₦airaland Forum

whatofyou: When manna falls from heaven into our camp, the tendency is for everyone to pack to his fill. Trouble comes quickly if only few are allowed to pack as much as they like from the abundance. FG cannot win this war by preaching something else and doing another. They cannot win this stalemate by telling ASUU to stop being greedy, yet they (FG) go about living big, teaching us how criminal it is to be poor in this age- we are all humans. ASUU has the ball in their court, and they do with it what they please.
ASUU, we the citizens will be wrong telling you that 'half a bread is better than none.' The road to the glory of our nation is rough-terrained. The foolish one sees nothing; the wise sees long-term.

If politics is easy let them leave their lecturing jobs and go join Ngige & co. After all Prof. Jerry Gana left his in Geography Dept, ABU Zaria to join OBJ in 1999. Did u hear him complaining about govt not funding universities? Dr. Fagge pls call off this strike now; respect urselves. Is it because ur children are schooling in private universities and universities abroad? Pls pity the children of the masses.

3ace: Foolish people. You are always saying that the lecturers are only concerned about their own interest at the expense of the students. The question is why have you too not honoured the agreement you entered into in 2009? Did you sign the agreement under duress? If na wetin go benefits all dis useless politicians, dem go find a way to approve am. Nonsense!

Did Jonathan sign that agreement?

segun4christ: What are the professional courses available for statistics graduate ?

Go for the Royal Statistical Society. It's a world wide professional body for statisticians. U earn the Cstat status there. Use google to get to their site so that u can see their requirements.

frosbel: The TITHE as practised in churches today is a FRAUD no matter how you try to twist God's word to support this day light robbery and extortion.

I believe this whole fraud originated from Nigeria. Modern day Nigerian pastors are very smart.

Tithing is not a christian doctrine. It is a jewish doctrine. Did the apostles who started the early churches asked people to pay tithes? Or may be they forgot to? Their emphasis was on giving.

The problem is that most christians don't understand the difference btw christianity and judiasm. Jews live their lives by observing laws, principles, feasts, festivals, etc. Christians on the other hand are not expected to observe these; but to live the new life which is having faith in christ Jesus and doing his will. As a christian, Jesus has paid all my tithes already. He gives to me so that i can give to others, and not because He wants me to give back to Him. Even in the old testament God first gave to Abraham freely, not because Abraham gave to Him. So people should stop saying that if u don't tithe that God will not give to u. Judiasm emphasizes on tithing while christianity emphasizes on giving. Even Christ himself and the apostles who were the first christians did not emphasize on tithing, but on giving. As christians we are encouraged in the Bible to give to the poor, orphans, widows, destitutes, etc. Did someone here say that tithing is not an old testament law? Read Mathew 23:23 where Jesus called the pharisees hypocrites for paying all manner and kinds of tithes and failing to keep the weightier part of the law. He also said why cant they do these without leaving the others undone too. So if u want to live the jewish way of keeping laws then u must keep all the laws. If u must pay tithes then also observe the feast of passover, keeping the sabbath day holy, sacrificing animals and using their bloods for the atonement of sins, not eating certain animals like pig, becoming unclean when u touch even the hand of a woman who is in her period, therefore performing certain rites to become clean. There are many laws to be kept, and if u believe in keeping of these laws then u're not in Christ and cannot be called a christian. Christ died on the cross for us to be redeemed from the law. He has paid all ur tithes, settled all ur debts, taken away all ur sicknesses and weaknesses, so why do u still want to be observing laws and feasts like the jews?

The ones in zenith do it a lot too. They will say hello to u like 5 times and will leave their bits to escort u outside telling u stories and carrying ur bag or briefcase. U must give them something at the end of the day.

Find attached copy of the research work in pdf.

Djtm: I don't know if they are given money for research or not. Even if they are, I'm sure it is always embezzled at senate (university senate) level and it doesn't get to the lecturers. I know only a few percentage of lecturers carry out research. I think the money doesn't get to the lecturers (i.e if it's actually being allocated) or even the department.

You are now talking. That was why i said they use the funds for other purposes other than research. There is a research work done by some nigerian academicians which i would love u to go thru. The research findings stated that "research funds are available for researchers to access, but because most nigerian academicians have nothing new to bake in the academic oven, these funds are not accessed and used for the intended purpose of researching and coming out with new inventions and techniques that will help solve societal problems". I will try and get the site and post here. Regards.

