₦airaland Forum

Women and Men were never created the same and can never be the same irrespective of feminism.

Lets take a practical look at this with one issue as a case in point.

Feminists think that women can be sexually indiscreet as Men. im not going to argue that because im against societies double standards. But speaking from nature's viewpoints a man can have 10,000 kids but a woman can't. Infact a man can decide to have a whole city of full his blood kids while a feminist can't. For example i can decide to have hundreds of Sages Grin Cheesy runinig around town and no matter what equality a feminist seeks she can't do that. This is not sexism or chauvinistic, its nature.

There are certain things that women cannot fully comprehend as regards certain attitudes of Men.

again: definition of feminism is the belief in social, financial and political equality of the sexes.
there is no mention about biological equality.
'cause that's like saying blacks and whites should share the same skin color which is impossible.

we've increasingly gained our rights to vote, employment, access to politics, arts, spheres outside of the domestic, finance, influence, confidence, education, to be heard and plenty more stuff.
we are still going further (HILLARY '08)

yeah we can't be equal but the gap is closing every day

again, feminism is not about women growing joysticks. lol
it's more like the black civil rights to equality (only that feminists consists mainly of white women) black females aren't called double minority for nothing. lol

Most ancient societies needed a secure environment for the perpetuation of the species,a system of rules to handle the granting of property rights, and the protection of bloodlines. The institution of marriage handled these needs. For instance, ancient Hebrew law required a man to become the husband of a deceased brother's widow.

Some varieties of marriage are
# polygamy
# polygyny
# polyandry
# endogamy
# exogamy
# common law marriage
# monogamy

Different periods of time and different cultures have very different histories when it comes to women. Ancient Egypt, in theory, gave women equal rights, but it wasn't always practiced.

Throughout history, and even today, families arranged marriages for couples. The people involved didn't and don't have much to say about the decision. Most couples didn't marry because they were in love but for economic liasons.

ome marriages were by proxy, some involved a dowry (bride's family giving money or presents to the groom or his family), some required a bride price (the groom or his family giving money or a present to the bride's family), few had any sort of courtship or dating, but most had traditions.

One nearly universal tradition is that of the engagement ring. This custom can be dated back to the ancient Romans. It is believed that the roundness of the ring represents eternity. Therefore, the wearing of wedding rings symbolizes a union that is to last forever. It was once thought that a vein or nerve ran directly from the "ring" finger of the left hand to the heart.

The notion of marriage as a sacrament and not just a contract can be traced St. Paul who compared the relationship of a husband and wife to that of Christ and his church (Eph. v, 23-32).

Joseph Campbell, in the Power of Myth, mentions that the Twelfth century troubadours were the first ones who thought of courtly love in the same way we do now. The whole notion of romance apparently didn't exist until medieval times, and the troubadours.

The statement of Pope Nicholas I in which he declared in 866, "If the consent be lacking in a marriage, all other celebrations, even should the union be consummated, are rendered void", shows the importance of a couple's consent to marriage. It has remained an important part of church teaching through the years.

There appeared to be many marriages taking place without witness or ceremony in the 1500's. The Council of Trent was so disturbed by this, that they decreed in 1563 that marriages should be celebrated in the presence of a priest and at least two witnesses. Marriage took on a new role of saving men and women from being sinful, and of procreation. Love wasn't a necessary ingredient for marriage during this era.


Years later, the Puritans viewed marriage as a very blessed relationship that gave marital partners an opportunity to not only love, but also to forgive.

Many people hold the view that regardless of how people enter into matrimony, marriage is a bond between two people that involves responsibility and legalities, as well as commitment and challenge. That concept of marriage hasn't changed through the ages.
[url=http://
marriage.about.com/cs/generalhistory/a/marriagehistory.htm]
marriage.about.com/cs/generalhistory/a/marriagehistory.htm[/url]


It is very hard to be able to establish a true date on the first marriages although the Old Testament in the Bible does mention a little about marriage as it was considered a family and household affair. The oldest male relative was the caretaker of the girls and the prospective husband would ask the father for the girl after first bringing him gifts to win his approval. The mother was dominated by the father and had no choice in the matter. The father would transfer the daughter to the prospective husband in public as this showed that he approved this transfer and that the groom had the father's approval. After this transfer the bride and groom ate a meal together with the families and then the groom took the bride home. In the Old Testament of the Bible there is no mention of a formal exchange of vows or of a preacher or priest being present at this union.

In the time of the Roman Empire (17 B.C.- A.D. 476) the lower classes who became Christians later had common law or free marriages. The father would deliver the bride and the agreement of the two was called a consensus to wed. Then eventually as Christianity spread the church interpreted a "free" marriage as a conscience marriage. This agreement meant that each partner was to keep the marriage vows and the marriage intact.

