₦airaland Forum

Freksy: What you fail to know is that, some Easter celebrants do so ignorantly....

this is not news, a good number of 'so called' Christians don't even understand what Christianity is all about. same way you criticize without first understanding what people do.

Freksy: Speak for yourself and leave others alone.

...and you think you are not speaking for the people you accuse of pagan worship (including zikkyy). why not let them speak for themselves? why don't you let me tell you what i worship?

ijawkid: Your question will not make sense until you tell me why on earth a servant of God would insist on going to a shrine(wether the priest don pick race or not) to worship God that hates shrines......

with all the info i provided, you are having difficulty providing an answer and you were able to conclude that zikkyy worship eaostre without any form of info! why should this one be difficult for you? by the way what's the difference between a shrine, church and kingdom hall?

ijawkid: Why did you go there??..........wetin make of all the good places for the world na ifa priest shrine you wan go worship God.......??

Which spirit push u go there??.........

was trekking to my farm and it started raining, the sango shrine was the only available shelter. i even sat on the priest special stool (decorated with cowries and other stuff) to rest my tired legs while waiting for the weather to improve, am singing and praying. so what sayeth thee? will God reject my prayers?

truthislight: and the answer:



and your retort:



your have some issues my friend.

I no get your time

ijawkid: Hehehehehehe..............

The shrine no longer in use and the priest relocated??......hope the sango priest also relocated with all his juju stuffs,and utensils used in that shrine and also you cleaning the building.......??............


Uh??.......excpet you want to worship with all the cowries and oiuja boards around you............

You never answer the question. Will God reject my prayers? The priest left in a hurry, not enough time to clear all his stuffs

ijawkid: Why should you go to sango shrine in the first place??...........to destroy what ever is there or to go worship your heavenly Father??.....

I did not go there to destroy the place and I did not go there to worship sango. The shrine is no longer in use maybe the sango priest don get visa relocate abroad oya answer the question

ijawkid: The truth is zikky knows all about its history..but as usual with zikky anything goes.....just about anything and everything goes as regards worship of God..........even if it means worshipping God vicariously through sango,zeus, etc...

I did not plan on responding to any post you make till you answer the question you have been avoiding but I find something of interest in the above. So tell me, are you saying if I pray to God from sango shrine, God will not listen to or answer my prayer?

Freksy: "Amongst the Anglo-Saxons the month of April was dedicated to Eostre or Ostara, Goddess of Spring; and her great feast has given its name to our Easter. Here again the Church was quite frank about it, and Bede states that the feast in England was simply `the old [pagan] festival observed with the gladness of a new solemnity.'" - Paganism in our Christianity, Weigall, p. 261, Gordon Press, 1974 (Reprint of the edition published by Putnam, New York.)

Curiosities of Popular Customs explains: "It was the invariable policy of the early Church to give a Christian significance to such of the extant pagan ceremonies as could not be rooted out. In the case of Easter the conversion was peculiarly easy. Joy at the rising of the natural sun, and the awakening of nature from the death of winter, became joy at the rising of the Sun of righteousness, at the resurrection of Christ from the grave."

You are not saying anything. I asked that you show evidence that the first set of worshipers were celebrating ishtar. If you cannot do that, there is no way I can begin to make sense of your posts. Its the starting point. For you to understand how I view your comments so far, I'll tel bout an experience growing up in my hometown back in the days. I had this neighbor, a pagan that always wanted to participate in every celebration around him . At Xmas or New year celebrations he would buy goats and offer to his gods, pray to his gods. For him holidays were season you celebrate to your gods. He had two gods he was worshiping. You can imagine freksy coming to advise zikkyy based on his (freksy) understanding of my neighbor's activities. you cannot accuse me of worshiping my neighbor's gods. If you believe what I do is wrong you must address what I do, and not what you think I do. I don't see you can communicate effectively when you go about creating your own version of my activities. Like I said, you still have much to learn.

Freksy: It was a dcelebrate thing by the church fathers. They perceived that if Christianity was to conquer the world it could do so only by relaxing the too rigid principles of its Founder, by widening a little the narrow gate which leads to salvation. Pope Gregory I continued this defiling trend. According to Natural History magazine, "instead of trying to obliterate peoples' customs and beliefs, the pope's instructions were, use them. If a group of people worship a tree, rather than cut it down, consecrate it to Christ and allow them to continue their worship." Both Jesus Christ and the apostule Paul predicted that Christianity would be infiltrated by false teachings.

It was the policy of the early Church to give a Christian significance to the pagan ceremonies that could not be rooted out. In the case of Easter the conversion was peculiarly easy. Joy at the rising of the natural sun, and the awakening of nature from the death of winter, became joy at the rising of the Sun of righteousness, at the resurrection of Christ from the grave.

In an attempt to justify Easter celebration, see below part of italo's post. Judge for yourself whether it's not the same policy as mentioned above that was at work.


Most historians believe Halloween originated with the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced SOW-in, SAH-vin, or SAM-hayne meaning “End of Summer”). During this festival people would light huge communal bonfires and wear costumes, mostly comprised of animal heads and furs, to ward off roaming spirits and ghosts.
When the eighth century rolled around, Pope Gregory III designated November 1 as “All Saints’ Day”, this was to be a time to honor all of the saints and martyrs who had passed on. This new holiday incorporated many of the traditions of the Samhain festival.

