₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
You are free to believe what you wish to believe. We are talking about the entire area known today as Nigeria, and is it not being suggested that we had nothing before colonisation, but that at the time of the clash, there were many ways in which the west was far ahead of us, and are still way ahead of us today.

One thing to consider is that no underdeveloped nation has ever conquered a more developed one. The fact remains that they sent a small number of people to our land and were able to over run us and impose their ways on us, which indeed includes rewriting our history, and which alone shows how mightier than us they must have been. If we were able, we would have kicked them out, but we didn't, eventually couldn't, and can't now. Wake up early enough on Sunday and watch people go to worship at the temples built to honour the gods they imposed on us!

As to the way forward, Nigeria is a sovereign country ruled by Nigerians, and it is rather disingenuous to keep claiming the west is responsible for how we are today, as we have had enough time to take our destiny into our own hands despite the fact that western influence is woven into our current ideological dna. We live in an interconnected world and just have to make the most of it as quite a lot of other nations that were colonised have done.

it is not about believing in whatever i want to believe, it is about where is the evidence? look out for lious gates document on African empire. there was no evidence to suggest that the west were far ahead of us, in fact it is the opposite . life was better not only in the current area known as Nigeria today but other part of Africa before the industrial revolution in Europe, so much less organization was required in our part of world than northern Europe. well, we ma suffered a bit but not as being as barbaric as other cultures at that time! we were simply not used to the malignant cultures they were exposed to starting in the middle ages. One reason it seems Africa we have no history is that before the slave trade started to destabilize our continent, we are not expose to the same degree of huge wars, maniac rulers, religions persecution and other stuff that make European history so fun to read. And even though Africa had slavery, slavery in African societies was not by far as bad as slavery in the arab world or America. It was more akin to serfdom in several ways.


Greek war lord, Alexandra the great conquer Persian empire that were more wealth and prosperous than them, so it not true that no underdeveloped can conquered more developed one and likewise Egypt was also conquer despite their known development by the same Alexandra. read much about Kush, Axum, the Mali Kingdom, Ghana empire. not today Ghana. All of these civilizations were in Africa. The political system, buildings,organised society, market, trading etc... were present in Africa thousands of years before Europe rose at times when Europeans were living in caves…. It's an historical fact. the power of guns and violence brings us down just like how the Romans/west were once defeated by the arab/Muslim during the crusader war. we were used against ourselves, for instance the ashanti empire headed once defeated the British army, with the assistance of a woman known as nana asentewa, when the golden stool wanted to be taken, the British retreat and equipped am from Yoruba tribe and Hausa then to fight the ashantis. though the succeed but could not go away with the stool. the Zulu people of south Africa once also conquer them and likewise the bini kingdom. now our people is we are not original anymore . but imitators. we are not them and the are not us, we have different background with different focus. we cop their way of life yet it is not helping, we cop their system of government yet it is not helping, we cop their religion yet is not solving it, i think this is the time we need to sit together as a people and consider what should be our priority instead of imitating.


i agree with your last statement. we should defend our self now when we have gotten the freedom. we may blame them for our past woes under the colony but the past is no longer with us. therefore we cannot blame them for our present woes. we are not under colony any longer.

Daeylar:
all right then, acceptable.


Oh this makes it much better now. I initially thought the family won't get anything.

Thanks you've been of help.

you are welcome

Daeylar:
@bold I don't think so,
It's just another means for your loved ones to have your remains, i think they can worship your ashes even if it wasn't turned to diamonds.

@ cremated bold. So this means they will give it back to loved ones right? The ashes I mean.

Well, this is also true, but taking into consideration, how human mind work. it is likely a diamond stone will be idolized instead of ashes. well, i may still be wrong. but i found it more comfortable having my remains in ashes were it can be placed somewhere in my library. so let me just say, i do not want to have my remains used for ornament.

yes on the second questions, the family may request for it or perhaps it can be blown away . depending on what the family want.

[quote author=budaatum post=67106733]

Kovah, I am unfortunately pivoted on the side of western superiority over Nigeria, a side most Nigerians would shirk from holding because it would seem like denigrating my own. Unfortunately, sentiment aside, history is there to observe who had the advantage. It would depend which periods one is considering, of course, for a like for like comparison.

this cash my attention and i do not feel like living it unchallenged, it is a dishonest write-up. European rewriting the history to favor them does not make it true, it is just a way of spreading falsehood in favor of truth, of course we are colonized, enslave and brainwashed but some of us have been emancipated. and i am proud to tell you i am one out of many.