There were Romans who were very wealthy who would sign documents consisting of listing property rights and letting all know that they wanted this union to be legalized and not to be thought of as a common law marriage. Thus this began the official recording of marriages as we do today. Roman men could dissolve the marriage any time as it was a male privilege, not one accorded to females.

In A.D. 527-565 during the rein of Justinian lawyers drew up laws called the Justinian Code and this was a regulation of their daily life including marriage. Up until the time of the Justinian Code just saying you were married was enough.

Until the ninth century marriages were not church involved. Up until the twelfth century there were blessings and prayers during the ceremony and the couple would offer their own prayers. Then priests asked that an agreement be made in their presence. Then religion was added to the ceremony.

English weddings in the thirteenth century among the upper class became religious events but the church only blessed the marriage and did not want a legal commitment. In 1563 the Council of Trent required that Catholic marriages be celebrated at a Catholic church by a priest and before two witnesses. By the eighteenth century the wedding was a religious event in all countries of Europe.

In Colonial times in North America the customs of the old countries were followed. There were some who only wanted a civil ceremony and not a religious ceremony. The Colonists who wanted civil marriages passed laws to this effect.

Civil magistrates would perform marriage ceremonies and they would even include prayers in the ceremony.

Viriginia was a colony that stayed with the customs of the church and did not permit anyone to have a civil marriage ceremony as they followed the Church of England. By the end of the eighteenth century both religious and civil marriage ceremonies were legal in American.

In European countries today, civil marriage ceremonies are legal as in America. Even in England, the couple can choose to have either a religious or civil ceremony.

http://ks.essortment.com/historyofmarri_rimr.htm

i know right. men are supposed to be the "head" of the home. but the women are responsible when the home gets broken. lol

by the way, let's be clear.

what's is your definition for feminism?
yours seem to be a dirty woman who likes broken homes.

that's not my definition (people who belief in social, economic and political equality for sexes).

Donzman:
I don't feel threatened, just feel sorry for future kids who will grow up in increasingly broken homes, it's a pity.

do you realize that there are men who do avocate and not opposed to equal rights for women?
not all men are like you, you know.

liberals are hot

anyways, single parent families are increasingly gaining accorded respect.

Donzman:
I wonder who instilled the rubbish belief in your mind that marriage was meant as security for women. No wonder you people go at this blindly, it's about the KIDS first and foremost. Dads work and sweat it out, to take care of the kids.

you clearly don't know the history of marriage.
anyways, in today's world, women are also sweating it out to take care of themselves and their kids.

donzman, you're talking about dirty, lazy people. or have you also bought into the anti-feminism media propaganda?


I love feminists. 'cause they got me the right to vote.
i also read books and get inspired by plenty of them.
If you listen to onyeka onwenu, you listen to a feminist.

no need to feel threatened lol we're not coming to bite you

@haters, keep sipping on the haterade.
none of you got nothing on me

liberal guys, gals are ultra hot.
there's a reason why women and ethnic minorities tend more to vote democrat.
i'm going to be a civil rights lawyer myself, so davidylan, your wife might be coming to me for domestic violence help.

Donzman:
The woman who is married and refuses to cook is nothing but a lazy woman, she should also get a life. Why will I seriously date a woman who believes she shouldn't cook?

this has nothing to do with feminism
feminism =/= lazy.

tell him to go to bed already.

anyways, the guy from saturn. the intellectual liberal. . . there are plenty of them, obama is one
those skinny nerdy guys are hot!!

That's true. i'm off.
no more arguments with davidylan. always pointless because he doesn't ever know what he's talking about. always needing me to explain to him. and asking irrelevant questions to change the topic:

from feminism to what the benefit of PDP party is. nice one david. lmao

ok. aurevoir


FEMINISM DOES ROCK MY SOCKS.

if your aunt is a lawyer but a doormat to her husband, maybe she loves being a doormat.
not all women love being a doormat and the ones who don't get out of the marriage while the ignorant or ones that enjoy it stays.
that's why i say it's all about choice. women should be able to make a choice. stay or leave.

enjoy your ignorant village girl
seriously. marriage is about compatibility right? if she likes it and you like it, i'm sure you'll have a wonderful married life

What has being in 2020 got to do with gender roles in marriage? Keep living in your fantasy feminism island. When you get married please give your husband a dictionary to learn the meaning of feminism. Oh sorry i forgot you were going to marry a "liberal", my bad!

