ayoku777:


Matthew 6v7 -But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

What Jesus was talking about here is that we christians should not chant our prayers like the heathens do.

Some religions like budhism can chant the same word or phrase many times during their prayers and meditations. And I've listened to muslim prayers where they chant "laila illa la" continuously for long. And there are other religions like that.

Jesus said we should not do that when we pray. That the Father does not hear us because we chant a word or repeat a phrase many times when we pray but because we ask in faith.

Ofcourse, He doesn't mean that we cannot ask the same prayer request again and again whenever we come into God's presence. Persistence and importunity is allowed in prayers, but not repetitive chanting like the heathen.

Jesus Himself prayed the same request a few times when He went into the Father's presence.

Matthew 26v39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt

44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, SAYING THE SAME WORD.

Paul also besought for the same request a few times;

2Cor 12v8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

Also, in the parable that Jesus gave to teach us to keep asking until we receive, the widow kept coming to the judge and asking the same thing.

Luke 18v3 -And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Give me justice against my adversary.

So persistence is allowed in prayers but not repetitive chant like pagans.

Hope this helps.

Shalom

Lailaha illalah is not a prayer. At least try and be honest, and get your facts right when referring to other faiths.

Akshow:
Why the question before one can comment on an Islamic thread when any Christian thread is a open ground for all jabs and comments? Partially dis thing o.

...............................
This is not the right place to discuss that. Kindly, open another trend to ask.

Interestingly, nonbelievers are free to dress anyhow. In fact nuns are holy for covering their body. But a Muslim woman is oppressed when she chose to dress islamically. May God continue to guide us to the right path.

mustymatic:

Dumb people do not know what meaningful is...if you can call the above trash without any reasonable defense.. then sorry, you are deaf dumb and blind

.....................
Please brother, remember to debate with them in a beautiful manner. Show them evidence but do not call them dumb etc. Remember we are not even allowed to abuse their god. And also remember only Allah can guide to the right path. May Allah guide us right.

lordnicklaus:
My question to Muslims is if the Quran is infallible, why does it lack historical evidence?

................
Historical evidence such as? The question is a little vague. Kindly make it clearer. You can illustrate with something or event that is infallible which also has historical evidence.

Amberon11:
Why are you twisting the words of your supposed "God"?? that verse up there has nothing to do with the bible and whether it was corrupted or not. It simply says the followers of Christ will be made more superior.

...............
Why did you quote the Qur'an anyhow? The Qur'an says they are superior to unbelievers. You stopped at superior. Why are you mischievous in quoting a simple verse.

lordnicklaus:
What is quite funny about Muslims I debate with is that they tell me that Jesus spoke Arabic or that the Injeel (Gospel) was written in Arabic. They fail to realise that Jesus was a Jew and He spoke the Galilean Aramaic, so how can He write in Arabic?.

...............
You are either debating with ignorant Muslims or lying.

Nsonaso:

I need to know your budget so I don't make a blind search. Note: I only choose to help but if not needed fine.

please help me too. I beg.......my budget is 140k. Please I need one with at least 2gb nvidia.

Annunaki:


You see how you dribble yourself into a corner? The bible was fully canonised as at the time of mohammed and the torah(old testament) and injeel(new testament) was already being used by christians as at the time of mohamed. But as you have now seen inconsistencies in mohamed's position and statements written in the quoran, you muslims resort to your usual lies and try and create an impression that what mohamed referred to as injeel is different from the new testament even though you have zero evidence for this other than your wanting to remain in your self inflicted islamic delusion. Your quoran is full of inconsistencies and is self contradictory, even a five year old can point this out so stop fooling yourself.

............................
Lolz. The op quoted a verse in the Qur'an and deduced that it authenticates the Bible. I tried to point out to him why a muslim won't agree to his deduction. You asked me about injeel and I told you. All this is in the context of the original post.............................
You made some allegation that I lied, dribbled myself to a coner etc. But the only I feel is worthy of reply is that I have no evidence. Check Qur'an chapter 57 vs 27, ............we sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospels (injeel used in the Arabic text).....................................