One indicator is history. The more developed a nation was in the past, the more historical records there are showing that development. Go and search for written history about Africa, and you'd find we hardly kept any. How could we have been as developed as nations that kept more detailed and older historical records?

this is false, history and record are well kept in form of oral literature in sub Saharan African and it was passed down to us till date while some countries in Africa such as Ethiopia as a well documented history and likewise Egypt. our tribal races have inherent Knowledge and Wisdom about herbal-ism, ancient medical and surgical treatments, climatic warnings, study of visible stars and planets, Sirius movements, water conservation methods, law of cause and effect, preservation of old tradition that has exist earlier before them. while some still used it today though knowledge fading off quickly due to abandonment.

Writing, another indicator, was non-existent in Nigeria until the arrival of Islam and Arabic. It is why our alphabet had to be created by westerners, and along western lines.

this is another error, there was nothing like NIGERIA before the arrival of the colonial master,every tribe or races has a way of communication that is not limited to speech witting, using Yoruba has a case study, we have a develop mailing system called aroko. aroko then is our lexicon ,which is used among communities, kings to kings, and friends to friends to send their message and wish to each representative. it is true that the Europe help develop our lexicons but that was when we have been colonized to act like them, so i will say they help us develop our lexicons to suits their preferences not ours.

Now consider art. Western art had advanced way further than art had in Nigeria by the 1500s, and even our Nok art, which could be called sculptures, had been significantly superseded by the time we were making that art. The reason the Westerner stole ours was not because it was superior, but because, in their opinion, we had never been able to produce such things, and because they were in a superior position so as to steal it without us being able to do anything about it!

Another misconstrued view, Africa - the entire continent and its people not only Nigeria alone - was raped. Plain and simple.Had this never happened, it is fair to say that Africa would by now rival North America in wealth, the evidence was there, the old malian king weath was estimated to be close to 500 billion dollars which is yet to be matched till now. even rival East Asia in technology, and everyone else in every other aspect. Much of what we African people had/has contributed to the cultures into which they were forcefully displaced is ignored. We contributed music, art, architecture, a rich history (much of which was blotted out), language, food, science, and so much more.

Religion, is another indicator of social advancement . Our religions, by the time the westerners arrived, were disjointed, and in Yorubaland, even the worship of the same gods was not universal across neighbouring societies. What Ogun and Sango requested of it's adherents in one community was not necessarily what Ogun and Sango requested in a neighbouring community, whereas, by about 1000AD, Yahweh, was pretty much supreme in most of Western Europe. They had abandoned the equivalent archaic gods of Zeus and Aphrodite, to name a couple, years before and long after some still clung on to Ogun and Sango and still do in current Nigeria! It is Yahweh's superiority that has overwhelmed our gods and turned them into what most refer to as demons today, sadly. If our gods had united and united us, Yahweh would have easily been repelled.

Another flawed point. African as a whole do not take religion into extreme the way the western took it, we see it as part of our culture , and therefore do not not separate it as a difference identity, in fact there was no different between ogun and osun adherents as the measures of piety was not based on what you adhere to but what you contribute to society at large, if you are a shango adherent but spread significant impact to our society, ogun adherent or obatanla adherent will acknowledge it and see it as part of one family,he or she will even seek your blessing.we do not have a face value religion. we are one as a whole. Europe paganism is not lost as it still rooted into Christianity. catholic still keep it intact. and our oisha turning into demons was as result of brainwashing and marketing strategy of the missionaries. our history was rewrite to favor colonial master.

And in case you do not know, Islam had been invading western Nigeria long before the arrival of the westerner. Some have claimed that trans-sahara slavery, a consequence of those invasions, resulted in more people enslaved than those enslaved in the trans-atlantic slave trade!

sure, our first contact as omo ile ka ro oji ire with Islam were the people from mali. we were dealing with horses, cola nut and other commodities from them. even the aid of Portuguese guns enhance the slavery business. in fact the slavery was a trade and not consider irrational, as Africa then was in a stage of renaissance. oyo was a good location to raise cow since the area of the most populated muslim area are infected with tsetse fly and this is also one of the reasons the fulanis((the then muslim) also find south west interesting and good home to raise their precious animal.