gender role in marriage is different now. women are becoming more financially stable and the main reason the marriage institution started was to provide financial stability for the "wives"
women's jobs then was also to cater for the domestic shere. today, any woman that decides to stay a housewife (esp in the west) will only get fat off from watching too much tv. theres washing machines, dishwashers, buy your clothes (not make them), kids go to school e.t.c.
all all the other things that really can't be compared any more. gender roles is fast changing in general. of course it's going to affect marriages too.

marriage now is about "love" and whatever the couples idealize it to be "happiness" "bliss" "simple, short arguments" "love, love love"
i read this in newsweek a while ago.

why do you think arranged marriages in many countries (not based on love) work so well?
with all the business transactions between the parent-in- laws.

yup. an intellectual liberal. (my dream guy). he wouldn't need a dictionary. he'll have studied feminism in school or at least know the meaning (unlike some ignorant warts who equate feminism with man-hating. lol).

again, you're destined for an ignorant village girl.
your co-piliot sub-pilot

well, we're in 2007. get a dictionary and look up the definition of feminism. if any woman believes she has equal rights to economic, social or political equality as men, she's a feminist.

I'm a feminist by this definition. and cool to be one too.

and I thank those feminists (ladies and men, if there were any. lol) that advocated and won the right for women to vote.
even those who have paved the way for breakthroughs in women advancement in society.


we produce majority of food but own only 1% of the farmland. we make up half of the world but make up 75% of the poorest (this is globally. situation is a whole lot better in the west) we still got a long way to go.

yeah i've had a boyfriend and there was no definite "leading" male role. sorry.
maybe he was a sissy for not being able to control me and push me around?

if only you can state what the definite "leading" role is. i doubt there is such thing if the wife is educated and financially stable, knows her rights.

Who decides who is the better leader here? Do the husband and wife sit down together to decide who shld be the leader? Women are more than willing to concede the "male role" during dating and then suddenly expect to be the "leader" once they are married. what hypocrisy.

what exactly is the "male role" in dating?
what is "male role" in marriage?

your dad heads the house. how does he head?
he decides what your mom does with her money?

what exactly is the male "heading" role?

That is why a man is head of the home, not because that is a license to become a dictator but he is given that role to serve as the leader, the voice and the one on whose shoulders rest the responsibility for the entire family. The role of a woman is synonymous to that of the co-pilot, he does not fight the pilot for the controls of the aircraft, rather he is there to assist the pilot and to ensure that in the event of an accident to the pilot, he can always take over

Did i infer that leadership is primarily based on sex at one point?

don't contradict yourself now.


anyways,
marriage is not an airplane or a car. ok.
it's more like a problem where it takes two heads to work it out.

and not because one is male or female.
ie. pilot should be male while co-pilot should be female (it's more about experience and skill. the co-pilot will later become a pilot after years of experience or can remain as a co-pilot if that's what he/she is satisfied with)

you keep failing to create a reasonable logic out of why males should lead. lol

Since children will generally outlive their parents, why don't you let children be the leaders of the family too?

they're going to have their families. too
while the widow will be wishing she had gotten a job and taken control of her live while she was married.

i will be getting married to a liberal thank you (maybe a younger, clean version of obama. j/k)
you obviously are destined for an ignorant village girl.

I am living in the real world.
i can't stand when people say "experience the real world" when everywhere is the real world.
real world is everyay, everywhere. even prison is real world.


@davidylan, what does "head" in the family mean anyways?
what is the husband's role as the head?
what will they control or lead.
do the husband decide where the tv station will stay if the couple have differences on the tv station they want? (or isn't it the person who has the remote at the time?)
will the husband decide what his wife will wear? (isn't it the woman who decides for herself?)
will the husband decide how they will raise their kids? (don't they both raise the kids together. with each parent doing his/her thing or they coming together to agree on how they'll want it?)


how exactly does a husband "lead" the marriage.
people say they're physically stronger. well, but what has that got to do with marriage? does the strenght represent who can beat/ threaten who better? domestic violence is against the law so what is the use of this physical strenght in marriage? it's not like your "physically stronger" husband will protect your from robbers or save your life or something.
you still haven't told me why female higher mortality is irrelevant in marriage. they become widows you know? then who takes charge of the household?
get my point? if they're able to do it when the husband's gone, what's the reason why she can't do it when he's there?

In my family, my mom leads pretty much everything in the house except finances and that's because my dad makes more yeah they argue a lot but they are on talking terms like 2 min. later.


how exactly is the man "leading"?

Marriage is idealized by those who know very little about how it works.

there is no "one way" to how marriage works.

marriage today is different from marriage 50 or 100 or 200 or 400 years ago.

