₦airaland Forum

Donzman:
@WesleyanA

Just like there are social restrictions on what a woman can/cannot do, there are also social restricitons on what a man can/cannot be. Do you see men screaming inequality?. . .When there is a divorce, the woman will most likely get the kids 99% of the time, do you see men screaming injustice?

of course men aren't screaming equality. why should they be when they dominate society?


yeah women get the kids 99% of the time because the men never want to take care of kids. It's always the woman's job to get the kids.

a lot of men who want to get the kid will ultimately hand the kid to the care of his new wife or some other woman anyway.


fathersright.com
familiesneeddad.com
dadwanthischild.com
men'srights.com

what do you think these websites are for?
It shows that women are making progress!!!


IMO, whoever has been primarily taking care of the kid before the divorce gets the right to keep the kid.

lola baloo:
i wont mind garri, groundnut and cold water anytime anyday

lol

may his soul rest in perfect peace.
I used to watch his show n kan be
how old was he?

being a feminist doesn't mean one works all day and night for women's cause.

a feminist is merely a person who believe in equal opportunity of the sexes. If a female believes in this, she's more likely to challenge the status quo.
I would say Hillary Clinton is a feminist.

and again, it's all about choice. some women are satisfied where they are.
while others are not.

a woman who lovessss to cook and impress guys is more likely not to be a feminist than a woman who loves to read or lead or play sports.
but shouldn't it be possible for women to do whatever they want to do without social restrictions on what "their place" ought to be.

kobesosimi:
Depends on your interpretation or misinterpretation of the classification. take for example all "men" are created equal, this means all persons are created equal, the "men" was a substitute for humans. With that said, that scope does not apply to all theories/sayings. You cannot see a man and call him a woman, and vice versa - that's where the distinction takes effect

you are misinterpreting what "equality" of sexes means.

ok. all men are created equal. yes but are all men created equal in reality? no. some are born to be succesful while others are born wretched. some have more opportunity than others while others have less opportunities. some are born with physical or mental advantage. e.t.c

"all men are created equal" the phrase was used in the political sense to mean that every man has an equal stake in the "unalienable rights" which are liberty, life and the pursuit of happiness. whether rich or poor, strong or weak, all men have the same natural rights in the new democracy.

you know that this "all men are equal" wasn't made to include neither blacks nor women. these two underpriviledged groups didn't hold much stake in the new democracy.

again, feminists seek political, economic and social equality. this is achievable (and the proove is the contrast between the situation of women in the western and advanced countries vs women in third world and islam nations).


all men are created equal. but will you see a black man and call him a white man? NO but is it possible that they can have political, economic and social equality YES.

you say you're against gender-based oppression? well, both sexes have to be on an equal level in other for it to be less likely that one will be able to dominate the other.

nairaland ad:
women make up half of the globe but make up 75% of poor people
women do most of the farm work but only 1% are farm owners

ThiefOfHearts:
Rock's wife also divorced his cheating ass last year.

Next!

he clearly isn't over it yet.

kaecy5:
well wesley

if need be i would fly them over to ninja and flog the living day light off them and put them back in plane to US

lmao. i've been threatened like that before. that's evil

ok
is it just me or i think some kids are just naturally "good" kids and some are just naturally "bad" kids (as in well behaved e.t.c)
i know some reall strict parents but their kids still turn out
and some parents who spoil their kids but they're still nice and all.

the only good reason for in-laws relatives to live with couples is 'cause the kids will learn the language fast
esp if they live in the west. other than that some of them spoil the kids.

i know these two kids. they speak fluent yoruba OMG. but they're spoilt.
their granny stays with them while the parents are at work.

nice article i found. It's balaced because there are arguments from the male and female perspective.

http://www.forbes.com/home/2006/08/23/Marriage-Careers-Divorce_cx_mn_land.html

lol. it's sorta funny.
read it or i'll . . .

Forbes.com published a story Aug. 22 by editor Michael Noer on two-career relationships that provoked a heated response from both outside and inside our building. Elizabeth Corcoran, a member of our Silicon Valley bureau and principal author of the magazine's current cover story on robots, sent in this rebuttal. Here's a link for reader discussion.

