₦airaland Forum

babaearly:
leave p.chris out of this for once.so kunle and sirjohn do u guys say Jesus can not heal HIV and faith cant heal too?

There is no use hoping that it may happen, prove that it has happened. Verification is the name of the game. There are a lot of us out there who are unwilling to accept healing on faith. When the limbs of amputees begin to grow back, and mountains fall into the sea, then I will believe. Until then, Chris and his ilk are con men who should really be behind bars for the deception they have wrought on their fellow man.

streetwize:
the fact that u should have asked me, do you think the bible should be interpreted literally or by the message it intends to reveal
What strikes me about atheists is that you forget that the bible is literature and thus has to be interpreted both contextually and relative to the time within which it was set forth.

I wish that you christians would make up your minds about the bible. On another post, I was corrected told that the bible is NOT to be read like a work of literature, but with some sort of understanding of something or the other.
Well, I have, in the past, read the bible with faith, and I have read it like literature. No matter how you read it, it does not make sense.

We should ignore the fool. He is seeking publicity again. Poison indeed.
Did jesus tell him he was going to be a singer (I cringe with embarrassment, I bought the slowpoke's record)? Did jesus tell him he was going to get divorced?
FOOL 

webb jamie:
Ogaga,has Satan whom u believe in ever appeared to you.

@webb jamie
To reverse the question, has jesus ever appeared to you?

@ switosman,

Do you mind telling us what you were cured of. It is not enough to say that you have been healed. We need to know what of and we need proof.

@ toba
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." - Galatians 6:7
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." - Revelations 22:12 

I can not see how these verses deal with issues I raised. The only way you can say these verses abrogate the old testament is by twisting logic.

[quote author=petres_007 link=topic=120059.msg5779738#msg5779738 date=1269712628]I'm sorry to spoil your little party.  .  .   


Its okay.  .  . I know how hard you're trying.  .  . how much you wish he (Christ) didn't exist and that the bible isn't credible  [/quote]Is the bible credible?
Read a book called "Biblical Nonsense: A Review of the Bible for Doubting Christians" by Dr. Jason Long. And then deal with the issues raised therein.

@ letus,

Seeing that you have prayed and fasted over this predicament, hasn't god told you what to do yet? It appears that your prayers are not strong enough. There must be something wrong with your faith if you have not received an answer from god.
On the other hand, it may be that you are just plain s.t.u.p.id. ,if you have to ask god what to do. Can't you make up your own mind.
Seeing, however, that you are seeking help, and I like helping my fellow man, my advise is this, turn the other cheek and stay married to this fine women. When she has 7 or 8 children for this man, maybe you will see the light.

The fools are the ones who cannot see beyond the bible and the koran. Those who doubt scientific evidence that is available for all to see, and those who try to twist their holy books to suit the needs of today.

Kenyan 28:
Jesus is the same yesterday,today & forever, I forgot 2 say I took herbs for 4 months in 2005 & 2006 that boosted my immune & put on a lot of weight.I sm how thot I was healed yet the test was still POSITIVE, If u dont believe in Pr.Chris' miracles just know that in 2010 alone pple frm 90 countries all ova the world av kam 4 the healing skul.Dont u know for all those thousands of pple 2 kam 2 the healing skul is A MIRACLE BY ITSELF?! brethren am typin on fone but wen I get bak 2 Kenya on 13th,al tell u more and more!

Kenyan 28:
Lord have mercy 2 your pple. my test was very very independed,no one told me 2 go 4 my test.NO 1 AT ALL.I didnt do the test at the healing school but in a clinic a VCT centre.the HIV test kits used in Kenya,the same that has 13 times showed 2 lines of HIV POSITIVE showed 1-one line of HIV NEGATIVE, However av neva been on medication rather managed with proper diet and a magnetic AMEGA bracelet with far-infrared on my hand which i bot 4 years.Again i lived in denial & swore neva 2 tek any ARVS coz I knew God wld heal me.My own dad knows my story!I went 2 a dif�rent doctor 2 get my results/medical report written down.Every 1 in Randburg around that clinic knew I was healed coz I CRIED TEARS of joy.for 3 hours I cried tears of joy.The devil LOST the battle when my trip 2 the healing school was succesful.God knows.Glory be 2 GOD for anointing Pr.Chris,am waiting 2 graduate on 11th 2 go bak 2 Kenya.REMEMBER PR.CHRIS HAS NOT TOUCHED ME YET AM HEALED.ITS ABOUT FAITH & APPLYING THE TRUE WORD OF GOD 2 MY BODY.

