₦airaland Forum

Seun, thank you for deciding to appoint a moderator. We really need one on this forum. I think @nkc will serve us well here since he is based in Nigeria. Let me also add that I respect your decision to appoint someone based in Nigeria even though I share a different view. If you are not satisfied with @nkc, maybe you should ask for volunteers.

Regarding marginalising nigerians, we have suggested that VIN should be mandatory for vehicles from the US and if your vehicle is not from there, say so and you can be excused from posting VIN - simple. These same nigerians are all selling nearly 80% of cars on this forum from US. If we run away from confronting this issue of VIN, we will return to it in not too distant future as I assure you, unscrupulous dealers abound and that is the whole point of appointing a moderator. Why do you think these bad guys are so much against VIN number? - Because it will expose their dubious ways - why then should they be protected by not making it compulsory to post VIN of US vehicles? The credibility of nairaland dealers is being eroded by the day - we need to act quickly and stop the "bleeding". Making VIN number of cars from US compulsory will do the job - it will work like magic and cars from nigeria, europe and asia will not be at a disadvantage!

Nairalanders, please do not dignify the posting of @vin_checks with a reply. We all know he just came back from Cayman Islands!

Nairalanders, if Seun will agree to having a moderator, I will like to nominate Siena and according to the link above, if Siena is not free for any reason, I think we can ask for volunteers. I believe if it is good enough for the travel section to have a moderator, it should be good enough for the auto section to have one particularly because of the experience of the last few days.

My suggestion is to have 2 moderators so if there's dispute, we can have a second opinion even though this is a very straight forward case.

If Seun will agree, I will like to volunteer to be a moderator and let Inspired nominate the other moderator or volunteer himself. Nairalanders, what say you?

Seun, your decision is respected.

One thing though is that there is nothing to be neutral about regarding deleting postings without VIN number where seller has not declared this is a Naija vehicle. It's pretty straight forward isn't it. And if anyone feels cheated or undermined, he/she can complain by creating a new thread for that - I don't even think we will have that kind of situation. At the end of the day, the decision is yours and I am sure nairalanders will respect it.

Seun, here is the way I see it. I doubt it very much if there has been any vehicle advertized here on nairaland that did not come with a VIN number originally (I could be wrong). Be that as it may, I will suggest that any vehicle that is less than 10 years old must have it's VIN number provided or posting should be deleted. We can make exception for brand new vehicles which have no history. If a car is older than 10 years, government will not allow it to be imported according to the new law except if it's been used in Nigeria prior to being advertized in which case, VIN number will not be so critical.

However, if a car dealer claims this is a Naija vehicle (less than 10 years old) and has no VIN (which I very much doubt), let him/her say so in the posting and everyone will be aware that this vehicle they are about to buy has no VIN number and hence no history. We can start with that.

Seun, VIN stands for Vehicle Identification Number and I will be surprised if Nigerian cars don't have them, but then I am not sure. Maybe our Naija based car dealers can help us here.

The point is almost 80% or more of the vehicles advertized on Nairaland are from the US or Canada and they all have VIN. If we can prevent unscrupulous dealers from pulling a fast one on unsuspecting buyers 80% of the time, I think you would have done a great service to this forum. I am sure you have seen what has been going on in the last few days where it has been revealed that some dealers are rolling back odometer and deceiving unsuspecting buyers. This is really bordering around criminal activity to put it bluntly. I don't think you should condone this on your forum.

I think you should take responsibility and sanitize this auto section rather than leave it for buyers to be smart. If you don't do this, it would seem as if one is inadvertently protecting the unscrupulous dealers.

Seun,

This penalty you have given for non-compliance does not carry any weight as you know. May I respectfully suggest that penalty should be "postings without VIN number will be deleted by the administrator".

I am sure Siena will accept to be the moderator due to your busy schedule.

Romeobest, why are  you getting agitated? I am really amused by all these, I can't stop laughing!! - Somebody get me out of here before I roll on the ground!! Romeobest is going for lunch - please get me something from McDonald's Tastee chicken   eh, Big Mac Meal with sprite, 2 apple pies, 10 piece chicken nuggets and 2 kids' meal for my pikins

@Ikeyman00, we all know Yahoo now, at least he's come out to confess his sins. But this Romeobest that has just arrived back home in Inglewood California from "Cassablanca" in Cayman Islands is a different kettle of fish. Remember he's not a Nigerian and he knows Sahara Reporters dot com. We will need 7 days of "Awe funfun" (white fast) to make this guy repent o! I am beginning to think his case is beyond repairs.

