₦airaland Forum

more contribution , do not be scared, lets talk about it. it is unavoidable

[quote author=GodFreyinNORSE post=66714839]

Before we get started, can you explain to us what you mean by GOD? That word is ambiguous which mean different things to different people. In some cultures, something or someone can grow into what we call 'god' or gain divinity status. While also, some things just take upon the title 'god' for a reason best know to adherents. So God is just a title, tag or height. This brought us to another question....what makes god a god? To address your question, God does exist but it depends on what you call God. To some people, it is a river, rock, tree, energy or even human. Commonsense tells us that these things exist but the question if they are God or not is another thing.

lets assume for the purpose of this topic and to averagely speaks the minds of the believer , GOD is referred to as coping mechanism, in neurological science, their are three element of threat that will perceived- Freeze, flight and fight. In a similar way, to cope up with the foray of uncertainties around you God is a coping mechanism. the belief that if you jump and fall off the cliff, there is a cushioning out there somewhere. using football for instance , players do better when there is a mentor or a coach around them. He doesn’t have to be in the match, he just has to be around them. And you know all players do not keep starring at the coach all the time, but if they know he is watching them, they have a psychological advantage. This is precisely the reason why people need places of worship,temple or any images of their deities along with them. it symbolized that he is watching over them.

From observation, most people tend to view God as ultimate creator of the universe. To some extent, without been sentimental, the creator of the universe exist. We may not accept some of the Gods' concepts but beyond every expression, imagination, abstraction and reasoning, there exist a creator God which I call 'The Cause'.

fair enough, but i am looking at it in another angle ''uncertainty'' it is a common phenomenon of humanity and it is this beliefs that have pushed us ahead. well, Atheism will likely continue as the uncertainty in human condition keeps reducing each day with advancement of science. and in someway it will validate the existence of the ''cause'' to some people. However to some who will be concluding that there is no GOD because science explain lot of the missing dots, it should be noted that there will always be things that science cannot explain and uncertainty will prevail in those areas, giving rise to the coping mechanism called belief in a higher power or THE CAUSE as you put it.

From a logical stance, nothing just happen without a trigger, without a cause, and without a push. The cause might not necessarily be intelligent or serve an purpose. However, there is always a cause which some people call God.

in fact the concept of nothingness is just a too much fallacy, “our universe can never appeared from nothing” The postulation simple disagree with simple logical equation. lets check it.

1.”Nothingness + deterministic causality = non existence”

2. But “I = exist”.

So something is wrong in this set of postulation . If the first conjecture is false, then either nothingness is able to create existence, or causality is able to create it, or existence is not existence.

Let's take it from big bang. The explosion from the minute tiny dot didn't happen. The dot didn't just magically appear. Something would cause the explosion to happen. That thing is God, the creator God.

but the atheist may use this argument against you, they may simply ask you then what caused the something, then we will arrive at infinite regress of explanation. but to settle this any theory that explain every things explain nothing. that is not the purpose of science.

That cause if you bring it down to Yoruba spirituality is called Eledumare. I have tried to make this argument with my other moniker but it seems people do not really understand it too well. In Yoruba spirituality, there is little known about Eledumare. He/It does not have form, no human nature, and doesn't interfare with the world. What we know, certainly, is that He/It is the source of all things; norm and orderliness, law and nature as we generally understand. And the Orishas are the manifestation of Eledumare.

i do not agree with this, but for purpose of this thread , lets live it till another day. orunmila was able to see the bottocks of olodumare, though, i am of the opinion it is not what we can literary explained. since the odu ifa that report the evidence was conveying a philosophical passage. while the Christians says Moses was able to see the shadow of yhwh and the Muslim were of the faith that the faithful will be able to see Allah in Janna, in fact the consider it as the greatest reward for being a Muslim on earth.

Muafrika2:
I see

Nigeria has not really gotten to that stage though

budaatum:
But it is respected. Do I have to pay for it too!?

