₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje:
People once alleged falsely that pastor Chris divorced his wife too,  But If this one is verified to be true,we should pray for him, It is an attack of the enemy.He is a great man of God.

What enemy? Get real, we are responsible for our own actions. If his marriage is falling apart, surely, he is partly responsible, not god, not satan and definitely not an enemy. Why are the religious unable to see that their heroes have feet of clay?
In Hinn's case, it is no surprise that his marriage is breaking down, the man is a supercilious prick. Only surprise is that the woman remained with him so long. I hope she takes the fool for every penny he stole from his followers has.

Not only a scam artist, but a crook, thief and conman, like all of them.

the first pertinent point i am hinging a large part of my stance towards is the fact that the pastor has never mandated anyone to bring a partner to be subjected to scruitny even though i personally thing a pastor should scruitnise a man who is trying to marry a sister in his/her church,but the fact of the matter is that most times when a relationship breaks down the pastor and the church is always the first culprit no one shouts the name of the man in question an example is uplawal's assertion that "a redeemed church in london" engage in all sorts of sexual vices even though the pastor might not have a clue such is going on or was being careful in other not to interfere.
for anyone that believes they are spiritually mature enough to choose a partner,then by all means do so without involving the pastor as long as they both agree and it is not in the church's doctrine to interfere but making a choice i will definitely support the pastor being involved because the reputation of his church is at stake,and he will also be the moral buffer and barrier for  a vulnerable sister who a player might simply want to take advantage of.
we have experienced a man who was a muslim and pretended to be a christian till he got married to the lady and then showed his true colours this was from the mouth and church of pastor fola alade in london

I fail to see why people think that pastors have any business scrutinising any one for marriage. It is not their business. How would the pastor identify a 'player', is it written on anyone's forehead. As for 'vulnerable sisters', is not not just an indication of how women are viewed in the pentecostal community - weaklings and descendants of Eve who require the headship of the males to guide them and protect them.
Whilst the "muslim man" was pretending to be a member of Fola Alade's church, what did he (Fola Alade) do about him? If he did not discover that the man was a muslim at the time, what difference would it have made whether he was informed about the attraction of the man to the lady?
The reality is that it is about control. the more the pastor knows about what is going on in his subject's congregation's lives, the easier it is for him to control them. After all, what these pastors crave more than anything else is complete obedience to the leaders' words.

selencious:
Hey U Poster!!! Why u so bothered? Re u "people"? Ain gat no biz with you. I gat nothing against what u posted. Im refering to people who are quick @ throwing insults on Men of God for whatever;I mean most Nigerians are quick at throwing insults on men of God. Even if you think they are fake, you don't have to beleive;but don't throw insults.

Are you married to one of these charlatans? You are very quick to defend them. Do you actually think before you type. If you think someone is fake, surely you would want to shout it from the rooftops. These guys are not harmless.

selencious:
Abuzola and the rest of Y'all jobless As***ls, go get a life and stop wasting your bad breathe over a biz that's not urs and will never be. Whatever is done by the church and the men of God has nothing to do with you.I hate it when dogs with no tooth barks. Don't u ever say anythng against Pastor Kalejaiye, the church or Pastor Adeboye;DON'T.
@Poster! I ain think thats any of your biz, if u ain gat nothing better to post, go do somethn better 4 your country-Nigeria. Peace out

I laugh with salacious thoughts.
Another mumu who dare not 'touch the Lord's anointed', whilst the anointed lives rich off the offerings of the poor masses. Would you not criticise a politician who goes on an air plane buying spree? Are Adeboye and Kalejaiye not human?
Mugu - fall for their tricks, just don't expect the rest of us to do the same. Does not the bible say 'it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god'?

Of course you should tell the pastor. you should also invite him to the matrimonial bedroom on the wedding night (that is if you have not done the deed before the wedding day fornicated). ;
I do not believe that people are so gullible. It is nobody's business who you go out with. If the pastor is unhappy with the fact that two members of his church are seeing each other, let him take a running jump, or perhaps a cold shower.
What else do they want to know - what you earn, how many times you fulfil the matrimonial obligations?
there has been a lot of unnecessary posts about the position of the pastor. People should remember that the pastor is just a man (in very rare cases, a woman) who claims to have received a gift. Of course no one can prove this, so all believers go along with it for fear of offending god.