I laugh in all Kenyan languages.
Not satisfied with pulling his con tricks on Nigerians, I see that "Pastor" Chris has now recruited a Kenyan to convince us of his voodoo miraculous powers to heal the sick.
@ Kenyan 28
If you really were HIV positive, let me assure you that you are still HIV positive. There is no cure yet, and I can assure you that there has been no authenticated case of cure by prayer of any illness. Even people with faith die of illnesses.
Did you have a medical diagnosis? You are obviously a superstitious person if you went around wearing a magnetic bracelet with infra-red (whatever that is) to protect you from HIV.

Maybe he is like the CEO of a multinational company. He lets the minions do all the heavy and dirty work, and pops up from time to time to pick up the accolades for a job well done.

toba:
Why kill something u cant make? This is y i disagree with the Saudis.In my office i have terrible staff,that i sometimes feel that getting rid of them,but when i rem the teachings of christ,i hesitate.
Witches should be allowed to live cus of these 2 quotes of the bible Gal 6vs7 law of sowing&reaping i.e evil for evil,good for good. Rev 22vs12 we shall all be judged by our works i.e evil for evil&vice versa. The same reward applies at our work place.Last yr August(09) i was promoted&this yr Jan(10) a driver was sacked for gross misconduct

A direct order from god should be disregarded because of vague and essentially meaningless statements about "sowing and reaping"
Is this not typical of the pick & mix christianity which is practised all over? You pick the bits you like and try to explain the unpleasant bits away (don't get me wrong, this approach is prevalent in all religions).
When god directed his people to kill witches, stones wives and homosexuals, did he give the power to "make" them. If you allow terrible staff to remain in employment because of the "teachings" of christ, then I am very sorry for your organisation.
Witches (if any such beings exist at all) should not be killed because it is morally wrong to kill, period. Trying to find justification in the bible will not help, there is none there.
As for rewards at work, you got promoted because, no doubt you are a honest, effective and hard-working individual who truly deserves the promotion. Likewise the driver was sacked because he deserved to be sacked. God has nothing to do with it. You would have been promoted whether you were a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or a non-believer, one hopes.

@ jesus
[quote author=jesus. link=topic=423223.msg5826978#msg5826978 date=1270361827]AIRDIG i will never deny Exodus 22.But u must know is this.U mentioned christianity in your post,which only came into being after christ.A fine gentle,easy going&humble man.He laid a precedence for those that would be called with his name christ -ian in mark 12vs30-32.Never abolished old laws,but charged pple to see things the way of love.If any christian is found to behead,h/she does so under hs/hr own will,not sanctioned by christ for christ-ian[/quote]Is the old testament still valid? If yes, why is Exodus 22.18 no longer valid? You are right, Jesus said in Matthew 5.17 -19 that he did not come to change the law.
My question to you is therefore this - Do you believe that witches should be allowed to live? If yes, what is your biblical justification?

@ benodic,

I am interested in knowing how you reconciled the god of the old testament with the loving god. Your post does not deal with this point.

[quote author=jesus. link=topic=423223.msg5825671#msg5825671 date=1270333636]In these modern days how many of such barbaricities have been practised in christendom?[/quote]This is a dishonest attempt to avoid the question.
AIRDIG has asked a legitimate question, answer it or forever be quiet.

[quote author=jesus. link=topic=423223.msg5824645#msg5824645 date=1270321530]Im sure some ignorant muslims will give justification to this.Mohammad did more havoc than this one.Only God knows how many pple were beheaded in over 65 battles that he lf.Including the one in the unholy month of ramadan.[/quote]I am sure that some ignorant christians will see this as justification for their belief that islam is a religion of violence and hatred. Take the log out of your eyes and see the light. Christianity is responsible for many atrocities over its history. That it is now relatively benign now is in spite of the bible not because of it. If they think that god askes them to do so, many christians will kill.
The reality is that religion kills. What about the children who are killed and maimed for being 'witches', in the name of god? What about those christians who kill doctors because they perform abortions in the US? What about Jos -christians killing muslims and vice versa?
Both christianity and islam are violent religions that have been spread by the sword.
There is no need to claim any sort of moral superiority here.