Point: Don't Marry Career Women
By Michael Noer
How do women, careers and marriage mix? Not well, say social scientists.

Guys: a word of advice. Marry pretty women or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Blondes or brunettes. Just, whatever you do, don't marry a woman with a career.

Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional women are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat and less likely to have children. And if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it. A recent study in Social Forces, a research journal, found that women--even those with a "feminist" outlook--are happier when their husband is the primary breadwinner.

Not a happy conclusion, especially given that many men, particularly successful men, are attracted to women with similar goals and aspirations. And why not? After all, your typical career girl is well educated, ambitious, informed and engaged. All seemingly good things, right? Sure … at least until you get married. Then, to put it bluntly, the more successful she is, the more likely she is to grow dissatisfied with you. Sound familiar?

Many factors contribute to a stable marriage, including the marital status of your spouse's parents (folks with divorced parents are significantly more likely to get divorced themselves), age at first marriage, race, religious beliefs and socio-economic status. And, of course, many working women are indeed happily and fruitfully married--it's just that they are less likely to be so than nonworking women. And that, statistically speaking, is the rub.

To be clear, we're not talking about a high school dropout minding a cash register. For our purposes, a "career girl" has a university-level (or higher) education, works more than 35 hours a week outside the home and makes more than $30,000 a year.

If a host of studies are to be believed, marrying these women is asking for trouble. If they quit their jobs and stay home with the kids, they will be unhappy ( Journal of Marriage and Family, 2003). They will be unhappy if they make more money than you do ( Social Forces, 2006). You will be unhappy if they make more money than you do ( Journal of Marriage and Family, 2001). You will be more likely to fall ill ( American Journal of Sociology). Even your house will be dirtier ( Institute for Social Research).

Why? Well, despite the fact that the link between work, women and divorce rates is complex and controversial, much of the reasoning is based on a lot of economic theory and a bit of common sense. In classic economics, a marriage is, at least in part, an exercise in labor specialization. Traditionally, men have tended to do "market" or paid work outside the home, and women have tended to do "nonmarket" or household work, including raising children. All of the work must get done by somebody, and this pairing, regardless of who is in the home and who is outside the home, accomplishes that goal. Nobel laureate Gary S. Becker argued that when the labor specialization in a marriage decreases--if, for example, both spouses have careers--the overall value of the marriage is lower for both partners because less of the total needed work is getting done, making life harder for both partners and divorce more likely. And, indeed, empirical studies have concluded just that.

In 2004, John H. Johnson examined data from the Survey of Income and Program Participation and concluded that gender has a significant influence on the relationship between work hours and increases in the probability of divorce. Women's work hours consistently increase divorce, whereas increases in men's work hours often have no statistical effect. "I also find that the incidence in divorce is far higher in couples where both spouses are working than in couples where only one spouse is employed," Johnson says. A few other studies, which have focused on employment (as opposed to working hours), have concluded that working outside the home actually increases marital stability, at least when the marriage is a happy one. But even in these studies, wives' employment does correlate positively to divorce rates, when the marriage is of "low marital quality."

The other reason a career can hurt a marriage will be obvious to anyone who has seen his or her mate run off with a co-worker: When your spouse works outside the home, chances increase that he or she will meet someone more likable than you. "The work environment provides a host of potential partners," researcher Adrian J. Blow reported in The Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, "and individuals frequently find themselves spending a great deal of time with these individuals."

There's more: According to a wide-ranging review of the published literature, highly educated people are more likely to have had extramarital sex (those with graduate degrees are 1.75 times more likely to have cheated than those with high school diplomas). Additionally, individuals who earn more than $30,000 a year are more likely to cheat.

And if the cheating leads to divorce, you're really in trouble. Divorce has been positively correlated with higher rates of alcoholism, clinical depression and suicide. Other studies have associated divorce with increased rates of cancer, stroke, and sexually transmitted disease. Plus, divorce is financially devastating. According to one recent study on "Marriage and Divorce's Impact on Wealth," published in The Journal of Sociology, divorced people see their overall net worth drop an average of 77%.