Funny though, we were talking about it this afternoon. A friend of ours died and had asked that his ashes be scattered on a mountain in Scotland. After the family liquidated and shared everything he left behind, they buggered off back to Canada and left his ashes for us his friends to do as we wished. They hardly visited him while he lived and cared not after he died!

Not necessary, but you can help her plan it . financially she can start contributing toward it from now on. hopefully you will do as your fiend wishes.

budaatum:
Do you know how much it costs to ship a dead body from UK to Nigeria? It's not that I don't have the money though. We come from a family that gives to help others. Can you imagine how much school fees I can use that money to pay for? I tell you, her sentiments about her dead body amuses me. She never brought her children up to be so inconsiderately wasteful.

i understand you bro. i only wish her decision can be respected.

Muafrika2:
True,

Especially the right to sleep undisturbed. But that does not happen in modern days.

Speaking of which, I wonder how those scientific institutions dispose off the bodies and their parts once they are done. The obviously can't do burials

in most cases they are later redirect to museum or at advance level, they are used for what is called bio engineered, for example, bio artificial kidneys that are grown from renal cell lines/renal tissue. or the latest that is currently being researched upon, using skin cell to create embryo, we may soon have artificial baby if it is successful. and so many others interesting research that can add growth to humanity.

Muafrika2:
Good point

i believed the dead also have a right

budaatum:
Hmm. I can't make that decision for others o. Some might prefer their remains to be fed to termites. My ma, for instance, wants her remains flown to her hometown, the Orolu Kingdon, as she doesn't want her dead body buried in the cold in London feeding termites. I've told her she better leave enough money for it as I refuse to waste mine.

And my dad, who lived in the Orolu Kingdom wanted to be cremated, but I told him people might say, "buda could not afford to buy cow to bury his father so he cooked his father's dead body and called people to come and eat!". We buried him.

hilarious, but you can open a saving account on your mom interest, there is a system here , where you pay a token monthly and when you die, the company finance the general burial if you do not like the church type.

Muafrika2:
Not that way though. I don't think my people would even hear it. Its not acceptable. They are people who remove bodies from caskets and examine it to ensure all parts are there. I don't think they'll let me even want the cremation as I would prefer

you may write a will to effect your choice. an attorney will defend you even in your death. so your people cannot rule over your remains unless you do not prepared for it.

Muafrika2:
Remains for practicals

I will haunt anyone who cuts me or takes any part of my body.

lol, are you not interested in enhancing scientific development thru research? this is one of the way you can contribute

Muafrika2:
Cremation is the best. I can't risk my bones being scattered all over the place 20 years after am buried because someone sold the land together with my grave to unknown rascals

what about organ donation? someone might be in need of it. even our educational institute will be glad to have your remains for practicals.

budaatum:
I carry a donor card and have done for decades. They are proposing to cancel them where I live and introduce an opt out system instead. If you don't want your bits donated, you have to opt out or you automatically are harvested for whatever is useful after one dies.

While providing food for termites, which themselves serve a very important purpose in their own right, may be a worthy end use of my remains, I am of the opinion that my liver, kidney, heart, eyes and every other bit of me that a use can be found for, would be better utilised in prolonging someone else's life than food for termites. It might help give life to someone else.

interesting, and i am also glad to know you are a donor card carrier. people actually do not have reasons not to donate only excuses. after all the body will be destroy at the long run in the ground, so is it not better to make it useful for the living?

nowpresence:
I just love how still and peaceful a tree is. When the wind is blowing, movement of the tree, birds coming to preach on it, it's beautiful.
the tree can also be a symbol of me when I have left this world just like in the case of a tomb.

i see, i understand that though. but it is your remains, it does not give a dammn if the tree leaves breezes or the bird sings

nowpresence:
I will love to be cremated and buried under a tree.

whaoo, i missed your comment. why under a tree, that sound very strange, and why not buried the whole remains at once or donate your entire remains to science development.

