LagosShia:

If God is "literally" your "father",then who's your mother and who's her husband literally and how many fathers do you have literally? I hope you know what someone with more than one literal father is called.when you say someone is "literally" your father,you're claiming him to be your biological father.I hope you understand the implications of the words you utter.

bukatyne: i do. spiritually, God is literally my Heavenly Father how my biological father is my earthly father. there is d physical and the spiritual.

bukatyne: i do. spiritually, God is literally my Heavenly Father how my biological father is my earthly father. there is d physical and the spiritual.

bukatyne: i do. spiritually, God is literally my Heavenly Father how my biological father is my earthly father. there is d physical and the spiritual.

LagosShia:

I think that contradictory.if God is your "heavenly father" then that is and must be figurative.if your dad,the husband of your mom is accepted by you to be your biological father,then that is literal.you cannot have two fathers literally or else you'd be addressed with the offensive "B" word.so let's mind our utterances and the implications.

RoyPCain: @Op and bukatyne, etc; since we do not know the Mind of God as to why He will choose anyone for a purposely good deed, good purpose which the prophets were, we can think about the pattern of who His choices and observe who finally the another comforter aught to have been; at least who could not be eliminated.

the fact of the matter is that there were prophets before Israel, Jacob the son of Isaact, Jacob the nephew of Isgmael, Jacob the grandson of Abraham, Jacob from the bloodline of the man, Adam, Jacob the father of the children of Isreal.

We also know that there was no time God Himself, as far as we know was a prophet or messenger to any man, individually or as a group.

God is the Commander and He does not need to be the commanded because no one can be the commander of God.

With the above at least we can eliminate any part of God as being the one commanded because another comforter was to be commanded in reality to tell people what what God says and nothing else.

we can safely say therefore, past of the test of knowing who the another comforter is is that whatever comes from his mouth as message from God must be fulfilled on time, not early not later but on time.


All prophets have been people who give good news that comforted the heart of believers and warn the disbelievers whereby they should turn to believers if their heart is affected into guidance whereby they will find comfort.

There is no reason to correct a people who are on correction.
There is no reason to guide a people who are on guidance.
There is no reason to show any new thing if a group can not digest the little they already have.
There is no reason to remind those people who have not forgotten.
There is no reason to teach honoring to those people who are honoring already.

The reason I know Muhammad [sa] is the another comforter were the words of Jesus himself and the failure of that words to be actualized on Pentecost.


The another comforter by nature will bring good news [comfort] to believers on ground if there is any [the like of the disciples [jury is out on this]], the potential believers as well and warn hardened criminals of their ways.

The disciples of Jesus though people of little faith, they were the best in their time. therefore there is no need to add to their burden of faith since they have not forgotten or lost anything or their way and doing anything opposite of what the master left them with.

If the coming of the comforter was to announce bad news, we can understand that it may come right after Jesus left over 2,000 years ago. but since the disciples were still organizing throughout their lives, why would they be led to new things or all things with such a low ability to absorb?


The Good news of comfort must be given to wider audience of potential believers who are not timid in their commitment to guidance. The bad news must be given to pharaohic tyrant like Abu Jahal, Abu Lahab, and the hardened criminal and arrogant madina jewish, arab christian and pagan bosses.


Unless all the christians who propagated christians are collectively the another comforter, if Paul who changed the laws and order that Jesus followed because of the changes, the man who restored the truth about Jesus and other prophets before him, cancelling out Paul's ideology have to another comforter. Good news and bad news can be delayed until you have a larger crowd to hear them.

RoyPCain: @Bukatyne: The "bolded" is the duty of the another comforter. reference the Bible. The duty is similar to what we see in the Quran. we know Jesus mentioned Muhammad [sa] in the Bible because we see him [as] mentioning Muhammad [sa] in the Quran. We know Muhammad [sa] is mentioned in the OT and NT because we see his mentioning as such in the Quran; in essence Quran says OT and NT have trace of Muhammad [sa] even from the amount of what you have of them in the Bible and that Jesus mentioned Muhammad [sa].

Again to have the another comforter arrive at anytime, it has to be the person that at least fulfilled the duties listed from the lips of Jesus on the pages of NT. it will make no sense that somebody or something arrives and you say it is the another comforter, unless the duties prescribed by Jesus are fulfilled.

