₦airaland Forum

Image123: Jesus is under the Melchisedek type priesthood.

If this is what you believe, no wahala.

Image123: i wonder how you came up with the terms and conditions though.

simple. You said Jesus is under the Melchizedek type priesthood, so therefore he must collect tithe because priests under this type of priesthood collects tithe. abi no be so you talk? and we know priests under this type of priesthood don't use intermediary to collect tithe. If you don't know, melchizedek left his temple/palace to meet Abraham at the valley of shaveh to collect his tithe, he did not send anybody. This is how priest under this priesthood collects their tithe. So Jesus cannot use intermediary to collect his tithe o!

If you say an intermediary can collect tithe on behalf of Christ (a deviation from the standard under melchizedek type priesthood), your assertion that Jesus must collect tithe (because Melchi collected tithe) cannot be correct.

Image123: Stop being manipulative, your fellows insist that carpenters and co never gave tithes.

You mean carpenters never tithed carpentry income. If a carpenter tithe his farm produce, he will tithing as a farmer not as carpenter.

Image123: They are yet to agree on the possibility that Jesus and the apostles may have paid tithes.

Do you have evidence?

Image123: Please show me/the forum where the command says farm produce ONLY.

Read the reference below one more time. Do you see a command to tithe cash?

Leviticus 27:30-33 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord. 33 No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.’”

Image123: There is nothing called God's tithe.

Really? can you explain the bit in blue color...

Leviticus 27:30-33 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord. 33 No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.’”

Image123: The word of God simply refers to a tenth as tithe.

Oga, all tenths cannot be tithe na! the above cannot be correct. Tithe in the bible is always a tenth part of something or the tenth item. For Abraham it was war boot.y, for the Israelite it was farm produce.

^^ No wahala.

Image123: Tithe has always been of INCOME. Abraham tithed from his INCOME after the war. The Israelites tithed from their income at the harvest.

Tithe was never income, it was agric produce. and Abraham was not in the business of 'reaping' spoils of war. It was possible for the farmers to sell part of their produce for the purpose of purchasing other necessities, the sales proceed was never tithed.

Image123: 10. LIE NUMBER TEN

This lie assumes that Abraham's tithe was not biblical. But we do see instances where tithe was given of more than just agric produce in the Bible.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
(ASV) I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get.

(BBE) Twice in the week I go without food; I give a tenth of all I have.

(CEV) I go without eating for two days a week, and I give you one tenth of all I earn."

(Darby) I fast twice in the week, I tithe everything I gain.
(GNB) I fast two days a week, and I give you one tenth of all my income.'

(ISV) I fast twice a week, and I give a tenth of my entire income.'

The word "all" used in the original is 'pas' and it means ALL,EVERY, ANY, WHOLE. The word "possess" is 'ktaomai' and it means GET, ACQUIRE, POSSESS, OBTAIN. So basically, the tithe here is given of ALL and ANY and EVERY thing GOTTEN, or OBTAINED.

Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Gen 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Evidently, there was nothing strange about giving tithes of ALL. Nobody made it strictly or solely agric produce except selective readers of the Bible.

Image123, you are relying on one of Jesus tales by moonlight to prove that tithe was more than just agric produce Na wa for you You see an instance of a jew giving more than just agric produce and it becomes your justification for asking for tithe of raw cash. BTW did God command that Jews fast twice a week? the answer is NO!, did God command that Jews tithe everything they own? the answer is NO! this was a clear case of 'over-sabi' or ITK and Jesus was not impressed (and i don't see any reason why i should be impressed). to think you rely on this tale to justify ya tithe of raw cash. image123 you no dey try at all

Image123: There was no levite when Abraham and Jacob gave tithe or said to tithe. Tithe does not have to be given to levites only. By the way, we are not under the levitical priesthood but under Jesus, who is a priest after the order of Melchisedek. Melchisedek received tithes.

No wahala. also note that under Melchisedek type priethood, the highpriest is physically present to receive the tithe. i.e. no intermediary so if you must give tithe to Jesus because 'Melchisedek received tithes', you will have to borrow ya pastor's private jet to deliver the tithe to Jesus (that's assuming you are not a pastor )

Image123: The question now is, IS THERE STILL SERVICE IN THE HOUSE OF GOD OR CHURCH TODAY? Because that is the PURPOSE for the tithe, that there may be meat in God's house. That purpose still exists and can be met using the same principle.

So you even know the purpose of the tithe There is nothing wrong with the 'church' agreeing to a donation amounting to 10% their income as contribution to funding the church project(s). But it should not be referred to as God's tithe.

Image123: Everybody knows that the Bible times were an agrarian society. Their main source of income was agric based dominated. One could easily be butchers, bakers, stone and brick masons, artificers of brass, lawyers, judges, soldiers, tentmakers, sellers of expensive cloths, etc and still tithe. We all know that scribes and pharisees tithed, Jesus Himself said so. The scribes are the intelligent, literate and educated class of society. Same thing with the high and ruling class pharisees. These people still tithed. So what excuse has the lower class. Potiphar for instance shows how a soldier can still have fields.
Gen 39:1 And Joseph was brought down to Egypt; and Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh, captain of the guard, an Egyptian, bought him of the hands of the Ishmaelites, which had brought him down thither.
Gen 39:4 And Joseph found grace in his sight, and he served him: and he made him overseer over his house, and all that he had he put into his hand.
Gen 39:5 And it came to pass from the time that he had made him overseer in his house, and over all that he had, that the LORD blessed the Egyptian's house for Joseph's sake; and the blessing of the LORD was upon all that he had in the house, and in the field.