If 200 years ago, marriage was all about the wife moving in with the husband for her to take care of him and for him to provide for her, well, today, women can provide for themselves and need care just as men need care.

If your idea of marriage is that of 200 years ago where the husband controls the helpless wife, then your marriage is doomed to fail unless your wife is from the village and uneducated.


by idealized, i'm talking about the whole "love". stuff fades and then they start noticing their diferences and part ways. usually they learn their lessons in the second marriage (or not).
it has nothing to do with feminism (belief in political, economical and social equality for the sexes)

unless of course the "wife" in the doomed marriage enjoys staying.


men also file for divorce, you know that davidylan?
i guess divorce is always the wife's fault. she's responsible for the marriage even though she's not the "head". lmao

davidylan:
Not anymore. Boredom must count as the #1 reason for divorce these days. Anything is now an excuse to get a divorce these days, so long as you term it "irreconciliable differences"

is this a fact or just your opinion/ attempt at humor?
where is the factual basis for the "reason"
what i presented was a fact.

again, don't cheat, if you don't want to get dumped.

and how has this got to do with feminism anyways?

A man and wife are equal partners with equal respect, love and mutual understanding and a huge dose of compromise. But as with all things in life, there must be a leader.

not really. "leader"is determnined by other things than "sex"
charisma, age, background, wealth (who makes more), personality (agressive vs passive). etc determine who has more influence on decisions in partnership.
that's why women who make more money than men have a hard time with their marriage. the men won't accept the fact that they are financially inferior and therefore less influential in other decisions. they'r used to the status quo of men being the head.

what if the wife is a better leader than the husband? what if she has more charisma
\many of people who get divorces aren't feminists. they are just women who it isn't in their nature to be stepped upon.

that's why you need to know your partner before getting married. it all has to do with personalities. some people are more passive than others. there are several working relationships where women are the strong force of the household even though the men carry this exterior facet of being the "head" because of what the status quo expects.

you can't force a person to be submissive unless she/he agrees to or is threatened.
the african american slaves didn't want to be slaves. they took their positions as part of the status quo and most didn't complain about it even though they hated it. you were killed or hanged if you protested.

just as many nigerians endure marriage because getting divorce is a social taboo. the wife always will bear the consequence and not the husband. talk about inequality.

Without doubt, men have a certain mental toughness that women don't have. It does not however apply to all. If women and men differ physically, why is it hard to admit that they may differ mentally and emotionally?

can you elaborate on what you mean by "mental toughness" you mean men are better at making decisions or are more intelligent?
or are you confuing physical with mental?

what about women live longer than men. why is this insignificant in marriage?

if women are more better at dealing with the emotions (i disagree with this notion), isn't marriage about love? why are men the head of marriage if women are better at the matters of "love"? are you confusing the marriage institution of the past (which wasn't based on love) with modern marriage?

@davidylan, cheating is the #1 reason for divorce not feminism.
just because your wife divorced you 'cause your a cheater don't make her a feminist. she probably was just real mad and can't stay no longer.
get a new wife and move on -don't cheat again.

but then again, marriage is idealized now and many of the things people hope and look foward to in marriage end up not transpiring so they become fed up and opt out.
again, this has nothing to do with feminism.

@neelsel, feminism definately boosts marriages.I agree with you.

i'd rather eat than use a smiley in this post

thank you j-girl.
a lot of men do feel threatned by feminism. If you're used to being at that leader position for too long. why would you want to step down to equal level?
only a dumb woman will stay stuck in a marriage where she's constantly terrorized and abused when she knows she can get out of it.
actually, a lot of women turn feminist only after they get a divorce. they usually aren't feminists when they get into it.

it's so stupid, the result of demeaning propaganda. a guy who hates feminists must be dumb enough to marry one in the first place and blame the divorce on her. you want to beat your wife, and shove her around, marry someone who enjoys it.
dumbest theory i've ever heard.

the majority of feminists are married and mothers. they should be distinguished from radicals.

Donzman was saying stuff about how men should be authority in marriage because they're bigger?
well, he refused to answer for the skinny men or short men. on what basis should they be authority?

@Davidylan
so from your post, i can conclude that:
you believe women and men have equal rights in Nigeria compared to their western counterparts.
way to go!!! lmao
only a dummy will argue this with you

so, what's your opinion about marriage?
should man and wife be equal partners, with equal respect and mutual understanding?
or man should be the authoritarian and woman - the feeble follower
(as in employer and employess. rather than co-partners lol)


you didn't answer my question on what your definition for feminism is. you seemed to have a skewed definition on what it is.

according to Donzman, men have better mental capabilities. do you agree with this statement? (according to some whites, blacks have low mental capability -do you see the correlation?)

men's physical ability is used by Donzman as the basis for the reason they should head the marriage.
but women live longer than men. why is this insignificant?

