₦airaland Forum

ijawkid: Now your problem is the animals itself.......I am talking about adopting pagan customs and practices............

we are saying the same thing, the custom and practices adopted has to do with the animals.

ijawkid: Pagans used animals in there scarifice but ofcourse there pattern of worshipping there gods with those animals were exclusive to them(the pagans) and Gods servants were not to imitate such patterns............

if you are talking 2013, i will agree. but back then the pattern of worshiping was not exclusive to pagans. sacrifice using animals was the same. if you say they had se.x with the animals as part of their worship, i will agree it was exclusive to pagans, but i don't know about that bit sha. can you share those patterns that God servants were told not to imitate? i must have missed that bit.

ijawkid: If Sango worshippers eat barbecued chicken during there festivals as a custom and I as a christian adopt both the festival,customs and its pattern and tie it up with Jesus ,how would Jesus feel??....

if you adopt a pagan festival, you are not celebrating Jesus. adopting the spring festival amounts to celebrating the spring festival just as celebrated by the original (pagan) celebrants without modification. That has nothing to do with Jesus. The Easter (or pascha, thanks Mr. Ube ) i know contains element of fasting, prayers, thanksgiving, reflections e.t.c. i see some churches acting out the events leading to Christ arrest and crucifixion like the palm sunday thing, the washing of feet e.t.c Italo & co can correct me if am getting it wrong. i don't see anything spring in these activities. It would be nice if you can help tie this activities with the worship of ishtar. The other question will be if such acts can be considered un-Godly. It is on this basis one can or should reject the celebration.

ijawkid: .....easter and its customs has no dealings with our master Jesus but with paganism...and encyclopedias have shown you,but you would rather not listen.....

believe me i was listening/reading. the thing is that young man freksy was stuck on egg, rabbit and hot buns cake. one cannot conclude that a celebration is un-Godly based on some additional stuff that is based on choice i tried showing that young man that the stuff he was hanging on to show that the celebration is pagan can be removed today with ease. in fact a significant proportion of the celebrants don't celebrate with those items. will their removal result in a celebration that is acceptable to God? if it will not, then they are not worth considering in our discussion. We should focus on what is important.

ijawkid: Sure??............

sure.

ijawkid: Mbaaa....the scriptures do nt agree with you........the buildings of pagan worshippers isn't a GO area for christian gathering......the apostles never did such..........

Jesus said then that location does not matter, what matters to God is for us to worship in spirit and truth. God is not concerned with your location. You can worship God anywhere you find ya self

ijawkid: Hehehehe....and what is that reason??........

you dey ask again is it not for worship? abi una dey use kingdom hall as bar (a.k.a. beer parlour ) on part time?

ijawkid: Remember we are on do not adopt the ways of the pagans.....God always drew this clear line between being godly and following the ways of pagans.......

I agree with you that it is God that draws the line and not man drawing the line. That's why i always say we should consider the fact that pagans and Christians live in the same society. categorizing a practice as pagan because it was done by a pagan is not ideal. Its safer to assess an activity or action using God's law. if something is sinful then it is not Godly, whether performed by a pagan or by a Christian.

ijawkid: God would detest cakes and rabbits that are eaten for the sake of easter celebration........the clause there is easter(which is pagan)............

i believe you refers to ishtar or eaostre you stated something here which you have always been against. It is the intentions of the heart that matters. So if i eat cakes with ishtar in mind, then am worshiping ishtar, i agree. Then we both agree that i can go ahead and enjoy myself celebrating Jesus resurrection. am not thinking ishtar when i jollof. Thank you sir

ijawkid: Do not adopt the ways of the pagans...

Nothing like pagan ways, only un-Godly ways.

ijawkid: Come announce wether you dey do or not....

i still dey think am

ijawkid: If you can't from the scriptures discern what is clean and unclean then maybe you need to be ready to learn how to do that........

it's not about me being able to interpret. dropping bible references without interpretation is not ideal.

ijawkid: Adopting a pagan observance and clinging it to Jesus is UNCLEAN..............

i don't think this was the message in the 2 Corinthians verse you posted. if something is unclean, its unclean whether you 'cling' it to Jesus or not. i consider anything sinful as unclean. you don't wait till you 'cling' it to Jesus before it becomes unclean.

ijawkid: Of which is EASTER is one of it.......

you need to clarify the easter you have in mind. is it ishtar (spring festival), or is it easter (pascha, thanks to Mr. Ube ) the celebration of Jesus resurection? which one?

ijawkid: How do the Jews pray and how do pagans pray??.........is it the same??.....oya start answering.........remember adopting the ways of the pagans is what I'm on.......