Potiphar had field even as an officer.

Atleast you agree that itis possible for soldiers, lawyers e.t.c to have field for part-time farming. If soldiers tithed, be sure it was farm produce and nothing more. That was the command; farm produce only.

God specified the type of sea food that was edible, he specified the types of wild animals & birds that edible. What we did not read him say was that fisher men should tithe their fish; we don't read him saying hunters should tithe their bushmeat, yet Israelite made gains from fishing and hunting. So its not just about vegetables and animals, it was about farm produce.

Image123: 3. LIE NUMBER THREE

There is no such term as 'biblical tithing' or 'monetary tithing'. The Bible makes no such demarcations or segregations. This beautiful nonsense is a product of vain imaginations and theologists who hope to confuse the unsuspecting. From Genesis to the end of the Bible, tithe is tithe, simply a tenth, 1/10 of anything or something. Hebrews, Matthew and Luke simply speak of tithes as tithes or a tenth. They don't talk about some biblical tithe or what not.

You can say tithe is '1/10 of anything or something'. what you don't know is that most 1/10th do not qualify as God's tithe (and acceptable to him). We are interested in God's tithe not that of man. You can keep your definition of tithe, we'll go with God's definition.....

Leviticus 27:30-33 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord. 33 No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.’”

Image123: The Bible teaches otherwise. The Bible teaches that ALL SCRIPTURE is divinely inspired and profitable, and that WHATSOEVER things were written aforetime have something to teach us, they are SURELY, NO DOUBT, written for our sakes.
1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Key word here highlighted blue

Image123: Tithing is not an ordinance written against you, it is for your own good.
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

interesting, image123 want us to submit ourselves to pastor's tithe ordinance image123 must be a pastor protecting his chop-chop.

JaaizTech: Now to Economics... Why Did Peugeot Manufacturing plants Fail

They lost market share. Their major customer (government) migrated to japanese brands.

Bidam: Very apostolic. The sole purpose of Christians is to reveal the nature and character of Jesus, money is down the ladder and should be used as a tool to further advance the gospel.Satan knows this and is using this weapon to divide the church.........

.....with pastor as intermediary

Gombs: The other day I saw on LoveWorld news what Joagbaje's church is doing internationally...impacting 40 million folks in Sudan with the gospel of Jesus... yes, 40, 000, 000...sponsoring 20 TV stations with the Gospel of Christ... Note, sudan has less than 5% christians.

Are you saying joagbaje's church converted 40 million muslims to christ embassy? what exactly is the nature of this 'impact'? wasting peeps tithe in sudan abi? una know how to lie sha.

anonimi: You are looking at things SIMPLY/ONLY from the consumer's point of view.
How about considering the businessman's/investor's viewpoint

Government policies should favor consumers, not kill them. i think the government should consider other consumer friendly incentive schemes for investors.

anonimi: They had power, which they generated themselves for so many decades before pulling out of MANUFACTURING in 2010.
So maybe it was not power the MAIN infrastructure problem that they had before their decision to fold up. That is my line of thoughts.

Do you know of any other infrastructural problem? i know it can't be bad road, communications is easier now compared to 90's. it's not raw material and plant/equipment maintenance (these are forex/xchange rate dependent). True they generated power for so many decades, but remember it was president Yar'adua that approved the complete deregulation of diesel (fuel for powering generators). am sure you know the implication.

anonimi: You MAY have a point but when you consider that you need power to INDIVIDUALLY supply the large amount of water from an industrial borehole the cost may THEN become significant.
A possibility i.e.

The word highlighted red is what am talking about.

anonimi: Why not?
Do you think it is because water makes such a small amount of the tyre making process or what exactly

because cost of sourcing the amount of water required is insignificant.

anonimi: Moreover, the lady said INFRASTRUCTURES, which includes pipe-borne water supply that is SOLELY the constitutional RESPONSIBILITY of the STATE government. Have we given thought to the fact that it COULD BE the worsening of the water supply situation since 1999 when Thief'nubu took over that led to the closure of their factory

Am sorry but water cannot be the reason for closing shop.

anonimi: That is why I said power is not the MAIN cause. It was part of the cause as the Dunlop Secretary clearly stated in her interview.
However the problematic power situation did not emerge in 2010, not even 10 years before i.e. 2000.

true power issue date back decades, but like you said the coming of tokunbo tires exposed the fact that it cost more to produce locally.

anonimi: I also know for a fact that Dunlop always had super-sized generators in its main factory on Oba Akran Avenue, Ikeja.