@Igwe1, I am going to Cayman Islands on Western Avenue over the weekend. I will look for him. Once I find him I will let you know.

@Igwe1, haven't you heard that Romeobest is not a Nigerian? In fact, he's never been to Africa o! He does not know Phammyus or Yahoo from Adam so just leave him alone. Abeg

@Romeobest, hope you had a good time in Cayman Islands!  Did you bring back any Coconut for me?    

This is what I call America wonder!!

@Youngmill, I am not holding brief for Phammyus but I beg to differ sir! You cannot accuse without proof. You can make allegations or suspicion or innuendo but you cannot accuse yet. There is no law or requirement that says you should repaint a car with the same colour except when it's been involved in an accident - I don't get your logic here.

Until you see the vehicle and compare with the VIN number provided and then find out that the VIN number provided does not match that on the vehicle, you just cannot jump to conclusion. Nairalanders are too intelligent for that.

If your intention is to use your argument to make a case that VIN number is unneccessary, then I think that argument is weak, hollow and defies logic or common sense. You will have to try something better.

Nairalanders, I think we need to fair here. I went back to look at the original posting and it says "Last reported odometer reading - 93,614". This is actually the last odometer reading as per Autocheck. However, it seems CARFAX is a much more current and reliable source and has more current information about the odometer reading and status of vehicles. I have always based almost all my analysis on CARFAX reports because I am of the opinoin that others are just not so reliable.

Based on these findings, technically Phammyus did not lie. It's just that CARFAX report is more current and reliable than other sources. Also, Romeobest did not lie with his CARFAX report. It is the conclusion of Romeobest that I did not 100% subscribe to because I do not have concrete proof.

@Phammyus, can you please throw more light on the colour of the vehicle. Did you re-paint it or what? This will help in clearing the air.

I will still suggest that buyer should cross check the VIN and ascertain that it matches that provided on the posting.

@Romeobest, no, I cannot prove it 100%. You know me very well, I do not make flippant statements. As the case is, I don't have concrete evidence yet.

What if seller claims he bought the car and re-painted it? How do I prove he is not telling the truth? Afterall, it is not a crime to re-paint a vehicle. What this means is that the only way to prove is to view the vehicle and compare the VIN number to the one provided for on the posting. It is after this is done that you can say for sure what exactly the situation is.

I believe in giving everyone a fair chance to prove themselves. If I want to grab hold of someone, I don't want to grab hold of the elbow - I rather prefer to grab hold of the arm. At this point, circumstantial evidence is just not enough.

Nairalanders, this might look like a case of 2 disgruntled dealers washing their dirty linens in public but there are more fundamental and far reaching issues here.

It is interesting that Romeobest has resurrected but be that as it may, I followed his (Romeobest's) link and it does appear that the VIN number Phammyus presented is for the vehicle shown on the link but that vehicle has been SOLD or TAKEN OUT of the market.  I did run a check on the VIN and found out that IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE MILEAGE SHOWN ON NAIRALAND IS RIGHT.

However, it is possible that the vehicle was bought from the dealer on Romeobest's link and shipped to Nigeria in which case VIN number provided by Phammyus is right but the mileage given by Phammyus is deceptive.

My advice is for any buyer to confirm the VIN number on the vehicle as advertised but one thing is certain, that mileage is not right. I can say without fear of contradiction that the odometer reading has been tampered with (if indeed the mileage provided is the current odometer reading).

Thank God for the provision of VIN number otherwise, this investigation will not have been possible. Once again, this is a good example of why we need VIN number on this forum.

@Samihook, see report below - There is no record of any major problem but it is worrying to note that there is duplicate title on this vehicle. That definitely is a question mark. I will suggest you inspect the vehicle and if it's ok go for it but make sure it is thoroughly inspected:

03/01/2002 20 ODOMETER READING FROM DMV

04/02/2002 REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL

04/12/2002 TITLE (Lien Reported)

09/01/2007 78,532 78,532

10/05/2007 TITLE (Title #:5168072782057) REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL

03/04/2008 TITLE (Title #:3594080644907) DUPLICATE TITLE

03/12/2008 REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL

@Jafour, I respect your view that VIN number should be made optional but I think most dealers here do not share that view. It will be interesting to know who are the dealers against this. If you have been active on the forum, you will remember that there was an opinion poll taken by Siena on this issue. The result is there for everyone to see.