Now, the new testament has LETTERS written by Paul to Others. It also contains in Luke chapter 1 vs 3 that it seems good to 'the writer' to also write.......................
What you want me as a muslim to believe is that Paul's letter, and what feels good to the writer of Luke ch 1 vs 3 is same as the Gospel bestowed on Jesus?....................................................
You could accuse and say all sort of things you feel like but kindly answer the question I asked. I believe it is a Yes or No question.

Annunaki:


Can you let us have or see a copy of this 'muslim bible'?

Muslim's Bible is Injeel. I manufactured and used muslim's Bible in the above post. Muslims do not claim to have a copy of Injeel. What muslims claim is we believe truely that God reveal an Injeel to Jesus which he used during his time same way he releaved a Torah which Moses used................................
However, muslim's believe in Injeel, Torah and other previous revelations is as a result of thier believe in Quran and Hadith not because they have them or see them................................
If non-muslims should now come with a book saying it is Injeel and it doesn't conform with what the Qur'an and hadith says about it, they simply reject that particular book............... Our believe in Injeel is similar to our believe in angels. We have neither seen them nor touched them but we believe they exist based on the Qur'an.......... You asking for a copy of Injeel is a wrong perception of 'believe in Injeel/muslim's bible. I hope you now habe the right perception.

A 'typical muslim' will define Christians as misguided humans not those who follow christ. Example of those who follow christ to a muslim is king of Abyssinia who muslim met there when they migrated from mekkah. Another example is the uncle of Khadijah......................
1. This shows the difference between those who follow christ and christians.
*Bible to muslim contain words of other humans. Injeel is God's word put in the mouth of Jesus. A mixture of both is not Injeel or Muslim's bible.
2. Clearly, what a muslim's bible is different from christian's bible.

...................................................................
What you deduced from, what you used in deducing and what you deduced is based on using your own definition. A debate on your deduction is a waste of time if terms used mean different thing to the debaters.

The definition of terms is one of the various reasons why religious arguements extend beyond reasonable lenght on Nairaland.

Your own definition of 'Christians' is those who follow Jesus. A muslim's definition of 'christians' is in the first part of that same verse you quoted which is those who blasphame........................................... Here, 'those who follow Jesus, christains, those who blasphame needs definition'.

The verse you quoted states that 'those who follow' Jesus are superior TO THOSE WHO REJECT FAITH (seems you do not consider the last part in your deductions from the verse)
..............................................
I don't know about you, but some christians do not consider Jehova withness christians.... Leaving us with what does christian mean.


*The above is in direct link with the the verse you quoted.*

Also, you used some terms in what you infer from the verse. E.g you assume that the Injeel (given to Jesus) is the Bible.

The Bible vs Injeel; those who follow christ vs the disbelievers (those who reject faith vs those who blasphame and christians.......

As long as your definition of those terms is not in agreement with what muslims define them as, any arguement on the verse is a waste of time.

Op! If it it right for people within your age range to have bf/gf, they can marry. It is natural for our body to get attracted to the opposite sex and the only religious way to satisfy the desire is marriage.

Op! Once you are sure the man is righteous and of good character, marry him. However, educate those around you why that is a better option than sleeping with him while you are both unmarried......... May God guide you right. Peace.

VomeSchakleton:


Muslims do not and will never worship a man who ate drank, shat and bled. That's ridiculous

Jazakumullahu khairan bro. I have learnt from your post. But pls bro, avoid the temptation to use derogatory remarks on non-believers. Remember we are asked to debate with them in a beautiful manner. Also remember there are muslims who are learning from your reply. Assalam alaikum.

Jackpot! Make these women con born tripplet each...........

Op! To every difficulty, there is a relief. Surely, your relief period is will come.

But with what you wrote here, it seems your parent are not really involved. You seem to be the only one running around. Why not get them involved.

Again, to every difficulty comes relief...... Be patient.

BlackTechnology:



To add to your point

Once these brains are developed, the government should create regulate and monitor a platform where these brains can meet those with money to spur industrialisation

Sure! Industrialization over privatization. I am guessing that you have read Professor Ogbimi's book- solution to mass unemployment in Nigeria.

