₦airaland Forum

Michael547:
Because that group of families of fish appeared suddenly. Which suggests that they were created but did not evolve. Right from time they have always been completely developed. No gradual development noticed by the fossil records.

But we can’t find this claim of them ring created in the fossil record because the earth is 4.6billion years, how come it appeared 50million years ago?

How come another species of Galapagos finches appeared 30years Ago?

Why are animals going extinct?
Does this mean that we had more animals then than now?

Why are fossils appearing and disappearing?

So you want to insert creation magic into science?

Michael547:
I just did a google research on the animal and found out that it is a fish not an amphibian. And that the specie belongs to the channidae family of fishes. And that they are well represented in the fossil records of at least 50 million years ago. And no record of it evolving into completely any other animal since then.

Lets assume the fossil has been dated for since 50million years?

Why Didnt it date 3.5billion years ago?

Why did it appear 50million years ago?

Michael547:
I just did a google research on the animal and found out that it is a fish not an amphibian. And that the specie belongs to the channidae family of fishes. And that they are well represented in the fossil records of at least 50 million years ago. And no record of it evolving into completely any other animal since then.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1055790310001405

Read this research on science direct

Michael547:
What is the name of this animal?

snakehead fish

T

Michael547:
So are you saying that for now there is no possible explanation of how an organism can biologically change completely into another organism? Are we believing evolution by faith too instead of practical exact explanation?

When a dice is spinning, it’s hard to say exactly where it will end, it doesn’t mean that you should accept the fact that the dice is spinning by faith.

Look at the animal below in the picture, is that animal a fish or amphibian?
That’s probably hard to call for someone who doesn’t really know the animal. This animal breath both on land and in water comfortably.
It has an organ capable of breathing water and air.
This animals evolutionary trend is very predictable because we know that this animal has always lived in the water and it’s a fish, but right now it’s adapting to live on land, it’s fins over generations are tilting towards walking on land. It’s gills are changing to something that can breath air but it’s still a fish and it will remain a fish for a long time.

However, it’s most likely going to evolve into something that specifically lives on land in many years and it might even evolve back into a solely aquatic animals depending on the environment.

How did we know this? we cannot find the fossil of this exact kind of fish in the record 10million years ago, so we know that this feature didn’t exist forever.

Michael547:
Ok thank you. So What will it take biologically for a Galapagos finch to evolve into another organism in a different family of animals? Can a finch family of birds evolve to family of apes? Is that biologically feasible?

No one can predict evolutionary progress accurately this is because the genes that survives long enough to be passed down to offsprings is determined by the environment and in a constantly changing evironment (Which is hard to predict), anything is possible with enough time. This is what we call natural selection.

The idea is mutation/recombination, variation, changing environment and time to adapt. If any species doesn’t have any of this, that species will go extinct hence the reason we find a lot of fossils of extinct species

MaxInDHouse:
Adam and Eve were the first perfect looking creatures until their descendants began moving towards different locations to experience different temperatures and atmospheric conditions.

So neither Adam nor Eve is African, American, Asian, European or Australian.

I just don't see any reason why you're disputing this simple logic yet you want me to agree that all these people came from APE.

Abeg how come we have different skin colour and languages if all were APES?

Ọmọ creation na bàbá evolution na madness!

so how did we get different Dillon colours?

Michael547:
Alright....if we both agree that fossils records show that apes came suddenly, What could have been the cause?

The cause is that Apes must have come from other closely related kind of animals that existed before them.

They didn’t come via a magic wand did they? Just as a new species of Galapagos finches didn’t come from thin air 30years ago

Michael547:
Can you kindly give more scientific explanation about the biological difference between the new specie of the galapagos finch and their previous parents specie?

Finch is a group


Are they not all still finches made up of the same biological stock?[/quote]finches is a family of birds, and not species.
If you remember in your ss1 taxonomy class in biology, living organism are classified from kingdom to phylum to class, to order, to family, to genus and finally species (we also have subspecies). A species of organism are a population of organisms that are genetically compatible to reproduce to have fertile offsprings ( e.g., lions and tigers can mate to produce offsprings, however their offspring are usually sterile hence we cannot classify them as one species, however a subspecies of lion like asiatic lion can mate with African lion to produce fertile offsprings).