So why not just stay single? Because, academically speaking, a solid marriage has a host of benefits beyond just individual "happiness." There are broader social and health implications as well. According to a 2004 paper titled "What Do Social Scientists Know About the Benefits of Marriage?," marriage is positively associated with "better outcomes for children under most circumstances" and higher earnings for adult men, and "being married and being in a satisfying marriage are positively associated with health and negatively associated with mortality." In other words, a good marriage is associated with a higher income, a longer, healthier life and better-adjusted kids.

A word of caution, though: As with any social scientific study, it's important not to confuse correlation with causation. In other words, just because married folks are healthier than single people, it doesn't mean that marriage is causing the health gains. It could just be that healthier people are more likely to be married.


Counterpoint: Don't Marry A Lazy Man
By Elizabeth Corcoran
Studies aside, modern marriage is a two-way street. Men should own up to their responsibilities, too.

Girlfriends: a word of advice. Ask your man the following question: When was the last time you learned something useful, either at home or work?

If the last new skill your guy learned was how to tie his shoes in the second grade, dump him. If he can pick up new ideas faster than your puppy, you've got a winner.

I'm not usually a fan of dipstick tests, particularly when it comes to marriage and relationships. But a downright frightening story written by my colleague, Michael Noer, on our Web site today drove me to it. According to the experts cited by Michael, marrying a "career girl" seems to lead to a fate worse than tangling with a hungry cougar.

OK, call me a cougar. I've been working since the day I graduated from college 20-odd years ago. I have two grade-school-aged children. Work definitely takes up more than 35 hours a week for me. Thankfully, I do seem to make more than $30,000. All of which, according to Michael, should make me a wretched wife.

In spite of those dangerous statistics, my husband and I are about to celebrate our 18th wedding anniversary. You'll see us snuggling at a mountain-winery concert this month, enjoying the occasion. I don't think I'm all that unusual--so it seemed like a good time to test Michael's grim assertions.

The experts cited in his story think that professional women are more likely to get divorced, to cheat and to be grumpy about either having kids or not having them. But rather than rush to blame the woman, let's not overlook the other key variable: What is the guy doing?

Take, for instance, the claim that professional women are more likely to get divorced because they're more likely to meet someone in the workforce who will be "more attractive" than that old squashed-couch hubby at home.

Women have faced this kind of competition squarely for years. Say you marry your college heartthrob. Ten years later, he's working with some good-looking gals--nymphets just out of college, or the more sophisticated types who spent two years building houses in Africa before they went to Stanford Business School. What do you do? A: Stay home, whine and eat chocolate. B: Take up rock climbing, read interesting books and continue to develop that interesting personality he fell in love with in the first place.

Note to guys: Start by going to the gym. Then try some new music. Or a book. Or a movie. Keep connected to the rest of the world. You'll win--and so will your marriage.

There is, of course, the continual dilemma of who does the work around the house. But if both spouses are working, guess what? They've got enough income to hire someone else to fold laundry, mop floors, etc.

Money is a problem? Honestly, the times money has been the biggest problem for us have been when we were short of it--not when one of us is earning more than the other. When we have enough to pay the bills, have some fun and save a bit, seems like the rules of preschool should take over: Play nice, be fair and take turns.

In two-career couples, Michael frets, there's less specialization in the marriage, so supposedly the union becomes less useful to either party. Look more closely, Mike! Any long-running marriage is packed full of carefully developed--and charmingly offsetting--areas of expertise.

For us, the list starts with taxes, vacation planning and investment management. My husband likes that stuff, and it leaves me yawning. Bless him for doing it. Give me the wireless Internet system, the garden or just about any routine home repairs, and I'm suddenly the savant. Tear us apart, and we'd both be pitiful idiots trying to learn unfamiliar routines.

Michael is right that longer work hours force two-career couples to try harder to clear out blocks of family time. When we do, though, we get to enjoy a lot more. We understand each other's career jokes and frustrations. We're better sounding boards on what to do next. And at dinner parties, we actually like to be seated at the same table.

