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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 8:12am On Dec 30, 2013

padeolu: point of correction, In Nigeria, HND is 2years.

Point of correction too, u don't go into HND program in nigeria with ssce and spend 2 yrs like the british do. U must have 2 yrs ND plus 1 yr internship to qualify u to do 2 yrs HND in nigeria which makes it 5 yrs. There is a difference in the UK and nigerian HND system. The ND is just like an associate degree in the US also.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 10:31pm On Dec 29, 2013

destino24: Sorry if i sounded rude

Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 10:31pm On Dec 29, 2013

destino24: Sorry if i sounded rude

No, u didn't. Just trying to warn on dat so dat we don't start an e-war.

Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 9:32pm On Dec 29, 2013

dejt4u: BTW which skul do u attend??

i'm not attending any school for now. Hope i've answered ur question?

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 9:28pm On Dec 29, 2013

destino24: Guy, answer the questions in my previous post, and please stop calling US here.
WE ARE NOT RUNNING THEIR SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

don't be rude pls. Let's discuss calmly with some form of respect for each other.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 9:08pm On Dec 29, 2013

dejt4u: God bless u brother..mr Zebra..i think we are done here or wat else??

Done with what? No body is saying that HND and Bsc are the same. U guys should take it easy and try to understand the issue raised. Nigerian HND is not like what u see in that link. In nigeria HND takes 4 academic years plus 1 year internship. The WES in the US evaluates certificates from other countries to determine their equivalence with the US BS Degrees. Some Nigerian HND certificates have been evaluated and given the equivalence of a US BS Degree based on relevant credit units and some of them have been given admission for MS programs. If the US can recognize the Nigerian HND as equivalent to a US BS Degree, why can't nigeria do same? Mind u some Nigerian Bsc and HND results have been relegated by WES as not equivalent to a US BS Degree.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 8:38pm On Dec 29, 2013

destino24: Op, additional research just proved this whole topic wrongA Higher National Diploma (HND) is a higher education qualification of the United Kingdom.[1] A qualification of the same title is also offered in Malta,[2] Nigeria,[3] and some other countries with British ties. This qualification can be used to gain entry into universities at an advanced level, and is considered equivalent to the second year of a three year university degree course.

Edexcel describes an HND as "A vocational qualification, usually studied full-time, but can be studied part-time. It is roughly equivalent to the first two years of a 3 year degre (with honours), or to the Diploma of Higher Education".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_National_Diploma

Nigeria doesn't run her HND program that way. In Nigeria, HND is 4 academic years plus one year IT. Bsc is 4 academic years also. That is why the US accepts the nigerian HND as an equivalent of a BS degree. The UK does not accept it because of the name.

Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 8:36pm On Dec 29, 2013

destino24: Op, additional research just proved this whole topic wrongA Higher National Diploma (HND) is a higher education qualification of the United Kingdom.[1] A qualification of the same title is also offered in Malta,[2] Nigeria,[3] and some other countries with British ties. This qualification can be used to gain entry into universities at an advanced level, and is considered equivalent to the second year of a three year university degree course.

Edexcel describes an HND as "A vocational qualification, usually studied full-time, but can be studied part-time. It is roughly equivalent to the first two years of a 3 year degre (with honours), or to the Diploma of Higher Education".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_National_Diploma

Nigeria doesn't run her HND program that way. In Nigeria HND is 4 academic years plus one year IT. Bsc is 4 academic years also.

Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 8:30pm On Dec 29, 2013

dejt4u: from ur own statistics abi.. Weda u lyk it or nt poly is inferior nd wil 4eva be inferior to uni..

in Nigeria abi?

Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 8:21pm On Dec 29, 2013

destino24: Accountants no dey do practical, whether in a university, polytechnic or monotechnic.

In the Engineering field, they do more of practicals than theory.
In a university, all engineering students will take a course called "ALGEBRA" (both basic and advanced) in first year (first semester).

In a polytechnic, mechanical Engineering students take this same course as "ADVANCED ALGEBRA" in their final year

I've never been specific on engineering alone. Accounting/accountancy is another course to also talk about here. FYI, there are practical sessions in accountancy in the polytechnics in case u don't know. Have u also wondered why they have to do 1 year industrial training before completing the HND program?