Dalamama:
I'll prefer that my useful organs be donated for research or to those that might need them. The rest can be buried or cremated.

insightful and simple.

kevoh:
In 9ja?

No , GERMANY

kevoh:
1. Yes, they do. Didn't have to make it graphic though with the 'dead burnt human flesh' cremation sounds way better na.

2. It is basically compressing carbon into diamonds. If they can get the required carbon content from the burnt dog/pig then why not.

3. I will answer this question in reverse. You can pay as high as $16000 for the service. The higher the amount the more the quality of the diamond.

ii saw a TV advertisement of it .

budaatum:
I'll have me some of that too please.

hi budaa, so you are going to follow suit. what about submitting the total remains of you underground so as to nourished and served as fertilizer to the soil. your remains too can also benefit humanity thru agriculture or a good delicacy for termites and the rest.

Butterflyleo:
As you rightly noted, it is now my remains. It is what is left of the real me. Its now a waste product so I honestly wouldn't want anyone to go through such a hassle over my "remains". If I were to live a will, I would do so for the living and over what I left for them and not what they choose to do with my " remains". Afterall even if they invite Kirk Franklin to come and sing at my funeral I would no longer respond to him nor appreciate what he came to do since I am now dead and unresponsive. In fact I would be singing and rejoicing in another place and focused on that.

Why should I pay an insurance company for my remains when I can pay them for those I would leave behind who would still be alive when I go?

i love this

kevoh:
Well if at the point of death there is someone on a waiting list that truly needs it/them to be saved, why not! It's not the full remains that is needed when converting ashes to diamond anyway.

As for the University labs, I don't think I will be willing to. Yet to reconcile with the fact that young students/scientists will be probing and exposing my body parts. My mind never mature reach that side wey I go think am.

lol, why are you scared? it is just your left over anyway.

Butterflyleo:
Vaxx personally I do not care what happens to my body after I die. Afterall its now in the hands of others and not under my control or directions (if I never even left one). However, even if I did leave instructions and they choose to do otherwise I still wouldn't care because I am no longer in that shell body.

Cremate it, rip every limb and organ out for donation to another who is living, bury it whole, I have no issues with that. All I desire is that even at death, let my life be an exemplary one for the living because we all have a destination whether we agree or not.

Peace.

insightful comment, but you have an option bro. your writing will can speak for you. if your family member decide to treat your remain otherwise, you can even plan your burial in whatever form your like. and hand it over to an insurance company to execute when you are no more. therefore your wish can still be honored when you die. so at this junction what will you prefer?

hopefulLandlord:
Yeah, I think its more due to superstition, they believe they'll die faster if they talk about things like these and their avoiding such topics is in their best interest

This has serious disadvantages as most don't write their wills out of such belief too as they think only someone with a terminal illness or near death should be writing wills. So when they eventually die there are certain properties they own that their family is unaware of due to their not writing will and such properties are lost to Omo Onile

Even the properties they really own and their family is aware of also cause a lot of problems as their not leaving a will leads to infighting for who to take over and at what share which can lead to their children killing themselves for properties. That's if extended family members don't take over everything and throw the wife and children into the street

only few Africans write wills. even among the educated ones. religion like Islam has a standard sharing formula for the deceased that is documented in the quran. other Nigerians just follow the instruction of the family head which often cause wahala, even death in some cases. but whatever it is , wills writing practiced should be encouraged unless the person is a Muslim who already subscribe to the standard of the quran and it is agreed upon by the family.

kevoh:
I will prefer the type where my remains are cremated and then turned into a beautiful precious diamond which my family can keep. There are some companies offering such services at about $3000 I think.

interesting, i heard of it before. but what of your useful organs like tissue and other transplantable ones, will you like to cremate them too, when you can save a living with it. while you donate the rest of the remain to university lab for continuous research rather than just turning it into an ornament.