This was one of the major problem facing local manufacturers. Power outage at any stage of the production process will result in huge losses. Michelin did not rely on PHCN instead they invested heavily in power plants. The plants comes on in January and goes off in December.

ocman: please don't go there bikko! the field is large enough. i know you are being sacarstic.. we need competition in the auto sector so as to drive down the price to the barest minimum. guy i wan buy brand new German or Japanese SUV with 3m.

The truth is that the field is very small for now (i.e. cannot accommodate large number of players). Toyota coming to Nigeria is bad news for other manufacturers including Nissan and Peugeot.

anonimi: I quite disagree with you on the MAIN cause of their collapse.
Dunlop was still in operation in Nigeria till only a few years ago:

It was the UNCONTROLLED & UNRESTRAINED import policy of previous federal administrations till now.
Most of us were FOOLISHLY "enjoying" the cheap & cheerful aloku oyinbo/tokunbo aka second hand without recognising the FACT that it was killing our industries and FORCING our youth to cross the desert and dangerous Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean to become voluntary socio-economic EXILES in foreign lands where we are hardly welcome and our contribution to their own development goes barely acknowledged while we pose to our "unlucky" fellow compatriots still in our country as "diasporans"

I think you guys are saying the same thing. Local tires were priced higher than imported tires dues mainly to huge power cost.

eejo: falana lacks information do you know how much it cost to buy a military hardware ,....

Since you are better informed, maybe you can list the military hardware purchased in the last four months valued at about N970billion.

jking001: Nigeria has one of the lowest budget for defence in the whole world go and check and get your facts right.

Its not bout the size of the budget, Nigerians want to be sure the money went to defence. that's all.

EasternLeopard: Are you sure.

See the bit highlighted in red below....

AdelokikiMr: He said, “The request made by President Jonathan for approval of the Senate for a loan of $1 bn to fight the menace of the Boko Haram sect should be rejected in its entirety. Between 2010 and 2013 over N3tn was budgeted for defence.

“Under the Appropriation Bill signed into law on May 23 this year, 20 per cent of the entire federal budget i.e. the sum of N968.127bn out of N4.962tn was earmarked for defence. The Senate should find out what happened to the defence budget in the middle of the year to warrant a supplementary budget of N160bn.”

luvinhubby: His grouse, i believe, is on the N970billion spent last year on defence,

Not last year, the budget was approved less than two months ago. How do you spend N970billion in less than four months?

mencade5: yes jonathan has failed because buhari and his men have vowed to make his government ungovernable.

its not the fault of buhari. If Jonathan has failed, its due to his incompetence.

Bokoharam: Why do Nigerians so much attack Goodluck today? Don't we think this man is a victim of previous, wicked leaderships?

Ngasky: Jonathan is his own biggest enemy.

Best answer.

motif8: On the issue of corruption he did not start it and i want you to prove me wrong on that,

The fact that he did not start corruption does not mean he should make it worse.

motif8: what he can do which he is doing gradually is to strengthen our judicial system, make a stiffer law against corruption which they are doing gradually.

Whta exactly is the president doing to strengthen our judicial system?

motif8: what he can do which he is doing gradually is to strengthen our judicial system, make a stiffer law against corruption which they are doing gradually.

The situation we are in today is not due to absence of law. also note that the law on its own is useless if not put to use.

Gombs: James 4:11-12 ESV

Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, [size=16pt]speaks evil against the law and judges the law. [/size] But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?


Zikky, please explain the above verse for me... what Law was James talking about?

Why are you asking me to explain?

Bidam: I already told you that the whole counsel of God is a law to a believer as far as it is in genesis or revelation, it doesn't matter.

i need to get one thing clear here; are you saying the whole of bible is the foundation of rightness or wrong? because that's not what joagbaje is saying.

Bidam: The Op has made it clear from the beginning.that we get principles from the OT. Let me quote him again since you have a blind and contentious spirit.

Mr. Bidam, you cannot be shifting the goal post. we are no longer discussing the OP, we are discussing your comment that "The Holy Spirit does not contradict. What He said in the Old is still relevant in the New"

Besides we can no longer be discussing the OP if you rely on the bible (from genesis to revelation) for foundational knowledge. Joagbaje says we rely on the law for foundational knowledge. and by law, he was not referring to the bible. we can read this from the OP.....He stated that he was "amazed at the extreme we go in the condemnation of The law" and added this....."The only issue with the law now is that a man cannot recieve justification by the law". nobody condemn scriptures, so joagbaje must have been referring to specific text in the OT. probably the 10 commandments.

Bidam: Since your stupidity is glaring for all to see i will let this pass. You can thank me later.

Okay.

Bidam: We can see Apostle Paul below quoting Genesis account as a LAW.
1 Corinthians 14:34.
Amplified Bible (AMP)
34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also says.
This was taken from Gen 3:16 account.
Genesis 3:16
Amplified Bible (AMP)
16 To the woman He said, I will greatly multiply your grief and your suffering in pregnancy and the pangs of childbearing; with spasms of distress you will bring forth children. Yet your desire and craving will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.

How did you know Paul's statement was taken from Gen 3:16 account? when Paul stated something different in 1 Timothy 2.....

1 Timothy 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.