The "The Prophet" that neither Jesus nor John was is the same entity Jesus named another comforter. Another comforter can not be a ghost unless there is another ghost that is also God, if the first Ghost is God.

bukatyne: i've been goin through some threads now and it seems muslims have this fantasy that Muhammad is the Comforter Jesus Christ promised. I'm surprised they cling to that even when they claim the Bible is corrupted. my question is why do they believe so? i believe this thread ll help them clear all doubts that The Holy Spirit and Mohammed have no relationship/correlation. No bashing, pls let's state our points in a matured way. thanks

suredammy: @Udatso may Allah reward you and all muslims seeking to call to the true religion abundantly. I have noticed that when Christians are presented with valid and incontrovertible evidences during a debate, the tend to run away and abandon the argument, instead of examining the points raised critically perhaps God may guide them. The truth and evidence has been established against unbelievers in the Oneness of God. May Allah guide us all aright.

udatso:
When muslims claim the bible is corrupted yet we quote verses from there..its because if I quote the quran as evidence to you, you wouldn't agree cos you don't believe quran to be the word of God.but if I quote from the bible to you, as a believer you must believe it since its your holy book..so let me give you some points why we believe the comforter the bible is speaking of is prophet muhammad(saw). Though, even though we belive the bible has been altered, there may still be some verses that can be considered as word of God.
Here are the points:
1.John and the Priests
In the Chapter of John, some Jewish
priests quizzed John the Baptist about three people who they were informed about in their scriptures. They asked him:
“Who are you?”
John confessed (he didn’t deny but
confessed), “I’m not the Christ.”
They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?”
John said, “I’m not.”
“Are you THE Prophet?”
John answered, “No.” [John 1:19-21]
So they then asked him, “Why do you
baptize if you aren’t the Christ, nor
Elijah, nor the Prophet?” [John 1:25]
The priests were expecting three people as prophesied by their books, so they asked about Christ, Elijah and ‘the Prophet’. So who is ‘the Prophet’ they are referring to here?
This cannot be a reference to Jesus as he is the Christ. Looking at a copy of the Bible with cross- referencing, we find that the words ‘the
Prophet’ which occur in John 1:25 refer
to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:18 in the Old Testament, which also mentions a forthcoming Prophet.
According to Deuteronomy 18:18 God
speaks to the Prophet Moses and tells him that he will raise up a new Prophet who has certain clearly identifiable characteristics: I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among
their brethren, and will put My words in
His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him.
[Deuteronomy 18:18-19]
In this prophecy God is telling Moses that he will raise a Prophet like him, who will be from ‘among their brethren’. Since these verses
are directed to Moses and the Jewish
People, the ‘brethren’ mentioned here are the brethren of the Jewish people.
Now Abraham, the forefather of the
Jewish nation had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis 21). The children of Isaac are the cousins of the children of the Ishmael. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the children of Ishmael are the Arabs. ‘Brethren’ in the language of the Old Testament can refer to the Jews
themselves (Numbers 32:6), or to the ancestral cousins of the Jews such as the Arabs, Edomites and others (see Deuteronomy 2:4,8 for usage of
the word ‘brethren’).
So the Arabs are considered the brethren of the Jews.
2.Muhammad and Moses
Some people may claim that Jesus is the
new Prophet being referred to in
Deuteronomy18:18. However ‘the Prophet’ mentioned in John 1:25 can’t be Jesus because he is
described as a separate person to ‘the
Christ’. In addition to this, the verse
informs us that the Prophet will have the characteristic of being someone who is ‘like’ Moses. Jesus was very different to Moses, but what about Muhammad (pbuh)?
The table below compares the lives of
the three men (peace be upon them all): Description
Moses
Mohammed
Jesus
Natural Birth
✓
✓
X
Married
✓
✓
X
Children
✓
✓
X
Given Prophethood at the age of 40
✓
✓
X
Forced migration by enemies
✓
✓
X
Initially rejected by his people (Jews or
Arabs), but then accepted
✓
✓
X
Statesman
✓
✓
X
New Legal Laws bought
✓
✓
X
Military Leader
✓
✓
X
United various tribes under one cause
✓
✓
X
Victory over enemies
✓
✓
X
Worshipped as God/Son of God (After
departure)
X
X
✓
Of the Jewish Race
✓
X
✓
Called people to worship God alone
✓
✓
✓
There is no doubt that Moses and
Muhammad (pbuh) are very similar.
Many historians who have studied the lives of Moses and Muhammad (pbuh) have remarked upon the many similarities between them. The late Reverend James L. Dow (1908-1977) who authored the Collins Gem Dictionary of the Bible wrote under the
entry of ‘Moses’: ‘’The only man in history who can be compared even remotely to him is
Mohammed.’’
All of the evidence so far shows
conclusively that Muhammad (pbuh) is the Prophet mentioned in John 1:25.
There are still many people who reject
Muhammad (pbuh) purely because he
was not Jewish (i.e not from the Children of Isaac) But we know that Prophets such as Noah, who are also mentioned in the Bible, weren’t Jewish either.