Then look at philosophy. While Egypt, an African nation, was very well advanced in this by the beginning of the first millennium, albeit couched behind the veil of the gods Osiris et al, Europe was having much more involved discourse about philosophical ideas while Nigeria wasn't

.flawed as usual, there was not Nigeria not until 1914, it will be honored and more intellectual of you to talk about the city state like oyo empire and other empire that was there before the arrival of the Portuguese in 15 century ,the westerner do not bring anything new to us as a whole, apart from their own commercial and business techniques that was established to served their own purpose. before they came with their brand of administration system, we already had a functional social system, for example , social club, occupational guide, leagues of traders and other progressive organization were on the run functioning and moving the city forward. so philosophically we have been expanding,they only came to interrupt with their own systems by applying force.And ii hope you know the difficulty it involve learnning a new system from foundation. the diversionary. this is what is still affecting us till date, we are yet to understand the system because it does not fit into our philosophy.

Now fast forward to the 16th Century. The Western European was travelling the world in very large vessels and covering distances we never imagined existed. They were using ideas and technology we knew nothing of and were able to exploit the void in our knowledge. While they were staring at the moon and planets and writing thesis about them, we were afraid to enter the forests in our backyards least gbomogbomo takes us away and sell us as slaves.

our land is rich and vital, so the need to exploit beyond our horizons was not of important yet we still managed to cover spaces of land within us, there was a good relationship between the kushite and ghana empire, they deal in Gold and salt, military techniques were exchanged. oyo empire too with her ashanti empire were also of important trading partner, and this was the reason many southerner(yoruba) had Ghanaian heritage , like myself, my family house is still in Ghana. it is of about 150 years. in fact that is my second home. The west use to be like us not until when their economy begin to crumble,looking for new market, raw material and so many other valuable item to strengthen back the fallen economy. so their discomfort push them out. have you ask yourself why Chinese were not influx of Africa? despite their military strength as at then . most of the technology and food that was later adopted by the west were also stolen, example the abacus system that developed the modern day computer happens to be a china/ egypt technology for counting of numbers, the gun powder known as bullet technology too was also stolen from the arabs/muslim during the crusader war, the arabs/muslim do not hold it, it was originally found in china as a result of chemical mistake prepared to increase lifespan. even fruits like sugar cane was discover during the crusader war and orange were taken from the Muslim who traded in Europe.... and also do not forget the Arabic numerals

Then consider today. Yes, they impose their ideas and technology on us, but it must be noted that they do not exactly have to over exert themselves for us to accept it. And our acceptance is not out of ignorance but out of acknowledgment of the superiority of what they produce compared to what we produce. Or who amongst us would chose to purchase a made in Nigeria car or phone if they can afford a second hand western made and already used to death one? Do we even make any of these things? Even our said cars are run on imported petrol, and in a country that is amongst the top ten producers of the raw product from which that petrol is made!

adopting and taking an ideology that is entire different from us is a big challenged and that is why we found ourselves in this big mess. Singapore leaders were visionary enough to realized this quick, they draw a master plan of their economy with their culture as a center point, i am sure you know the position of Singapore today, SOUTH korea refuse to copy japan system, though they were colonized by them, they also set up their own economical plan reflecting their cuiltural system. you and i knows the position of south korea today, No country can developed coping people culture. we all have different beginning. this is what Tanzania most respected leader says '' lets take what is benefiting in their culture and discard the rest'' Julius Nyerere of blessed memory. so we are here today because the we fail to accept it.

And for your information, oil was first discovered at the Oloibiri Oilfield on Sunday 15 January 1956 by Shell Darcy after a lot of exploration by many other western companies. The westerners did let you go after it was discovered though as you wrongly claim, and, they kept their grubby fingers on that oil until we kicked them out with various Indigenisation Bills starting in the early 70s.

Nigeria itself was created purposely for business, to enrich colonial master and Britain, we are city state earlier before we are forced against our will, every race and tribe of the NOK civilization that spread from the northern kaduna to every other part were united, we had no oil then, yet we are prosperous, it should be noted to you that we are majorly farmers, and the product like cotton and cocoa that the colonial brought to us do well in our lands and we were able to reproduce lots of it. which the return was heavily utilized to develop Britain. we Africa will have be like China today, but the colonial division has destroyed our fabric of unity. The Poison will inherit from each colonial masters is embedded in our mind till today, we still copy the colonial religions and his way of thinking and badly hate ourselves , check what is go on in Nigeria north, there will be noting like religious war, because it does not exist before the colony. . oyo empire empires is bigger than the many european empire and our city states were well organised before the backwards arrival of the white.