Secondly, if you think vehicle with accident history (even if the smallest of accidents) puts the seller at a disadvantage then the next question is why will the dealer buy a vehicle with accident history knowing that it puts him/her at a disadvantage? There are more vehicles without accident history than those with accident history so, why go for vehicle with accident history? The answer is simple - those "accidented" vehicles are very, very cheap in America because no one wants them.

If a vehicle has any kind of accident history, I believe it is legitimate for buyer to be made aware of such. What is unacceptable is to present "accidented" vehicles as vehicles with no history of accidents. What we are asking for here is transparency and honesty - VIN number makes this possible. I assure you there is market in Nigeria for "accidented" vehicles that have been repaired and made safe but they just have to be presented as "repaired" or "accidented" vehicles.

Seun, car dealers in this auto section cannot thank you enough for this policy.

@busynet, there is no problem with a car having history of accident as long as it's been fixed. What raised eyebrow in this case is that the vehicle has just been declared as TOTAL LOSS as a result of accident by an insurance company. We all know that whenever you have accident with your car, insurance will fix and pay for repairs but when it gets to the point where a vehicle is being declared as total loss with salvaged title, it is not fair to market such as a regular vehicle - this car does not even qualify for CARFAX buy back guarantee so it is not the same situation as the vehicle you bought. I pray fervently that this will not end up being a coffin in jesus name.

I will leave the situation as is it is and let our conscience judge if what we do is the right thing. It won't be long before truth prevails.

@idupaul, did you read my posting at all? Please go back and read again. When you go to CARFAX and enter a VIN number, it tells you if it's valid or not and because the VIN number is about 17 characters long, their system is smart enough to know that sometimes numbers could be copied wrongly and so it proposes the nearest match for you. That was how the right VIN number was obtained.

The proposed number matched the car on sale 100% up to the odometer reading. I refused to post CARFAX report when @Igwe1 requested for it in order to avoid any heated situation and asked inspired to clean up the issue. You can go and read his reply. I don't think there's anything wrong with this. Do we have to wait until someone is killed before we act on this forum? Please go back and read my posting. You will see that I did not mean any harm at all and never came across as antagonistic. This market is big enough for everybody but we need to maintain our integrity for all of us to last in business. We are not in business for the short-term.

@Inspired, what you are doing is not fair at all. We are trying to clean up this forum and all of us will be better for it and now you say let genuine buyer request for VIN - what is the purpose of your posting the VIN number then? You promised to provide VIN numbers for all your vehicles and thank God you are doing so. But the VIN is invalid. I got the correct VIN number for you and gave you the opportunity to tidy up the situation and see how you reply. I am not trying to take up any issue with you because we still need your services on this forum. All I am asking is for us to do our due diligence and avoid posting vehicles that could end up killing innocent people.

Below is a snapshot of the CARFAX report of the car you are trying to sell - this car is a DANGEROUS CAR and has been declared SCRAP by insurance company. It does not qualify for CARFAX buy back guarantee, it has been involved in accident and has got salvage title that was rebuilt:

2000 VOLKSWAGEN GOLF
VIN: 9BWGA21J5Y4027526
Hatchback 4 Door
Front Wheel Drive

Vehicle serviced
Oil and filter changed chassis lubricated
Air filter replaced
Drive belt(s) replaced
Miscellaneous service performed
Engine serviced 07/18/2005   74,516   The Autobarn VW Countryside
Countryside, IL
708-354-6600

Vehicle serviced 10/25/2005   80,166   The Autobarn VW Countryside
Countryside, IL
708-354-6600

Vehicle serviced
Air filter replaced
Cabin air filter replaced
Manufacturer's recommended maintenance performed 02/17/2006   86,000   Illinois
Inspection Station
Chicago, IL   Passed emissions inspection 03/15/2006   87,810   The Autobarn VW Countryside

Vehicle serviced
Manufacturer's recommended maintenance performed
Engine oil system flushed 08/04/2006   95,708   The Autobarn VW Countryside
Countryside, IL
708-354-6600

Vehicle serviced
Manufacturer's recommended maintenance performed 12/26/2007   113,484   The Autobarn VW Countryside
Countryside, IL
708-354-6600

Vehicle serviced 12/26/2007     Illinois
Inspection Station
Chicago, IL   Passed emissions inspection 06/18/2008     Illinois
Motor Vehicle Dept.   TOTAL LOSS VEHICLE
Title or registration issued
to insurance company 06/19/2008   117,417   Illinois
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Bloomington, IL
Title #X8171693463   SALVAGE TITLE/CERTIFICATE ISSUED
REBUILT TITLE ISSUED
Loan or lien reported

@Igwe1, I think it will not be fair at this point to release the CARFAX report. Let 's wait to hear from Inspired first maybe he has an explanation - he may come back and say it's a mix up but let's just wait for now.