The essence of a good marriage, it seems to me, is that both people have to learn to change and keep on adapting. Children bring tons of change. Mothers encounter it first during the nine months of pregnancy, starting with changing body dimensions. But fathers have to learn to adapt, too, by learning to help care for children, to take charge of new aspects of a household, to adapt as the mothers change.

So, guys, if you're game for an exciting life, go ahead and marry a professional gal.

kaecy5:
ok wesley r u saying indirectly that feminism supports single hood and or it opposes the idea of marriage ?

just because you got a divorce doesn't mean you can't learn from your mistake and look for a more suitable husband or wife.
or stay single if that's your choice.

would you stay in an abusive relationship?

feminism doesn't oppose the idea of marriage. it opposes the idea of unhealthy marriage.

davidylan:
Go and preach your message to the uttermost parts of the world. Feminism is coming soon!

Islam has nothing to do with feminism.
Feminists sef have taken over the whole world, maybe it is time for men to start their own struggle too!

lol.

father'srights.com
dad'srights.com
men'srights.com
familiesneedfathers.com

women sure are making progress (in the west) if stuff like this are happening. lmao

adconline:
Is there any law that says that Abuja roads can not be built unless we host Common Wealth Games? Besides, i want my village to have good schools, running water, health clinics and steady power supply. If these amount to being unpatriotic, I will be unpatriotic magnified /squared

we have a real weak govt that's why. people's opinion don't mean a jack.

if you want your village to have good schools e.t.c pray for a common wealth games to be hosted in your village, otherwise, your village won't get nothing. that's how our govt is.
just kidding.

kaecy5:
should men continue in marriage to an abusive woman also ? all in the bid for feminism?

most women don't separate feminism from dictatorship because it then turns out to be i can and will

ohh womennnnnnnnn

no. get a divorce. or stay if you enjoy abuse.
same goes with women.

a feminist isn't an abusive woman. (even though media and propaganda loves to portray feminism as such)

davidylan:
Price money for wimbledon is now equal for men and women even though men play best of 5 and women play a best of 3. Feminists like Amelie Mauresmo are now happy.
There are no laws that say women must earn less than men for "doing the same job" (depends on who is looking at it), if this exists please speak to the relevant authorities.

awesome

now time to go change things in other parts of the world

how is feminism bad if it brings about progress like this? (we aren't there yet but we're getting there)

davidylan:
Good point Wes,

Once again you validate my point, it is more about differences in culture, religion, personal experiences that influence our perception of gender bias. It has little to do with a deliberate global attempt to discriminate against women.

well, feminism is about eliminating gender bias in these cultures, religions and our environment.

davidylan:
it is impossible to divorce biological events from social, economic and political consequences.
Feminism is not about men-hating, it is not about men-loving either.

you're right. biological events can play a role in these things.
and it depends on culture. in some cultures, physical strenght is given utmost significance

but not in today's world are they all that significant (at least not where i live)
Maybe in the past, women conformed because the men were physically stronger generally and all.
but today we have technological and cultural advances that enable women to be on equal level with men. it's against the law to physically harm someone and so when there's no real physical threat, the "physically stronger" rule wanes.

saying (like the greek) men should play sports because they are physically stronger. yeah it makes sense.
but today women play sports too and it makes sense (it didn't make sense before)

like simimose mentioned, we change things to suit ourselves.

In the muslim world for example, the fact that women are physically weaker might be the excuse for men to subjugate them. or that their quran said that that's how things should be. and it's perfectly normal to them.

where we live (today) on the other hand, things are different, a woman's "inherent physical weakness" won't stop her from joining a soccer or football team or running for presidency if she has strong passion for it and grew up in a nuturing environment.


There is even the stereotype that african american women are "strong" and dominating.
doesn't this go against the biological rule of women being weak?
why is it in place?
In my opinion, one of the reason is there are more black kids who grow up in homes with absent fathers and so they aren't used to the "dominating men" scenario. the commanding role falls on the mom.
there is also the pressure for african american women to be "strong" and "self-confident" (it's a survival skill, imo looking at their history and all)
the ideal however is that both parents work together equally with whoever who has the capability (whether male or female or both together) leading.


so this "impossibilty" you talk about is not really an impossibility because if it was, i won't be here posting. i'll be cooking food or something. lol

there are even several biologically advantages women have over men. they live longer (when provided equal healthcare opportunities), they give birth, smaller frame has it's advantages in several things, less susceptible to X-linked diseases, e.t.c

so, men aren't biologically superior to females if that's your point. i would say there is a balance

just my opinion.

davidylan:
Dont you think men should also be compelled to give birth in the spirit of equality too?