I mention all this because of the consequence of not realising as a nation, how far we have developed compared to other nations. Japan, the Land of the Rising Sun, too thought they were superior until the might of the west showed them they weren't, which propelled them to do something about it. China, the most populous nation on earth, realised how far backward they had gotten, and have done a great leap forward to rectify the situation. The Arab world took one look at the objective reality, and while they claim Allah is superior, they accept that a thatched hut in the desert can not be said to be superior to the magnificent stone buildings built in the west. They have been doing quite a lot to rectify the situation . But we Nigerians imagine a glorious past where we were superior and so do nothing to move us forward, while the reality is that we recede further backward compared to the more developing nations.

This does not in anyway had anything to do with pre-colonial past, we were quite evolving in our own way,not until the back stabber put a dagger into it. so way forward is to develop our own master plan and address it in a way that will solve our problem and not in a way that will honor the west. we are people of different background with different focus.

While the West base their progress on objective reality and build institutions of technology, we seem to think miracles would prevail and build temples in which to pray to gods we create with our imaginations, an ideology the west abandoned centuries ago when they realised it was taking them into darkness which we are in now!

The west has a culture and value system they protect, Democracy is a Greek culture,it has been used for more than 2000 years . hope you know the importance of Greek development in Europe civilization , the British royal system has been for centuries, they are still respecting it. same thing in many Europe state. where their culture has been preserved. they understand the Yoruba proverb that says '' the river that forget its origin will dry away''

There is a consequence to building up subjective imaginary realities in our heads and refusing to face the objective facts, and it's like believing one can survive in a room that the oxygen has been sucked out of! I think we agreed what the end of that folly is.

it is neither objective nor subjective, i wonder how you manage to push this to it, it is what to do to make it better? we should work rather than talk . budatuum . your write up is so full of misinformation.

budaatum:
Of course you can insult, but you wouldn't insult me, and of course, you see no need to. Like I said, I know how you treat me and whatever opinion you may have about me is irrelevant, at the moment.

Just imagine if with no evidence, I decide in my head that you think I am a fool and insult me in your mind, can you see how I might begin to attack you for no reason? Then I bet you would insult me back, and before we know it you and I would be at war, caused by me cooking up false ideas of your opinion of me in my head. I'd also have to lie and say you insulted me first! Millions die for such stupidity and there are numerous threads on here where it has been done! Hopefully, you and I will not be contributing to that number.

Nigerians often claim we were advanced, but the facts don't support that view. We didn't have an alphabet for instance, until Arabic was brought from the North, and sparsely at that. Our medicine was very backward, and the artisanship was rather basic compared to what prevailed elsewhere.

The colonisers were actually able to colonise us because we lacked the things you claim we had. And we adopted western ideas because we found their's to be superior to what we had. Or why would we abandon our Obatala and Ogun for Allah and Yahweh or allow them to enslave us if we were superior in any way whatsoever. If we truly did have those things you claim we had, we would have been able to repel the westerners with their ideology!

Do note that no nation develops without external influence. Britain was colonised by the Romans, and Americas by the Europeans. Even Japan and China was influenced by invaders!
[

This is easily refuted but i will let it go as it is between you and kovah

Daeylar:
I think I'm like you. No bodies for science for me. And yeah, you're right. That body for science bothered me a bit


OK, your plan in number 1 is a good one, no remains in diamonds for you?


As for number, I still don't know. May not do it though.

Will the body be given yo science immediately after death? Like the whole body? No part can be left out?

you can sign up for it before your death, and also for organ and tissue donation. the transplantable organ would benefit others as quick as possible since they are people urgently in need of it. …but for whole body donation, the benefit besides the obvious help to science is that they cremate the body usually for free after the best part of it had be taken or utilized. though there's no guarantee they'll take you - depends on the circumstances of your death. except for the university lab who will be using it for obvious practical. they may even reject it as well. in Germany, Ludwig Maximilian university take it i hear but most people sign up with red cross who will easily tell you what to do.

i do not see the logic in turning my remains into valuable diamond, that is weird and creepy, in fact it might even be idolized. i do not want to innovate another religion. i also do not like the old traditional funeral practice, it is creepy as well,beside am not a fan of decomposition.

budaatum:
[s]Just about everything you claimed here is untrue![/s]

Do not make claim without backing it. it is error itself. anyway thanks .that is not what what the op is all about.

budaatum:
That was said about the case being dealt with in court and had nothing to do with his impeachment which was dealt with by the House of Representatives and the House of Senate, and which was for perjury and obstruction of justice.