*** modified

This particular YES - program is likely to fail even if it is rightfully implemented. This is because the following were not considered;

1. Do we have the needed 'brains to transform this money to what Nigeria will export?

2. Are the needed brain needed to create wealth more than the brains who are ready to destroy it?

If any of the above questions is negative. Then, Nigeria is only trying to fill a basket. The only way to increase the size our productive labour is by EDUCATING the non-productive ones.

A man who repeats same thing over and over again expecting the same result is a.................................................

ozor1:
i have good used deals cheaper than your budget check my posts

I prefer new. But if you can give me guarranttee on it. No prob. I will go through your post.

Pls, somebody should help me.

I need a new laptop with the following specifications:
Ram: 6gb/8gb ram + 2gb dedicated for graphics
Storage: 1tb hdd or 125gb ssd 13'' - 15.6'' screen
precessor's speed: more than 2.2ghz
battery life: more than 4hrs preferably touchscreen
my budget: 140k
my location: OAU, Ile-Ife, Osun state.
My number: 08137457862
kindly help/direct me to where I can get it.
Thanks.

Christopher123, this is an exam period for me. I hope you will be patient enough for me to gather the response to you reply. If you do not have the patience, I will really like you to study the development of America and Japan, then china.......


You made a statement about growth and development. From that statement, I guess you are not a science student. Take it to any field present on earth, from philosophy to biology, go to business or just any field there are enough example to show that there can be growth and no corresponding development..............

oneolajire:



God bless you, wishing you good success in your exams. My Regards to Prof Ogbimi of SOLEP,with office @ the computer building.

Though I agree with almost what Prof Ogbimi wrote in his books, but I will NEVER agree with a point(prescribed solution of acquiring skills) of his that engineers have some skills to learn from some artisans (Like the metallurgist gaining knowledge from the blacksmith). I believe if we have well equipped labs, workshops and training institutes, we will NEVER need gain technical skill from the artisans cos their level would have been too low for us to visit

From my own understanding, what you interpreted it to mean is not the exact thing Ogbimi meant. I will refer you to page 84 of his book, Solution to mass unemployment in Nigeria. Figure 8 shows that before a man is ready to be employeed, he must have
1. The theoretical skill (gained in sch)
2. Practical skill ( again to be gained in sch)
3. Relevant production skill ( this cannot be gained in sch).

How will the third skill be gained?

This third skill is the reason why it took Europeans a very long time to develop even though they have acquired knowledge and skill both the chinese, India and islamic medieval civilizations....... But they fail to link the knowledge acquired to existing industry.........

This link is why we have Japanese technology (small size), German technology (durability, high strenght) etc.


Remember that Ogbimi discourages privatilization or individualism but encourages industrialization........


Applying the above science theory to your example of an MSC graduate and blacksmit. A graduate will not be going to a 'privatized or individualized blacksmith' but an industrialized blacksmith.......... An industry full of old peoples experience and large tech and scientific problem........ Not only that, since this industry is into production, they have V= VL + VG......... By going into this industry, an MSC student aquires this and become a problem solving machine. A web of this type of MSC student will form the Nigerian version of German technology in the blacksmith (steel) industy....

I will refer you to the diagram again, the time to gain this relevant skill, according to the diagram is so small. Compare the lenght of TS, PS and RPS......

If you still disagree, I will be happy to know why. Peace........

oneolajire:



Good thinking, good product. God bless you abundantly.

thanks bro. You started the movement. God bless you too. The need to change the orientation of pple is the first step. We need to be patient and persevere. When the pple understands they have been taking steps in the wrong direction, it is then they will listen to our solution in attaining our desired destination......... A developed, advanced and highly rated Nigeria. I wish to see this during my life time.

The West: the have knowlege, skill, capability before they can produce. The sell because they have what to sell to those who need them.


Nigeria wants to develop her SME, infrastructure etc. without the knowledge, skill and capability to do so... They want to enjoy the fruit without planting the seed.