Why all the howls of shock and surprise from christians? Is there not a passage in the bible about not allowing witches to live?
For those christians who have forgotten (or most likely never read it) it is Exodus 22.18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

chinedumo:
I thought u will also mention something like " stoning people to death"
Remember that the christian God has power to reverse and restore to life. just like he did in the case of JOB. He can restore the yrs which the locust caterpillar,  Joel  2:25 when u kill u do not have power to bring to life so u are not the same wit hthe christian God
the examples u have sited above are incomplete and inconclusive . Demonstrate the innocence of the punished
in relation to their punishment. how is their judgment is unjust/undeserving. Remember if u think the bible is a fake these stories ought not bother you cos they neva happen according to your theory esp if u are an evolutionist.
GOD is love I neva said he is hate but that he can be angered.
You can site examples of how u think an All-loving God by your understanding was supposed to act in those circumstances in the same condition of temperature and pressure and time frame
the Christian God demands u to be perfect like your father in heaven is perfect. He cannot ask u to do something he cant do. When u act like him, he describes u as one walking in love cos that is who he is. If there is anything the Christian God required to be done that he himself did not do in the given circumstance plz point it out.

Like I said, twisted logic.
It is always amusing when I hear about the power of the Christian god to bring to restore life. I think that you will find that there is nothing original about that statement. Every one who believes in a god will tell you that their god has the power to restore life.
You bandy the word 'evolutionist' like an insult. I do not think that the bible is a fake (thinking allows for the possibility that it is true). I am saying that the bible is not the inerrant word of god, I am also saying that there is nothing divinely inspired about the bible.
Trying to excuse cruel behaviour on the part of god by explaining that he had to do what he did because of the time and circumstances is, frankly, dishonest. An omnipotent and loving god should judge everyone by the same standards, no matter where they were or when they lived. If a human being acted today in the manner the old testament god acted, we will all be shouting genocide. Why make excuses for him?

@Jagunlabi,

I was responding to rossike's point about Yahweh.

ROSSIKE:
Great stuff from jagunlabi. 

The idea of a ''wrathful'' Creator is truly ludicrous. As is the idea that the Source of Life gets ''jealous'', and has a uniquely ''chosen people'' on earth, on behalf of whom he instigates wars, atrocities, and crimes against humanity, as witnessed by the numerous Israeli atrocities committed against their neighbours in the ''old testament'', and attributed to the ''commandments of the Lord''.

The Israelis may have had a deity - Yahweh - who instigated them to do evil - but he was no God. The very suggestion is ludicrous, and the fact that Africans routinely buy into this claim without question is evidence of our degraded consciousness in the post colonial period.

Forgive me for being s.t.u.p.i.d., but is the God of the old testament different from the god of the new testament? In your attempt to re create god, you find yourself having to twist logic.
Is god love?
Genesis 6 - God drowned all living beings (his creations) save 8 humans and two of each animal.
Genesis 19 - Sodom and Gomorrah - God kills every living being there (innocent or not) Save Lot and his family (Lot's wife he turned into a pillar of salt.
Genesis 7 - God punishes the Egyptians for the sins of one "person".
There are a lot more examples of god not showing the love that he expects humans to show.
Before I get responses about Jesus coming to repeal (or whatever excuses people try to make for god) remember Matthew 5:17-19
" 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

The God of the old testament is the god of the news testament. The quotes attributed to Jesus by the author of Matthew makes it clear that this is the case.
My answer to the question posed is, therefore, yes.

Super T:
-- why did Jesus stop making these appearances? Why isn't Jesus appearing today?


Jesus never stop appearing to people. His you that need to humble yourself and accept Him as your Lord and savior.
His the way to the Father. His is the Lord. If you truly desire His visitation and prayerfully seek Him He can Visit you.
But you need  to clear your unbelief and doubt.
He has visit so many, e.g check Divine Revelation of GODS HOLINESS AND JUDGEMENT BY MICHAEL THOMAS SAMBO.
You may not believe but it true story of Jesus visitation. Get that book and read.