{Think of it this way, it’s much easier to paint an old building and put up a new sign than it is to tear it down and start from scratch. This was nothing new and had been done many times before. For instance, many Pagan customs were combined with Christianity when Constantine converted the official Pagan religion of the Roman Empire to Christianity between 320 and 330 A.D.}
Now, the evening before “All Saints’ Day was known as All Hallows’ Eve and this later became Halloween. Over the centuries, Halloween has evolved into a secular and very commercial celebration embraced by communities as more of a child-centric holiday with activities like trick-or-treating or decorating your home to look spooky.

Read the following scripture carefully and pay attention to your conscience - is it saying the actions of the church fathers were scriptural?


"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers : for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness ? and what communion hath light with darkness ? And what concord hath Christ with Belial ? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel ? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols ? for ye are the temple of the living God ; as God hath said, I will dwell in them , and walk in them; and I will be their God , and they shall be my people . Wherefore come out from among them , and be ye separate , saith the Lord , and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you , And will be a Father unto you , and ye shall be my sons and daughters , saith the Lord Almighty." - 2 Cor. 6:14-18


You spend time creating your own version/world of pagan worship, then you put your target celebrant in it an then accuse them of pagan worship. You have absolutely no clue bout the activities opeople you are accusing. You should do away with what your church been feeding you and spend time reviewing the true activities of christian celebrants .the truth is that I have difficulty reconciling all you have been saying with what I observe during the celebration. You don't advise people if you don't understand their problem. It's very wrong of you to create your version of their problem and advice them base on that. You will achieve nothing. I think you still have a lot to learn.

Isn't it funny that you are blaming me for what your church fathers did? Zikkyy, it's true that i have a lot to learn, but how come you that have known it all are absolutely blank about the history of your celebration.

You continue to make the same blunder. There's no way Easter celebrants will take you seriously when you continues to speak in strange tongues. When I say you have a lot to learn, it's not just about knowing more information, it's also about your approach to showing people what they are doing is wrong. You have been talking like a pre-programmed computer that will repeat the same solution irrespective of what the problem is. I have done my best to give your thoughts on Easter a direction that Easter celebrants will easily identify with, but you continue to resist preferring instead to stick to the comfort of your world. In your long write-up above you did not say anything of relevance to the Easter celebrant.

Freksy: What single fact have you offered so far to prove that worshiping God in the name of a goddess, an idol, is scriptural?



New year celebration is about new year; new yam festival is about new yam; Christmas celebration is about Christmas; birthday celebration is about birthday. Easter celebration is about Easter. Who was easter? She was the pagan goddess of spring and fertility! Many of the customs originally used in worshiping this ancient European goddess are the same ones used today in celebrating Easter.



The spring festival was easter celebration. Amongst the Anglo-Saxons the month of April was dedicated to the goddess of Spring. The Roman Catholic Church once stated that her (Easter) great feast has given its name to our Easter. The church went on to say that the feast in England was simply the old pagan festival observed with the gladness of a new solemnity.

Now tell me, what else would you like to hear from me before you are convinced that Easter celebration is rooted in pagan.
Your 'mantra' about the celebration of the resurrection of Christ was just an add-on to christianize it. The origin remains the same, my brother.

Its very obvious you don't have a clue regarding the celebration of Jesus resurrection by Christians. You have not been able to show that the first set of celebrants were actually celebrating ishtar. You spend time creating your own version/world of pagan worship, then you put your target celebrant in it an then accuse them of pagan worship. You have absolutely no clue bout the activities opeople you are accusing. You should do away with what your church been feeding you and spend time reviewing the true activities of christian celebrants .the truth is that I have difficulty reconciling all you have been saying with what I observe during the celebration. You don't advise people if you don't understand their problem. It's very wrong of you to create your version of their problem and advice them base on that. You will achieve nothing. I think you still have a lot to learn.

truthislight:

Smh for you.

So, the people of Babylon were worshiping Yahweh when Yahweh had not started dealing with people of the nations?

Was it not through christ that the way was opened to the nations?

Why then was yahweh angry when the king of babylon made used of the utensils from Jeruselam in his celebrations?

Why did the three Hebrews refused to worship the babylonian Idol and Yahweh rescued them?

Keep deceiving yourself.

Look! Yahweh is not one to play pranks with.

Jesus took so seriously his dealing with Yahweh, in prayer, in speech and all.
But you are here playing Games, sorry guy, its no game.

Ishtar/easter is a demonic cum satanic worship fromstart to finish.

If you like, force Yahweh to accept a name that belongs to satan na you sabi.

Smh.

i no get your time. only because you are my friend.

Enigma: Today, two church groupings or organisations lay proprietary claim to the word "Catholic" - especially when spelt with a capital C.

One is The Roman "Catholic" Church --- this one is well known in the Western world and to Nigerians.

The other is The Orthodox "Catholic" Church (aka Eastern Orthodox Church) -- this one is not so well known in the Western world or to Nigerians.