A father who builds a house, buys car for him instead of educating the child has failed the child. The day that father dies, is the day the child realises he has nothing. Nigeria is failing and will continue to fail if it continue to seek for loan, infrastrcuture (depreciating assets = problem) instead of seeking for knowledge, skill and capacity to build her own (learning). History has taught us enough. Nigerians should learn!

christopher123:


I used anambra and nnewi as also a case study

Nnewi has the highest concentration of business owners and anambra as a whole ...it's the work of SME


Will you refute this also

I don't know Anambra or Nnewi. One could be considered richer than the other. But which is qualified to be developed? The true fact remains acquisition of capital (growth) is not same as development. And infact it does not lead to development. Nigeria over the years have acquired capital in form of loans, infrastructure but that has led to an increase in foreign dept and depreciated assets we lack the knowledge and capability to upgrade. Further acquisition of loan, machines instead of acquisition of knowledge, skill and capability to make them ourselves is like the foolish man in chinese proverb who didnt learn how to fish but wants to eat fish.


We had NITEL as a business in Nigeria, equivalent to growth in communication, we lack the development i.e the ability to build and run NITEL independently. The day those who built NITEl for us switch to another form (mobile network), NITEl falls. Now we have mtn, glo, etisalat which Nigeria had no capacity to build. They are business growth, not business dev. Nanotechnology is fast developing, when the west stops furnishing us with what the so called business men deal with, their business will run a natural death like NITEL.


But instead of acquiring capital a mere depreciating asset (finished product, infrastructure), let us acquire the knowledge, skill and capacity to do it ourselves just like Europeans learnt from india, china, islamic and african civilization in the medieval periods; just like how England learnt from the Europeans, America learnt from England, and the Asians are fast learning from Americans.


I am not writing this as a result of what I think is right, I am this as a result of learning from pple like Professor Ogbimi, Wale Babalakin etc, and a careful study of history myself. I have done an un-published report comparative study of history between Nigeria and India automobile industry submitted to a dept in OAU........


The result as learnt from history shows that developed country did not develop because they had money, infrastructure, smes. They developed because they acquire the KNOWLEDGE, SKILL AND CAPACITY to do what they were unable to do prior to their advancement.

Unclerukus:
You actually got it wrong OP. Reverse is actually the case, in most economically strong nations, America,sweden,Australia,etc, they believe in what we call the underground economy (SME) that actually go under the radar of taxation because they are small. They account for close to 70% of employment opportunities abroad. The problem with Nigeria and Nigerians is that everybody wants to work in a firm or wear suits and leave to office even when you earn "meagre stipends", we are so dependent on working for somebody, not creating your own opportunities. Its like this because Tertiary Education has been made cheap and easy to secure, its choking the labour market. Entrepreneurship is not about being big like dangote but making yourself a living out of your creativity, in doesnt have to be big. I am a Nigerian and i can tell you that Nigerian youths are easily the most unserious and lackadaisical you can find around. A lot of them change expensive phones between 50-240k frequently but still complain of unemployment. Why not invest in a little business. My brother don't blame the country. Sort yourself out. I started my business with 186k which was part of my savings during my NYSC mixed with other little savings, i started at the final 2 months of my service year.I export farm produce to some pig farms in china. The business wasn't easy at all at first, i wasn't making much for some time, close to a year, until recently. An ex-friend of mine got a job at KPMG and started acting funny and told me he was not in my level anymore, he was earning close to 250k, to God's glory, that's actually chicken feed to me now. If someone were to tell me to come work for shell right now, i'll be seriously offended because they cant pay me what i earn in my business. I didn't wait on Nigeria to help my case, i believe being educated gives you the platform to express your inate creativity and prowess at something not being a zombie behind a desk dependent on a stipend every month end. Enterpreneurship is the way forward . Only average joes depend on a salary, you can never be rich and experience freedom earning a salary.maybe comfortable but not rich. Nigeria doest have the framework to support Entrepreneurs, yes, create a framework for yourself. Lot of entrepreneurs are making silly money in Nigeria, take a look at computer village , lagos, i know a few young guys below 28 years that make millions every month , between 8-10 million, do they have ten heads?

the point the op is trying to make which you, christopher123 and others who think sme is the way, is not getting is;

developed nations did not develop as a result of their sme. If you check the article posted by christopher123, APEC nations ( which I called adults) are develeped not because they built their SME's. But, they are capable of DEVELOPING NOT GROWING their smes because the are now developed. Nigeria and third world countries (babies) should not try to eat adult's food by developing their SMEs. What a baby needs is breast-milk......... Someone up there said something about China doing copy cat.


