luvmijeje: She didn't accuse me of being a Christian
I know. But were you brought up in a christian household? If so, she said nothing wrong. Anyone born into any religion like christianity is being indoctrinated into christianity from childhood and that's fact. I'm just clarifying things sha, you women should not pull me in
Ihedinobi3: Again, I must say that you have not judged my answer correctly. An answer is vague if it fails to address what you asked directly. You asked what evidence I can give you for God and I told you that it is creation. I don't see how that is not a straightforward answer.
Anyone can claim that, for example, the sun is green. When we look at the sun, we can tell whether they should be believed or not. Creation is discernible and so are its attributes. If what we see in it corresponds to the claims that God makes about them and to what is demonstrable as His Nature, then we should believe that He made it.
Bruh how is "Creation" a straight forward answer? smh
Shelumiel: If throwing insults in other to debate means "finishing " to you , then I'm sorry to say that you're a cock-sucking loser.
Eyyaa. E pain am well . When you clearly didn't want to debate, why will she debate you? Like I said, she has replied you. Go and use all the insults you probably went to go and learn after she fried your ass to reply her. Am not involved lol
Shelumiel: Bro, why not post the part where I asked her if she wanted a debate , huh?
Oh you mean this?
Shelumiel: Debate or prove that you are a fool ? Which one?
Mind you this was well into the thread and you've already exhausted all your insults by then. Not to mention you were still being hostile and employing ad hominem. If I were her, I wouldn't even debate you. Lol, guy you're just reaching. Stop being desperate. She finished you. Period. Let it go. Edit: She has greeted you now. Why don't you respond to her?
Shelumiel: If I wanted to rain insults , oga Seun would ban my account for life because I would give it in full measure , pressed down and running over . But , I chose to ignore her because I value this account very much ; however , if she wants us to start slinging mud , I'm all game bro
Shelumiel: I did not know you were this jobless . Anyway good luck to you .
LMFAO, HE'S BACK!!! THE DISGRACED MONKEY SHELUMIEL HAS RETURNED Martinez19, HellVictorinho, CreepyBlackpool, MhizAngel99, RuthlessLeader, finalboss. Come and see the return of this disgraced fool! Have you forgotten this thread so soon? The thread where XxSabrinaxX dragged and exposed your foolishness to everybody? https://www.nairaland.com/4952457/christianity-burden-proof Park well, joor. Before Aunty Sabrina will come and flog you again
XxSabrinaxX: I posted these questions to one of the threads under the religious forum. But I found these questions interesting and I decided to dedicate a thread to answering these questions. Some of these questions are questions that have haunted me way back when I was still a christian:
* Why does geography seem to have far more to do with one's religious choice than actual free will? * How can you say God loves and cares about everyone if some people suffer while others prosper? * Even if we assume that one particular religion is true, doesn't the existence of many religions at least prove that mankind likes to make up religious stories, and that people have a tendency to believe them? How do you know yours isn't one of those? * If everyone actually believes in the Christian god, why would highly religious non-Christians purposefully following the wrong religion, especially when that religion is more strict or just as strict as any sect of Christianity? * If Adam and Eve only knew good and evil after eating the fruit, then why did God assume when he told them not to eat it that they knew it was "wrong"? * Why do we inherit sin from our ancestors, but salvation has to be an individual choice? * If god is omniscient, (all knowing), why do you need to pray to him? * If god is omniscient, (all knowing), why does he need to test us? * If god is omnibenevolent, (All Loving) why did he create evil? In Isaiah 45:7 the scripture reads as follows: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." * Please explain the difference between a "Claim" and "Evidence" and after doing so, please show me the evidence for your god.