So you want me to accept this proposition based on a book by someone who says it is true. WOW Very good evidence indeed.
It might have been better if you had a personal experience of such a visitation. Actually, the only proof I would accept is that he appears to me.

jeffy1:
Looking at the nation Israel as God's template for all other nations we discover that a prophet and a king co-rule at same time. Anytime the prophet's input is missing or disobeyed, the nation suffers, the king looses example Prophet Samuel and King Saul. The prophet is higher in rank to the king because he enters into the presence of God and tells the king the mind of God. Pastor Tunde Bakare is the prophet to this nation these generations and he must direct this nation according to what God tells him. Remember this same man of great God was used to prophetically birth forth the first black president in America, Obama. Pastor Bakare gave the word from the 90s. Check AIT. Now would he not stand for his own country more so when God told him to do so? Please people let him fulfill his destiny.

Frankly, this is ridiculous. In a country that has as many religions as Nigeria, the last thing you need is a so-called prophet passing down god's commands to the secular rulers of the day. Have we forgotten how "god" told George Bush to invade Iraq? Is this the kind of government we want? Did Bakare say that 2009 a man called Barak Obama would become president of the USA? Of course not. If he is so good, what exactly has he done for Nigeria apart from give vague "prophesies" which do not mean anything.As a citizen, anyone can criticise the government of the day. However, just because he calls himself pastor (or prophet or whatever the flavour of the day is) does not mean that his words bear any more significance than those of any other citizen. The one thing that I am sure of is that god did not tell him anything. If god wants to send a message to anyone, I am sure that he is capable of delivering the message directly to the person concerned. He does not need Tunde Bakare to do that.

nuclearboy:
@MyJoe:

That is why we look at the Bible as a message that comes off the pages and becomes truth, a personal experience, a reality to be found "individually" rather than as a herd. God is mine and I am His, a father to me and that is what concerns me, not whether He is same to others, choosing His Anointed, loving them who follow and trust Him.

The problem with this position is that you no longer have what one might call objective truths, but as many truths as there are people who believe that the bible is the true word of god. Thus, different interpretations of the same body of text. Surely, this individualism is the antithesis of what Christianity is supposed to be about. Either they are objective truths, or there are none.

laposta:
I read a commentary once and that revolutionized my concept of Christainity
when the verse in question was written, homosexuality was gaining grounds among the Israelites and due to jewish culture, men an women were usually dressed in robes. the only difference between men's style of dressing and the women's style was the veil which the women put on. and as a result of that, men wanting to disguise as women put on veils too and this was exactly what the Bible was cautioning with that verse. If one were to apply the same rule to this day living. then we are better going about unclothed. proponents of the non-trouser style for women quote this verse and fail to reckon with the ones that follow subsequently. the one that deals with putting clothes made of two materials, that is absolutely impracticable in this day era where more than one material is used in making fabrics.

How very interesting
If only there was some truth in that commentary. sources,please.
Of course, these commentaries are essentially what contemporary writers make up to explain what seems unexplainable. Deut.22.5 does not say what the "commentator" says. All it says is that "the woman shall not wear what pertaineth unto the man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God." 
Where does it mention homosexuality? Why must there be attempts to explain the mind of god?
Could not the reality be that this was a Jewish cultural practice which the leaders of the day wished to enforce as the word of their deity?
And seeing that we are focusing on women going to hell because they wear trousers, how about verses 14 to 21? I hardly ever hear pastors mention these. How many women have been taken to their fathers' houses and have been stoned to death for not being virgins on their wedding nights? Or have these verses ceased to be of relevance in the christian's life.

OLAADEGBU:
Read the link below to understand my position on Bible translations.  This shows that there are calculated attempts to corrupt the Bible by infilterating the Bible societies, seminaries and theological classes to corrupt the Word of God through the Jesuit Order and to deceive a lot of Christians but God's infallible Word will still stand. Click here http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp

Pick and mix chriatianity. If it does not fit in with your idea of christianity blame satan. God is supposed to be omnipotent. If there were attempts (clearly successful) to corrupt the bible, why blame satan? Surely God is to be blamed for allowing it to happened.
The comic was amusing - short on provable facts, just like the bible itself. My spiderman comics are a better read.

OLAADEGBU:
Modern Science in an Ancient Book
by Henry Morris, Ph.D.

"Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?" (Job 12:9).

The book of Job is one of the oldest books in the world, yet it contains numerous references to natural systems and phenomena, some involving facts of science not discovered by scientists until recent centuries, yet recorded in Job almost 4,000 years ago.