You could just have admitted your error when Anonymous corrected you!

i never claimed he was impeached based on sexual immorality, so anonymous was just reading me out of context, i do not why he does that,maybe to make a claim anyway. this is the same thing you are also doing. I NEVER SAID SO . I ONLY INSINUATE THAT HIS SEX SCANDAL ALMOST DESTROY HIS CAREER. how many times will i correct this.

vaxx:
my point was not about what impeached bill Clinton, my point was about how the sexual allegation almost run his carrier, this is what the Federal judge Susan Webber Wright wrote the following about his citation when he lied

"Simply put, the president's deposition testimony regarding whether he had ever been alone with Ms. (Monica) Lewinsky was intentionally false, and his statements regarding whether he had ever engaged in sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky likewise were intentionally false...."

The argument was that the crime was too minor to impeach and convict a president. The Democrats said that despite Clinton having made low crimes, seen with perjury, he should not be convicted as the Constitution said that a president may only be convicted of high crimes, treason and bribery, which according to the Democrats in the House and Senate, he has not done. which was the reasons i says justice was tamper with mercy.

budaatum. this is the quote

budaatum:
Federal judge Susan Webber Wright was not dealing with Clinton's impeachment or his sexual morality. The he word "false" used twice in your quote was about his telling lies, and not about what he did with Monica!

"In April 1999, about two months after being acquitted by the Senate, Clinton was cited by Federal District Judge Susan Webber Wright for civil contempt of court for his "willful failure" to obey her repeated orders to testify truthfully in the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit."

And no justice was tempered with any mercy. The senate simply played party politics and could not get the two thirds (67 votes) required to impeach him.

this is not the purpose of this thread. but anyway i will answer you, i hope you read the quote of the federal judge herself when she made mention of the case related to the sex allegations and how he Clinton denied it. when i made mention '' america tamper justice with mercy'' it is a figure of speech, it just to ascertain that he was not push further on such offence, and i hope you read the argument of what democrat argue on and why he could not be convicted for the minor offence since he had not go against the constitution yet. i am not saying he was impeached base on sexual immorality, my argument was base on how his sexual immorality almost destroy his career. enough of the derailing,can we go back to the op.

Daeylar:
What about you?

What would you like done?

OK I know I said I don't care but isssh, I hope bodies donated are treated well?
So the bodies donated how is it done? Immediately after death the body is given to science?

honestly you care , atleast for asking this question. have you seen what the thread now aim to derived? You ask two questions at a ago.

1, i will like to donate the transpalantable part of me to whomever may want it, and as for science or university lab, I am somehow not settled but later experience may change it. for now. i do not love rot, desiccation or any fundamentals of decomposition and i wish my remains to be handled in an efficient manner, so the remains after the donor can be cremated, while the dust should be kept in my library for my grandchildren and the one yet unborn.

2, you were asking how is the body managed after giving to science, first it will be good for student of anatomy, you body will be used to learn the fantastic subject.in the laboratory research, your body could be the key to unlocking a puzzle that has bewildered scientist forever, since the beginning of time as we know it. so your remains is on the go to add value to the living. and so many interesting things.

Good work, this is cooperate social responsibility. i support more of it.

Daeylar:
Donating my organs if I could would be wonderful.

Then the cremation to diamond business.

But let those who will mourn me choose what's best for them..

i suggest the first one, it will be super wonderful. you will be adding value to humanity, what about donating yourself to science or university lab. can you suggest that in your will.

Daeylar:
Just wanted to let you know about the trollings and ridiculous comments you will get.

It can go to FP of course.

i will not like to witness that, i am interested in insightful contribution.but thanks

Daeylar:
@ vaxx
I really don't care

I will be gone. Won't feel or know a thing so I really don't care about what is done with my body when I'm gone.

I think anyone who has to mourn my loss should decide that, they are the ones who the whole cremation, burial and the rest will affect,


I already will be gone so won't have an idea of anything.


PS
Don't know about taking your topic to FP though. The trolling and ridiculous comments will be epic.
This forum barely takes anything serious

so you mean it should be limited

Daeylar:
I really don't care

I will be gone. Won't feel or know a thing so I really don't care about what is done with my body when I'm gone.

I think anyone who has to mourn my loss should decide that, they are the ones who the whole cremation, burial and the rest will affect,


I already will be gone so won't have an idea of anything.

