₦airaland Forum

FOLYKAZE:
You are only distorting the concept of Orisha by eliminating the real essence and this cannot be accepted.

When a body of water in Ondo state has a dedicated shrine and purported force called God by adherent, it is an insult for someone to write some junk calling that God ordinary water.

You buddy should be the one that needs to apologise for calling the Deity of some people simply 'a man hiding under veil'.




Baseless. The Egungun dwell in Orun. Everyone knows that what I am referring to Heaven is Orun of the Yoruba cosmo.



My dear, you do not just create words without any reference to Ifa. All you wrote up there is absent in Ifá.

The dead ones can always be call upon through oro. This is what Ifa said. And when they are called upon, they respond as Alaye. Also they can be invoked to amend or appease on behalf of his/her heirs.



When one speak from both sides of his mouth, he loses his respect. Were you not the one that said Egungun is simply a man hiding behind a veil?

To the emboldened, the ritual, atonement and ceremony for Egungun is all because of thoughts, heroism and achievements while they were alive? Where do you get this nonsense from?



All you have written in your previous post doss not address my question. What is Ajogun and please tell us the benevolent aspect of Ajogun

FOLYKAZE:
All you've written above is hogwash. No one is denying the natural representation of Orisha. While we know that Osun is a water (h20) on the surface, there is more to it on the spirtual aspect when we dig more. So you telling us that Egungun is simply man who hides under the veil brings to the point that you know absolutely nothing about ATS.

Simply tell us what ajogun is and their benevolent attribute to existence

shadeyinka:
I speak with respect to the messengers of Esu( Ajoguns) They are malevolent (I call them demons). Demons do no good to anyone (maybe let's not consider whether they are anti God or not) hence Christians do not negotiate with them nor appease them; instead, we force them out.

Now my question is when these malevolent spirits from Esu are afflicting a person, apart from appeasement, do Yoruba ATR also force them out?

If yes, how?

FeelDeMusic:
Wow, interesting! So ajogun are more like man-made creations as a result of their bad behavior and the genral opposits of life? If so this is pretty interesting and revealing....

shadeyinka:
@ vaxx

When Christians notice a demonic problem in a person, the demons are never appeased : they are driven out.

Now in (Yoruba) ATR, apart from sacrifices (appeasement) are demons (malevolent spirits) also driven out? and howw if it is done?

FOLYKAZE:
Firstly, a deistism is a philosophical position that holds that God (in this case here Eledumare) does not interfare with the world. Thia posit that God is the source of everything and in a perfect condition but there is absenss of divine intervention. This is a fact because no one has ever engage Olódùmarè directly. There is no dedicated shrine or prophet that speaks with him.

Ori is the spark of consciousness and it is integral part of all the entities that exist in the physical world. Ori is not peculiar to only human and that mean that we are not the only conscious entity out there. Maybe what you mean by consciousness is sentience. go the Yoruba people hold that emi (life) and ori (consciousness) is present in every entity that exist. Emi in this case is not biological life but energy. Have you ever wondered there are aboku soro in Yoruba community? Do dead talks? This implies that what we assume dead is only biologically dead but still very much alive as a form of energy.

All the animals you can think about has their owm special Ashe. And this includes the trees and inanimate objects. Therefore, one cannot say that Eledumare is anthropocentric.

Ajoguns who are malevolent agents of Esu can cause one or whole community calamity. This is why Yoruba people appease Esu not to unleash his agent on them with this saying, Èṣù máse mi, ọmọ èlò mi ni ki o se

FOLYKAZE:
There are lot of mix-up here.

1. Human life according to the Yoruba traditional belief is predetermined in Ajule Orun.

2. Ajogun is an evil spirit that offers nothing other than lose and calamities. Ajoguns are the agent of Esu. And the only way to pull them away is through appeasing with Ebo.

3. Member of Ajogun is death, sickness, depression, loses and pain. You haven't explain how any of this emanated from human behaviour.

CuteMadridista:
Also @vaxx

Are Olodumare and Eledumare the same entity?

CuteMadridista:
Good!

There are several gods in the Yoruba Pantheon? how did these gods come about? were they created by Olodumare straight? were they just humans elevated to gods status by Olodumare or Man?

FeelDeMusic:
Ok, so of course I had to jump on this thread as I'm very curious about the Yoruba Ifa religion.... Vaxx or anyone else who may be able to answer, are there any other kind of spirits in the Yoruba religion/mythology, not talking about Orisa here, but just any other sort of beings/creatures that the Yoruba believe in? For example the British/Irish believe in fairies and the Icelandic believe in elves....

darkchild64:
sorry I don't get your reply,just put your answer in simple terms like, "yes their is hell in the Yoruba religion called ......" or 'no their is no hell in the Yoruba religion" or perhaps something else,but let it be clear

FOLYKAZE:
I disagree.

The universe is bounded with two forces; positive and negative. This include man and every entities therein. While we can be good, we can also be bad, it depends on the angle you are looking at it. However, neither the good or bad must overlap each other. It is therefore a necessity to keep an Harmony to avoid chaos.

The chaos mentioned above is evil. One must give sacrifice to Esu or he unleash Ajogun on his prey. We also give sacrifice to Eshu to appease the Eleye. Ajogun have nothing to provide anyone except calamity, loses and death.

We actually cannot completely eliminate evil. It gives meaning to what we know as good.

darkchild64:
cutemadridsta permit me to ask vaxx a question which would determine if I would keep following this topic.