RoyPCain: @bukytyne; I was editing and unfortunately you had responded;

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world," (1 John 4:1-3). This verse shows that "spirit" is not only the unseen, human 'prophets' too, regardless of being false or true prophet of God. The general body of christianity, all of them say man is a spirit and they are convinced of it. But they always fail to apply this spirit quality to man when it comes to prophets whose spirit lives on forever in spite of physical death.

This therefore explains why The another comforter is predicted to "hear the speech of God" and repeats what he heard as in "speak" to the community of people; believers and non believers alike.

It is obvious that The Tongues of fire, instead of Tongue of fire or a really physical entity that can speak did not speak to the disciples on the occasion of pentecost. Instead, there seemed to have been an inspiration to speak in tongue [what they said no one knows till date] and made them have courage of boldness as if either one of the two is anything Jesus spoke about, unless we are saying Jesus was wrong, which i am sure you are not going to suggest since its your book that we are discussing.


John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever"

At least one will expect the written record [if not records like the many gospels about Jesus but not of Jesus], of what the disciples heard on pentecost, had it been that the holy spirit was the another comforter in a ghostly nature fulfilling what Jesus said must be fulfilled. If the another comforter was not as important as Jesus, the word of Jesus about the another cpmforter must be important enough to warrant the writing down of how he fulfilled because the fulfillment was an headline from the lips of Jesus. headline gets the attention of the audience. you are bound to elaborate on the topic by writing the details of the headline, otherwise the headline is useless. you dont get attention for no reason; you spell out the headline by the body which is the detail.


Although the disciples didnt tell us every details about Jesus, but they believe the another comforter as mentioned by Jesus is important enough and worthy of mentioning, his fulfillment which the christians take as still present with them, though only promised to the disciples should be more worthy or worthy much as it being an headline. If the disciples who were the only one promised did not pen the details, how was it fulfilled and can anyone of later generation say they have it fulfilled in their own live? The deal is in the details and if there is no detail, it is obvious there is no deal. The deal is at least not on the occasion of pentecost.



The prayer of Jesus to the father in John 14'16 should not be wasted just because Jesus may not know the time. I say the prayer was not wasted because God will not make Jesus look like a false spirit if you are to take it literally, the only way to take it because it is explicit in its content. God knows when the time is and when the forever starts about the another comforter. It will be from when the another comforter fulfills his duty; recorded so that later generation after the fulfillment can see, read and learn from it so as to live our lives by it.



John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me". The testimony must affirm that Jesus was the messiah and not an imposter as the jews made him to be, born of virgin and not through illegitimate sexual act as the jews level against his mother, prophet of God to the children of Israel and not a rabbi at best as the jews say finally he is given wisdom and reformation [laws and prophets and returning to it]. An entity that can't talk will not be able to fulfill any part of this. why would it be fulfilled on those who were the receiver from the mouth of Jesus? it sensible that it has to be fulfilled upon the future generation at the time when some of the truth about Jesus has been forgotten and or compromised to mean something different because of corruption has been accepted as the whole truth.



John 14:26 "But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." If an entity can not talk with audible voice no one will be able to write 100% down of what was said from him because nothing was heard even if one is a good lip reader and he is miming it to you. The duty of another comforter right here will be lost on speechless entity unless he writes it down himself. we dont have any record of anything written down by the listeners or the speechless another comforter of pentecost who was to speak and fulfill the above duty, instead of a hearing and speaking [messenger] were it to have been fulfilled on the day of pentecost.