All these are the fault of men too?
Men indeed must be very wicked people!

feminism is not about man-hating!!
how many times do you want TOH to repeat the "feminists isn't the same as "femi-nazi"

just like the civil rights movement wasn't about white-hating. even though there were the radicals who were "white-hating"

it's called "equality" for a reason.

men can't give birth. neither can women grow joysticks. that's all biological
again the key words are "social, economic and political equality"

sisimose:
yeah you are right here wesleyana
i have to tell you many churches are telling men to treat their wives with love and respect, you know how humanbeings are, we change things to suit us, unfortunately that is where we have a problem in my religion. Still we have very loving marriages where being submissive is handled with care and respect by the man. It will shock some of you here, but that is the life many have chosen. Who are we to knock it?

You are right many cultural practices are inhumane sometimes but it is down to individuals with all things, it is down to each and how they translate it into life. Just like someone said guns don't kill people, people do! same goes for relationships and culture, it is how each person handles it.

I love you!

Donzman:
We're all equal, why can't women defend themselves against violent men?

In the western countries, you can!!

If you're a female in a marriage where your husband beats you crazy all the time, get a divorce!
this is hard in countries in africa, asia e.t.c where women who divorce their husbands are shunned by society while there is no stigma on the males.

Also, you can call the domestic violence hotlines. (there are programs to encourage women and girls to make use of this if they are being abused. and boys and men too)

there are some women who are seeking rights to be able to carry weapon against attacks/rape e.t.c. Not everyone supports this but some do.


In many islam and third world counties however, some women who get raped are beaten in public and shunned by the society.

davidylan:
You are very right! Infact in the interest of equality i vote we all carry placards to God to protest why ONLY women are allowed to give birth to children. The duty must be shared. We can't still be doing things the way our grandmothers did them in years past abi?

Seriously!!! You mean you were offended by that? No problem, from henceforth all women are allowed to go naked. It will be an offence for any man to so much as make a comment. This is the age of equality!

women give birth. true. that's why quality health care is needed.
good thing progress is being made.

Most of these are a thing of culture and religion. They have nothing to do with a deliberate global policy to keep women in subjugation.

yeah. a lot of cultures do not provide a lot of benefits to females.
not everything about a culture is good.
even the american culture now is somehow works adversely against especially teenage girls who are pressured to be skinny and pretty. they suffer from low esteem, some cut themselves and become anorexic.
especially when we have girls having Paris Hilton, britney spears as role models e.t.c

even religious. christianity of the past didn't provide women with all that much rights either (i think we discussed this)
the catholic church is one of the most conservative churches that pride themselves on keeping their traditions as it used to be in the past and we can see that while this is mostly a good thing not 100% of things about it is good.
the puritan christian is another example. they hung females like crazy then for being "witches" i wonder why "wizard" is not a common word.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar6bhinHVh4
parody of american culture that works against women.

davidylan:
errr is this part of the campaign? Even an idiot knows it is wrong to hit a woman so that is out of the question.

of course some know. but these idiots do it anyway. so it's not out of the question.
just because even an idiot knows it's wrong to steal doesn't mean the police shouldn't look out for thieves.

WesleyanA, your long diatribe is long on fervor but short on real world facts.
Okay, lets make this real simple. What exactly are these "rights" that feminists are fighting for? Perhaps we men are blind to them. Please enlighten us.

Healthcare is one of the main fronts.
It affects women the most because the rsponsibility of taking care of kids is left on their hands, plus they nurse and they need all advice and help possible.

It's like in the olden days when women will be married off at age 12 and by age 15 she had 7 kids and die of some child birth complications.
Thank God the situation is not like that anymore but women are constantly seeking policies that benefit them in the healthcare area.

