of Egypt.
5. Odin of the Scandinavians.
6. Crite of Chaldea.
7. Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia.
8. Baal and Taut, "the only Begotten of God," of Phenicia.
9. Indra of Thibet.
10. Bali of Afghanistan.
1 1 . Jao of Nepaul.
12. Wittoba of the Bilingonese.
13. Thammuz of Syria.
14. Atys of Phrygia.
15. Xaniolxis of Thrace.
16. Zoar of the Bonzes.
17. Adad of Assyria.
18. Deva Tat, and Sammonocadam of Siam.
19. Alcides of Thebes.
20. Mikado of the Sintoos.
21. Beddru of Japan.
22. Hesus or Eros, and Bremrillah, of the Druids.
23. Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls.
24. Cadmus of Greece.
25. Hil and Feta of the Mandaites.
26. Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico.
27. Universal Monarch of the Sibyls.
28. Ischy of the Island of Formosa.
29. Divine Teacher of Plato.
30. HolyOneofXaca.
31 . Fohi and Tien of China.
32. Adonis, son of the virgin lo of Greece.
33. IxiOn and Quirinus of Rome.
34. Prometheus of Caucasus.
For further information, kindly google these names and make your own research. All of them lived long time before any Jesus was supposedly born.
sure, i also do not accept Jesus was born by virgin as reported. This can be an interpolation in the bible or the fabricated part. but saying the personality Jesus did not exist is flawed as available historical evidence state otherwise.
musicwriter: From beginning I've quoted historians, in fact, in the post you quoted, two of them (Celsus and Lucian of Samasota) didn't believe in the Jesus myth.
1). "convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Pantera"............ Celsus.
Celsus here is saying that there was no Jesus of virgin birth. Celsus said Mary the mother of the supposed messiah was ''convicted of adultery''. So, he clearly did not believe in miraculous Jesus myth.
2). ''he was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine whom they crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world. Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despite death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek Gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.'' ............. Lucian of Samasota.
Lucian of Samasota was a comedian, and in the quote above he was poking fun at the stupidity of Christians who were martyring themselves in those early days of Christianity. He certainly did not believe in the Jesus myth, but was making fun of it. Historians say suicide was so high in those days in the name of Jesus so much that there was a decree to reprimand families if someone should kill himself among them.
I am not interested in Paul era, that's not what I opened this thread for. The Jesus myth already evolved by the time Paul picked it up. Anybody could be a victim from then on, which is why you are now. How to save you becomes a problem because once indoctrinated, the mind acts like a wall rejecting new information.
I can provide you books and audio books to save yourself. Satan has deceived the world to worship him and his name is Jesus.
first of all, the book written by Kenneth Humphreys which the websites you provide derived his reference is base on staggering leg, the author is not a historian,he claim. it is like a motor mechanic writing a book on how orthopedic doctor should attempt to treat a broken leg, it will be a time bomb. if not instant disaster . it is difficult to find out much about Mr Humphreys educational background –in his debate. with garry hubbemas, you can dig up the video online in which he lose by a clear margin. This is what his side provided for a curriculum vitae:
“Some people want to know where I’m coming from: I’m an ex-college lecturer, ex-photographer, ex-computer salesman – but not an ex-Christian, Jew, Moslem or Nazi! I had a religion-free childhood and from the youngest age acquired an interest in history. In turns I was both fascinated and appalled by the history of the ‘Christian Faith’ and have made its legacy and crimes a life-long study, not because – as Christian apologists often imagine, I was ever ‘hurt’, abused, or rejected by the Church or Christians – but because humanity’s fate has for so long been held captive by this pernicious creed. But all religion is inherently dangerous.”