John 16:7-14 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you."

Sinful things are not only known in the heart, but written down as in rule book. Deeds of righteousness eg [prayers and acceptable process and time and place] are also written down, even though it is natural for human being to incline to worship. The correct worship should be as commanded and it should not be made up. In short, looking at the above, it is impossible foe speechless being to fulfill it and not definitely not in an afternoon or an event or a day. To fulfill it requires a generation, a long time in the live of man if a mere getting to Canaan took 40 years from across the red sea and if 3 years of constant teach of Jesus mount to 'little faith', the big task of the another comforter is definitely not on pentecost. It will be a longer time and a slow process for the heart of believers to take it all in and process it and adjust to it. 23 years is more like it instead of an event which is part of a day, even if the another comforter was far superior than Jesus.





Muhammad in the Gospel of John - Answering Christianity
www.answering-christianity.com/prediction.htm‎

Back to Muhammad peace be upon him in the Bible.

bukatyne:

Sorry, I did not come back to reply

Christianity teaches man is a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body

A man's spirit does not live forever. Once a man dies, his spirit goes back to God and his soul is judged while his body decays.

One characteristics of the Comforter/Holt Spirit was that He will live in us. Does Mohammed live in you?

The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. Does/ Can Mohammed bear witness with your spirit? Can a body bear witness with a spirit?

maclatunji:

Your posts tend to be naively cute. Oh really? Please tell us what was dwelling in the people that lived before Jesus (AS) was born? Evil spirit?

bukatyne:

Sorry, I did not come back to reply

Christianity teaches man is a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body

A man's spirit does not live forever. Once a man dies, his spirit goes back to God and his soul is judged while his body decays.

One characteristics of the Comforter/Holt Spirit was that He will live in us. Does Mohammed live in you?

The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. Does/ Can Mohammed bear witness with your spirit? Can a body bear witness with a spirit?

bukatyne:

The bolded is NOT necessary.

We have been communicating without insults.

The first line of my post below answers your question

maclatunji:

Sorry, I don't mean to cause offence with you but I really think your posts tend to be naive and cute at the same time. That is not an insult and no. You did not answer the question.

Sorry, I did not come back to reply

Christianity teaches man is a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body

A man's spirit does not live forever. Once a man dies, his spirit goes back to God and his soul is judged while his body decays.

One characteristics of the Comforter/Holt Spirit was that He will live in us. Does Mohammed live in you?

The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. Does/ Can Mohammed bear witness with your spirit? Can a body bear witness with a spirit?

RoyPCain: @bukatyne;

if man is visible, is he really spirit or he has been mislabeled or misclassified to be spirit, similar to the earth is flat? you can say for sure the body of man that needs nutrients, etc is not part of man that you see, but arguing that the spirit you dont see is the man. how is body housing two invisible things, soul and spirit or is it just one with two names depending on your vista? there is no way that physical body that the bible deems unimportant will carry 2 major invisible; spirit and soul. you did not say where the soul comes from, though i think christians and many think spirit is not only from God, but part of God. nothing in man is part of God, but all of man like in all other creation are from God.

you are arguing that spirit that man is dies, but it is the soul that gets the reward of what body and spirit did. if soul is punished, it borders on injustice and if rewarded, it borders on undue benefit. in either case when soul is punished the responsible duo gats off scot-free. when soul in rewarded, the duo responded are deprived. either way, it is not a good thing for a party. you may need t know that Jesus did not promise you or any group outside the disciples any holy spirit, since you really want to be technical. so your saying the holy spirit lives in you as a christian is a farce. there is no way it will happen. the additional reason is that no christian today does not fall into mistakes. so how is the holy spirit living in you and you are mistake riddled? only your holy spirit is always going away when you are falling into mistakes and comes back after and one should ask, what good is allowing you the pitfalls when that will make you short of the glory?

has the holy spirit ever bore witness in you that your father is God and not the nigerian man married to momma and you forced him to pay school fees, since you are saying he is not your dad? [this is the light moment of my day].