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 8:10pm On Dec 29, 2013

destino24: Bro, ideally, if you graduate an engineer from a university, you'll be given a B. Eng not a B. Sc.

That said, a food engineer was given. ..
B. Eng = Bachelors of Engineering in Food Engineering

OR

B. Tech = Bachelors of Technology in Food Engineering.

They are not the same thing

That's what i've been saying, BTech and BEng or Bsc are all equivalent qualifications, they cannot be the same. A BTech graduate followed the technology path while the BEng or Bsc graduate followed the scientific path. They were all taught food engineering with different approaches.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 8:00pm On Dec 29, 2013

destino24: Bro, ideally, if you graduate an engineer from a university, you'll be given a B. Eng not a B. Sc.

That said, a food engineer was given. ..
B. Eng = Bachelors of Engineering in Food Engineering

OR

B. Tech = Bachelors of Technology in Food Engineering.

They are not the same thing

Pls do a little more research. Many schools in the US award BS for engineering programs and not BEng. Even in Unilag they award Bsc in engineering and not BEng.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 7:56pm On Dec 29, 2013

dejt4u: Help me tell this guy ooo. What are dey doin in polytechnics... Jst practicals..na only practical we go eat?? Abeg, 4get dis shit nd face d reality of life.. No wonder my parents hate polytechnic...
Na naija we dey ooo.. Polytechnic ko monotechnic ni

You're only assuming they do only practicals. That's ur opinion about the nigerian polytechnics, they only do practicals. Well, i'm still wondering why/how poly HND graduates pass ICAN exams and other professional exams even before many varsity graduates.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 7:25pm On Dec 29, 2013

destino24: There is a difference between an Engineer and a Technologist

Besides, we are not using the American educational system

Yes. We still have Bsc and BTech Engineering technology programs in the US. They are 2 different programs or paths. One is theoretical and the other is applied. Hope u're not in anyway trying to say that a Bsc or BTech Engineering Technology is inferior to a Bsc engineering in the US?

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 7:00pm On Dec 29, 2013

alotofgrace: why should hnd be equivalent to bsc? is US schooling system equivalent to ours? must US determine all we do? leave US; look at our 9ja nation.....brb

US schooling is better than that of Nigeria 100 times. Atleast u can see what not following their system has done to education in Nigeria and the economy as a whole.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 6:54pm On Dec 29, 2013

destino24: Maybe in another profession but in Engineering, its a NO!

The kind maths wey we solve for first year, dem dey do am for final year

A friend's HND in Chemical Engineering was evaluated by WES and was found to be equivalent to a Bsc Chem Engineering in the US.

Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 6:19pm On Dec 29, 2013

Guy, pls find out the meaning of equality and equivalence. Let me give u an example. A Sqn Ldr in the Air Force is equivalent to a Major in the Army. The two ranks belong to 2 different branches of the armed forces, but yet are equivalent by level. The two ranks cannot be said to be the samething but equivalent.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 4:22pm On Dec 29, 2013*

dejt4u: let me tell u what probably u didnt knw about university education in Nigeria...
As a university graduate, u are bound to be versatile i.e u will nt be restricted to ur dept or faculty alone.. If u are a science student, u will tak some courses outside ur faculty be it admin, social science, art, tech etc weda as core courses, free electives, special electives or restricted electives.. So it makes dem more versatile dan ppl from other higher institutions..that is what i meant by revision of poly's curriculum..
Although, those wit OND or HND are very good in practicals even better than uni graduates especially in engineering... I hope u get me better now

Let WES be the judge pls.

Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 4:21pm On Dec 29, 2013*

dejt4u: let me tell u what probably u didnt knw about university education in Nigeria...
As a university graduate, u are bound to be versatile i.e u will nt be restricted to ur dept or faculty alone.. If u are a science student, u will tak some courses outside ur faculty be it admin, social science, art, tech etc weda as core courses, free electives, special electives or restricted electives.. So it makes dem more versatile dan ppl from other higher institutions..that is what i meant by revision of poly's curriculum..
Although, those wit OND or HND are very good in practicals even better than uni graduates especially in engineering... I hope u get me better now

Bros, i'm also a university graduate. I know all these.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 4:20pm On Dec 29, 2013

dejt4u: let me tell u what probably u didnt knw about university education in Nigeria...
As a university graduate, u are bound to be versatile i.e u will nt be restricted to ur dept or faculty alone.. If u are a science student, u will tak some courses outside ur faculty be it admin, social science, art, tech etc weda as core courses, free electives, special electives or restricted electives.. So it makes dem more versatile dan ppl from other higher institutions..that is what i meant by revision of poly's curriculum..
Although, those wit OND or HND are very good in practicals even better than uni graduates especially in engineering... I hope u get me better now

And who told u students in nigerian polytechnics don't take courses from other departments. I can still remember very well that biz and acct students in polytechnics took physics, chemistry and biology per semester as compulsory elective courses. That's not even the issue. Are u saying WES evaluation of nigerian HND is false?

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 3:28pm On Dec 29, 2013

dejt4u: so wat are u nw clamourin for? Since they are nt d same in any means, they shldnt be d same in certification.. Bsc,Ba,Btech nd Bedu can neva be d same thing as HND in Nigeria..

U claim they are not the same, but people who know better than u say they are equivalent bo virtue of total number of credit units. Do u evaluate or know better than them?

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 3:24pm On Dec 29, 2013

dejt4u: so wat are u nw clamourin for? Since they are nt d same in any means, they shldnt be d same in certification.. Bsc,Ba,Btech nd Bedu can neva be d same thing as HND in Nigeria..

They were never meant to be the same, but equivalent.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 3:21pm On Dec 29, 2013

@dejt4u: Hope u did logic in maths? If u did i expect u to know that equivalence and equality are not the same. HND is equivalent to Bsc but not equal to a Bsc. @Mods: pls move this to front page let's argue this out.

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Education › Re: Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 3:16pm On Dec 29, 2013

dejt4u: Op, dnt deceive urself..polythechnics nd universities curriculum in Nigeria is very different and dat is what is makin it unequivalent..
What shld be done nw is to upgrade ur curriculum in polytechnics

Varsity curriculum and poly curriculum are not the same, should not be the same, are not meant to be the same, and can never be the same. The 2 schools serve different purposes. If the curricula are the same it means a poly and a varsity are the same and should follow the same path. They are not the same pls. The certificates are equivalent according to WES.

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Education › Hnd Is Equivalent To A Bsc by zebra(op): 2:42pm On Dec 29, 2013

Please, if World Educational Services (WES), a US educational evaluation agency could evaluate a Nigerian HND certificate and say it is equivalent to a 4-year Bsc Degree, what then is the problem of Nigeria and Nigerians? Many HND holders have had their transcripts evaluated by WES and the outcomes have been that the Nigerian HND is equivalent to a Bsc Degree. What then is making Nigeria to still discriminate against Nigerian HND holders? Try evaluating ur Bsc or HND certificate with www.wes.org and see. Or, is it that they don't know what they are doing?

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Career › Re: Why Should Fg Discriminate Against Hnd Holders? by zebra(m): 4:26pm On Dec 28, 2013

It has become a plague to have HND in nigeria. Just wished the government could phase out HND programs and give varsity status to competent polytechnics.

Education › Re: Why The Discrimination Between Hnd Holders And Bsc Holders by zebra(m): 7:21pm On Dec 22, 2013

tosnat: I heard of a guy that studied mechanical engineering at Yaba college of technology, he had upper credit at both national diploma and higher national diploma levels.thereafter,he moved to unilag via direct entry into part 3..news had it that he emerged overall best graduating student with a cgpa of 4.98 or so and was sent to M.I.T in the u.s....that's someone who wasn't able to bag distinction at yabatech...

The universities don't train, what's the essence of theoretical knowledge that isn't applied?..I observed the trend and noticed that graduate engineers seek refuge in the I.c.t industry.then I wonder,why study mechanical or electrical engineering and the run to infotech?..they start a new career, run after ccna,ccia and the likes..bros,they don't know the engineering they studied for five years...not that its their fault..its just that the system is faulty..theory for five years and when they grad,they tend to be unemployable..