Inspired,

That VIN number is not valid - you may want to double-check. There is a VIN number 9[b]B[/b]WGA21J5Y4027526 that matches the description of this car. I will suggest you check the CARFAX report before posting.

If you have the option, I will suggest you go for Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mazda. I don't know much about Mitsubishi and availability of spare parts in Nigeria 'cos I don't live there. My suggestion is based on speaking to naija based nairalanders. All the best.

@Promise72, thanks for educating nairalanders about the process.

@Promise72 & co, am I missing something here? Are you saying you don't know the meaning of Sarcasm? Please go get a dictionary - My lord and my God!! You are still saying Inspired is trying to sell a car for me. I was only being sarcastic in the posting. Inspired helping me sell a car - that will be the joke of the year! I am sorry but I should be able to communicate on this forum as if I am speaking to fairly educated people. If my grammar is too big for your comprehension, I do apologize.

If someone who was believed not to be transparent and humble decides to turn a new leaf should we continue to villify him? What will be the purpose of that? If he has responded positively, humbled himself and even attempt to refund the gentleman for his flight should we continue to go after him? What is wrong in being fair to people we disagree with? Must they become enemies? Trust me, if this guy should go back to his old ways, we will be all over him. You have my word on that!.

@Pennywise, you could not have said it better. It is obvious that Inspired's tone is a far cry from what it used to be. No more braggadocious and haughty disposition. If he has decided to adopt a new strategy and turn a new leaf, I think it is fair to recognize and encourage that. Afterall, that is what we are trying to do on this forum.  Like you said, if he goes back to his old ways, there are many of us that will not stand idly by and let him get away with it. On this particular issue, I think it is fair to say Inspired has handled the situation with the right approach.

@Busy_body, thanks for your suggestion.

Nairalanders, I think we should let this matter rest at this time. Inspired has apologized for the mix up and he seems contrite. What more do we want? All we've been asking for on the forum is honesty, transparency and a little bit of humility. It seems Inspired has done all these in this situation and we should just let him be. CASE CLOSED PLEASE.

@Fhemmmy, sorry, you do not "declare" odometer in the US - Odometer is tracked by the system sir! That is why when you get CARFAX report it tells you last odometer reading and by extrapolation, it is sometimes mentions in there that vehicle has odometer issues/problem i.e. latest odometer reading does not add up.

We are not saying VIN is everything but it goes a long way in weeding out bad eggs ahead of time in very many instances.

@Siga, records of accident are not obtained primarily from insurance companies. They are mostly obtained from vehicle repair shops and dealerships (which normally have repair and collision dept.). It is only when you go to roadside repairers that records could be missed - who wants to do this and how much do you gain or save by going to roadside guys?)

@Promise72, please read my posting very well. l don't understand what you mean that I have vested interested in Inspired "selling my car". How can Inspired sell a car for me? So, if I have a car to sell, I cannot advertise it on nairaland but give it to inspired. Are you not aware that Inspired and I fought to standstill on this forum all of the last 2 weeks because of what I perceive as his unwholesome business practices? I don't even know what to make of your posting? I think you either need a lesson on what Sarcasm stands for or need to do your homework before making postings here. I am definitely NOT an Inspired supporter but that does not mean he should not be given fair hearing before "passing any judgement".

I really feel sorry for @Inema. This type of situation is what I have been fighting for on this forum for months. I don't know if Inema asked and got  VIN number for the vehicles he's interested in. Maybe if he did, that would have saved him a wasted trip to Lagos. Anyway, let's still wait to hear Inspired's side of the story.

@Babeisme, LOL. "hardmen" have to pray o. No matter how strong we think we are, we still have to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God. He is our protector. I am sure he was right there with you during the incident. I really like your spirit. Stay strong. It is well in Jesus name.

@Babeisme, To God be the glory for your life and that of your child! In Jesus name, that car will be found. You are covered with the blood of Jesus my sister. This is really shocking!! May God continue to watch over you. I will definitely keep you in prayers.