₦airaland Forum

okay, now it is.  No offense to those concerned but I want to blv that cnn.com gets more traffic than punch and so I wonder seriously why punch news site suffers such intermittent outages, especially in recent times.

A problem with the web architecture maybe?

webdezzi:
state your case, letz debate

for that stroke of genius, I will log on to my blackberry to YIM with u, just for u, for the next 15 mins

logica:
Nah, unfortunately.  No YIMming while at work and no personal emails either.  I am usually on sha from 9am - 11am GMT, 7 days a week.  Sorry about that but as they say, "it aint my job.  he who pays the piper dictates the tune"

logica! logicaaaaa!!

You have definitely not "demoted' yourself in my eyes

ooooookay

Now http://www.punchontheweb.com/ isn't up and running (as at 12 noon GMT, Sept 26, 2008)

olushola:

Thanks for the compliments. As per links to my jobs, as I have said on other posts, I won't do that. If you want to see them, email me. I have said this at least 100 times (okay, not that many times but you get my point )

u call me bro?

anyways, a lion is already ferocious right? so y add horns to the mix? on the other hand, a goat isn't. It only uses horns to defend itself. So if God were to give us qualified webmasters "horns (govt contracts)", we would go so up and beyond that it would make the guys who just want to chop awoof upset. So they give it to those with horns, the bad webmasters.

Makes sense? I no its a proverb which by its very nature isn't meant to be gotten immediately but hopefully you get it now. Of course, it sounds better and makes more sense in my language

logica:

Again, I think you are the one digressing. I am not the one who mentioned that (to paraphrase), it would be demoting ones self to be called/to do the work of a programmer rather than developer. In all others, I have no problem but on this issue of "demotion". Again, I could care less how demoted I am, as long as I am paid right.

Can we end this please?

Well again, if that is the case, I could care less about my job position/title.  Here is what I do when applying for a job:

I visit a site like salary.com and see what my peers are making given a similar skill set, similar location and similar number of years.  I then visit 3 other type sites.  I then take an average based on those sites and aim for that, if higher than what I make currently (usually is), plus or minus $2K.

I say that to say this: in my 8-year career, I have bounced from being a senior to a "regular" to being a senior to being a "regular".  I have also been called "software engineer", "production specialist", and even "GUI developer". Would I rather be called something else (I prefer, "web developer" cos it is more direct)? YOu betcha! At the end of the day though, as I said above, I could care less what you call me, as long as my pay is rising with each job and I am paid comparable to what my peers are making, that's all.  I would much rather get paid more money than be in a situation where, just to hold my head up high among my peers, I say, "I am a senior developer".

I used to think this way until about 6 years ago when I got laid off for 2 years during the dot com bust.  That's when, like Malcolm X, I saw this world in a different light 

In my language we say, God doesn't give a bad animal horns because they are already bad. In other words, God didn't give a Lion horns but he gave a goat horns. In science, I guess you would say this is so because the ones with horns need to protect themselves from those without them.

Go figure!

Thanks big star.

logica:  of course it isn't about pay but about titles but see, even you deviated when you said:

if you ever take a job designation with "programmer" after being a developer, You have either demoted yourself or the company cannot differentiate one from the other.

Why should that even come in?  As I said, I don't subscribe to the "do you know who/what i am?" syndrome.  if, in your words, you say:

but the fact is a programmer on certain levels (say level 3) in a wall street company may earn more than a developer in BOA (Bank of America) for instance.

why would you say what you said in your first quote above?  By that, what I get (I stand corrected) is that even if I a get the opportunity to get paid more, just because I am called a programmer, not a developer, I should dump the job. I know that is not what you said, but one could infer that from the statement.  Seems like dbl talk.

Sure, you can contact me via the address in my profile and we can take it from there.  Let that however not be an excuse to not continue the battle of ideas and "logica" posts.  I am actually enjoying it

if you ever take a job designation with "programmer" after being a developer, You have either demoted yourself or the company cannot differentiate one from the other.

Again with the assumptions.  I have been working for 8+ years.  With every job I take, I get paid more.  Personally, I could care less if my job title is bus conductor.  As long as the pay is right for what I do, that is all that matters. I learned that lesson a long time ago. I am not into titles. I am into pay and how much money is left in my account after all the bills are paid.

mustay, that one better. I know of a govt website that hasn't been up since 2005 but get this: the webmaster is still being paid a salary because he is a govt worker. According to my contacts, he just sits there twiddling his thumbs

Mustay:

Tell me about it man.  I personally know of govt jobs where that govt paid N40million and the result? CRAP, just like what you have attached above, if not worse.  Our problems? Cronyism, nepotism and greed.  What makes it worse is that the above site is owned by an IT agency.  I clicked "contacts" and got the "about us" page.  I clicked "enquiry" and got the "IT industry" page.  It's only after I clicked "ask questions" that I got a form which didnt even validate (front or back end).  Meanwhile, someone is somewhere in an airconditioned office saying to himself, "we too, we follow get website now. E dey for our complimentary card. see am now". Tufia!!!