How much for a prayer? Do the rates depend on what I want, for instance do I pay more for wealth than for deliverance from backache?

It seems that christians are very selective when it comes to the bible. They concentrate on intimacy. and women. There are other prohibitions in the bible which they very conveniently ignore.

Abu Zola:
Meaning we should not obey the bible. Lol

Abu Zola, why don't you take the massive log out of your eyes before you start looking for the twigs in others'. Your religion treats women worse than chattels, and you have the effrontery to criticise christianity's treatment of women.

Why do you want to know where god comes from? Why not leave well alone? As the theists will no doubt tell you, you are questioning god by even trying to find out where he came from and you do not want to question him. Apparently, it upsets his delicate constitution. You cannot question god (just like you cannot question my mother).

bola09, too true.

In the case of proliferation of churches and Nigeria underdevelopment, I think it is a reflection of our level of development. It will pass with time.

The question is when? If this attitude of deferral to the supernatural is allowed to continue unabated, it may lead to the disintegration of civil society.
This newish religious fervour is intolerant of those who do not conform to their various beliefs. Thus we have the riots in Jos lately. CAN has tried to play down the religious aspect of the riots, but, in my view, this just goes to show the dishonesty and moral bankruptcy of the religious organisations.

In the case of proliferation of churches and Nigeria underdevelopment, I think it is a reflection of our level of development. It will pass with time. Most Nigerians, even the educated ones often defer concrete solutions that affect them and, their environment to someone that they consider superior to them. That is while everybody ‘cries’ government when you asked them while everything is dysfunctional. What is lost to most of us (especially the educated), is that we are the government. The people in power cannot do anything without the consent of the governs but once the governs capitulate, the leader arrogate to themselves the power that they do not have and exercise it without decorum or regards to fiduciary. I know I have digressed but most of these issues are linked together.

There is a quote I found on the internet "Two hands working can do more than a thousand hands clasped in prayer." Whilst millions of Nigerian are praying in churches today (and millions more will be praying in mosques of Friday) for deliverance, good health, more money and so on, it does not seem to occur to them that the power in in their own hands.
Religion may have been useful at some stage to explain what seemed unexplainable and wondrous. Surely not today. As long as we put our future in the hands of God, we have no future.

verycute:
Pls is the poster a scientist. In his area, what has he achieved. Frustarted people will just go to a cafe with 100 naira to post rubish. Do Nigeria have more churches more than the US?

'What has being a scientist got to do with asking questions?

verycute:
what is the meaning of "what the hell" dirty language. If we have more churches than the US, the its a good thing. Before, do u want us to have more brotel and immoral bar and the likes, then you will say we are developing. MAY BE THEY HAVE MORE GAYS IN THERE AND ALSO IN EUROPE MORE THAN US. PLS THINK

What is good about having more churches than in the US? Nigeria is one of the poorest countries in the world. Nigeria is one of the most under developed countries in the world. The average church goer lives on or near the bread line. The pastors, on the other hand do well for themselves, even those most do not seem to have socially useful jobs.
As for your comments on gays, the following is a quote I found on the internet 'Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.' I agree.

Religion leads to mediocrity, yet religion lead the renaissance, it lead the Islamic Golden Age, it lead all art and culture that we have today, it lead Rome, Egypt and Mesopotamia, whether you think it's fairy tales or not.

Where is the Nigerian renaissance or its Islamic Golden Age? These things happened in spite of the religions, not because of them.

The Bible has not said Jesus will come on the xx date of the xx month, nor did Jesus himself say anything like that. Somebody claiming to know something like this is no difference than somebody claiming to have found the source of all matter.