_{abuja2014. mo n wa awon supporters. se lewa ma join egbe awon supporters?}

omoge:
I have a friend, she is from another african country. Told me she does not want to marry and I asked why?
She said because African man expect you to do so many things and she just can't because she is a Feminist.
she has a Master degree in her field and in early 30s, hooked up with an oyinbo broke up because that one too
complains that she is in the house and he is eating bread and pnut for dinner. she asked him, did i not tell you I'm a Feminist? why should
you expect me to cook you dinner?

Oh well, some people are just hardcore Feminist. I support the idea of equal partner, respect and mutual understanding.
Feminism, I can be the one I can describe for myself.

thank you!!
yeah, i'll quote TOH again. lol. "there's a difference between feminists and femi-nazis"
cracks me up everytime.

media and propaganda have distorted what it means to be a feminists so much now that people (who aren't educated on the true definition) believe it to be synonymous with "man-hating"

davidylan:

Madam wesley o!!

Can you please cite an authentic statistical data that supports your careless statement? Is there a discriminatory policy in place in Nigeria that specifically states that preference be given to men in terms of employment?
Are Nigerian women complaining of discrimination in terms of employment opportunities?

It wasn't a careless statement. It most definitely is a FACT that women in Nigeria compared to western countries have less employment opportunities (in ratio to men who do)
of course most aren't complaining about it. even though there are those few like Onyeka Omwenu ( a feminist i admire) but most don't have a clue. aren't even educated on it. they believe they're inferior to men.

Again, is there an INEC policy that bars women from voting?

No. can you answer why women in Nigeria aren't voting even though they're allowed to? (hint: "POLITICS IS MENS BUSINESS"

LMAO! Are you comparing the GOP and democratic party in the USA to PDP, AC in Nigeria?
What are the benefits tied to voting for the PDP in Nigeria?

see what i mean by deviating from topic?

comparison between american parties and nigerian ones. hmm.

benefits of voting PDP. hmm let me see . . .

davidylan:
Dont tie yourself up into a knot. No one said such a thing. Infact my mom and aunts are full time career women! My mom works at least 12 hrs a day till tomorrow so what's your point? Who said women shld go and sit in the kitchen?

are you going to be the employer when you get married (if you're not) and your wife the employee. lmao.
hope you don't pay her minimum wages. At least things have progressed a little. wives are no longer property, it's now employee.
just kidding.


so how are you anti-feminist. if you have full career women all around you?
feminism is all about equal opportunities.
what part of equal opportunity do you not agree with

i think we're getting to a point.

My school principal and Vice principals for JSS 1 - 3 were female and i knew them personally.

oh. now you can use this info to support yourself, huh.

I thought women's job was in her kitchen and not in leading/ controlling institutions, businesses and corporations

Since when did it become a thing to celebrate that women are now teaching higher grades? Shocked
Who denied women that right?

they are celebrated because they inspire.
females are more likely to go into a field if they see other females in the field or aren't pressured negatively about it.
I can asssure you that Hillary's feat will encourage many females to pursue politics.

they did it not because they didn't have the right to do it, but because they overcame challenges.
female authors of the 17th and 18th century are also celebrated because of the extreme risk and challenge they faced in paving the way for it to be easier now for women to do the same thing.

davidylan:
Yet again you fail to provide evidence that this is due to a deliberate policy to undermine women. There are also more unemployed men in Nigeria than in developed countries, does that mean that Nigerian men are under a policy of discrimination too compared to western men?
That there are more housewives in Nigeria may not be unconnected with the near comatose state of the economy.

this made me laugh.

1. Is there a law that prohibits Nigerian women from voting? It may be interesting to note that far less men are likely to vote in Nigeria compared to men from the west.

2. Are there gender specific policies that are tied to voting? What are the "benefits and improvements" that men in Nigeria get for voting?

You like to deviate from topic by making ridiculous comments or twisting my words.

counter my points please:
1. compared to western countries, women in third world countries are more likely to be unemployed in comparison to the men that are employed. this also goes with education.


2. women in nigeria are less likely to vote than men compared to women voting ratio to men in western countries.

3. yes there specific policies tied to voting that tend to benefit specific people. policies that affect healthcare, employment affirmative action, labor (especially in third world countries like nigeria with housegirls phenomena), abortion e.t.c

that's why women in US are more likely to be recognized with the democratic party than GOP (this is a fact. look it up in google and don't bother to ask a dumb question)

i can't believe you don't know these stuff. lmao