there's no special approach. it's either you knee, stand, sit e.t.c and non of this approach was unique to either Jews or pagans. God did not tell the Jews not to knee when praying because it was also a pagan way, he did not tell the Jews not to offer bulls as burnt offering because Baal worshipers also offer bulls in worship. So we need to be careful the way we designate things as either pagan (and unacceptable) vs. Holy and acceptable. If sango worshipers eat barbecued chicken as part of their worship, people like you and truthislight will immediately categorize such activity as pagan and unacceptable. am happy you people are not God, otherwise there will be nothing left to eat

ijawkid: What if an isrealite borrowed the pattern of the pagans in prayer to God,would God accept it??.........

there is nothing new to borrow.

ijawkid: Zikky why didn't the apostles ever think the way you are thinking??.......your love for paganism seems to be so colossal........

Ask yourself why the apostles never ever thought of going into the temples of zeus and artemis to preach, talk less of converting it to a place of worship??....

Lol! have told you to stop asking questions of this nature, haba! tell me, can you go knocking on people door in Borno state today? am not saying people should go to shrine and worship, but if you find ya self there due to one (acceptable) reason or the other, nothing stop you from praying to God. and God will not reject your prayers.

ijawkid: Your problem is that you feel you can dictate the way you choose to worship God........

Did Jesus and the apostles lay out a worship program, to which we must strictly adhere? i know such program (if any) does not include the building of kingdom halls. That was at you guys discretion abi? so what are you saying?

ijawkid: Why do you think kingdom halls are built??......

The same reason shrines are built

ijawkid: Now you run away from the main point.......remember I pointed out one custom or practice Gods people were not to touch.....eating meats that are strangled.......comment on it and stop asking me about rabbit stew or cake.......

I posted my comment already. you pretend not to see it:

Zikkyy: but i can eat meat abi? only the one that is not strangled abi? so tell me did God say cake is offensive to him so i don't eat cake anymore or i do away with my delicious rabbit stew

The bold indicates am in agreement that the Israelite cannot eat strangled meat because we know God detest such behavior. and am asking if God detest also the eating of cakes and rabbit? so we avoid them as well. it's a simple matter na, or you don't think so?

ijawkid: Gods laws as regards his servants relationship with pagans and there practices has not changed a bit........those principles still stand because satan and Yahweh have not recently become freinds.............

I agree with you that the principle is still the same. meaning we must avoid anything that the Lord detest

ijawkid: If you've forgotten you can read this verses again from 2 corinthians..


2 Corinthians 6:15-17
New International Version (NIV)
15 What harmony is there between Christ and
Belial[a]? Or what does a believer have in
common with an unbeliever? 16 What
agreement is there between the temple of
God and idols? For we are the temple of the
living God. As God has said:
“I will live with them
and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they will be my people.”
17 Therefore,
“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
[b]Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.

so oga ijawkid, what exactly is unclean? is it the idol worshiper himself? remember say una dey hang out together, una dey the same office, una dey go shop for the same market, eat for the same eatery. except you want to migrate to planet Mars so what exactly is unclean? is the rabbit running around in the bush that is unclean? is it the cake baked by the bakeries that is unclean? maybe the unclean stuff has to do with what has been dedicated to other gods. so tell me, what exactly is unclean? It's not enough to just drop bible reference here and run away

ijawkid: Do you celebrate easter??...yes or No......

after 9 pages, na now you remember to ask the question you should have asked in page 1 you see your self na condemn first ask questions later and you say you know what you are talking about Why should i even respond to this question after you people been branding me an idol worshiper anyways make i go think am

ijawkid: And from the scriptures adopting the ways of pagans is tantamount to what??......I can't really understand what kind of christian you are.........can you give me one good reason why Yahweh would detest the isrealites from mixing up with pagans??....

i will give you two

1. he is likely to lose them to worship of other gods. i.e. they will turn their back on him. Remember the commandment "thou shall have no other gods before me"?
2. they will pick up practices God does not want to see. e.g they will kill contrary to the commandment not to kill (pagans offer their children as sacrifice). they will make graven images (remember the commandment) e.t.c

is that to say the Israelite and pagans don't have stuff in common? after all pagans pray just the way the Jews will pray, they offer animal sacrifice just like the Jews. God don't want them mixing with pagans because of the bad stuff. BTW you forget you belong to that category of people that God said his people should not mingle with, abi you don forget say you be gentile? your ancestors were 100% pagans (na them dey offer their children as sacrifice those days. you lucky say dem no born you for that era ). if we follow your approach to interpretating the OT, you should be in the opposite camp, i.e. the camp the Israelite must avoid

ijawkid: And the apostles who never held gatherings at the temple converged at the worship places of zeus,artemis and the other pagan gods??............abi??.

how can you be saying a thing like this. you know if the apostles show up in such places, the worshipers will attempt to sacrifice them to their gods that is not to say God will not hear their prayers if they find themselves there. i thought we already agreed on this bit

ijawkid: And when Jesus said where 2 or 3 are gathered,did he also include sango and amadioha's shrine as suitable places for. Such meetings......