Another title in their distinguished religion series book is called “Did Jesus Really Have Holes in His Hands,” which can be yours for only 7 quid. As they say, “Are you up the rigours of intellectual challenge and the judgement of your peers? If so, the Historical Review Press is for you. Contact us today via the contact page on this site.” Reading the list of their “hard to find books” (with a smattering of reprints of others thrown in the measure) it felt very much like visiting a porn site. Not that I would know. To the extent that mythtics defends work like this by creeps like this, their microminority opinion will stay in the lower cellar with the rotting. this is enough not to wonder why kenneth book can not be consider or taking seriously in an academic cycle. it is founded on a staggering foundation. it lack merit and scholarly approach.
mind you , i am not a christian nor a Jesus ass licker, i am just a student who loves learning and prefer to uphold on the truth even if it disagree with what i want.so do not roped me with this Satan and jesus poo .
provide me some scholarly reported books that can stand rigorous academic challenge and not some bias or pseudo intellectual literature. I will be glad you did .
HappyPagan: Hey black man, yeah you, you with the dark skin... come, come over here.
Can I cut your head off, and see what you hide in your head. Don't worry, it'll be painless, I just want to check what thoughts reside in your cranium.
Nice soft neck you got there... **swish** phew, told you that it'd be painless. And the good news is you're still alive... See, you are not your body, just a mind, a. temporary captive in a decaying body.
Anyways, we are not here to talk biology, but psychology. I want to know how you think, what you think of, what you store in this wonderful brain of yours
musicwriter: Are there any written historical evidence to support Jesus Christ's existence? The answer will surprise you.
I have checked the history books, and everything you believed in Jesus is based on the below passing quotes made by ''Roman authors'' or someone who just made a passing comment.
1). "convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Pantera"............ Celsus.
2). ''consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus.''............... Cornelius Tacitus.
3). ''he was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine whom they crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world. Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despite death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek Gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.'' ............. Lucian of Samasota.
4). ''as the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome.''.......... Suetonius.
5a). ''Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works- a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the gentiles. He was Christ and when Pilate at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.'' .............. Flavius Josephus.
5b). ''Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others.''............ Flavius Josephus.
Your whole faith in Jesus as the savior is based on the above quotes. The above is all there is outside of the bible, all men stated above began writing many years after the Jesus myth as the savior of the world has been established by Rome.
Here is the bad news. Some of the above quotes has been discredited as forgery, a joke, or just a passing comment that could have been referring to any other messiahs out of hundreds of messiahs. Let me make it clearer below about what historians said about the above quotes.
1). An author named Origen (184 AD- 253 AD), an accomplished writer, in one of his writings, quoted another Greeco-Roman author named Celsus, who said that Mary was "convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Pantera".
Tiberius Pantera may have been serving as a Roman soldier in the region of Palestine at the time of Jesus's supposed conception. Both the ancient Talmud and medieval Jewish writings and sayings reinforced this notion, referring to Jesus as "Yeshu ben Pantera" (Jesus son of Pantera).
In this quote, you can see clearly that people knew that Mary got pregnant by sleeping with a Roman soldier. The same way Nigerian soldiers posted in Liberia and all the other conflict zones in the past, got people pregnant over there. The early people living in Palestine knew how Mary got pregnant by infidelity.
2). Roman historian, Cornelius Tacitus (117 AD), mentioned ''Christus'' in one of his writings when he said ''consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus.''
As I have said in previous posts, ''Christus'' was the name for anybody who came forward as leader of the Jewish/Israeli movement against Rome. All the people who came forward to free their people were called ''messiah'', ''savior'', redeemer''. Hundreds of such ''Christuses'' were killed by Rome. He could have been talking about any of them.
3). Another author, Lucian of Samasota (120 AD- 192 AD), who was a Greek comedian, while satirizing the situation at that time, wrote, ''he was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine whom they crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world. Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despite death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek Gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.''
4). A Roman historian, Suetonius (70 AD- 126 AD), wrote ''as the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome.’’
5). A Jewish playwright, Flavius Josephus (37 AD-100 AD), wrote ''Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works- a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the gentiles. He was Christ and when Pilate at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.''
Another quote credited to Flavius Josephus, reads ''Festius was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others.''
You can see clearly that this quote is an over ambitious quote to make a point about Jesus being God. Flavius Josephus was a Jew and a sell-out to Rome, who joined foreigners to enslave his people. His name was formerly Josephus, but a Roman emperor adopted him into the Roman elite and added ''Flavius'' to his name. Flavius is a name of a Roman dynasty. Historians have long discredited above quote as a forgery and he is suspected to be the writer of the new testament part of the bible.