Mr vaxx pls is there any hell that people who didn't follow the Yoruba religion would go to like the one in christianity ?

CuteMadridista:
Interesting, how do you absolve Olodumare from the responsibility of evil if the evil came from man's character? is it that he created us with that possibility of doing evil?

also what is ATR's views on freewill and is Olodumare also omniscient like the Abrahamic gods?

butterflylion:
You are being set up. Do not say I did not warn you.

He is already inviting an antagonist to this thread to counter you. He does not wish to learn. He wishes to expose you and what you stand for as falsehood and confused.

His modus operandi precedes him. If he tells you to stand, you run. Such is how his mind works steadily.

Do not be misled by his subtlety. The end is always the same.

CuteMadridista:
Vaxx, This is a discussion between you and I and I never called anyone to this thread except those ready to educate us as I said in OP, asides that I never called anyone here

I notice some people see whatever they want to see based on their preconceived conclusions which made them interpret this post https://www.nairaland.com/post/65750087 as me inviting someone to THIS thread which isn't true as the link I gave in that post was actually that which you gave in your second post on this thread

This troublemaker, attention seeker and scammer has always been against your educating me on ATR for (perhaps) personal reasons cuz I see no sense in his attempt at stirring up drama here over a post that has nothing to do with this thread

I'll advice you to ignore this guy as far as this thread is concerned if you can help it unless he asks questions if he has any and doesn't bring arguments, I hope you hearken to this advice as it'll help this thread stay sane and serve its purpose

butterflylion:
Post the link for me here if you wouldn't mind

butterflylion:
Cc vaxx do you see how deceptive these guys can be?

In his previous post he denies insults and disrespect and here he is saying the opposite.

Na so Confessions dey take start.

CuteMadridista:
Interesting reply

Next question, Christianity has Demons, Satan etc and Islam has Shaytan and some other entities they regard as "Evil" does your religion have evil entities too? if yes can you tell us about them? if no then how does your religion account for the existence of evil in the world?

MrPRevailer:
This is absolutely wrong. Herbalists consult evil spirits/demons/gods to solve people's problem. They might use medicinal plants, sacrifice or objects to facilitate the solution they provide.

Revelation 21:8 " But the fearful and unbelieving and abominable and whoremongers and SORCERERS and all liar shall have their part in the lake of fire which is the second death.[/color]

CuteMadridista:
1st question

Who is "Eshu"? I took a tour of the Ooni of Ife's palace when we visited him for some contract to build some buildings in the palace. the tour included visiting the some shrines in the palace and our guide told us that Eshu is not Satan/Devil/Lucifer but its simply a misconception brought about by deceit from the missionaries who were trying hard to make their religion look similar to ours, how true is this? and who is Eshu in the Yoruba Traditional belief?

Vaxx

CuteMadridista:
I've always wanted to be educated on the African traditional beliefs but it seemed difficult as most of the pagans on Nairaland don't give a rat's ass behind about atheists discussion and Babalawos is a disappointment to me as he became a joke with his sham videos till I met Vaxx who tries his hardest to educate peeps on Yoruba traditional belief

This thread would be questions from me to him on his belief, it would be for his educating me and not arguments and other people who have questions on Africa traditional beliefs can also ask him on this thread too if they want to

This is a thread that would last as long as both of us are active on Nairaland and I hope Vaxx keeps answering my questions no matter how dumb they may appear cuz as they say "The stupid question is the question you pretend you knew the answer to but you don't"

CuteMadridista:
Nice and educating. TBF I wasn't the type of person that thinks our traditional worship is worse than Christianity and I just wanted to hear your view on this topic and about how you feel when you hear people brand your type of religion evil

I think you should have a megathread like that of OtemAtum's Doctufos on your traditional belief as a way of educating people who get their stories from only one side and don't care what the other side has to say

jadyclem:
forgiveness is not for the benefit of the other person, but for your own benefit. the more you store ills of what pple have done to you in your heart, d less space u'll have in your heart to accommodate the good things of life. learn to forgive others their wrong towards you regardless of how great the wrong may seem and you'll find yourself enjoying life the more. I hail!

XhosaNostra:
I blame the man more. "My dick made me do it" doesn't hold water I'd make him pay dearly!

orisa37:
Oduduwa is The Word of Olodumare that was with Olodumare in The Beginning and was Olodumare.
Oduduwa is The Light, Goodness and Life of Olodumare in Yoruba.
Some say The Afonjas hide and resurface to write my Command. Awo didn't hide. He was in Prison while Azikwe ran. Awo came out to help Gowon settle Nigeria. Obasanjo didn't hide. Ojukwu ran. Obasanjo took Prisoners of War to Gowon in the fashion of no victor no vanguish all to unite Nigeria. Osinbajo is not hiding but ensuring that Buhari doesn't cause irreparable damage to Nigeria and when IPOB run, they run for good. Oduduwa is The Nephilim God of Africa. Olodumare made it so.

CuteMadridista:
Vaxx, what are your thoughts on this sir?

cr7lomo:
U are the shameless head hunters....laziest and dirty filthy sets of goats...if not for government policy that made Lagos state capital...u think say e go see Enugu back for development...

Bollinger:
Define "made it". The problem with Nigerian is money is you all's god. Don't get me wrong. Money is important but the way you people treat it is the reason for you problems as a people.

ScienceWatch:
Awesome. Very incisive and honest.
Yes VAXX, a women with highly developed feminine powers is superior even to most men.

ScienceWatch:
Very interesting and informative post. Thanks VAXX.
I will try to become Oduduwa.