All I want and pray for is that one single web job, hit am one time, N20million minimum (including maintenance as I hear many will not ask why your cost is so high if you say You will maintain for duration of the executive's term), clean mouth.  Then maybe who knows?  Word gets out, other state govts hear of me and I get to make more N20million jobs.  Either way, whether I hit am once, twice or 36 times (for each state), I still dey clean mouth.

Can I get an Amen? 

9janinja:

Let's look at another scenario: "Heeeeellllllppp!! I just bought a large pot but I don't have soup. Please help me out"

See where I am going with this? In other words, does your plea make sense to you now?

@logica
I probably wouldn't rely on the wiki for certain things.  Most information there is based on subjectivity not objectivity.  But what do I know, I only speak yoruba 

I find it interesting that you resort to ad hominem attacks.  What does that say about you? In any event, if you read my last post again, and I know, I am not a native english speaker, you will see that I have specified the context within which I am making my speech.  Of course, generally speaking, a developer and programmer are not the same (I could have been talking about a utility developer but I digress) but within the context of my job titles, both are one and the same.

Regarding your last post before Afam's responses, it seems you need to take the proverbial plank out of your own eyes before you talk about the speck in your neighbor's.  You should learn to speak in generalities when you aren't sure of something and not based on "I think".  So you could have said, "in my opinion", but then again (for the umpteenth time), English is not my native language.

I can tell you from experience that there are tons of jobs out there. The issue is finding *the right* people. I hear this all the time and Afam has alluded to this. You could walk into any local uni and find tons of people. The key is, are they right people for the job (skill set, social skills, ability to read and interpret requirements, location, etc)? If you are not getting enough leads where you are, you need to either move to where the jobs are or organize yourself such that you can do a job for someone in Lagos from the middle of Lake Chad, that's all. I have recently done 2 web projects for people in Nigeria, from the US. My first question is, "why not use local talent?" Response (paraphrasing): The right people are hard to find. Even when you find, such people aren't responsive. They tell you they will be done in 2 weeks but you don't hear from them in a month. Then you have to trace them down, only to find out they haven't started, and this is after you have made 80% down payment." I have even worked with one such person who though he had paid 100% for a job, ended up dumping the developer/programmer (I do this on purpose to piss you off ) and paying me another amount of money, far more than what he paid the other lady, to do the job in the first place.

Now, let me also digress 
If what you are saying about critics and criticisms is true, then you are pretty much rubbishing someone like Benjamin Franklin, one of the greatest polymaths of his time who came up (in part at least) with my signature. I would tread softly in that regard.  At best, your commentary wreaks of some free ebook you read after doing a google search, at worst, it resembles something you got off of a TV/Radio show.  In essence, what I am saying is it isn't something you know to be true yourself.  It sounds too "textbookish".  Oh, sorry, "wiki-ish".  Oops, sorry, that's the Yoruba coming out of me 

Mo n lo si oja, e jo.

yep.

Call me lazy but I don't have time to click email addresses or respond to "contact me for details" posts. Sounds like a sales pitch, something I don't like so I support what SAM is saying. If you drop a URL, I will definitely click and from there I can contact but I don't do that right off the bat.

@logica:
This is not an English Language board. No need splitting hairs. I have worked for many years and have had many jobs and have had the following titles: User Interface Engineer, Production Specialist, Web Programmer, Web Developer, GUI Developer and Web Engineer.

I didn't say a year

Look, all I am saying is, different strokes for different folks aside, learn it quickly and as you learn, you give yourself a project. Don't wait for a year. Why? 2 things are likely to happen:

1) by the time you learn say, PHP5, after a yr, PHP6 will come out rendering all you learnt obsolete AND

2) if you wait a year without writing any code, u cd get rustic. what you dont use, u lose.

Choice of language?  I see you probably need have have someone in public relations do the answering because I am not doing anything different from what an aggrieved customer would do

Just because guardian has 2 domains doesn't necessarily make it right. My point on domains is this: if I google for punch, I get 2 urls back to back.  Is this right?  I mean, if I click both URLs and see the same thing (kind of like what has happened with the Immigration website in recent times) wouldn't it make you think at least for a millisecond that chances are that one site is real and the other is not?