Well,whatever we believe,the fact remains that the university certificate is more recognized.. Buh everyone has to understand that its not cos university graduates are better off...its just they way its been..I even had to stop my immediate younger brother from going to a polytechnic I graduated from..

That's good o. I had to advice my younger ones from going close to poly gates.

Education › Re: Why The Discrimination Between Hnd Holders And Bsc Holders by zebra(m): 12:26pm On Dec 22, 2013

tosnat: The polytechnics are predisposed to admitting below average students..well said...but why do polytechnic students that find their way into the universities top their 'above average' counterparts in their various fields?..why do they emerge as better and best students despite the fact that they are below averagestudents?...why do they perform better in the industries?.. Why do university graduates turn morons at the industries?..why is it that the industries can't do without HND graduates?.. Particularly in the engineering and technology fields?...you are only fortunate to be in the uni...you aren't any better than those in the polytechnics..

Well said bro. Leave engineering aside, what about accounting? Why are poly HND holders also better in accounting than the uni graduates? Why do poly graduates pass ICAN easily than their varsity counterparts? Let them also answer these.

Education › Re: Why The Discrimination Between Hnd Holders And Bsc Holders by zebra(m): 6:25pm On Dec 19, 2013

[quote author=Hnd-holder]WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? OPTIONS FOR NIGERIAN POLYTECHNICS Polytechnics around the world have been evolving while staying focused on their mission. One key evolutionary development is in nomenclature. Change of name of the institutions awarding degree level qualifications, such as the HND from Polytechnic to University, and also a change in the title of the qualifications obtained from HND/ Diploma to Degree. These changes accommodate the esteem needs of graduates of polytechnics and their teachers and makes for the recognition and ready comparison of the qualifications in line with the general expectations from the traditional tertiary education system popularized by the university. The question may be asked is there a need for these changes in nomenclature in Nigeria? We have a title conscious but performance deficient society that has made aggressive efforts to downgrade the polytechnics in Nigeria to sub-degree status and in the process frustrated many of the nation’s gifted youth. Were the story different, I personally think that HND holders from my generation are very proud of what they have achieved and would retain the name, preserve the heritage of the polytechnic system, and encourage their own children to follow the same path to excellence. But no more; not in the circumstances that we have today. No one would gladly send his own children to a polytechnic, except as a stopgap measure. And that is a real shame and a tragedy for Nigeria. One may ask what is the offence of the polytechnics? None really. Just the result of envy by people who are not sure of themselves, and feel safer with people who are like themselves. People don’t like you when you are confident! It is the psychology of insecurity and scarcity, not of abundance. But abundance is the result of purposeful and intelligent labour, not happenstance or manipulation.
For these reasons, let the polytechnics take on new nomenclature that leaves no one in doubt that system and its graduates are equal to the universities’ and any other of equal standing. Valuable time and lives must not be wasted on nomenclature and status issues again. Let people compete on the basis of capability, and performance, not on unfair advantage. ‘Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred ideas contend’. Water will always find its level. Let polytechnics retain and deepen their National Diploma ND programmes and convert their HND programmes to degree, but retain the essential polytechnic character by deepening the practical content whilst enhancing the grasp of fundamentals.[/quote]How far with the bill to end the discrimination by some house of rep members?

Education › Re: Why The Discrimination Between Hnd Holders And Bsc Holders by zebra(m): 6:16am On Dec 19, 2013

valdprof: hehe .. A good varsity student can comfortably teach a poly lecturer

Just the same way good poly students teach uni lecturers practicals. Have u ever wondered why some uni lecturers in accounting can not pass ICAN exams while most poly HND graduates do?

Education › Re: Why The Discrimination Between Hnd Holders And Bsc Holders by zebra(m): 8:21pm On Dec 18, 2013

tosnat: That's even a monotechnic...

Yes, u're right. Most of their courses are aircraft related; although they also do automobile technology and supply management.

Education › Re: Why The Discrimination Between Hnd Holders And Bsc Holders by zebra(m): 3:27pm On Dec 18, 2013*

See what the Air Force institute of technology kaduna, a polytechnic just did. They have designed and built the first drone in nigeria. Does this not tell us that polytechnics are very relevant and important?

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