P.S I want to appeal now before its too late. If you're a christian and the only thing you're going to do in this thread is hurl insults, I'd advise you to reconsider and stay away from this thread. Lets try our best to keep a civil argument
Cc. Seun, OAM4J, Mynd44, budaatum, LordReed, HellVictorinho, Ihedinobi3, solite3, TATIME , Originakalokalo, TheArranger, HellVictorinho, Janettee, adoyi8, Vic2Ree, CAPSLOCKED, Michellekabod1, Ubenedictus, MJBOLT, HardMirror, RuthlessLeader, tintingz, bloododthelamb, frosbel2, jesusjnr, luvmijeje, finalboss, Mobilia, frank317, HopefulLandlord, Ranchhoddas, OtemAtum, vaxx, MhizAngel99, lightblazingnow, CreepyBlackpool, 9inches, PastorAIO Shelumiel, you're free to come and discuss too
Good luck to any christian who tries to answer these questions directly lol
MhizAngel99: Hands down one of the most legendary Nairaland threads, it needs to be archived . R.I.P Shelumiel's NL account. And he only joined last year lol.
Shelumiel made himself the laughing stock of this thread . Christians need to see this thread and learn from his mistakes.
XxSabrinaxX: BOOOORRRRIIIIINNNGG!!!! He wants to go and cry . Useless bag of sh!t. When your mates are busy debating on the religious forums, the only thing you know how to do is post insulting remarks without even engaging in argument. Now that I've returned you the favor, its paining you. . LMAO, let it pain you well, sorry piece of sh!t [img]https://media./images/74ef8826b02dc80c0b4bef0b080206d4/tenor.gif[/img]
LMAO. OP are we still talking of the burden of proof?
Shelumiel: Atheist are like animals : they do things on instinct not considering the consequences of their actions. What a pathetic life it must be to be an atheist
James 1:26 If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
XxSabrinaxX: That means he was not 100% omniscient at the time of creation, although he may be now.
I don't think so. Assuming we are following the traditional definition that God can't know the logically impossible (ex. what a 5-sided triangle looks like), omniscience is knowing all knowable propositions (rough definition I hope we can work with).
That was the point of my argument, that the set of all possible knowable things (all logically possible things) expands once beings with free will exist. God knew all possible knowledge prior to creation, and was therefore 100% omniscient. After creation, the set of knowable things expanded, as did God's knowledge along with it, remaining 100%.
XxSabrinaxX: It is the combination of omniscience and omnipotence that contradicts free will.
God's omnipotence means that he had the power to design the world such that every human would make any particular set of decisions every step of the way. By designing the world the way he did, and having the foreknowledge of every single one of the trillions of trillions of decisions that would be made based on each detail of design, god necessarily determined (and effectively decreed) every single one of those decisions that every human would make. The only way he could not have is if he temporarily restricted his own omnipotence and/or omniscience at the point of creation. There seems to be no credible theist who has provided evidence that god turned down either of those characteristics.
The contents of God's knowledge are a result of being outside of time, it is not an inherent characteristic.
To word my thesis differently: God can only know the logically possible, but that set of knowledge can expand depending on what does or does not exist. Beings with free will existing expand what God can know. God could know everything in a non-existing universe, but only if none of its inhabitants had free will.
I’m arguing that God does not know the details of things like the following:
1. What the life of an aborted baby would have been like
2. What my life would have been like if I had not gone to college
3. Which uncreated humans would have gone to Heaven or Hell (this includes rejecting the idea that God could have only created the humans that would have chosen him, and not created the ones who wouldn’t)
God has many characteristics, some of which are love, morality, and logic. Independent of everything else, God is loving, moral, and logical. We don’t have to exist for these things to be attributed to God, they are simply a part of him. But if free will does exist, the contents of God’s knowledge do not fit the definition of “characteristic” I laid out above. In order for God to know something, the conditions for it being possible to know must exist. God only has his current knowledge as a result of being outside of time (of an existing universe).