Per your quote of "going somewhere else", I think that is not the right approach to take.  I know from experience that that is the typical naija (generally spking) response to anything ("If im no like am, make im carry im money go". If I owned the company and I read this from you, i would reprimand you immediately.  You either respond to the questions or you don't (not recommended).  Do you know if that one person has the ability to organize millions not to visit the site which would in turn hurt ad revenue which would in turn potentially affect your job?  You never know.  Do you have any web analytics process going?  if yes, any idea how many hits you are losing from those who have gone to punchng?  Again, think lost ad revenue, thank potential job losses as a result of reduced revenue.  If you must maintain 2 domains (something I don't recommend from an architectural point of view), then at least for now, redirect from one to the other.

Conclusion:
Nairaland is very powerful.  Chances are that you probably wouldn't have addressed this if you hadn't read it here (and chances are that if this isn't the only place that posted this, it was definitely the first or among the first).  Instead of saying things like, "go somewhere else", calm down, address the issues raised and even if you disagree, do so diplomatically.  A diplomat talks less and listens much.  Tell Simon Kolawole by the way that what he said wasn't the smartest of things to say.  It is bad PR and bad customer service.  You can't use that to justify poor service.

Now that I know of punchontheweb, I would be stupid to say, "na only punchng I go go. If I no see news there, I no go visit them again".  Again, that would be stupidity.   As Mustay has said (and yes, we don't own the site but as readers and fellow web developers, I think we have the right to suggest, for which you should take no offense or "find difficulty in replying", that one URL be shut down.  In the event that you need multiple domains, create a subdomain or a redirect.  That way, you don't get what I got here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=punch+newspaper+nigeria&btnG=Google+Search&aq=1&oq=punch+newspaper+niger , that's all.

By the way, to put a potential visitor/advert client into further confusion, read the "last updated" portion on that results page.  In order not to deviate, i won't even bother asking about your update policy.

Take everything that has been written here not with a grain of salt and not as personal attacks but as suggestions which based on what I have read, I would strongly suggest you take. I could say worse things but in the interest of moving forward, i have chosen not to. So trust me, if you think I am negative now, you ain't seen nothing yet. Not that I would be rude, but I could. If I did, the message would be lost. You would focus on the attacks and not the message. I want you to focus on the message, thatz all.

Thanks,

And to me there is no good market for programmers as it's for developers or i'm I getting it wrong?

Though, people say programming lets you get older than your age, yet I still love it.

There is a good market for programmers/developers (the 2 terms are synonymous ), anywhere in the world. If you are not having any luck, chances are that either you aren't doing anything to make yourself marketable, you aren't living in a city/state where there is a lot of programming work, you aren't presenting yourself well OR you aren't "swimming" in the right circles. Worse case, you could always bid for a job on freelancer.com, scriptlance.com et al.

I don't quite know how coding makes you older than your age. I am going to call that one an urban legend. Even if it did, if you are making money off of it, who cares?

here here Mustay,

Shut the BLOODY punchng.com site down (especially when you consider that this url is giving an app error)!!!

This will also enable google and other search engines to remove it from its indexing.  Right now, a search for punch in google yields punchontheweb and punchng as #1 and #2 respectively.  Reminds me of pioneerng.com and pioneernewsonline.com

Not professional at all.  Wreaks of 419 if you ask me, and we all know, if there is one stereotype that dogs out anywhere in the world, it's 419.

- Color combination - off

- Site's purpose: I have no idea

- Contact us page: Says,

To Contact Us, Please Fill The Form Below or send mail to: admin@onlineways.info And We shall Get back to You Within 48-hours:line

Yet, I see no form on the page

- Forum button doesn't work, web news is blank, about us page has gray instead of orange header

- Online biz ideas page's layout is wacked out.

Verdict: YOu have A LOT of work to do.

vanilla html form will NOT work unless the hosting company provides you with a cgi-enabled processor on their end. In other words, rather than build your own form with some backend language (PHP, JSP, etc), you point the "action" attribute of your form to some cgi script residing on your host's server.

If you don't know a lick of whatever backend language, call the host and c if they can handle form processing on their end. Chances are though that if they do, you will be limited with respect to what you can actually do with the script. Either that or google for "free form processor" or words to that effect. Back when all I knew was HTML, I found some useful scripts for 'tell a friend" forms. All I needed to do was prepare the form in HTML and point the "action" attribute of my form to their script and they did the rest.

webguru:
Yes, you can get paid that amount.  It all depends on who you are approaching and how you present yourself.  Not to brag but I have charged 230K for a standard website (as in no DB or interaction.  Just threw in a few eye candy here and there to make the client say, "uuuuuuh" and "aaaah" and have charged 340K for a web app complete with DB and ability to pay via paypal.  Again, it all depends on who you work with and how you prevent yourself. 