Djtm: There are organizations sponsoring researches in Nigeria but any discovery will be in their name. You won't know until you see one. I didn't know too, until I met some of them. Read my earlier posts.

What are u still saying? Government provide research grants to universities every year. That is one of the mandates of the university, and it is their right that such funds is made available annually for them to carry out researches. If government were nnnt providing these funds ASUU would have included that as part of their reasons for going on strike. I still repeat, they collect these funds and use them for some other things and not research. Only very few lecturers in nigeria (less than 10% ) are actually engaged in research. I know of one in ABU, Prof Nok.

mo2raur: You mean the other mtds he want me to mention...i dnt knw too.

Ok, i think i understand u better now. U want to find out other methods of solving these systems of equations, right? I'll see if i can get some for u. But still list the ones u have so that we don't duplicate. Can u lay ur hands on Advanced Engineering Maths by Kreyzig?

Djtm: Lecturers have labs where they carry out research (@least in some schools). I know some lecturers who do. The problem is that these research are funded by foreign organizations and they pay them (the lecturers) monthly. Any breakthrough or discovery from those research will be in the organization's name. So you basically will not hear of any achievement until government starts funding research.
As for the dude who talked about government pouring millions of naira into universities, those 'millions' are not enough to run the system. I heard from someone who heard from the v.c of a school that the money they receive from the government is just a little above what they need to pay salaries. They receive 60% of the needed money and about 50% are used to pay salaries. They have to generate the rest themselves every year. Have you ever wondered why a school that will admit 5000 students will sell 80k post utme forms?
I heard from Gov Fashola himself that Lagos state's annual allocated budget is about 5% of that of Havard university.

i won't believe what u just said. Federal govt give research grants to federal universities that claim to be doing researches every year different from the money used in running the universities. If govt were not giving them research grants they would have probably gone on strike for that reason, or better still come out to tell nigerians that govt are not encouraging them financially on research. Because they have no research agenda they divert money meant for research into other uses.

delors: And with all the practicals and applications at Polytechnics, what do we have to show? Absolutely nothing. malaria fever kills everyday in Nigeria than anywhere in the world, yet our medical researchers have no solution (thanks to our herbalists who can cure with very bitter concoctions).
With polytechnics sprawling all over Nigeria, we are yet to produce a torch light. the last ones i saw were imported from china.
- Mention a Nigerian company that produces umbrella.
- mention one that produces tyres or even NYSC boots.
- Mention one construction or engineering company in Nigeria whose staff is 100% Nigerians and 100% locally trained...

But what is really the problem with the nigerian educational system? What about the millions of Naira govt allocates to universities and lecturers for research every year? Can they show us what they've achieved with it in terms of research? Only God knows the solution to Nigeria's problems.

Ajibel: Op, you and i share almost exactly the same thought. I think practicals should be encouraged to take bulk of school activities and leave students to do research on the internet on theory aspect. Most of what is being taught theoretically are available FREELY on the internet. Practicals should take a major chunk during exams and the education board should reduce OBJ questions of A, B ,C etc. It makes us lazy and encourages malpractice. I have more to say buh no one listens to me

More practical learning and less theory is done in the polytechnics. Are u saying that universities too should emphasize on more practical learning than theory too? I thought their mandate is to research and come out with designs?

mo2raur: I think both, i'l list all the mthds and talk on LU Decompositn, QR, Power Mtd & Sro Mtd

can u list the methods u're talking about?

mo2raur: Thanks For Your Rapid Response.... '
The Numerical Methods For Solving System Of Linear & NonLinear Equations'

Sorry for not responding on time. Are u to write the algorithms on the methods or u want to use them to solve problems in ur project? I can still remember some of the methods like gauss-siedel, newton-raphson, regula falsi, and bisection mthd.

Cajetan speaks: These few days I have received alot of PMs from NLanders that followed this debate, especially young grads of maths/stat. Its nice knowing that people actually followed and learnt alot from our debate.. ALUTA CONTINUA till men kick bucket. <thanks>

U try, guy. We all learn in each day and from each other. It was a good debate.

marcangelo: wel, i'm currently in yr1 mathematics and statistics...although i didnt chose it because i culdnt get admission to engineering so i ended up there in admision list... Bt its beta dan stayin at home sha

it's always like that. Most of us that read mathematics or statistics actually wanted computer science or other engineering courses, but at the end of the day we still found it interesting. Just develop some love for it and put in ur best.

Numero uuuno: okay sir,we'll done
Keep up the Good work

No wahala. We shall keep u informed on developments in mathematics and statistics.