Employment is another area. there is the affirmative action program in place to combat discrimination based on sex and increasingly, women are having access to jobs they would be blocked from otherwise.

Harrasment is another. someone stated something about "keep your eyes off my tits" and you said that was impossible. Well a woman has a right to be offended by stuff like that and women are fighting to get protection against harrasment especially in work places that have now rules against harrasment.

Domestic violence is another area. women and girls are still the major victims of domestic violence.

there are feminists also with the NRA is seeking to make it possible for women to carry out self-defense measures. not all feminists are for this but here are those who are

There is also the area of encouraging females to pursue their academic interests. some companies and institutions send mail to females who did well in math section of SATs to encourage them to consider male dominated careers where they are underrepresented. i've recieved mail like this but i don't know there are other outreach programs.


these are just in the US and i'm sure the third world and islamic countries have it WAY worse for women

active feminists are also interested in the Global condition of women and are doing outreach programs to empower females in muslim countries and third world countries.
some women go to Africa to do family planning programs with women and teach them stuff they never had opportunity to. some do it in south american countries.
there are increasing muslim feminists especially in the US but they are encouraging other muslim females too.

ThiefOfHearts:
I like how the same people that cry about the oppression Islam supposedly places on women are the same people bashing feminists

If I had one wish, I'd be to vomit on all of you

so true. and sad.

sisimose:
donzman you should have asked why is it not ok for a man to hit a woman back? if she hits him, surely he should hit back, since we talking equality.

but really it is wrong for anyone to be violent to another, there should be mutual respect, if a woman hits a man he should leave her and if a man hits a woman she should leave him

It's wrong for women to beat their husbands.
If you're a guy and your wife beats you, call the domestic violence hotline. your wife will be taken out of the house. it happens.

also, men who are victim of domestic violence are less likely to report it because society tells them they're sissies if they do, they're supposed to be the strong ones controlling their women.
men can be victims of rape too but they are less likely to report it because it's a shame to them that the "weak female" was able to rape them.
usually though, men are more likely to be the ones hitting their wives.
way more likley than not also, women are the victim of rape

sisimose:
very articulately put wesleyana very, i like it. It makes sense to me and i agree with some of the points you talked about there.
Can i say this without any sort of backlash? i feel the way i do about the roles we have as women and men based on two points. first my religious belief which you touched on and disagree with, that is ok after all it is a discussion.
My second point or reason is to do with my personality, upbringing and view of life. I simply think women should be women by just accepting the basics .
You touched on equality in the work place and i agree with you, i guess it is a very wide topic and would always lead to many other points. lol i will leave it here now, but i must say i am enjoying reading your views and those of David

Thanks.
There is nothing wrong with people having religious believes that place women under men.
there is nothing wrong with being a female catholic (women aren't allowed to be priests in the catholic church or have much reproductive rights i.e abortion e.t.c but there are females who don't have qualms with these rules)
there is also nothing wrong with females who want to be pastors (Pastor Bimbo Odukoya comes to mind. may her soul RIP, and many other females who have qualms with the status quo)

That's the point i was trying to carry accross to Davidylan since. It's all about personality and upbringing. some people have an unaggressive personality and do things basic and don't mind a lot of things. maybe their upbringing affected their personality or they are just naturally like that. It's fine.
There are also people who are aggressive and have passions and interests in other things that society shuns ( ie a guy who loves to cook).
women who love to play soccer , football but don't because it's not considered "womanly" in her enviromnent.

facts have proven that girls who attend an all girls school are more likely to become leaders because they have grown up in an enviromnent where girls do stuff (smith college produces many female politicians, spelman college for black females produce many black female leaders)
not that these doesn't happen in other enviromnent, it's just like it's more likely to happen in favorable enviromnents.
girls who grow up with single mothers are also likely to shun the male dominated world because they grew up in homes where women are the dominating force.