Also ask yourself, did Jesus say sango and amadioha's shrine are excluded?

ijawkid: Zikkky I doubt if you really understand scriptures....so you mean you still can't understand what God meant when he said his people should not adopt the ways of the pagans??,,,,you want to also try to twist such clear cut commands to support easter celebration??........

you are jumping to another issue here using my response to your theory that says adopting the ways of pagan is indirectly worshiping other gods. my post was to show you don't know what you are talking about!

...and what is the way of pagan in what i do? abi you saw offering human sacrifice to God?

ijawkid: would the isrealites have adopted and converted celebrations(celebration to there pagan gods) of the moabites and cannanites to Yahweh??....would Yahweh accept such worship and observance??..........

Could the isrealites priests have copied the ways of the pagan priests in egypt,babylon and all other pagan nations??...........

Could the isrealies have adopted the pagan practice of eating strangles meat??.......

You want me to keep mentioning??....

You forget these isrealites have experienced Yahwehs blazing anger for foolishly following the ways of the pagans........

You forget??.....

abeg stop shouting jor out of the over 600 different laws issued by Moses to his people, how many have you implemented. Are you worshiping God as commanded by Moses? God has told his people not to adopt the worship pattern of pagans because he found them offensive. These commands are still very relevant as guides in conducting our worship today. we should ensure we don't engage in practices that are abomination to the Lord. That's what you should take away from the part of the scripture you are referring to.

After all God did not tell you to build kingdom halls, and you go about building Kingdom halls left right and center. abi you don't know it pagans that build shrines recklessly like that in the OT you keep referring to there was only one temple; one house of God.

you should stop interpreting scriptures like a robot.

ijawkid: could the isrealies have adopted the pagan practice of eating strangles meat??.......

but i can eat meat abi? only the one that is not strangled abi? so tell me did God say cake is offensive to him so i don't eat cake anymore or i do away with my delicious rabbit stew

truthislight: the things that the canannites use to worship there gods were they not Yahweh things?

Why did Yahweh reject them and warned the Israelites against going near them and touching them?

Which things be that? Tell me

in fact there is nothing like this in scriptures

ijawkid: When you adopt the ways of pagans you are indirectly/directly serving other gods........

Which way did I adopt? From a Christian perspective, a pagan is likely one that does not recognize the Almighty instead he/she worship other gods. Abi no be so? Which other way can one adopt the ways of pagans again? When God told his people not adopt the worship practices of some pagans in the book of Deuteronomy (i think), he did not say the action would result in the worship of other gods. He only said that he found the approach of those bloo.dy pagans offensive (they sacrifice their family members).so where you get your own theory from?

ijawkid: Then you ask yourself why the isrealites didn't go into baals temple to worship Jah.....do you even consider the scriptures at all or do you just choose to believe what you want to believe??............

That time there was only one place of worship, you cannot worship God any other place. You could not even build a kingdom hall in your backyard to worship God. Now things don change, God dey your heart now, he no dey stay for kingdom hall. and Jesus said where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name, he dey there kamkpe, he did not specify location.

truthislight: Go to where easter is being celebrated you will find easter temple there.

You know she is a demon?
she can be any where you call her.

I have been to my neighbor's church at easter and the activities were just like any other Sunday except for a special focus on Christ crucifixion and resurrection. I did not see anything indicating I was in a temple meant for worshiping a goddess. What I saw wad the regular praise singing, prayers and reflections + the regular offerings. Maybe you are referring to his home I remember the guy cooked rice and drinks dey yafu-yafu maybe you are referring to my neighbors home even though things appeared normal. Kindly confirm.

truthislight: Zikky no want to show respect for Yahweh.

He wants to give mango things to Yahweh.

I have shown that you can worship anywhere and God will accept. You only disrespect the Almighty when you ignore him and go serving other gods. He made all things and everything belong to him. There is nothing like sango things. It was man that took what belongs to God and used them to serve sango.

truthislight: If you think you dont worship ishtar/easter, them pin you pur there?

If you no like/worship easter, what are you doing where ishtar/easter is being worship?

Na your life! Na you sabi!