Because the Orthodox Catholic Church is not so well known, many people readily assume that the Roman "Catholic" Church is the one, or even only, organisation entitled to the word "Catholic".

To many who know better, The Orthodox "Catholic" Church actually has a better (or at least equal) proprietary claim to the capitalised "Catholic".

1. It was they who coined the word.
2. It was at one of their Churches that Christians were first called "catholic": Antioch.
3. They were using the word before the Roman Catholics
4. They gave the word a particular meaning --- which is actually different from what many (especially Roman Catholics) now understand the word to be.
5. In the historic "Catholic" Church, in its original meaning as well as in its subsequent Theodosian meaning, they were actually the most active; e.g. they were the most active at Nicea (the Roman Catholics were very peripheral at Nicea).

As this thread progresses, additional material will be added to help lead to a better understanding and apreciation of the word "Catholic" -in both the capitalised sense and in the small sense catholic.

Bros, if these church go to war over right to use the name catholic, you go appear for war crime tribunal o!. if the eastern guys see this your write up now, and katakata burst, you will be held responsible o!

Freksy: Don't claim ignorance, you know these things.

you see the way you people think. too much assumptions learn to base argument/discussion on facts. why assume i know? the truth of the matter is i don't know.

Freksy: Why not put your question this way: 'instead of tracing the origin of the celebration of Jesus' resurrection, you are tracing the origin of Easter celebration'.

Can you prove that am celebrating a spring festival? more 'faulty assumption' and false accusations. you guys sit in the comfort of your living room or kingdom hall (if you are JW) and begin to accuse people you've never seen in your life not to talk of knowing what they do. what is my business with the origin of spring festival, when we are discussing the celebration of Jesus resurrection. You people go about creating your own version of a practice and accuse some others of engaging in that practice. that is not a good thing to do.

Freksy: "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ."—The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible (Philadelphia, 1944), by John D. Davis, page 145.

The origin of Easter is pagan, and will not change. The name Easter remains Easter, and has not changed from birth. Eggs and rabbits were associated with Easter celebration from the beginning, and they have not changed, therefore, your question is not relevant in this regard. Eggs and rabbits are not foreign to Easter celebration, look for another question.

the origin of the spring festival is pagan, what about the origin of the celebration of Jesus resurrection?

Freksy: Who introduced them, peeps? Who accepted them, non-peeps? Flimsy! I told you: name + traditions. Begin to trace them one after the other let see where they will take you to.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers : for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness ? and what communion hath light with darkness ? And what concord hath Christ with Belial ? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel ? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols ? for ye are the temple of the living God ; as God hath said, I will dwell in them , and walk in them; and I will be their God , and they shall be my people . Wherefore come out from among them , and be ye separate , saith the Lord , and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you , And will be a Father unto you , and ye shall be my sons and daughters , saith the Lord Almighty . " 2 Cor 6:14-18


Those things originated with pagans, and were associated with Easter festival of spring and fertility. They are not new things as far as Easter is concern. Don't claim ignorance, you know these things. Why not put your question this way: 'instead of tracing the origin of the celebration of Jesus' resurrection, you are tracing the origin of Easter celebration'.

This na one serious case!! i guess this is what happens when you argue from a checklist. all you have been saying here is that the origin of colored egg, rabbit pie and hot buns cake is pagan including the origin of the name easter. oga freksy what about the origin of the celebration of Jesus resurrection? is it pagan? if it is, kindly assist in tracing the celebration to the founders so we can understand. You are not helping anybody when you go about accusing people that celebrate Jesus resurrection of engaging in pagan activities. You have to help them by showing them the idea of celebrating Jesus resurrection is pagan!! it's a waste of time and energy trying to prove that some add-on are of pagan origin. If you can show that celebrating Jesus resurrection is pagan, you killed the argument!! it makes no difference whether they add holy water or anointing oil to the celebration, the ADD-ONs will not change anything!! let for one minute assume the name Easter is of pagan origin, and colored eggs, rabbit pie and hot buns cake is pagan and people you condemn decides to take your advise and change the name to something holy and they do away with the colored egg, rabbit pie and cake, will their action make the celebration of Jesus resurrection holy and acceptable to God? is that your problem? if it is not why waste our time discussion the origin of rabbit pie when we should be focusing on more important issues? for now i will assume your problem with Easter is the name given to it and that delicious rabbit stew and special hot buns cake You should know that some of the people you accuse of pagan worship have never seen an easter egg (though they chop egg regularly), they are yet to see an easter bunny (though rabbit stew has always been a special delicacy in some areas prior to the coming of the bible carrying oyinbo man) and they don't even know what hot buns cake look like not to talk of tasting it

Freksy: Notwithstanding the fact that religious leaders proclaim Easter as a Christian celebration - celebration of jesus' resurrection, it is still pagan. No matter when ester eggs and bunnies were introduced, they are still pagan.

na wa oo! you avoiding everything i have been saying and sticking with a written script. please show me where the original celebrants of Jesus resurrection called their celebration Easter!

Freksy: Origin of the name + origin its customs. Is that not what the above implies? Which one will be your proof, can't you defend your faith? Are you afraid?

"Origin of the name + origin its of the customs (attached to the celebration of Jesus resurrection long time after the celebration started)". Oga this is not what am asking you. tell us about the origin of the celebration itself!