To be continued..........................
Reference your point with authentic academic source and not some false historical concept from unreliable websites that are meant for internet smear campaign. Jewish antiquity by Josephus was agree to be less fabricated in majority ,at least scholars agree. provide your references and lets put it into scrutiny. the relevance input of Josephus writing was not about if Jesus is god, it is about if he document Jesus in writing or not. so stop attacking his personality, criticize his witting instead. what you are doing is called dishonesty in academic cycle, we do not attack the author in person but his work. and furthermore Josephus was not only the Roman historian that wrote about him as you stated above. senator Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate, and the existence of early Christians in Rome, ca. AD 116. All these are mentioned in the new testament. brings evidence to discredit all this non biblical passage that reference biblical Jesus.
No scholars of ancient time disagree about Jesus existence, provide one and let us take you seriously? checking from other part of your quote where you talk about the christ that was taken during claudius time , the report is taken from the biography of the Emperor Claudius himself , it refers to the agitations in the Roman Jewish community and the expulsion of Jews from Rome by Claudius the emperor during his reign (AD 41 to AD 54), likely the expulsion too is mentioned in Bible Gateway passage: Acts 18:2. In this context "Chresto" is mentioned, likely a reference to Jesus. though you may suggest another christo, but the way it is in parallel with bible passage make it a solid evidence. for you to say NO, you must provide evidence that the gospel of act was generally fabricated without any iota of truth.
i notice you are keeping mute about muhammed nonexistence?
musicwriter: 1. Search Google for "the lost history. who stole black history" follow the lead at africason.com and read the article about the identify of the real Jews.
2. Josephus was a sell-out working against his own people under Roman occupation. He was so against his people that he adopted FLAVIAN, which is a Roman name. Historians have long discredited his mention of a "Messiah" as a forgery.
I am on the way. I will get to all that later.
Jewish Antiquities contains only a partial interpolation as said by historians and scholars. and they unanimously view Jewish Antiquities as fully authentic. Furthermore, the bible according to Paul, even did not view Jesus as a “heavenly being”, Paul illustrate Jesus as a human descendant of the human King David (Romans 1:3), Paul also confirm that Jesus had a human brother (Galatians 1:19, 1 Corinthians 9:5),in addition Paul says Jesus was actually buried (1 Corinthians 15:4), and so much more. and likewise from another Jewish historian pliny the eiders. it seems you are silent about muhamed existence?
musicwriter: I used to make those arguments in the past in defence of Jesus until I did my research, and discovered they was no Jesus.
However, I've not began Jesus yet, I'll get to that. Once you understand how he was created and why, you'll understand he never existed.
Before you go ahead with your postulation, ensure you also destroy Josephus evidence alongside. hope you read about Josephus’s works?, if no, it include a much less-famous passage that’s definitely genuine. Buried deep in Book 20 of his Antiquities of the Jews and is a passing reference to the execution of “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James”. That’s as far as it goes. But it confirms the historical existence of James and therefore Jesus.
let me tell you about Josephus,he was a Jew who did not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God or Christianity. In The Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 . This is what the famous historian Flavius Josephus writes:
“Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross..." ensure you debunk this evidence as well, then i can take you seriously.
musicwriter: There's no longer anything to believe. What I need is proof.
Mark, John, Matthew, Luke, These are not Middle Eastern names! They are European names. Mark, John, Matthew, Luke, etc, could NEVER have been a Jewish name!. Go to Palestine where Jesus was said to have lived, and find out how their names look like.
These names were assigned by Rome as characters in the book they were writing, now called the Bible. They could have called them anything, like, Rat, Goat, Dog, Chicken.
The only phenomenon where prove exist is in mathematics, which means there will not be any element of errors, even in science what we have is evidence. scientifically we do not prove but provide evidence. there are evidence Jesus existed and likewise his disciples . and no counter rebuttal is yet solid enough to debunk this evidence. I AM YET TO SEE ONE
Christianity Etc › Re: How I Discovered Jesus Christ Is Fake. Muhammad Too by vaxx: 1:44pm On May 12, 2018