IT'S ALL ABOUT CHOICE. right for women to choose if they want to be housewives, doctors, nurse, president, nanny. whatever their respective passions are.
feminism in my opinion advocates bringing up females in right environment that cause them to have self confidence in themselves and choose the right things for themselves.

davidylan:
As for the Shahan example - stereotype and inequality are not the same thing. Chikena!

yeah the Shahan example is a real good one.
i've been taken for a guy myself when i post on certain topics. I've even gotten "go discuss tampons" comments. others were complimentary though. ok? are girls supposed to be dumb or what?

can you tell me how this sterotype started in the first place?
If it's only a stereotype and you agree that it is, WHY WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT SHAHAN WAS A FEMALE? you even gave compliments e.t.c it means that you acknowledge that women are lagging behind in intellectual an the most influential roles.
you say your sisters, aunt blah blah are professionals. SO WHY WERE YOU SURPRISED SHAHAN WAS FEMALE?
why is it that the fact that Hillary is female is constantly mentioned? Isn't it because women don't usuallly get opportunities to these influential roles as much as men? (the gap is real wide)

what's wrong with women wanting their rights? of course you'll disagree with it.
over 90% of whites disagreed with the emancipation of african american slaves also. did a lot of them know it was wrong? yes. but did they want to lose their power? NO!
some even used the bible to proove and argue that blacks were meant to be slaves.
just as people are using the bible to proove and argue that women are meant to be subjugated.

people got to unite to fight for what they want to get what they want. that's how we got our votes.
that's how women go into professional fields despite the demeaning comments they get about it (they're feminists who believe they can lead too!)
even though there are still a lot who get discouraged (feminism is about encouraging these people).


feminisim is about encouraging women to go into this fields e.t.c and for them to get better opportunities and be recognized.
I personally would be mad if i went somewhere and people say stuff like "i can't believe a black person can be smart" (another common stereotype)

yes it's a stereotype. and feminism is all about defying these stereotypes
you were happy to give me the example of your female principal weren't you?
well feminists will like to see more female principals, politicians, owners, housewives, and self confident women out there!!
they're for the advancement of women because we know that globally there's a huge gap between women an men politically, socially and economically with men far up there an women below.

there was some ad. here on NL yesterday that says that women make up over half of the world but we make up 75% of the poorest people. (can you justify this. feminism is about bringing a balance to this)
women do over half of farm work (YES THIS IS TRUE!!) but they own only 1% of farmland (feminism is about acknowledging that this is wrong and something needs to be done about it)
the condition of women are worser in third world countries where women are given less rights whether directly or indirectly.

@DONZMAN, men are physically stronger for biological reasons. it has to do with their physique and that's why they are more likely to perform manual labor jobs e.t.c
but there's no proove that they are mentally stronger than females. I don't see where being a president, full time worker, author, farmownwer (they do most of the labor anyway) require being physically strong. there are many old feeble president and farmowners.
It's just like saying whites should be priests rather than blacks because black is a color of evil.
it makes no sense. let the physically strong female play footbal if that's what she wants.
let the smart female become president if that's what she wants.
let the really skilled male go into the culinary field if that's what he wants (one of my male friends will be attending culnilary school to become a chef)
let the male do some house chores sometimes to assist the female.


the old victorian sexist times should be over by now. where women's role is just to look pretty and weak.
polygamy is now banned in many parts of the advancing world.
why close the gap a little and beg it to stop there? it aint over until things are balanced.

yeah you gave blacks freedom yeah so what? they need and demand equality too.
feminist movement and civil rights movement didn't come at about the same time for nothing.

Liberia now has her first female chief of police under sirleaf
talk about "qualified people get their opportunities" lol
she sure wouldn't have had that opportunity under a male president.

how many male presidents are actually qualified? Bush?

sirleaf has also pledged to include more women in govt. positions

. . .Because qualified women get their opportunities, your feminist rants are uncalled for. Got it now?

what have you got to say about the feminists who got us the rights to vote?
what have you got to say about the feminists who published books at the time when it was considered "unnatural"

why do you think more women side with the democratic party than republican party?
why do you think equal opportunity/ affirmative action programs were created to counter discrimination females face in the work force?

to tell you the truth, the oppressor doesn't let the oppressed go until the oppressed demands freedom. you're christian and you know about the egyptians and israel. do you think isreal left egypt because they were now qualified to get their opportunity? NO. they left by force!!

do you think blacks who fight for their rights were just given opportunities because the whites found that they qualify? lol

Sirleaf johnson first president of Liberia is herself a feminist. so i don't get your point.
there would be more females in high places if only they were encouraged rather than told that their destiny belongs in cooking good food for their husband rather than becoming what they want to become.