I personally would rather stay the whole year and do 1 or 2 sites at 300K than do 100 sites at 50K.  Why? because I have noticed that those who pay low are the ones who give you the most trouble.  In fact, I spent the first 7 months of this year with not a single job.  Now, I am overwhelmed.    When you charge more and better yet, can justify why you charge that high, you start to notice that the way they look at you changes.  In fact, they yield to you with respect to your judgment because they know you know what you are doing.  Perhaps, Afam can affirm to this.  Of course, chances are that you can't just waltz in somewhere and start charging millions.  It starts one step at a time.  You steadily build your portfolio and word gets around.  Finally, another thing that I have come to observe is, the more you brief the client on progress, the higher they rank you.  I send emails at least every other day, I call to make sure everything is okay and if I tell them I will be done with a site in 2 weeks, I make sure I actually finish it in half the time.

Bottomline, steadily build your portfolio, and be true to yourself.  If it means staying the whole year not doing a single site, so be it.  Sprinkle your self-confidence and self-worth with  help from God, and the sky is the limit.

okay,

it seems there are 2 issues here:
1) the site (at least the one i know) isn't running, AND
2) there are 2 different urls

I have worked in many places with different servers.  they do what is called load balancing.  If one is too busy, or whatever, they shunt traffic to the other.  Why hasn't punch done this?  In other words, why even have 2 urls in the first place (as opposed to say, server1.punchng.com and server2.punchng.com)?  Also, how come some know of the "ontheweb" url and not me?  For the past 5 years or so, I have been accessing "punchng".  Why? Cos that is what came up on google when I did a search.  You see where I am going?

Sorry if my criticism borders on cynicism - I have been doing web dev for a very long time and have pretty much seen it all.  I hate it when I have to waste valuable time to do things that should be obvious (when the dust settles, check out the book, "don't make me think" by steve krug, if you haven't already).  I am a very loyal visitor to the "punchng" site, for one because it is the most visited nigerian website in nigeria.  Having said that, it takes very little to turn me off to anything on the web.  Please, take this as from someone who is both a loyal visitor and a fellow web developer, not as from someone who is trying to give punch newspaper a bad name.

Thanks,

@sanyaale

Please, don't take my replies as confrontational)

and what gave you the impression that I am?  No need getting defensive.   What has happened as happened.  It has happened to the best of us.  The important thing is that the site is back up (supposedly). 

Just this morning (US time), I visited the site only to get:

Server Error in '/' Application.
Server Too Busy
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Web.HttpException: Server Too Busy

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[HttpException (0x80004005): Server Too Busy]
   System.Web.HttpRuntime.RejectRequestInternal(HttpWorkerRequest wr) +148

Yes, I admit it.  I decided to chew my own words and visit the site despite my prior postings and I was disappointed yet again.  I then decided to be in the spirit of forgiveness and hit reload after visiting 5 other news sites and the site came up.   As I type, I get the same error.  Will that make me stop visiting for a while?  You can bet your last naira that emphatic my answer is yes.

On another topic, I personally don't like the new arrangement of news items at the bottom of the page - there is no demarcation b/w news articles and as a result, I will not bother reading that portion of the site.  Also, one perennial problem of that site has been the search feature.  I have always gotten a server error.  Perhaps you can talk to those concerned about this.

Finally, don't think too much of my posts.  Just read my tag line below to understand why I do what I do.

Thanks,

Thatz right - u r only as secure as you make it. That being said, there is no need (and I hate it when Nigerians in particular do this ) saying in a sense that that cos google and yahoo are/aren't as secure that again in a sense, it is okay for Punch to be/not to be secure. No offense, but you are sounding like you are quoting from a textbook, an ebook or some article you pulled off of google.

Look, I am not trying to down punch. They are the #1 most visited nigerian website, in Nigeria, in the world. It isn't easy to get there and of course, when u r on top, the sharks will definitely be swirling around hoping for you to drop blood. I have been visiting that site every day for the past 3 yrs. All I am saying is, in my own interest, I will lay low for a while, thatz all.

Lesson of the day:

Don't be cheap and go with the least protection.  If you want to run a successful business online, it is better to pay N1million today and be worry-free than pay N10million (in both time, software, hardware and human brains) tomorrow.

I personally haven't been to that site in 2 weeks or so when my FF3 flagged the site as a potential security threat. I will give them to october 1st b4 reluctantly visiting them again. I have too much stored on my computer and as such can't risk even a 1% chance of infection.