Freksy: Easter celebration is pagan. It's you that have to prove that what you are celebrating is not pagan, not someone else.

There is nothing to prove. Kindly tell me how my prayers, praises and thanksgiving to God becomes a pagan act. cos i don't know.

Freksy: Which one will be your proof, can't you defend your faith? Are you afraid?

what has egg and rabbit got to do with my faith?

truthislight: ^ so daft a question!

The origin remains what it is.

Lords super = christ.

Easter = pegan. QED.

daft question and yet you provided an answer. daft answer to a daft question abi? and the daft response has exposed your insincerity. it has shown the silliness in your theory that the pagan name given to a celebration is what makes the celebration pagan. Anyways, for writing out of point (even you got the answer right)and wasting the examiner's time, you get to lose marks. so am scoring you 3/10 a daft score abi? that's what you get for speaking from both side of ya mouth

truthislight: When Adam went obeying satan God abandoned him since God (Yahweh) cannot shear with satan worship in any way.

are you saying Eve is satan? i know it was Eve that influenced Adam. I guess Peter was worshiping satan at the time he denied Jesus? How come God did not abadon him. You people don't even understand what it means to worship satan. That's why you go about making false accusations.

truthislight: There is no way Yahweh will go to Sango worship because of whatever reasons deduced.

Exactly what i have been trying to tell your freksy, your brother. unfortunately, you guys have been program to condemn without understanding what you are condemning.

truthislight: That you dont know the origin of Ishtar/easter does not mean that yahweh does not know and did not see its origin and it Worshpers appeasing satan,

You dey there? how did you know the worshiper was appeasing satan? .....and i think you should restrict/limit your teachings to what you know (like zikkyy have done), you don't know what God saw.

truthislight: That you passed such over to him later is very very short sighted of you and very very wrong.

You go about making false accusations when you don't even know what i do, and what is such behavior saying about you?

Joagbaje: CAn we all just leave tithing matter alone? Going o er same circle every year is not wisdom. Let everyone work by his conviction and persuasion .

Romans 14:5
. , ,. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

The matter dey affect your business?

If you want every man be fully persuaded in his own mind, why you dey support pastor threatening/deceiving his congregation with tithe preaching?

italo: Amen. I believe that we should not add or remove from God's word. But nowhere have I seen the Bible say that "the word of God is the Bible." Can you show me?

Nice! 1 like for you.

Freksy: The origin of Easter celebration will always take you to pagan, if you like try it a million times.

Then prove it. trace the celebration of Jesus resurrection back in time to the time it was adopted from a pagan practice. simple.

Freksy: I have told you, those eggs and rabbits you see in Easter festival do not miss their way at a.......ll! They know where they belong!

Lol are you saying you don't eat egg? what about rabbit stew

Freksy: if i may ask, how many Easter do we have?

i don't know o! but i do know your version/understanding of easter differs from mine.

Freksy: Can you prove that the festival supposedly designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ was also called 'Easter'?

I cannot prove o! If it was not called easter at inception, then the origin of celebrating Jesus resurrection cannot be from pagan practice.

Freksy: She did not trademark the name, but she trademarked her belongings, how can you reconcile that? The Catholic Encyclopedia tells us: "A great many pagan customs, celebrating the return of spring, gravitated to Easter. The egg is the emblem of the germinating life of early spring. . . . The rabbit is a pagan symbol and has always been an emblem of fertility."—(1913), Vol. V, p. 227.

Na wa o! who dey teach you this kind error? so the goddess get belongings? are you saying egg and rabbit are not from God again? haba! so when God made the rabbit, he made it as an 'emblem' of fertility? or when he was designing the egg he had "germinating life of early spring" in mind? So after all the work God went through bringing these things to existence, you are now giving credit to some goddess somewhere.

The goddess owns nothing! everything belongs to God. The problem is that men continue to put these things into inappropriate use. Using something that belongs to God in worship of other gods does not take away true ownership.

Freksy: Rather you are giving him pagan celebration, named after their goddess, an idol.

How do you prove that my prayers, praises and thanksgivings to God is pagan and directed at a goddess? did i sacrifice another human to God?

Freksy: Therefore, tracing its origin will always take one to pagan.

Do the trace and post your findings here. Just ensure your trace goes back to the very beginning. Don't bring evidence from the 8th century o!

Freksy: 2. You don't also realize that the popular observances were not originated with Christian, but pagans,

i don't know anything bout that.

Freksy: therefore tracing their origin will always take one to pagan.

you see the problem am having with you. Instead of tracing the origin of the celebration of Jesus resurrection, you are tracing the origin of colored egg and cakes. activities that were introduced after 700 years or more (i think) of peeps celebrating the Jesus resurrection.

Freksy: The following quote says it all about the origin of it popular observances. "...The popular observances that still attend the period of its celebration amply confirm the testimony of history as to its Babylonian character. The hot cross buns of Good Friday, and the dyed eggs of Pasch or Easter Sunday, figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now."—(New York, 1943), pp. 103, 107, 108;

The popular observance has babylonian character abi? all you need to do is show that this observances you refer to were also popular with the first set of celebrants. i don't think that will be difficult na?