Now have it in mine that China is not yet a developed country. But China is growing to be one because, before you copy cat, you learn what the other person first do before reapeating it.............. Let me illustrate better.......


3 students are in a class. Developed nation, DN is a student who knows engineering and can draw with autocad. After drawing with autocad, he sells his drawings. Fast developing nations like china are copying every clicks and strokes DN makes, the repeat the clicks and strokes drawn on the system and makes autocad drawing to sell. Underdeveloped nations, UDN, like Nigeria copy the autocad drawings of DN to sell. The difference is, DN knows, they do and they sell. Developing nations are trying to do, by them trying to copy cat, they ask questions and when their questions are answered, they learn. UDN are doing something too but that something is the wrong thing. Instead of learning, they want the end product.


Activities of underdeveloped countries is characterized by bringing in finished products like How dangote brings in chemical, machines, mixes it together using either unskilled or underdeveloped labour.

The day UN stops dealing with autocad drawings is the day UDN stopes earning from it. The day europeans stops making the machine and chemical Dangote uses in a particular sector, is the day that sector of dangote's investment starts to dwingle just like NITEL died.

Compare Dangote to Bill gate....... If you see the difference in development and growth, then you understand what point the op is trying to make.

oneolajire:



yap, I have read it since 2009, on our great campus. I even have the book.

cool. I have his exa, tommorow, TPD 502. There is need for us to inform people with the correct perception and solution to Nigeria's problem because the rate at which wrong perception and wrong drug ois being admistered is alarming. An industrialized (well structured) version of informing people (about the right perception of the problem) is need to match and surpass the rate of misinformation. The industrialised version as observed by adam smith and recorded in page 79 of Ogbimi's book, solution to mass unemployment in Nigeria will be more efficient. Don't you think?

The way some people reacted to what op said shows that majority of Nigerians don't even understand out problem just like their counterpart in government.


The similitude of this attitude is that, they are feeding a baby with adult's food according to Ogbimi in his book solution to mass unemployment in Nigeria. They failed to understand any step you take in the wrong direction takes you farther away from the required destination.

Entrepreneurers in Nigeria are characterized by ARTISANS, ILLITERATES AND A GRADUATE IN THE WRONG FIELD. This is a survival way not a developmental process.


Entrepreneures in the west are characterized by highly educated and skilled workforce enjoying the network of other skilled and highly educated workforce.



The problem of Nigeria is not lack of infrastructure, but lack of the knowlege and technical skill to construct the infrastructure........


Western nations are not developed because they had electricity and other basic infrastructure, they had the basic infrastructure because the are developed.

Only a man who take a careful study of the history of developed nation would understand this.


Therefore, readers, take the pain to study the turning point in the life of developed world and you will realise that

1. The western world, our leaders, and majority of Nigerians do not understand the problem of Nigerian....... We lack the required knowledge and skill

2. As a result of the above, all the efforts by Nigerians and our govt since independence have been steps in the wrong direction.

When Nigerians, Africans and third world nations realize this, they will not ask the leaders to give them 'adult's food' when they are still babies. They won't ask for good roads, electricity etc because these are results or fruits of developement. They will start to demand the seed of development which is learning - scientific, technological and moral knowledge, and the required skill to complement this.............. Peace be unto you all.

oneolajire:



Good comment. The major challenge is that of the government that has deprived the educational/scientific environment of adequate assistance. We need a functional system that can make innovative ideas come to reality as well as innovative products being commercialised. There are only two engineering products that were innovated by Nigerians and have successfully been commercialised. They are the yam pounding machine and the EAT-SET device(used in blood transfusion). Unfortunately, both products were commercialised outside Nigeria cos we do not have the capacity to develop them from innovative stage to commercialised stage. Likewise, we have thousands of products in innovative stages but have never got to commercialised stage. Yet we still have more products to innovate. Our major problem is the environment(well equipped labs and workshops) to bring more innovative products as well as commercialised already innovated ones.

hello op, you have some nice points there, kudos, Have you read Francis Ogbimi's book, solution to mass unemployment in Nigeria?

KingCheezyPuff:
I was specifically speaking of the wedding night.

wedding morning and afternoon nko? Must the action begin in the night?.....smh