@vaxx

brilliant, now that you are alive.what will you wish to happen to your remains,? will you not be happy to still have some part of yourself still living in someone you donate your organs to

budaatum:
The impeachment of Bill Clinton was initiated in December 1998 by the House of Representatives and led to a trial in the Senate for the impeachment of Bill Clinton, the 42nd President of the United States, on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice. Wiki

my point was not about what impeached bill Clinton, my point was about how the sexual allegation almost run his carrier, this is what the Federal judge Susan Webber Wright wrote the following about his citation when he lied

"Simply put, the president's deposition testimony regarding whether he had ever been alone with Ms. (Monica) Lewinsky was intentionally false, and his statements regarding whether he had ever engaged in sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky likewise were intentionally false...."

The argument was that the crime was too minor to impeach and convict a president. The Democrats said that despite Clinton having made low crimes, seen with perjury, he should not be convicted as the Constitution said that a president may only be convicted of high crimes, treason and bribery, which according to the Democrats in the House and Senate, he has not done. which was the reasons i says justice was tamper with mercy.

AnonyNymous:
Bill Clinton's crime was lying under oath, and obstructing justice, not having an affair. Just saying. That's the reason he was impeached.

then you are not abreast with the news, allegations was raised against bill Clinton sexual immorality in which he FORMERLY denied, since that will bring shame to the white house and likewise he would be disqualify for any public office . Bill Clinton’s behavior with Monica Lewinsky is an abuse of power, even if it was consensual. ''AMERICANS AGREE'' currently there is a current usa senator(ROY MOORE ) in such a mess now and the case is still yet to be resolved. even Donald trump will have been a culprit assuming the allegations levied against him were during his current presidency and not before. AMERICANS WERE ABLE TO TAMPER JUSTICE WITH MERCY, HE WAS NOT CONVICTED OF PERJURY AFTER HE ADMITTED.

Gggg102:
why homosexuality cannot be made illegal for religious reasons.

1. Nigeria is (supposed to be) a secular state. it is not ruled based on a particular religion and there is freedom of religion.
you can't make someone do something just because your religion says that is what to be done especially if that person doesn't adhere to your religion.

for the christians:

would you accept if pork was made illegal in the whole of Nigeria because Islam is against eating of pork?

would you accept if alcohol was banned completely because Islam forbids alcohol?

would you accept to wear hijab and cover yourself completely if it was made legal because of that's what Islam teaches?

for muslims:

would you accept if all prayers were made constitutionally to end in Jesus' name?

would you accept if polygamy was made illegal because Bible teaches one man one wife?

would you accept if ileya and all other Muslim activities were made illegal because they are not Christian based?

muric is still complaining that their rights are being violated.

for Christians, Muslims and other religious people :

would you agree if all religious activities were made illegal just because atheists don't believe in religious activities?

if you won't accept if other people would want to make laws for you based on their religious beliefs which you don't subscribe to, why would you want to make laws for others based on your religious beliefs which they don't subscribe to?

2. how does what two adults do in their privacy concern or affect you?
your neighbor might be a homosexual in secret, does it affect you in any way?
some people don't like it when others tell them how to raise their children talkless of telling adults how to live their private lives.

if homosexuality is illegal, would you start going from bedroom to bedroom to see if people are breaking the law?

if you find out someone is homosexuality, would it affect you in anyway?

what would you gain by making it illegal/reporting someone for practicing it?


making law for homosexuality is tantamount to making laws that approve of some sex styles.

you might as well make laws concerning how you must use the toilet.
you might as well making squatting on the toilet seat illegal.

you might as well make eating Garri without groundnut illegal just because you don't like Garri without groundnut.
or make dipping bread in tea illegal because you don't like it.


if you don't like homosexuality then fine, but you can't force your choice on someone. after all, there is freewill.

Sure i agree with you there is a freewill, but taking ethics into consideration, should we allow Mr president to go ahead with the sexual affairs with his secretary? at least they are two adult who agree on a mutual agreement. i belt you a democratic country like USA will disagree with you. do well to check bill Clinton saga and his secretary case. or should we say, ok, The father can do it with his daughter if he is not doing it against her will. will that be acceptable? or should we live her alone, it is her dog. let them go ahead with bestiality.


there should be control system that should reflect our consensus agreement and not because some western country do it, therefore we have to adopt it. i remember during barrack Obama regime, majority of the Americans reject the then surgeon General(equivalent of NIGERIA MINISTER OF HEALTH) just because he was obese, they think that the position is only qualify for moderate size induvidual. And USA listen. it their own perspective. lets recognize ours, our perspective as Africans do not tolerate homosexuality. though i do not advocate for jail term ,that is too extreme. rehabilitation home is not that bad.