Freksy: In answer to your question, if the Lord's supper was originated with pagan, like Easter celebration, adding eggs and co to it 'will amply confirm the testimony of history as to its Babylonian character.'

You did not answer my question. you set a question for yourself and answered it. We all know Christ instituted the Lord's supper, it is not an issue of "if". Please respond to my question. What happens after i add colored egg and rabbit to my meal, will my action change the origin of the Lord's supper?

Freksy: None of my comments, in any way, supports the conclusion you have chosen to arrive. To observe the Lord's supper the way it was divinely given means you observe it the way it was. My comment does not imply that every one would do it under an idol's name, hence the expression 'for those who would still ...'

We are saying the same thing. the problem i have with you is that you are not reading my posts. Read my question again below:

"If we change the name of the Lord's supper to 'sango' today, will that make the Lord's supper of pagan origin?"

and your response was.....

"The Lord's supper was divinely instituted, so nothing would change for those who would still observe it as was divinely given to them."

Nothing would change for those that observed as given by Jesus abi? so what are saying with response? are you saying the Lord's supper is now of pagan origin? maybe you don't know what it means to say something is of pagan origin. It means we can trace the root/beginning of that celebration to a pagan practice. so will changing the name of the Lord's supper to "sango" prove that Jesus adopted a pagan practice? i don't think so. What i read you say with your response is that it will not change the origin of the Lord's supper because it was divinely instituted. So no change of name can paganize a practice God recognize.

I want you to do the same the celebration of Jesus resurrection. prove that it started as a pagan practice (prove that it was not a variant of the Lord's Supper or some other celebration). and just like the the Lord's supper, you cannot prove on the ground that somebody change the name after 700 years of practice. you cannot prove it on the ground that some people modified the celebration 1,200 years later (i.e. easter egg and bunnies). You will have to go back to the very beginning and show the motivation for the first set of celebrants. To do otherwise will be to rely on hearsay or assumptions.

Freksy: My comment does not imply that every one would do it under an idol's name, hence the expression 'for those who would still ...' Observing it under an idol's name would make it a devotion to an idol.

...and my conclusion does not imply that 'anyone' would do it under an idol's name. my focus was on the impact the name change will have on the origin of the Lord's supper. i.e. will the name change imply that Jesus adopted a pagan practice? because this is what you have been telling me with easter.

Freksy: Again, note that 'Easter celebration' was adopted, not just the name, 'easter' as you think. When you transfer its name and transfer its traditions, tell me what is remaining.

...again i ask that you prove that the first set of people that celebrated Jesus resurrection used easter bunnies and easter egg. also prove that the name easter was used by the first set of celebrant. is my request that difficult to understand?

Freksy: The Lord's supper was divinely instituted, so nothing would change for those who would still observe it as was divinely given to them. There is no single sign of divine direction regarding Easter celebration, historically and scripturally.

Good! What you stated here is that a name cannot 'paganize' a practice if that practice is acceptable to God. a practice is still pagan if it is not acceptable to God, even if you call it God's supper, it's still going to be pagan. You can see the issue of the name is not relevant in accessing the celebration of Jesus resurrection. So we can now drop the name origin issue and focus on the practice to determine if it's acceptable to God or not.

Freksy: And you continue to give God what you are not sure of. Your refusal to admit the fact that easter celebration is rooted in pagan/idol does not change it from being a fact. Anybody can refuse to accept anything. It's a matter of choice, as you said earlier.

Why should i admit to something without evidence to support it. is that how you do your things? accept things based on hearsay? you are yet to provide proof that easter is rooted in pagan and you want me to just accept? no right thinking fellow will do that!

i don't give God what am not sure of! meaning i don't give God the origin of easter celebration. If am to celebrate Jesus resurrection, i will render to God thanks, praises, prayers e.t.c that, am sure of.

Freksy: The name changed to what? Who inclined your church fathers on the same table with the pagans that leads to the adoption an idol's name, the Holy Spirit? 'Do not become partners with those who do not believe, for what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship does light have with darkness?

i believe we have agreed that the name change cannot 'paganize' a practice, if the practice is acceptable to God, so we can move forward beyond the issue of name change, abi?

Freksy: So you don't know that those pagan customs associated with Easter were also adopted. You have seen paganism written all over easter, and still claim there is no fact. Keep touching the unclean things!

I can see you are a bit confused. okay another question; if i add bunnies and egg to the Lord's supper will that make the Lord supper of pagan origin?

Goshen360: but you go promise me say the book will be given FREE to people because FREELY you will be supported to publish the book abi you sef wan start to dey chop for alter ni?

before nkor? you think i wan write book for empty stomach? just as the priest of old lived off the stuff sacrificed on the altar, the lord has commanded that we Christian writers also chop from our writings/publications

Freksy: What I have learnt from your recent posts is that, it doesn't matter whether we are worshiping God in the name of an idol or not.

Don't conclude yet. The issue of name is not something i have given serious consideration. my focus for now is on the origin of the celebration.

Freksy: "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ."—The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible (Philadelphia, 1944), by John D. Davis, page 145.

Originally = with reference to the origin or beginning; before now.