Question- do you believe in the second coming of Christ? What is the basis of that belief? I hope that someone claiming to have found the source of all matter would have empirical evidence to present so that his findings may be tested and proved or disproved.

lomaxx:
@POSTER,
Your article may sound highly intellectual to many, but it has one reason too many to raise dusts.
   The fact is you don't understand christianity, so never try to complain about what you can't comprehend. In every good thing there must be fakes. Don't you hear about fake doctors, fake surveyors, fake lawyers, they're all over the place. so your view is very biased.
    You are relating d scientific prediction of eclipse with your acclaimed 'prediction' of Jesus. Fact is you don't know what prediction actually is. For your benefit nobody predicted Jesus would come again. It's a fact without any iota of timing<that's our belief>.
   Einstein was great, yes. but everybody can't be einstein. If every Nigerian were as scientifically inclined as einstein, who would ask questions and who would teach ?
   I really wonder what bias you have towards christianity, you claim that's it's the cause of mediocrity. maybe you never knew, every individual<irrespective of race, tribe, religion> is a creator of choice. you make the choice, you have d consequences. christianity isn't d cause of mediocrity, at least d word 'mediocrity' wasn't defined within the limits of any religion.
d article is so biased. i better hold my breath.

Why is any rational post considered to be biased? Of course, in order to explain its irrationality mysteries, religion tells us that we cannot understand. The article does not presume any intellectual airs at all. If you do not understand it you are stupid.
What is there to understand about Christianity (or indeed any religion)? That some bearded dude who has no beginning and no end decided someday to create the world as his plaything. He created man and woman and gave them dominion over all things, and immediately outlawed sex unless for the reason of pro creation. In the case of Christianity, he sacrificed his son for the sake of mankind (only it was not much of a sacrifice as the son was going to rise up again). What else is there to understand about fairy tales?
I am amazed that lomaxx now says no one predicted Jesus would come again. Either the fool does not read his bible, or all those mugus waiting for the second coming will be sorely disappointed (they will be anyway, but this is another story).
What have fake doctors, lawyers and surveyors got to do with the topic? At least, they do not claim to be on intimate terms with God, unlike the pastors people like lomaxx clearly look up to.
Religion does lead to mediocrity, one only needs to look at theocratic countries for confirmation of this proposition.
I wish lomaxx would hold his breath for ever. It would mean less mediocrity around.

Talk na do:
[table][s][tr]Where's daddy GOat (Pastor AdeBOLE) COME SAVE YOUR PIKIN O Grin Grin Grin Grin Afterall when he was sponsoring programs you enjoy the money 2geda! I so glad this happening to Erastus

we should mind what we say, if not

What will happen? If the GO accepted stolen money from Akingbola, what does it make him? A thief. What is the problem with speaking the truth? Or is it that we cannot criticise Adeboye because he is a clergyman? Our country is backward because these thieving and greedy pastors seem to be above criticism. They want a private jet, a member of the congregation gets them one, no questions asked.
In any other profession, people would questions about the source of such wealth. Not the fundamental pentecostal churches we have in Nigeria.

Every time another survivor is pulled out of the rubble, my nearest and dearest says things like God is great, god is wonderful, and totally fails to understand that a God who allows 200,000 people to die just to save about 138 cannot be good or wonderful.

JeSoul:
I made a very simple request that this thread be respected and no atheists post arguments or discussions THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR YOU! Have you guys no sense of decorum?

  AKO/Manmustwac thank you for cleaning up the earlier junk, can you please delete the offtopic posts again? Thanks.

If you do not want comments do not open a thread like this.

uchkochi:
Angels are real,i ve seen them work in my little life.At a time i was looking 4 something,searched everywhere but could not find it until i told my angels to get it and i found it in the most unbelievable place,at another time i was to lift up something very heavy,i remembered that the angels excel in strength as they are spiritual SUPER MEN.I asked d angels to help and i carried the heavy stuff without feeling any weight to d extent that i didnt want 2 drop it, Angels are real,put them to work,send them on errands and expect unbelievable results.

OMEGA CYBER MINISTRY.+2348052773865

Nutcase. Someone needs serious psychiatric attention.
But then last night I saw the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, Shiatan and Buddha drinking beer together.
I would laugh  , but I am worried about the sanity of people who believe this crap.

All believers say that you do not have to understand. The way of the gods is beyond human understanding, they say.
All you have to do is obey the leaders. There is a church in London which says that individualism is not encouraged. They want complete obedience to the elders.
I guess that individuals ask awkward questions and may want to understand. This cannot be allowed, surely.