Most mathematicians/statisticians are great men; and most great men are mathematicians/statisticians.

[quote author=Numero uuuno][/quote]I don't need to expose my identity here. I'm a consultant lecturer in mathematics and statistics with one of the state universities in nigeria. Thanx.

marcangelo: *round of applauses & a standing ovation*
wat an intellectual debate.. I've learnt one or two tings from it..
thank u

u're welcome. Pls what's ur discipline?

Cajetan speaks: This your response has said it all. If you would recall,this debate ensued because I stated that you guys should ugrade urselves with other skills, because with only a Bsc stat/maths, what you possess is only an analytical skill.END OF DEBATE. cheers

one can take up a course in any area he/she wants to specialize in; that will be an added advantage. A statistician that wants to go deep into medical research would probably need to take some courses in the medical sciences to be very relevant so also is with economics. Although in ur Bsc program u take courses in biostatistics, biometrics, and medical statistics to arm u with the skills to handle medical research data. For economic and social analysis u do courses like economic & social statistics, econometrics, psychometrics, and time series analysis. It's been a nice debate sir. Thanx.

@Cajetan speaks: Yes, an economist with sound knowledge of SPSS, STATA, and other statistical packages would be preferred when the job has to do with economic analyses. But like i've been saying economic analysis is just one aspect of statistics that economists would probably handle better may be because it involves economics. I also expect a medical or health graduate with skills in statistical methods and statistical computing to be preferred also in biostatistical jobs and analysis. But that does not mean that a statistician cannot handle such analyses. Hope i answered ur question?

Cajetan speaks: My question is still awaiting a sincere response.

and what is that question?

@Dekins88: Try and read about what statisticians in the US and UK do in the medical and pharmaceutical sciences, biotechnology, engineering and manufacturing, u will then agree with me that nigeria is yet to know what statistics is or what statisticians do. We don't do research in those areas i mentioned above here in nigeria. Nigerian government and indeed most nigerians believe in just economic and biz research and not scientific. Another problem about statistics in nigeria is the fact that there is no functional statistical body in nigeria like ICAN that regulates the practice and applications of statistics. The Royal Statistical Society in the UK regulates the practice and applications of statistics in the UK and other European countries, and also grants membership status and chartered status to members who excellently pass their professional exams which is like the ACCA and ICAN exams for accounting profession.Nigeria. Therefore, an Economist who wants to practice statistics in the UK must have a chartered statistician (CStat) status or atleast be a member of the RSS. But in nigeria the reverse is the case, as everyone feel they can practice and apply statistical methods. They do this indiscriminately because of the fact that they took some basic mathematics and statistics courses in school. In the UK, a CStat must certify the sampling technique employed in ur research work and data analysis as good and correct before any government agency/parastatal or any company/industry can approve and take ur research work and its recommendations serious.

Dekins88: This has said it all @ Cajetan speaks but to be sincere i think Economics sells more than Statistics in Nigeria.

Yes, economics sells more than statistics in nigeria because statistics is yet to be undertood and developed in ngeria. Thank God it's not like that in other countries. Statisticians in the UK and US are hot cakes. Dennis Gillings (a statistician in the US) is fast joining the league of billionniares in the US as a result of his statistical work in medical research, which has brought about advancement and development of new methods of curing certain ailments in the field of medicine. We don't carry out such in nigeria at the moment, that is why most statisticians in nigeria tend to concentrate on the economic and biz sectors. Why u see statistics graduates going to do PGD in mangement and MBA is for those of them working in biz and other non-scientific areas to remain relevant in their jobs that are non-scientific but biz inclined. Economist have restrictions on where they can apply their skills, they are restricted to economic and biz issues only, they can never join the league of scientific researchers. Statisticians on the other hand can apply their skills anywhere (sciences, social sciences, medicine, pharmacy, biotechnology, agric, process and product control, engineering, etc.). Statistics is far selling in developed nations because of its wider applications in researches in those fields mentioned.

@Cajetan speaks: statisticians also create and manage data bases, as well as write algorithms and develop new statistical programs to solve statistical problems. This is one of the principal roles of statisticians. I wonder what u take statistics for, probably mean, median, mode like some of us thought in the past. Economic analysis is the simplest and most straight forward analysis in statistics, that is why most statisticians go for more challenging areas like medicine, pharmacy, psychometrics, biometrics, agriculture, process and product control, and reliabilty and survival analysis in engineering. Like i said before go to google and request to see what statisticians do. This might help u know what statisticians can do that economists can't do.