Speciation is the moment in a line of evolutionary lineage where one of the offsprings can no longer mate with any of the ancestral species.

Finches is a family of bird and not a species, Just as apes are an order of primate and not a species. If one species of finch emerges, it’s still a finch in the family of finch.

However, with more and more time, this evolution progresses into the level of genus, to order, to family, to class, to phylum and kingdom. It’s why we have 7 kingdoms of living organism, it took more than 3.5billion years just to get 7 kingdoms of animals, it takes lesser to get more species

Michael547:
I get your point. But does the fact that crocodiles roamed with dinosaurs gives scientific proof that they evolved from dinosaurs? If apes are not found to be roaming with dinosaurs and have been existing for about 5 million years till today, does that not suggest that they could have come suddenly?

I didn’t say that crocodile evolved from Dinosaurs.

Yes that suggest that Apes came suddenly. Because when we go deeper down the strata, the lesser the frequency of seeing apes related fossils until you finally don’t see them all. As you screen back up, ape fossils becomes more frequently seen.

The deeper down you go, the more frequent you see Dinosaurs, if you screen back up, the lesser you see them until the disappear

In the fossil records, fossil appear and disappear at some point. The evidence we have for that is that a lot of those fossils are not longer in existence anymore.



I see that you are very open-minded, do you mind if I explain to you how geology works in relation to fossil records so you can get the clear picture?

MaxInDHouse:
Please who recorded the events 5million years and 4.6billions years ago?

You guys just think because you want to hide under science you can fool everyone!

Real SCIENCE (SENSE) made us understand that life on this planet began in less than 7,000 years so who recorded your 4.6billion years account?

who is Asian between Adam and Eve?

MaxInDHouse:
SCIENCE agreed difference in circumstances and temperature of geographical locations on this planet do affect the looks of creatures living there. So help yourself!

wjo was African between Adam and Eve.

Answer that question

Michael547:
Ok are you trying to say that mutation and variation is the same as evolution? Cause the theory of evolution teaches that changes can occur within a specific organism and completely change it to another organism. Wheareas mutation and variation do not biologically change an organism to a different one but most times changes physical properties of a kind of organism while the organism remains biologically the same. For example while we have different colours of humans, we are still biologically made up of the same stock. So which one?

Mutation and variation is the basis of evolution, it’s the driver for evolution.
That’s actual what evolution is. Without variation,the diversity we have today will be impossible and you and I won’t be here today

However, when mutation and recombination occurs over a long period of time, to an extent that the resultant species can no longer mate with the parent species, speciation occurs.

I see that you do not really understand evolution, you have the impression that evolution is when another organism becomes another, no. Evolution is the little change that occurs at every point of reproduction that is passed than to offsprings.

With time, these changes accumulate and are driven by natural selection, which then eventually may cause speciation.


Speciation: When a species can no longer mate with any of its ancestral species.

An example of recent speciation can be seen in the emergence of a new species of a Galapagos finch that can no longer mate with their existing parent species, they can only mate with themselves and they evolved into another species few decades ago.

Michael547:
I get your point. But does the fossils that are found today prove that ancient animals evolved into different kinds of animals today?

Yes it does, the reason it does is because you can find them in a specific arrangement in the strata of the earth crust, which when you date them shows that one of them comes from the other.

For example, there’s never going to be a time when you will find a fossil of an Ape where you find that of Dinosaurs, this is because Apes didn’t live with Dinosaurs. However, we have evidence that crocodiles roamed with Dinosaurs because we can find crocodile fossils in the same stratum where we find that of dinosaurs.

This gives clear indication that Crocodiles roamed this earth before apes come on board.

If you argue this then explain to me how come we always do not find Ape fossils farther than 5million years ago?
Where did Apes come from if the earth is 4.6billion years?

MaxInDHouse:
Genesis chapter 11
Explained how God confused man's language and from there people that speak the same language began moving towards the same place. As for our colour thousands of years in different locations of the earth changed people's looks but their language remains the one their ancestors first spoke at Babel!