Very amusing. I laugh in tongues 
Hocus pocus.

Mavenb0x:
@last 4 posts: Talk to my hand 

How very intelligent. When you have no answers, you resort to abuse. Mumu.

So the sum total is this - god appears to some people in a form he thinks they will be comfortable with.

Ndipe:
God cant be seen by any human. The girl is lying.

Which means that all those pastors who claim to have seen god or to have received prophesies from him are all liars.

Mavenb0x:
God speaks to man in a way that he can understand. He is not physically tangible, but he can reveal himself to any one who so desires in anyway he so desires; the same way mazaje can choose the words with which he wants to convey his expression. If the girl says that is how she saw God, I cannot tell maybe she is lying or she speaks the truth. This is because the way God reveals himself to her (or not) is her business, and God's business. And if she is lying, how does that affect my own faith? Even if someone says God appeared to him in the form of a black man, how does it affect my salvation? 

One thing that non-Christians never realize is that walking with God is a personal thing. As Jesus asked Peter when he wasn't minding his business but trying to evaluate another person's revelational walk with God, "Wetin konsain you?"

Joh 21:22  Jesus said to him, If I want him to stay (survive, live) until I come, what is that to you? [What concern is it of yours?] You follow Me!

@mazaje: What concern is it of yours? Whether he appears to someone as a Red Indian, Fulani or as an Eskimo, how exactly does that concern you?

I fail to understand this point. Either god speaks to man or he doesn't. If the being is not tangible, how would you know that the thing conversing with you is God. I you claim that someone intangible has been speaking to you, I would start doubting your sanity. Why should my reaction be different because you say that your intangible friend is God?
Besides, the images do not look intangible to me. This girl (according to her) saw a tangible being. Instead of interviewing her on CNN, she should have been taken to the nearest psychiatric facility.

Chuck D:
To The God-haters.

So far, so many of you (God-haters) have been arguing with those who believe in Him and even going as far as presenting videos to buttress your claims. No matter how much you argue, no matter how much you try to blind yourselves and turn deaf ears to what those who know He exist have to say, you still can never rule out the fact that He exist. Banish the thought; Yes! Someday, I hope, you will come to realize how wrong you guys have all been.

If creation was a myth, how come living organisms can't survive in other planets when it has been known that organisms are found in Antarctica and volcanic cinder holes at the bottom of oceans. If you think the environment existing in other planets is too hash for living organisms to thrive, then I say this to you: " The big bang theory should've produced a parallel life form that is well adapted for those environment and judging from the scientific age of our entire galaxy, that would've been enough to produce in the least, developed life forms.

The earth is unique because it was designed just like an Ipod is unique because it was well designed. please guys (god-haters, y'all know yourselves), this argument is worthless if you really sit down to consider what you're saying.

Let one of you show me a life form from another planet and we can end this religious thinking.

This is really a non-argument. The existence or non-existence of living organisms on other planets is not proof of the existence of God. The reality is that that no one knows whether there are other life forms in the universe. The creation story, one thinks, has effectively been discredited. Only the ultra fundamentalists still contend that the Genesis story is anything other than a myth. The case for the existence of God remains unproven
The intelligent design theory is just creationism wrapped up in pseudo science.
Frankly, calling people who do not believe in the existence of God god-haters, just goes to show the level of your intelligence. Believing in God does not mean that one has to be silly as well.

In quotes, never claimed it was mine.

wendytilda:
God is not the "cause" of natural disasters and suffering. He knows about them before they happen and He only "allows" them to happen for reasons that are best known to Him and Him alone. So it is sad that people conclude that God is the "cause" of such things. He did warn us about them though, in the bible. These are the exact signs of the end times that are mentioned in the bible, earthquake,war, etc. So it should not surprise us when things like this happen. God expects us to help the people of Haiti in times like this, not question His existence.

And please Christians and Muslims don't have the same God. Jesus Christ is the only way to the one and only true God!