Abeg commit for road jor abi you saw me worshiping inside ishtar temple. Btw where can I find an ishtar temple

ijawkid: the sango priests prays to dead ancestors....he uses juju items in worship....he consults the dead.....he uses images and also statues in worship...etc.....

who told you sango priest consult the dead? which one be juju items again o? so you can only list 3 items (2 items there na the same) or difference between your worship and that of the sango priest. you can see there's not much difference between you and the juju man i don't know what you mean by juju items sha. am sure we can reduce the difference to one or at most 2

ijawkid:



non of our kingdom halls we don build wey we get to convert juju shrine first ..you hear?...land them borku to buy build on.....

zikky ya example no go even work on us....because if you had noticed the witnesses run away from paganism like you would run away from bokoharam...

its because you have not been in a situation where you need to convert a shrine to kingdom hall. if you find ya self in such situation all this your grammar go disappear.

ijawkid: and then you forget say we no go adopt one single holiday,celebration,worship pattern of the sango priest....

@bolded, what is the sango priest doing that you are not doing?

^^^ all that na false accusation. i no dey chop ishtar buns cake, i no dey chop ishtar rabbit. where the longer-throat dey come from

ijawkid: ....zikky u no well at all....lmao....but u forget say we suppose don burn all the sango priest utensils ,plus that him chair wey you sit down on top and then clear up the building,sweep all pagan related things.........



and then you forget say we no go adopt one single holiday,celebration,worship pattern of the sango priest....



and finally you forget say me,freksy and truthislight no go even near d sango shrine in the first place,talk less of converting it to a kingdom hall ....

what's important is that it's achievable. chikenna

ijawkid: can zikky prove the bolded with d scriptures??....

how can a shrine become a place of worship just like a kingdom hall??...

This one is easy na get an abandoned sango shrine, put freksy inside the shrine(if he is JW), add truthislight and ijawkid (+ other JW you can find around) and just to encourage them, place a pride of lion outside. The shrine will convert to kingdom hall sharp-sharp even an active sango shrine can be converted to a kingdom hall with this approach

truthislight: Dont you worship eater?

Easter = Ishtar = pegan, QED.

Do we have easter worship for christian in the bible? No.

Who had easter worship? = pegans!
^ na lie?

you see what am talking about? are you the one to tell me what i do? abi you saw me sacrificing a donkey to ishtar? if it was possible, you would have me tortured so i will have no option but to sign a confessional statement prepared by truthislight himself i don talk am say you be police man.

truthislight: You cannot biblically defend what you do in the name of God but you find it easy to attack people you talk to online as though that is where you even have facts.

This why people will never believe you guys are serious; The first thing you should ask is what i do. You want me to accept what you think i do and then defend it. that's not possible na.

truthislight: but you find it easy to attack people you talk to online as though that is where you even have facts.

attack ke?! i don't recall attacking anybody o! abi i resemble tiger for your eye?

truthislight: Meanwhile, where you should have shown facts and certainty being your religious practices you are having nothing to say.

I provided facts but you refused to see it because you wanted facts that aligned with your belief of what i do. you want a confession that i worship ishtar when the truth is that i don't. am beginning to suspect you work for the Nigerian police

truthislight: What then is lawlessness?

Lawlessness is you calling me an ishtar worshiper when you don't even know what i do

truthislight: The "tradition" in his worship does not allow him to see any difference between a shrine and a christian place of worship.

the difference between a shrine and a christian place of worship is what goes on in them. God can be present in a shrine just as he can turn his back on what you would call a Christian place of worship. or let me say that a shrine can become a Christian place of worship just as a kingdom hall can end up becoming a shrine

truthislight: Error!

You forgot something, read below let me add it for you:



Yap!

Thats ^ it. "Tradition", boundary less tradition that the pope invoke/use to do everything, i mean anything he likes and claims "infellibility".

Forgetting this instruction:

NIV/ESV/
Now brothers, these things i have transferred so as to apply to myself and apollos for your good, that in our case you may learn the (rule): "Do not go beyond the things that are written" ...................
(1cor4:6)
...........................................

Yes, boundary less tradition to do whatever he likes.

What then is lawlessness?

This man, you have been drinking too much paraga. i don't understand your posts these days

truthislight: Thats ^ it. "Tradition", boundary less tradition that the pope invoke/use to do everything, i mean anything he likes and claims "infellibility".

tradition or teachings, what's the difference? you just like unnecessary gra-gra, that's all.

truthislight: Yes, boundary less tradition to do whatever he likes.

yes, boundary less tradition to do whatever God likes

ijawkid: And you're asking me what's the difference between a juju shrine and a kingdom hall and a church??....smh!!!!!.........its like asking what was difference between the rooms the apostles and early christians gathered and the temple of zeus or artemis....

you like to dodge questions sha. anyways you provided the answer somehwere. so i go leave this one

ijawkid: Since no other shelter to stay(as your love for paganism has imagined that only a juju shrine would be available in that area) then fine no wahala........