Assuming we have free will, a being with free will is (at least partially) responsible for the outcome of a choice. If said being does not exist to “play their part” in deciding an outcome, the outcome cannot be known for certain. It would not be logically possible to know an outcome that cannot be known. I think that definition dictates my point already, but we can still use another example to explain it:
Let’s say any outcome C is the result of 3 factors: G, which is genetics, E, which are events an individual experiences, and F, the free will an individual has (G + E + F = C). If we say that God can know C even if the individual does not exist (therefore F not existing either), this means free will is negligible and is indistinguishable with free will not existing. G + E + F = C = G + E means F is zero. God can know all possible combinations of G and E, but if F does not exist, C cannot be known.
The only verse that seems to relate to this stance is Psalm 147:5, which states God’s knowledge is “infinite.” Other verses translate it as “no limit” or “beyond measure.” However, this verse is part of a poem and I think could be taken as a hyperbole. Similarly, a few verses later in Psalm 147:13, has God literally strengthened bars, or is this a metaphor for protection? In my opinion, this verse doesn’t seem to pose a problem to my argument any more than it would for the argument that God can’t know the logically impossible.
I don’t really think this stance is an issue for God’s immense knowledge in most cases. He still knows everything that happens in our universe and knows our hearts. It simply means he can’t know which people will choose or reject them unless they actually exist to do so. It does not change the fact that he knows our future, since he is still outside of time. The contents of God's knowledge are not an inherent characteristic of God.
I honestly believe that God does not know, prior to creation, every decision that will be made in a universe with a given set of parameters.
To the best of my understanding, this incorporates free will, omniscience, and omnipotence without a contradiction in logic or from scripture. Though I'm definitely open to criticism.
You cause what God knows based on your choices, because God can’t know what you do unless you do it. You aren’t restricted by what God knows, God’s knowledge is restricted by what you do. It is logically fallacious to say God knowing something negates the possibility of choice, this commits the modal logic fallacy. He only knows the things you do because you do them, and him knowing does not negate choice. This isn’t some apologetics hand-waving to justify beliefs, this is proven logic by unbiased sources.
963AvatarSpirit: Let 'US' make man in 'OUR' image. Does that sound like ONE 'God' ? It was written as Elohim in ancient language and Elohim is the plural of Eloha, so Elohim means 'those who from the sky (heavens) came. Note the word 'those.....' it points once again that the Bible was right there.
So, the people who created us were Humans, if it sounds better to call them humanoid ETs or Aliens, then better. We are their hybrids, and it is a real world out there. When you sleep on your bed, this night, your consciousness shifts into the other side, and you are one of them, you become 'One of the Gods'. As above so below. There is no side call bad demons and good angels, there is no division, you can be bad sometimes and do good some other time, it is also true on other planets that these Gods or Advanced Human Beings live.
In essence, the theory of One God is wrong. Very wrong. The system does not require One fixed God, except appointed ones, which means the position of an Almighty God is won through merit, and that is why we are going through this human experience, to grow our Soul from Human State to the higher vibrations.
Ignore Religions, they lie a lot. The Holy Books have truths all mixed up.
Meditate and connect to the divine, that is all you need.
Am not saying i believe it, but i find this idea interesting.
Nairalanders, list your favorite foreign gospel artists here and your best songs from said artists. Mine are:
Michael W Smith- I See You, Ancient Words, Great Is The Lord, Open The Eyes Of My Heart Don Moen - Give Thanks, Be Magnified, God Will Make A Way Amy Grant - Thy Word, El Shaddai Lenny LeBlanc - Pure In Heart, There Is None Like You, Above All, Let Me Be A Shadow Ron Kenoly - Jesus Is Alive, For The Lord Is Good, Ancient Of Days, Whose Report Will You Believe Kent Henry - I Have Loved You, Awesome In This Place, I Will Enter His Gates, Lead Me To The Rock Graham Kendrick - Shine Jesus Shine, 7 Reasons To Celebrate, Knowing You, Amazing Love Paul Wilbur - For Your Name Is Holy, I Was Glad, Prepare Ye The Way
In fact, anything from the 90s Hosanna!/Integrity era
Check out this hilarious video of this young man getting severely embarrased by a woman after getting caught masturbating in public. This woman had literally ZERO chill. The reaction of the people on the train in the end is priceless