C. Bleep

'Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?'
If he killed the people in Haiti, why does he need me to help the survivors? Why warn us when he decreed it to happen? As for the end times, man has been waiting for thousands of years - earthquakes have been going on before man evolved, and as for wars, well they have been going on since man arrived on the scene. In any event, more wars have been fought for God than for any other reason.
The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. -Abu'l-Ala al Ma'arri

Nosa 77:
@Zodiac 61

what's your problem with agbo? as far as i can see, he is just giving credit to whom credit's due

i tink he has done well to voice out, many are seeing d glory of God in tb joshua but too ashamed to speak out because of d way dey abuse am in d past. people in nigeria need to know what's really happening in d Synagogue
many have heard very bad reports and agbo just wants to shed light on d matter

you dat say dat tb joshua is a fraud and a charlatan, ok, where is d evidence?

May I start by saying that I do not have a problem with TB Joshua. After all, the man (like all other pastors) is a business man. The problem is with the mumus who do not see that they are being taken for a ride by fake miracles and prophesies and protestations of direct access to god. People are free to believe whatever they want, but it is not the business of our legislators to sing the praises of conmen.
"A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." Whatever it happening in the synagogue is not of god since god does not exist.

pmartins:
lf a senator can praise a man of God,that means he has seen the true light of God in him.and all what the senator have said inside this article are true because I have watch most of T.B Joshua clips on Emmanuel T.V how he normally help people through the works of charity. will need to embrace good thing in our land.

Your logic defeats me. So if I praise a pastor, it means that I have seen the true light of god in him.
Hmm. I am sure that there is some sense in there somehow. It just can't be found. 

Dream on

It appears to me that the poster is trying to curb freedom of opinion. No one should ever feel constrained in criticising ideas (after all, that is all religion is). To assume that ones religion is above discussion and criticism is the height of arrogance.
The religious do not hesitate to condemn those who they feel that their religions condemn (homosexuals, atheists, unbelievers and even people who believe in a different god).
Why should they be exempt?

smartmoney:
@poster pstbolanta nice post. You really got me laughing. Nice cooked up story i must say.

@231 nice pics man, i have always followed your stuffs here on nairaland. just finished your funny
names for Cars. Nice one too.

Now to all Nairlanders here, i really must say that we need to study our Bible and understand Gods
word especially regarding giving. You must not be compelled to give. But at the same time you must
understand the power of giving and sowing as well.

You can not be a giver, a sower and then remain poor. There is absolutely nothing wrong in sowing Seed. If you
have to give your last 1,000 naira, then that is fine. But you were supposed to tie your faith to your
giving. Dont just give it cos pastor has said so. Since he has already asked you guys to give it. then
your job was to make it a point of financial contact . In your spirit and your heart, you commune with
God regarding that giving and then take your mind off the pastors side.You start declaring your returns on that
money.

Did you ever get to water that your 1,000 naira seed? Infact did you even ever consider it a seed ? So
stop ranting if at all you give and dont receive. There is a lot more to giving and sowing you must study Gods
word before you guys come here to criticise men of God.

Did you not read of the woman in the Bible whom the prophet asked to give her last meal? She had told the
man of God(the prophet) that this was her last meant for herself and son to eat and die, then the MOG
told her nevertherless, go and prepare it and bring first for me to eat. She did so and gained an overflow.

What if that was in today. We would have said what a hungry pastor or prophet how can he even take from
the poor woman her last meal to eat for himself.

We must learn to understand how God deals.

I will tell you guys here a truth. in 2007 around April, i decided for joy and appreciatiion to God for the
kind of teachings and messages i was receiving from my pastor during Church services and through his messages,
i was so excited, i knew in my spirit i was a Changed young man. Somehow in that month, i made my first ever
bulky sum of over 780,000 Naira in dollars as my first bulky sum from my eBusiness. Though i had made in total
over $$80,000 in combined eBusiness from 2003 to that time of April 2007.

Now, having learnt Gods word, i gave all that over 780,000 Naira out to God as my first fruit offering having
been the first money from that very company. So, i wrote out the cheque and sent to the altar on a sunday service
I was excited in my spirit that i had done that. No body told me or compelled me to do so. You see as a young
guy of around 26 years. It was a bit abnormal, cos another guy would buy a small Honder Hala car lol. But i gave it to
God everything. Its called the First Fruit offerring.