FeelDeMusic:
No, it's cool! Don't get me wrong. But I'd rather just be barried normally as I don't see myself donating anything of mine to science.

i respect your choice and decision.

hopefulLandlord:
I notice no Abrahamic religion adherents have attended to the thread, they simply look and exit the thread haha

Superstitious set of homos, they think entertaining this thread would make death come faster to them than it should

if anyone doubts me, when in midst of conc Christians bring up this kind of topic and they'll feel uncomfortable and either try to change the topic or straight up tell you never to bring up such topics

lol. so people are scared to die. meanwhile the only ticket to heaven is death. lol

FeelDeMusic:
I am completely against cremation--I don't know why, it just seems destructive in my eyes. Yes the body is dead and can't be used except for donation and things, but I wouldn't want that. I'd rather just be barried normally.

i agree with you to some extent on cremation. but being buried in the old traditional way is a little bit greedy to me. what if you donate your organ and save a living ,the transplanted part of you still live while the remain is buried. is that not awesome

hopefulLandlord:
I haven't considered it but (without giving it much thoughts) No! pictures are enough however I'm still pretty young so there's a chance my preferences would change with time and certain experience(s)

cool, well, going by age, l will also says am young, but since age is not a determinant factor of death, it is better we plan our death alongside our dreams since it can come at any moment of our age.

hopefulLandlord:
TBH I wasn't aware there are different types but anyone is fine by me so long I'll turn ashes

Good,do you consider living a landmark of your remain for your grand children that will serve as an historical sight?

hopefulLandlord:
Organ donation to help those that need it or for medical research purpose

Cremation cuz I don't like the traditional burial methods in which people would gather round and weep over my dead body while its lowered to the ground. I prefer being turned to ashes and emptied into the closest ocean or sea

interesting. which Cremating method will you suggest? the open fire method , the gas power or electrifying ?

hopefulLandlord:
Why not two at the same time mr Vaxx?

I donate my vital organs after death and the other "remains" are cremated

whaooooo, what are your reasons ?

I will like to have your views on these major burial practiced, wish one will you prefer?. on what moral ground, environment issues or economic implication can you solidify your reasons for the type of method you assume should be the most preferred choice . below are summary of how this method are carried out.

CREMATION

It is the combustion, vaporization and oxidation of cadavers to basic chemical compounds, such as gases, ashes and mineral fragments retaining the appearance of dry bone. this is use as an alternative to place the dead body in a coffin or casket. though the ashes remains of the dead victim which do not constitute a health risk, may be buried or interred in memorial sites or cemeteries, or they may be retained by relatives and dispersed in various ways. some family too keep it a bottle with the photograph of the victim, it is as an alternative in place of burial or other forms of disposal in funeral practices.

In many countries, cremation is usually done in a crematorium. Some countries, such as India and Nepal, prefer different methods, such as open-fire on the dead victim. No western countries use open fire but they use gas power or electrifying method.

i attached a video of cremation below, please it might not be pleasant to the eyes if you do not have the gut to watch it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJTclbBKxKk



ORGAN DONATION

Organ donation is when a person allows an organ of theirs to be removed, legally, either by consent while the donor is alive or after death with the assent of the next of kin. in this case, lets assume its after death. some says they will donate their entire body to science for the purpose of research and growth . others simply says they will donate the transplantable organ and tissue of their body to those who might be of need and while the rest should be discard in whatever form the family chooses. the process can only be perform by professionals.


full blown body burial
this does not need much introduction. as it is the most common method we are all familiar with, it is normal process of putting the dead body in a coffin and submit it to mother earth. the whole body is buried alongside the casket.



NOTE. some of the definitions used are copy from wikipedia. i await your insightful contribution.

This is touching, but not all inactive member had pass away. some just left due to different circumstances . but to the real dead victim, may their soul rest in peace.