hopefulLandlord:
I've gone through this homosexuality arguments a lot in the past right here in this section and I've NEVER heard intelligent arguments against it

I find homosexuality, especially man to man (gay), to be disgusting and I even find anal sex with the opposite sex to be also disgusting but if there's someone that prefers the same sex, they're doing the did in the privacy of their home and are consenting adults who know what they're getting into and derive pleasure from it then why would I argue against such a thing? I feel it all boils down to trying to impose your own choices on others who made a different "choice". I use the word " Choice " loosely

It seems to me that those that keeps thinking gays should be imprisoned are even shortsighted

Judge: We found you guilty of having sex with a fellow man which is against bla bla bla of the constitution, we would now put you in a room filled entirely with no other than fellow men, you'll be there for fourteen years

That's akin to sentencing a glutton to 14 years of being given any food he wants at whatever quantity he wants it

prisons are inefficient vehicles for messages: ask anyone who do drug and was jailed. rehabilitation home is better instead.

9japrof:
Can you read and write? Do you have basic communication skills? If Yes, Tertiary education is a complete waste of precious time except in some core disciplines like law and medicine.


Education doesn't define that one would be successful, it's mere certificate and it is due to that craze people are doing the "undoable" to get the certificates. WAEC and NECO alledgedly leaked before the exams, there are thousands of special centres where students can get ridiculous grades without reading their books.

Students fork and bribe their way through tertiary to get good grades only for the countries institutions to churn out quarks and semi quarks individuals. If only Nigeria can soft-pedal on this madness about certificates, and focus on the individual and what he can do, maybe that could be the start of the reduction of the many societal ills in this country

Time does not waste. ''We'' may choose to maximize (make the most fruitful use of) or to waste it. Do you intend on wasting your time? Are you prone to wasting your time or engaging in activities that are deemed by others as 'time wasters'? Do you club, gamble on nairabet or any other soccer game or spend an valuable amount of time playing video games? Do you understand where I'm going with this? If you attend university and ''decide to waste your time'' while there (by clubbing too much or spending more time playing games than expanding your intellectual horizons) you will surely find that the experience will have been a waste of your time, but not by the virtue of the experience but rather by your own ''choices''

in this part of my world, university are evolving to meet the growing demands of employers, that is, they need university grads skilled in specific tasks churned out faster than ever. Degrees in the medical field not only medicine, as an example, there is need of more people to keep up with the casualties of the aging Baby Boomers, the obesity epidemic, and the skyrocketing rates of cancer, autism and other diseases while degree in management are needed strongly to cover and amends the lapses discover in the economy . '' yeah Nigeria can get there''

And for other part of your comment, it is not an educational problem but the political structure of Nigeria that covers all the facet of governance that needs urgent attention.


i disagree with the video

AT least for now, if my voice can be heard, i will advice Nigeria government to stop any mandatory minimum wage, there should be no mandatory minimum rate of pay for workers in Nigeria . Pay rates should be agreed upon directly with the employer through collective bargaining or other means of negotiating a fair living wag and likewise base on performances.

If we must copy the west, the lowest Minimum Wage of a worker that should be legally paid for his work should be around 200k which is not even up to 800 dollars at least considering the economy situation.

the minimum wage should varies by occupation, the lowest minimum wage maybe directed to industrial sector while a slightly higher minimum wage rate should be given for to construction workers. the service sector can be settled averagely.

whenever i see makoko, i see tourism potential, i have this thing in me telling me makoko can be turned into tourism site and bring fourth financial gain to Lagos and Nigeria at large.

[quote author=budaatum post=67059483]

Science cannot be by consent if no objective evidence is provided to justify that consent! That is why scientific experiments, at least, require peer reviews to ascertain repeatability, verifiability , falsifiability, and most important of all, objectivity.

very correct, this further buttress the importance of objectivity in science.