'Originally' here as used here is saying that the term 'Easter' referred to the 'spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring'. The name was later used to describe the Christian festival designed to celebrate Jesus resurrection.

Freksy: "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ."—The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible (Philadelphia, 1944), by John D. Davis, page 145.

Originally = with reference to the origin or beginning; before now.

1. What is the origin of Easter festival? Is it from pagan, YES or NO.

It depends, which Easter are you referring to? the celebration of Jesus resurrection or the spring festival? If you are referring to Jesus resurrection, i will say i don't know. if you referring to the spring festival, the question is not necessary.

Freksy: In the book The Two Babylons, by Alexander Hislop, we read: "What means the term Easter itself? It is not a Christian name. It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven, whose name, . . . as found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments, is Ishtar. . . . Such is the history of Easter. The popular observances that still attend the period of its celebration amply confirm the testimony of history as to its Babylonian character. The hot cross buns of Good Friday, and the dyed eggs of Pasch or Easter Sunday, figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now."—(New York, 1943), pp. 103, 107, 108;

2. Is Easter the name/title belonging to a goddess, an idol? YES or NO.

It depends. the goddess did not trademark the name. you can modify your question by being a bit specific. For the Babylonians Easter may be referring to a goddess.

BTW, you are yet to answer my question.

Goshen360: So, on what ground does the Holy Spirit reveal the truth? On empty head?

no be today. It's obvious bidam been receiving revelation on empty head

Goshen360: I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE this project! I'm also willing to contribute HEAVILY!

mr brother, e be like i go write book o! na people like you pastors dey look for

frosbel: ^^^
Like you rightly said, it is sickening to see people reject the word of God in favour of money.

...same manner they will also reject your tract (in favor of money). you don't want image123 and bidam to 'hammer' abi?

ijawkid don run enter creek because of one small question i ask am you go answer that question anytime you surface for here o!

Freksy: It will surely make the name to be of pagan origin, if 'sango' is pagan. Worst still, if 'sango' is the name of a goddess, an idol, be 100% sure that worshiping the almighty, a holy being, in the name of an idol, will be futile. I am sure you knew this.

You did not answer my question. will the name change make the 'celebration' of the Lord's supper of pagan origin? don't dodge na! haba!

Freksy: If you have anything about the origin of the celebration, post and let discuss.

I don't have facts, that's why you don't see me condemning anything here. i work with facts. The thing is the celebrants told you guys the basis for their celebration, i think you can only condemn them or call them liars if you have facts to prove otherwise.

Freksy: If there is such a change, many sincere worshipers of God who knows the implication of that will repudiate the change, and will not take part in worshiping God in the name of an idol.

But it was only the name that changed na! and the god of thunder did not trademark the name! that name probably mean something good in Chinese or Greek or Latin

Freksy: 1. Originally, easter was the festival of sping in honor of the goddess of spring.
2. In 8th century Christians named their festival supposedly designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ after a pagan goddess, an idol called "Easter".
Summary: Easter festival originated from pagan. The celebration of christ's resurrection is named after a pagan goddess, an idol.

Naming does not equate to origin. we don't have enough facts for this. from information posted so far, it appears the name easter surfaced centuries after inception.

Freksy: 1. Easter is the name of the queen of heaven, a pagan goddess, an idol........origin of the name.
2. The hot cross buns of Good Friday, and the dyed eggs of Pasch or Easter Sunday, figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now...... Origin of some of its customs.
Summary: Easter is the name of a pagan goddess, an idol, "the queen of the heaven." Some of the easter rites, as shown in 2 above are of pagan origin.

If Easter or eaostre is the name of a pagan goddess nkor, the goddess trademark the name abi? it's the same people that named the goddess eaostre that is also withdrawing that name and using it for another purpose?

Anyways joke aside,i told you already so long as it was introduced centuries after inception, the so called pagan rites cannot qualify as evidence to prove origin.

Freksy: Since Easter is the name of a goddess, the queen of heaven, are those making offerings and sacrifice of praises in her name different from the man at Jeremiah 7:18?
God's anger was kindled against his people whenever they adopted these pagan customs. But those who adopted the pagan Easter festival were not interested in following the Bible. They Christianized the pagan cakes, so they thought, by marking a cross on the top of them, thus the hot cross buns.

There's not much difference between what you call pagan custom and custom of God's people (especially in the old testament you are quoting). I don't understand you sha! which one be christianization of cake again? are you saying you don't eat cake i think you are taking this thing too far. haba!! Lets consider that bible verse again:

"The children gather firewood, the men build fires, and the women mix dough to bake cakes for the goddess they call the Queen of Heaven. They also pour out offerings of wine to other gods, in order to hurt me." Jeremiah 7:18 The Goodnews Catholic Bible (GNTCE)

If you take time to read the quote above, you will see that God is not angry that they gathered firewood, he is not angry that they build fires, he is not angry that they baked cakes, he is not angry that they poured out offerings of wine. The only thing annoying the Almighty is the fact that the actions were directed at other gods "in order to hurt God". the pagan activity in that bible quote is the worship of other gods. The theory that the use of any material is a sin because pagans used it cannot hold, unless the materials used is clearly forbidden by God.

Freksy: Far be it! Freksy is not happy with you, the reason is obvious.