Now after about 2 weeks later i had made over same amount of money. So, i decided to save to make it up over a million naira
which i did by saving . and finally i had gradually saved over 1,000,000 Naira (one million ) so i decided to write out a
check to my pastor this time , knowing in my Spirt, and in my mind that it was an appreciation to my pastor for all his
messages and teachings. So, i wrote out this check in over 1,000,000 equivalent for a $10,000 at that time. I gave to another
senior pastor to give the check to my pastor who was not easily reachable by me at the time.

The point here is this, After like 1 month later, i received a phone call from my pastor who called to say thank you to me
and to pray for me. He only spoke words of blessings to me over the phone. Did you know that in that same week, i was making
over 1,000,000 (One Million Naira) daily for all that week. some of this money i earned them while driving in the car. sometimes,
in a 2 minutes phone call and business transactions i have made over 1,000,000 Naira.

My life had grown from one realm to the other. I have over these past years gained lots of international business  presence and have moved
my ebusines in such away, i have literally gotten offices in several countries of the World with companies dully incorporated and paying
taxes in those countries and employing lots of people to work in different countries for me.

That is what the word of God does and what giving can do also.

So, the fact that you dont know Gods word, does not mean you should come here on Nairaland to ridicule men of God.

Somebody here already talked about Bishop David Oyedepo, How could you come to forum and start yarbing your mouth over annointed men of God
and then others amongst you are laughing with him over that. IF you dont believe in giving, then simply dont'. Did you know how Bishop David Oyedepo came
this far ? Do you know how much he gives out to other Pastors around the world. Instead of you guys to sit down and learn from great men of God
you wil come here to yarb your mouth. It is some of you that will still be roaming the STreet in years later still looking for jobs and complaining
that the Country is not doing anything for you guys.

Let this be a warning to you guys and every of Nairalanders who makes jokes and fun of great Men of God. If a pastor is fraudulent, then leave him to God.
Worship your God, study your Bibles, do what God has asked you to do and forget about who is dubious. God will catch up with them someday.

Anyway, i do not attend Bishop David Oyedepo's Church and neither have i ever attended any of his programs. So, i do not speak cos i attend Winners but
iam certainly a Christian and would not have you guys coming here to MESS yourselves up.  Cos its my duty to warn you all. This is 2010. You must 
position yourself for Gods blessings in this year . ITs not the year for everybody to laugh when guys takes up on any pastor any day they like. ITs not funny
and be warned pls.

Take Care all of you

Congratulations on your successful business venture. It seems to me that you see the church as a material investment.
However, from my bible reading days I remember reading the following from the gospel of Matthew -
'Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:23-25

It seems that religion makes people stupid. If not, what makes you think that pastors are beyond criticism. Please, keep your warning for yourself, and if you want to continue being taken for a ride by charlatans and snake oil salesmen, you are welcome. Just do not expect the rest of us to fall for their tricks. No man (not Oyakilome, Adeboye, Ashimolowo, Koleosho and so on) is above criticism. Give them 10% of your income, if you want to. More fool you.

Religion is evil, the cause of most of the hatred in the world.

[quote author=mama-gee link=topic=133599.msg5310763#msg5310763 date=1263428713]Cause God made us black. [/quote]You clearly did not read the question. It says 'how did black people became black?' Not 'do you believe in fairy tales?'

This is my prayer. Lord, please, get rid of the charlatans who go around milking money from the poor and oppressed masses by pretending you exist. Get rid of the parasites who call themselves pastor, elder, imam, GO and so on. Get rid of those who hide their male misogyny and homophobia behind works of fiction like the bible and the koran. Perhaps if you did, Nigerians will learn that a country advances and improves by the industry of its people and not by prayer wishes and requests.

distincty:
the truth of the matter is there is nothing Our Almighty God cannot do, it can happen at least for those that are un believer to believe, it one of the miracle that the Lord did then, so it can happen, the fish will be as big as human sha,

Okay, now answer the question!!!!