Thank you sir. you've agreed that my prayers will he heard. meaning God was present at the shrine and at the time i was praying, that shrine was no different from a church/kingdom hall imagine it was zikkyy and his farm workers taking shelter from the rain and having praise worship at the shrine. we can even cast and bind if required you can see that God does not hate shrines, what he hates are the pagan activities that goes on in the shrine, just as he would turn his back on occupants of a kingdom hall if it was used for sango worship.

ijawkid: How does this your analogy support your stance on easter??.........

Intention matters. God hearing and accepting my prayers while i was seated on that evil sango stool is an indication that am his focus, not the building and its contents.

ijawkid: .....if we follow your analogy then we shouldn't even be seeing professed christians observing easter that has now become a permanent custom...

i don't understand

ijawkid: ...and from your analogy I can conclude that you agree that easter indeed does have its root in paganism.....

It depends on what you meant by easter. if you are referring to Ishtar or eaostre, i will say yes. but if you are referring to the celebration of Jesus resurrection (what mr. Ube referred to as pascha), i will say i don't have enough info to conclude. for me the 'root' of the celebration will be determined by the motivation for starting the celebration in the first place. meaning we have to go back in time to review the activities of the first set of celebrants. If the celebration of new yam festival in your village dates back 2,000years and some early english explorers about 150 years ago decided they loved the celebration and added their own spice (e.g. colored egg from eaostre and change the name of their version of the celebration to easter). the origin of new yam festival cannot be said to be rooted in eaostre worship. to discover the true origin of new yam festival we still need to go back in time to see if your forefather's celebration of new yam festival was inspired by colored egg and other acts of ishtar or eaostre worship. That kind of info will enable me reach a conclusion on the origin of easter or pascha.

ijawkid: And my problem is why can't you trek inside that rain to your house just to make sure you had no dealing with a juju shrine??..........you never thought of that scriptural option..........??......smh,,,,,,!!!!!

...and caught cold in the process? now i know my enemies

ijawkid: Please after you took shelter because of the falling rain(that won't kill you) did you go back to that shrine from time to time to pray to your heavenly Father as a tradition.....??.........

if there is a need for me to use the place next time, i would. for e.g if am being chased by a leopard and the sango shrine is the only building available for hiding abi you want me to wait and cast out the spirit of madness and hunger from the leopard?

Freksy: As sugar attracts ants, so do your celebrations attract pagan practices. Your pagan neighbor knew exactly when to offer those things.

I told you my neighbor celebrated every holiday using it as an opportunity to worship/sacrifice to his gods. "every holiday" includes the non religious like workers day and independence day. as expected you missed the message and focused instead on what suits your agenda. Its a waste of time discussing with you if you are not going to read my posts.

Freksy: I knew you won't be comfortable with those posts. Truth can never be hidden. I will keep posting them till you lay those eggs. Since you are so knowledgeable as you boast, why not present, at least, a single line of scriptural proof to show that Easter is scriptural, and not pagan. If those customs are not pagan, why did some attempted to get rid of them? See the quote below and cry as usual. "Eating special buns at the festival of the pagan goddess Eostre has long been an established custom among the natives of Britain. Early Christian missionaries who tried to stop this practice got nowhere. Eventually.... converts ... were permitted to continue eating buns at the time of the spring festival...."

for someone that have never seen an Easter egg, bunny or Easter buns, what would make me uncomfortable? you don't even know if i celebrate Easter!

Freksy: Since you are so knowledgeable as you boast,

even when i kept repeating that i don't have a clue, you come up with comment like the one above i see that i have been wasting my time with you. am sure it is stated in the checklist you are reading from that the opposition will boast that he/she is very knowledgeable. it's becoming obvious am not discussing with an adult.

Freksy: why not present, at least, a single line of scriptural proof to show that Easter is scriptural, and not pagan. If those customs are not pagan, why did some attempted to get rid of them?

i don't claim to rely on precedence in my daily living. am guided by the instructions/commands/teachings/events in the scripture to distinguish good and acceptable behaviors from bad. of course this cannot be done without the holy spirit as your guide.

Freksy: why not present, at least, a single line of scriptural proof to show that Easter is scriptural, and not pagan. If those customs are not pagan, why did some attempted to get rid of them?

if you ever bothered to read my posts, you would observe that nobody been arguing with you over the origin of egg, bunny or buns. is anybody saying colored egg was never used by pagans?