The question is clear:
If evolution is not true then among Adam and Eve, whos Caucasian, whos Asian or African?

How did we get all these racial skin and eye color?

How did an Arabian Adam become a block Seun?

Michael547:
Can you explain better on how evolution has affected the human race starting from Adam.

Evolution is the change in gene frequency in a population of organisms.
This happens via mutations and recombination of genes, leading to variations.

If evolution is not true, how did we get racial variation as a result of change in gene frequencies From Adam and Eve?

Cos if variations and gene frequencies didn’t change and drift, everyone will look exactly like Adam and Eve or either of them or a combined exactly replica of Abel And Cain.

Without evolution, Cain and Abel will be exact same replica

TheManPregnant:
There is proof. The proof is all around you. It's really sad that you cannot recognise the proof that the spiritual exists.

In case you don't know, YOU are proof of the existence of God!


Like I said earlier, the issue is that of perception.

Show me the proof for Spirits now.

Please do

MaxInDHouse:
Anything that yields positive results is SCIENCE (SENSE) to me!

So creation is science

TheManPregnant:
It is not vague or made up. You can argue that it is subjective, but saying it is not real shows lack of perception. You do not need to see the wind to know that it is there.

You need grace to perceive spiritual things. Not everyone can understand or see the work of God in their lives.

There are physical benefits too, but these are ephemeral and are not really the main thrust of the message.

Spirits don’t exist, your religion made up. You cannot prove that it does, if you can then there’s a challenge online to do that so you can win $1m.



That been said, what are the physical benefits of being a Christian that I cannot get as an unbeliever?

1. HAPPINESS

Scandinavian countries tend to be the least religious countries of the Western world and yet are consistently ranked the highest in the polls that measure a happiness index. Many factors go into such ratings, like economics, life expectancy, healthcare, social safety nets, and the transparency of the government, but it’s hard not to notice a potential correlation between atheism and happiness.

2. INTELLIGENCE

Irreligious people tend to have higher IQs and have been shown to generally be more intelligent than religious people. Intelligent people also tend to spend more time in school, which in turn leads to greater success professionally. Many studies confirms this.

3. BETTER JOBS

This follows from the previous reason – more intelligent people tend to do better in the workplace. The same studies that have shown higher level of IQs for atheists, also equated that with getting higher-level jobs and higher pay.

4. SELF-ESTEEM & SELF-RELIANCE

These are two sides of the same coin. Irreligious people are not being told that they are guilty and sinful, as is the case with many religious teachings. This leads to higher self-esteem and a feeling of control over life’s events. As irreligious people do not expect a deity to help them solve a problem, they will address it personally and directly. The increased self-reliance can have a positive effect on their own lives, but also on the lives of others. When there’s no wheel of life, reincarnation, heaven or hell, the responsibility for made choices lies with individuals.

5. PROGRESS
Irreligious people tend to value scientific discovery more and are less likely to stand in the way of scientific progress as has often happened for religious reasons. An irreligious society is more rational and science-oriented.


6. HEALTH
Irreligious people believe more in science and would not stand in the way of medical treatments on religious grounds. While there have been studies that showed the mental and physical health benefits of being a believer, there have also been recent studies that showed no significant difference in the mental health of religious and non-religious people. In fact, it can be argued that having strong self-esteem and better economic status would make irreligion more healthy.

7. PEACEFULNESS

Irreligious people do not start wars or commit acts of terrorism for religious reasons, just to prove their deity is the correct one. On the other hand, Marxist-Leninist atheism at the core of communism has certainly given atheism a bad name, but it’s not necessarily an argument that it was atheism itself that led to the repressions and killings. There were complex historical, social and economic reasons for that. Irreligious people tend to not kill others for the sake of atheism.

8. SCEPTICISM

Irreligious people are generally skeptical and tend to look at issues from a rational, often scientific standpoint that demands proof. For an irreligious person, elements of reality are observable and can be tested.


9. SOCIAL ISSUES

Irreligious people tend to be very involved in social justice issues. They do not believe in some higher power or order that could have pre-ordained a human’s lot in life. Everything is of this material universe and can be improved upon.