No one in their right sense can argue that a one litre jug filled with a carefully measured out half a litre of water is not half full and half empty.

science sometimes disrespect logic or common sense, there are counter-intuitive and yet relevant theory that directly contradicts the everyday, commonsense, naked-eye experience and the evidence that gainsays commonsense is difficult to come by even with setting up a parameter, it still can be falsified. Scientists learned to disabuse themselves of intuition and draw conclusions from data. i do not want to go further on this postulation as i have provided enough reasons to debunk it on the concept of subjectivity.

you need not to fear, lets talk about it, how will you want your remains to be disposed?. ''In the face of our inevitable mortality we can do one of two things. we can attempt to avoid the thought at all costs, clinging to the illusion that we have all the time in the world. Or we can confront this reality, accept and even embrace it, converting our consciousness of death into something positive and active. In adopting such a fearless philosophy, we gain a sense of proportion, become able to separate what is petty from what is truly important. Knowing our days to be numbered, we have a sense of urgency and mission. We can appreciate life all the more for its impermanence. If we can overcome the fear of death, then there is nothing left to fear''. Steve jobs


Moderator, i will like to get more contribution on this topic. mynd44 .seun and the rest.

budaatum:
Which was in response to the following:

kudos

budaatum:
vaxx, is he right?

i answer something similar like this in your former thread where i use global warming as an example. check up

Butterflyleo:
The academic approach to science is objective because it is a search for answers with findings scrutinized by peers.

An ideological approach to science is subjective because it starts with the desired findings at hand prior to the experiment.

Long story short, the process of testing is generally objective while the thought processes in interpreting t[b]he results are usually very subjective.
[/b]
So this cannot be said to be a good position for "truth" as you infer. There are still so much out there that are true and yet have no scientific evidence backing them up yet science cannot deny their existence.

cc vaxx am i right?

this is what is dragging science progress, not having consensus agreement. the fact of science should be objective.

i love the first point, the one i colored.

budaatum:
So, is it your opinion that the title of this thread, Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived, is false?

I agree with you on it. but the op is a good writeup wordy of brain cracking

pressplay411:
So what happens to phenomena that science hasn't been able to prove? Does that make them unreal? Or is that incapacity and inadequacy of science?

I mean what's your explanation for Deja vu, Sleep paralysis, Hailey's comet, astrology, miracles etc. The fact that science doesn't give explanations for them doesn't make them unreal, but Science is yet to understand them.
EM waves weren't discovered/explained until about 150 years ago by Heinrich Hertz. Does that mean they were unreal before then? Now we harness it in our technology from phones to drones because we now know and understand better.

Hence for starters, God is beyond science. And His choice of indiscoverability doesn't prove that God doesn't exist but rather, science is inadequate to prove His existence.

THUMBS UP

[quote author=Martinez19 post=67052634]

Science is about truth and objective reality.

Science is our attempt to “capture” the truth in a form that can be shared and tested and discussed and propagated from one person to another. We write it down, we talk about it, we use it to build more science, etc. and this become objective. which means All that involves the use of relative things that cannot be made non-relative or absolute. So science cannot “contain” the truth in his openness, it can only make an attempt to represent some aspect of it..

Anything that isn't true and has no evidence or proof backing it up can't be considered science.

this is false, science does not deals with proof, I can tell you that right this second, I sat beside a pretty damsel at elengunshi beach talking to one of the oloshos, If anyone come to elegunshi now, they would see the two of us, and go away knowing that we were really at the beach.

The proof that we were in the beach was the fact that they saw us!

There’s all sorts of things that we bandy around as facts — for instance, that England won the football world cup in 1966 or real Madrid won yesterday match. hope you watch it? if i ask you to prove it, you may show me video or photos supporting your claim. and it will have to be a kind of obstinate fo anyone to disagree that real Madrid won yesterday match, nobody doubt that Nigeria was in a big mess under general sanni abacha at least i remember though i was younger then.

But in the scientific realm? Doubt abounds.

None of the things listed above as “proof” would be accepted as such in science — even the simple observation of two people having sex with your own eyes! though it counts

“Proof” implies that there is no room for error — that you can be 100% sure that what you have written down on the piece of paper is 100% representative of what you are talking about. And quite simply, that doesn’t exist in the real world. I cannot prove to you that electrons exist.
No number of scientists in the world can ever prove that the stars are far away, prove that things will always fall down when you drop them, prove that energy is conserved, prove that dark matter exists, prove that quantum physics is real. you know why Because that it is not what science is about.

Proof can only exist when there is no doubt, and there is always doubt. You could be a brain in a vat, living in a crazy simulation. You could be hallucinating everything. as ellon musk put it. so science only gather evidence, but evidence will never be 100% perfect,there’s always the chance that everything you scientifically verified might needs further explanation or even turns out to be false — but the evidence allows us to make current-best-evidence-guesses

Muafrika2:
Exactly

You're likely to end up in the nearest garbage heap together with all kinds of abominable things. Organ donation is better. At least you relatives will get the rest of the body ...

To those who may be in need of it