Cajetan speaks: Lest i forget, let me bring to your notice that statistics is an integral part of economics, and that's why, we'll continue to crab all the available jobs in research and statistics especially in World Bank,UNDP e.t.c

i've said it before, ur problem is that u look at statistics from just one direction - economic and biz statistics. FYI most statisticians work in the areas of biostatistics, medical statistics, and industrial statistics. Why are u restricting statistics to economics and biz? Yes, statistics is an integral part of economics, that's to tell u how robust and important statistical methods are to an economist. Try and find out what statisticians do in the medical and pharmaceutical sciences, biological sciences, agric sciences, and industrial processes, and scientific Research & Development. Economists can contribute nothing to these areas i just mentioned. An economist can only be relevant when it comes to economic analysis, while statisticians can very well handle analyses on economic issues, as well as social, medical, agric, scientific, industrial quality control, etc. I read maths/stats, and my mathematical skills can only be compared with that of people that studied engineering and not with any discipline in the social sciences. I told u in one of my previous posts that i lecture economics students most of the maths and stats courses that make them feel they know maths up to the level that mathematicians and statisticians know. Before i forget, i also handled econometrics too. Economists are mathematically good to some extent, but to say they are better than mathematicians and statisticians or can effectively serve as statisticians is where i feel u don't know what statistics really is as a course. U probably may be looking at statistics as a social science discipline. We are scientists bro! The statistical system in nigeria is not fully developed that's why economists always try to perform the roles of statisticians in some ministries. In developed nations like the US and UK there is a boundary btw what statisticians and economists do in economic analyses.

Cajetan speaks: You are free to say anything you like.But how dare you think you do O.R (a.k.a management science)better than its owners?Its obvious you are just being sentimental and not realistic. FYI I have dozens of statisticians working under me. ..cheers..

I have the course outlines for all those quantitative courses econs, accounting and biz admin students take. Honestly they are no where close in strength with what students in maths/statistics and computer science offer. For example, we did integer and quadratic programming in ops research while ur syllabus ends at linear programming. Even at that, the linear programming does not go beyond the conventional simplex mthd. In maths/stats we go as far as big 'M' mthd, 2 phase mthd, and revised simplex mthd. In inventory theory we did both deterministic and probabilistic models with more emphasis on proofs and derivations than applictions, while ur biz admin, econs and accounting curricula laid more emphasis on applications, with no proofs required. Just to mention a few pls. You may have statisticians working under u in ur company, yes, but that does not make u better in handling figures/data analysis than other statisticians elsewhere. Company policy might ve made them be under u and not becos they are not good in statistical analysis. In my last post i said i wasn't going to debate with u again, but because i have discovered that u're not the insultive type that's why i responed again. I think i'm enjoying the debate now. Let's keep it up this way.

Cajetan speaks: You summarized the duties of a statistician viz: helps in conducting experiments, surveys,researches and developing mathematical models.. Note:economists,fin analysts and engrs., can comfortably perform all those duties you listed.we study O.R too.

i have to at this point stop arguing with u. So, simply because i did many computer courses including some programming languages, i should say i am better than computer scientists, and that i can comfortably do the job of computer scientists even better than them, abi? The stats, maths and operational research courses you did in biz and econs dept all have limits and cannot be compared with the ones i did in maths/stats dept. The maths, stats and O.R. courses done in biz and econs is just a tip of the iceberg. FYI, i have lectured economics students maths for econs I and II, stats I and II. I still lecture them uptil now on part-time basis. For biz admin, i ve been their lecturer on biz maths, biz stats and quantitative analysis too. What they do in those courses will honestly increase their quantitative skills, but not to the level of displacing mathematicians or statisticians. I now believe u only use ur internet for nairaland browsing only. I rest my case with u bro.

Cajetan speaks: FYI Dr. Yemi Kale studied economics upto PhD level. Rather, your colleagues that studied statistics are the ones taking up pgd and msc in business and economic related courses in order to upgrade themselves.

i can now see where u problem is coming from. U look at statistics from one angle only, that is from the biz and economic angle. Like i said before most statisticians work in the fields of physical sciences, chemical sciences, biological sciences, medicine, pharmacy, agric, sociology, and psychology. Very few are work in biz and finance where they develop mathematical models. FYI Statisticians are applied scientists that work in all fields where they help in conducting experiments, surveys, and researches; and in developinp models. Economists and fin analysts on the other hand can only carry out analyses on biz and economic data.