Na wa ooh! it cannot be that bad na!

Freksy: However, we can go back prior to the time your church fathers adopted an idol name for their christianized Passover supposedly designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ - a thing they were not told to do.

...and they were also not told to avoid such celebrations. Christians are not robots. we have freedom to do everything good and pleasing to God, and God did not tell you he is not happy with the idea of people celebrating Jesus resurrection. the theory of "they were not told to do" cannot hold. If there is an embargo on celebration or rejoicing, i will understand.

Freksy: The said celebration did not originate with the tag 'Easter' on its forehead, it was later adopted by your church Fathers. So we can talk about how it got started prior to the tag 'Easter' on it forehead.

Now you are talking. you are stepping up to my level now. make i give you ladder to climb up

Freksy: We cannot discuss the origin of Easter celebration without the origin of the name, "Easter". The origin of the name 'Easter' is very crucial to knowing what the celebration is all about and how it got started. For example, if Easter is the name of a pagan goddess, an idol, that will simply tell you that Easter is the name of a pagan goddess, and thus, the celebration is in the name of an idol.

I maintain that the origin of the name is not relevant to our discussion. The origin of the name can only be 'admitted' as evidence if that was the name given to the celebration at inception. If we change the name of the Lord's supper to 'sango' today, will that make the Lord's supper of pagan origin? i tell you forget the name unless we can use it to prove the origin, but this is not the case. it appears the celebration became known by that name centuries later.

Freksy: You think it's not obvious who is afraid? What prevents you from commenting under each of those references you claim is not true and stop this 'circle dance'?

You want me to leave comment under irrelevant references? well, if leaving comment will make you happy, find below my comments:

Freksy: The Catholic Encyclopedia tells us: "A great many pagan customs, celebrating the return of spring, gravitated to Easter. The egg is the emblem of the germinating life of early spring. . . . The rabbit is a pagan symbol and has always been an emblem of fertility."—(1913), Vol. V, p. 227.

Okay some pagan customs ended up being part of easter celebrations. Is this reference telling us that the pagan customs listed above were part of the celebration at inception? No! is this evidence to proof that easter originated from pagan worship? No! We should discard? YES!

Freksy: "Everywhere they hunt the many-colored Easter eggs, brought by the Easter rabbit. This is not mere child's play, but the vestige of a fertility rite, the eggs and the rabbit both symbolizing fertility."—Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore Mythology and Legend (New York, 1949), Volume 1, page 335.

Okay people were hunting for colored easter eggs and it was not child's play. we don hear/read. Is the reference telling us that hunting for colored eggs was part of easter celebration at inception? No! Evidence that easter is of pagan origin? No! Discard? Yes

Freksy: "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ."—The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible (Philadelphia, 1944), by John D. Davis, page 145.

Okay, this one is saying that some Anglo-saxon guys migrated the Easter name to the Christian festival "designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ". "designed" being the keyword here. The Christian festival was "designed" to celebrate Jesus resurrection. All they moved was just the name. is this evidence to proof that easter originated from pagan worship? No! We should discard? YES!

Freksy: In the book The Two Babylons, by Alexander Hislop, we read: "What means the term Easter itself? It is not a Christian name. It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven, whose name, . . . as found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments, is Ishtar. . . . Such is the history of Easter. The popular observances that still attend the period of its celebration amply confirm the testimony of history as to its Babylonian character. The hot cross buns of Good Friday, and the dyed eggs of Pasch or Easter Sunday, figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now."—(New York, 1943), pp. 103, 107, 108;

Okay, the name easter is not a Christian name. no wahala. is this evidence to proof that easter originated from pagan worship? No! We should discard? SURE!

Freksy: "The children gather firewood, the men build fires, and the women mix dough to bake cakes for the goddess they call the Queen of Heaven. They also pour out offerings of wine to other gods, in order to hurt me." Jeremiah 7:18 The Goodnews Catholic Bible (GNTCE)

Hmmm. A quote from the book Jeremiah. Dem don begin celebrate easter that time? are you saying easter celebrant actually bake cakes for the goddess they call queen of heaven? How is this related to the celebration of Jesus resurrection? is this fact to prove that easter originated from pagan worship? No! We should discard? SURE!

Freksy: Easter Bunny
In Europe, the hare has long been a traditional symbol of Easter. (In North America, the animal is a rabbit—a close relative of the hare.) Yet The New Encyclopædia Britannica explains that the hare was "the symbol of fertility in ancient Egypt." Thus when children hunt for Easter eggs, supposedly brought by the Easter rabbit, "this is not mere child's play, but the vestige of a fertility rite."—Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend, volume 1, page 335.

Okay the hare has been a traditional symbol of Easter in Eurpoe and was a symbol of fertility in ancient Egypt. so how is this related to the celebration of Jesus resurrection? is this fact to prove that easter originated from pagan worship? No! We should discard? SURE!