10. BETTER SEX

It wouldn’t be a worthwhile list if it didn’t talk about sex. There have been studies that showed atheists having better sex lives than religious people simply due to not feeling guilty about it. Guilt about sex is certainly a strong feature of some of the world’s religions and the political discourses they generate (particularly in the US). There are also studies out that show a greater satisfaction with sex among the believers, but as it’s also not something they should really focus on and discuss (according to religious tenets), it’s hard to know where their responses are coming from.

TheManPregnant:
In honesty, You cannot measure the benefits.

The benefits are spiritual, and you simply can't apply physical laws of scale to spiritual things.

Do you think that I will be irreligious if I believed in spirit?

It’s why I don’t see your spiritual benefits as a thing. It’s vague and made up

TheManPregnant:
The core benefit of Christianity is the salvation of your soul. Please note the salvation is not a onetime thing. Consistency in specific actions is need to truly be saved

I asked for a measurable benefit?

Salvation is a claim, it cannot be ascertained to be true. If it can be measured, no one will be irreligious.

What other benefits that can be verifiable that you guys even get?

MaxInDHouse:
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

Only the Bible settled all the racial disparities among people of different nations let atheism do the same then see how reasonable people will trash that book and embrace atheism.
But if not then it's you and your cohorts that descended from APES right thinking people are descendants of humans!

okay, good so answer the question now.

What are the benefits of being a Christian?

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ that is not SCIENCE but ATHEISM!

Learn how to distinguish between the two, i love and appreciate SCIENCE but ATHEISM with EVOLUTION i detest completely!

But creation is science right?

MaxInDHouse:
Adam and Eve story is not against science but Evolution. Simple!

But theory of Evolution is science.

If Evolution is not true then how did we get Asians, Caucasians and Africans from Adam and Eve’s genes?

Between them, who was Chinese, Indian, African or European? If none, then how did we get all these races?

When I mean benefits, I mean measurable benefits and not some sort of claims that cannot be verified?

What benefits do you Christian gain that irreligious people can’t?

Can you articulate those benefits for us?

Skankamola:
You have started another crap, do you think mutations actually occur or not? The fossils remnants of giant creatures are works of demons?

You are wasting your time discussing science with maxindhouse

paxonel:
then you are yet to understand that the Adam and Eve story may have occurred in the perspective of God's time which is not necessarily the human 24 hours per day

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Meaning, you can't use the human 24 hours format for God which may had applied to creationism hence evolution

Lol, perceptive of god’s time.

Lol

MrPresident1:
The Genesis story is not literal, it is truth presented in allegory

Galatians 4:24 KJV
Which things are an allegory:

it can even be literally. The problem with allegories is that anybody can read any meaning that suit him or her to it

If the Genesis story is literally true, then evolution (and almost everything else about science) is wrong. Simple.

However, even the Catholic Pope doesn’t believe that the Adam & Eve story is literally true. http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm

And we know that microwave ovens work, mobile phones work and satellite GPS works, so not everything about science is wrong.

That leaves you with interpreting the Adam & Eve story as an allegory (for something) or as a method that the people of that time used to convey religious and cultural values.

It doesn’t make sense on any level to me, but I accept that others find meaning there.

Assume that Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth and that they were of the same race. Their continued offspring would have had to evolve into all the different ethnic people of the world and this is hard to fault because otherwise there would not be such a variety of humans around the world. That is, evolution would have had to take place for the changes to occur. If that part of evolution is accepted why not the whole of evolution from primitive life to successively more complex life? Adam was possibly a complex molecule, which had not yet triggered into life.

The Bible, Tora and Qur’an does not say this, however. God made Adam in his own image, a fully modern human being. These books are wrong.

You have to accept evolution in its entirety and not pick bits, which fit in the gaps in the story presented in the aforementioned books.

NigeriaIsGreat:
shey you go bet obingo?


If your Obi no step down for him boss and gay partner Atiku before December then he won't come distant third in the election

You are poor abeg, you need help not bet

NigeriaIsGreat:
if they ask you this low life bitch to bet your money since you are so sure and so convince your Obi go win and una go deal with APC ruthlessly

Why are you obingo foolish biko?

do you even have any money to bet?