Donzman:
What are you talking about? . . .Obviously there are positive externalities associated with marriage, I'm talking about primary intentions. You say marriage was to provide economic security to women ( you can't tell me physical security because women have fathers and brothers). If it's all about economics, why do the Akan of Ghana, a traditionally matrilineal society (where the woman inherits her brother's wealth) get married?. . .Evolution of the institution does not answer the question because the Akan in this respect are a TRADITIONAL society. The woman is taken care of economically by the brother, why does she need to get married?. . .Answer is simple, marriage fosters a new family and environment for the growth of kids.

That's not true.
if she's taken care of economically by the brother, doesn't that make her dependent on her brother?
or do you mean the brother is dead and she inherits the wealth? well in that case, what if the brother isn't dead.
I'll try to look into more stuff about the Akan of Ghana. give me time.

of course marriage wasn't all about economics. there have been multiple several different reasons over the centuries. but we know some of these reasons differ as society changes.

Thanks to feminists, family as we know it is dying in the West atleast. Your post does not answer the question posed to you concerning the Akan of Ghana because you already know your "economic security" theory fails in that respect.

why thanks to feminists?
cheating infidelity is the # 1 reason for divorce in the west and that's as a result of the modern reason for marriage (love and intimacy).
what has this got to do with feminists?

yes feminists agree that women who are in abusive relationships should get out of it. why didn't you just agree with this a couple of posts back?

i'm not trying to evade any of your questions.
a woman inherits her brother's property in Akan culture of Ghana. That's not new. the article i posted also states that the egyptian laws of the past gave men an women equal rights (even though it wasn't enforced)
in some societies, kids get the last names from their moms
i don't know if this property law in Ghana is enforced or not. and if it is good and i'm happy for the females.

As far as i'm concerned though, females and males don't have equality of rights in Africa generally. the gap is wide.
you can always point at the female president or the akan culture (not sure if it's enforced) but generally, things aren't great.

Donzman:
In your bid to westernize everything, you have forgotten Ellen Joshson-Sirleaf of Liberia or President Arroyo of the Phillipines. These are female heads of state, Clinton won't be the first and won't be the last but ofcourse you refuse to look outside of your Western box.

I don't get you.
are you FOR or AGAINST feminism.
you guys were making the claim that america has more divorce rates because of feminism unlike in third world countries, but you're quick to claim that your teacher is female or the president of Liberia is female.

aren't this feministic principles/goals? equal opportunity for women to become whatever they want to be. whether politician or doormat, whether president or housewife.

no. instead you buy into the media propaganda of the lazy dirty woman who breaks homes portrayal of feminists.

I'm looking into the western box because here's where women rights' most extensive. women have overtaken men in rate of college education in the US.
where else in third world countries do women enjoy such rights? in nigeria where they're hundreds of housegirls per one female doctor?

i'm not saying it's perfect in the west (that's why there's still work to do) but it's considerably better.

@ Donzman, there are few cultures that give respect to females but these are few. some do on they law but the laws aren't practiced.

Why do they still marry if marriage is all about economic security for women?. . .Think!

marriage has evolved.
it's now about love and intimacy between one man and one woman an that's why there are higher divorce rates. love fades, interest dissolves.
more women are financially secure. and society provides physical security too (you only need to call 911 if your husband lay his hands on you)

How can they tell us the same motives for marriage in Hebrew culture is the same motive for marriage in Papau New Guinea, Mayan Culture, Yoruba culture, Eskimos?

well i know the yoruba culture's marriage used to be polygamy. one man with several wives. with each rotating cooking days and sex days e.t.c
the kids lived with the women who have their separate houses from the husband.
and even with the igbo culture (you've read "things fall apart" by chinua achebe i'm sure).