Freksy: Easter Eggs
"Easter is a religious holiday, but some of its customs, such as Easter eggs, are likely linked to pagan traditions. The egg, an ancient symbol of new life, has been associated with pagan festivals celebrating spring. From a Christian perspective, Easter eggs are said to represent Jesus' emergence from the tomb and resurrection. Decorating eggs for Easter is a tradition that dates back to at least the 13th century, according to some sources. One explanation for this custom is that eggs were formerly a forbidden food during the Lenten season, so people would paint and decorate them to mark the end of the period of penance and fasting, then eat them on Easter as a celebration...."
http://www.history.com/topics/easter-symbols (Through your link, http://www.history.com/topics/history-of-easter)

Okay, some of easter customs are likely linked to pagan traditions. Your reference also says that egg decoration date back to 13th century. that's centuries after peeps started celebrating easter. Is the reference telling us that egg decoration was part of easter celebration at inception? No! Evidence that easter is of pagan origin? No! Discard? SURE!

Freksy: "The Bible makes no mention of a long-eared, short-tailed creature who delivers decorated eggs to well-behaved children on Easter Sunday; nevertheless, the Easter bunny has become a prominent symbol of Christianity's most important holiday. The exact origins of this mythical mammal are unclear, but rabbits, known to be prolific procreators, are an ancient symbol of fertility and new life... " http://www.history.com/topics/easter-symbols (Through your link, http://www.history.com/topics/history-of-easter)

Okay, the bible did not talk about rabbits delivering eggs to well-behaved children. so what is this telling us? Is the reference telling us that this custom was part of easter celebration at inception? No! Evidence that easter is of pagan origin? No! Discard? SURE!

Freksy: Easter Candy
"Easter is the second best-selling candy holiday in America, after Halloween. Among the most popular sweet treats associated with this day are chocolate eggs, which date back to early 19th century Europe. Eggs have long been associated with Easter as a symbol of new life and Jesus' resurrection. Another egg-shaped candy, the jelly bean, became associated with Easter in the 1930s (although the jelly bean's origins reportedly date all the way back to a Biblical-era concoction called a Turkish Delight)...."
www.history.com/topics/easter-symbols (Through your link, http://www.history.com/topics/history-of-easter)

Your reference is telling us easter candy started in the 1930s, can you also provide the date peeps started celebrating easter so we can compare? Is the reference telling us that this custom was part of easter celebration at inception? No! Evidence that easter is of pagan origin? No! Discard? SURE!

Freksy: Easter Parade
"In New York City, the Easter Parade tradition dates back to the mid-1800s, when the upper crust of society would attend Easter services at various Fifth Avenue churches then stroll outside afterward, showing off their new spring outfits and hats...." http://www.history.com/topics/easter-symbols (Through your, link http://www.history.com/topics/history-of-easter)

Parade date back to mid-1800s. okay we don hear

Mr. Freksy, i hope you are happy now can we go back to discussing the origin of the easter celebration? or we can conclude that we don't know much about the origin. If you agree to this conclusion (meaning i don't expect to read you shouting that easter originated from paganism), maybe we can move on to discussiing the issue of the ADD-ONs you listed.

Freksy: Your comment shows you did not read through my post from top to bottom. Has it occurred to you that i made, at least, four quotations, each with references before those online links? Are you saying not even one of them talks about the origin of the name "easter" in christianity? Like i told you before, your failure to see does not mean others do not.

Oga freksy, please make up your mind! I don't like discussions without focus. What exactly is your issue with easter? is it the origin of the name "Easter"? or is it the origin of the celebration itself? my initial understanding was that we were discussing the origin of the easter celebration. wetin concern this discussion with the origin of the name "Easter"? that's a totally different topic sir.

Freksy: What have you seen, those customs as originating from the bible? Can you point out to us how any of them is related to the resurrection of Christ? There are numerous online sites that discusses the origin of various Easter customs you see today, of this you know. I intentionally restricted my online references to that provided by italo, to minimize argument. Can you please leave your comments under each of those references to enable others examine your counterclaims, and know who is telling the truth?

Please note that your failure to see the truth regarding the origin of those aforementioned customs associated with Easter celebration today, does not mean others have not.

You are not saying anything. If your church group have something against Easter celebration, i expect you should be able to do your research and come up with your conclusions especially when your church did not provide info on how they arrived at such conclusion.

Freksy: What have you seen, those customs as originating from the bible? Can you point out to us how any of them is related to the resurrection of Christ?

There are things i would consider before asking if these customs can be found in the bible. one is first asking the nature of people adopting these customs as part of their celebration. Are you going to consider a pagan that sacrifice a goat on Easter day to his god (e.g. sango), and prays to his god as celebrating Easter? Before you begin to condemn a practice first separate those actually performing that practice from those that uses the opportunity to do their own thing.

Freksy: There are numerous online sites that discusses the origin of various Easter customs you see today,

..and you are afraid of posting facts from these sites?

Freksy: Can you please leave your comments under each of those references to enable others examine your counterclaims, and know who is telling the truth?

what exactly are my counterclaims? no need me leaving comments on each of these references cos the references are not relevant to the discussion.

Freksy: Please note that your failure to see the truth regarding the origin of those aforementioned customs associated with Easter celebration today, does not mean others have not.

What truth? are we discussing origin of easter egg and bunny or we are discussing origin of Easter? if somebody decides to incorporate atilogwu dance in his celebration of the Lord's supper, that makes the Lord supper of pagan origin abi?