A good example is in 26:7. "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."  While ancient mythologies may imagine the earth to be carried on the shoulders of Atlas or on the back of a giant turtle, Job correctly noted that it is suspended in space.  The force of "gravity" is still not understood, and it is quite reasonable to believe that God Himself holds it in the assigned place in His creation.

There is a reference to the rotation of the earth in 38:14. "It is turned as clay to the seal."  This speaks of the smooth turning of the globe to receive the sun's daily illumination.

"The springs of the sea" are mentioned in 38:16, even though it has only been discovered in recent decades that there are springs of water emerging from certain parts of the deep ocean floor. The fact that mountains have "roots," consisting of rocks of the same nature and density as the mountains themselves, is noted in 28:9.

The infinite extent of the stellar heavens, contradicting the ancient pagan notion of a vaulted sky with stars affixed to a sort of hemispherical dome, is suggested in 22:12. "Is not God in the height of heaven? and behold the height of the stars, how high they are!" (see also Isaiah 55:9, etc.).

There are many other scientific insights in this remarkable book and no scientific errors.  The logical conclusion, as our text says, is that "the hand of the Lord hath wrought this." HMM

Another example of trying to make the facts fit the theory. I cannot see any science here. You need to try harder.

it is always amusing to hear Bakare pontificate on issues. Whilst one has to agree with him that our political elites (word used advisedly) have been responsible for running the country down, he fails to mention the role his profession has played in trying to kick the country into the middle ages. They "see the future", "heal the sick" and make people think that prayers will solve the country's problem.
Surely, it should be a case of taking the log out of his eyes before complaining about the twig in someone else's.

Callfubu:
U find out that the world is getting corrupt by the second, i'm nt claiming to be holy but when a man commits lust of the eyes it is majorly with a womans dressing and these dressings r majorly troussers,mini skirts bum shorts and other skimpy dresses dat girls wear nowadays. If u justify troussers then u hav to justify bum shorts. Its jst lyk justifying a white lie when we all know that all liars have their place in hell, either its white, black, purple or green its all lie. We shld all know that the bible says believers and sinners shld be diff both in manner and in dressing. Wil u see a girl on troussers and regard her as a born again believer? I think we all know the truth, God gave evrybody conscience, i suggest we use it and stop justifying issues. The truth is hard and bitter. It is very very very easy for girls to wear troussers than skirts. If troussers is banned, girls wil lament seriously and they might evn buy it as contraband goods but if skirts are banned especially the decent long ones, its just the vry few believers in the church that wil lament, girls on troussers wont give a poo. THINK ABOUT IT !!!

If a man is unable to control himself in the face of an attractively dressed female, that surely is his problem. Why blame the woman?
What exactly is the sin of lust? A thought crime, maybe. Surely, from your view point, the important thing is not to act on the lustful thoughts. Frankly, all I can see here is the hatred of women.
If a church wants to ban its female members from wearing trousers or short skirts, that the church's problem. No doubt, its members will vote with their feet. But I fear that for the fundamentalists (many of whom have contributed to this post) this will not be enough. They will not be happy until the state bans the wearing of apparel they consider to be indecent.

OLAADEGBU:
He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. -- John 14:21 (The Evidence Bible).

This is the ultimate challenge Jesus gave to every skeptic.  He promised that He and the Father will reveal themselves to all who love and obey Him.

It is useless manifesting to those who already believe. It is those of us who are sceptical who are need of his appearance. So I ask again, when is he going to appear to me?

OLAADEGBU:
Jesus is still appearing to people today.  Check this ex muslim's testimony out and see that the Lord is God.

[flash=500,400]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-8870177642686242029&hl=en&fs=true[/flash]

When is he going to appear to me? I am like Thomas, I will believe it when I see it. If he wants to convince me that he is real, he should appear to me, not some ex muslim.
How can I be expected to accept what someone else claims to have seen as the truth? If I told you that a green eyed Martian appeared to me and no one else, would you accept it? No. why then should I accept what is essentially propaganda from some christian group?

[quote author=Tink_sh link=topic=415993.msg5747991#msg5747991 date=1269326661]It says it in the OLD testament but we are no longer under that covenant since Jesus came we have a new covenant. We are supposed to dress modestly but nothing about pants wearing women go to hell! Soooooo funny!!!!  [/quote]Where in the NT does it say that you are no longer under that covenant? Even Jesus stated that it did not come to refute the law. I like this idea of making things up as we go along to explain the unexplainable.