No sir. The Bible promises Christians a comforter (having revealed the kind of times Christians will face), you guys say it's Prophet Muhammad. I am now asking if the Koran says so (so as to reduce lengthy verbose debates). Your answer? I should come with a "counter argument".

Many here have already shown how prophet Muhammad could not have been the comforter. What says the Koran? I am asking you.

So, the gospel is not the property of Christians. Is it your (muslims) property? Also, is the Koran the sole property of Muslims? If the gospel is not the property of Christians how on earth did christians CORRUPT it? The real owners should have the uncorrupted copy. Are they Muslims?

tiarabubu: Why all the Bible verses from you on this matter. Why no try to show Mohammed as the comforter USING Koranic verses?

If Christians were to look out for the comforter and Mohammed is the comforter, the Koran should have told us.

Oya LagosShia, sweetnecta and ore mi Maclatunji show us using the Koran that Mohammed was the comforter Christians are to look out for and we will have a basis to talk. If there is none, please hold your peace. chikenan!

Holy Quran 61:7
"And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad ("the praiseworthy";compare with the greek word used for "comforter" in the book of John)." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."

tiarabubu: No sir. The Bible promises Christians a comforter (having revealed the kind of times Christians will face), you guys say it's Prophet Muhammad. I am now asking if the Koran says so (so as to reduce lengthy verbose debates). Your answer? I should come with a "counter argument".

Many here have already shown how prophet Muhammad could not have been the comforter. What says the Koran? I am asking you.

So, the gospel is not the property of Christians. Is it your (muslims) property? Also, is the Koran the sole property of Muslims? If the gospel is not the property of Christians how on earth did christians CORRUPT it? The real owners should have the uncorrupted copy. Are they Muslims?

Point to one place in the Bible where Jesus called his followers Christians if you want to claim ownership of his Gospel.

Note again: The Gospel is not the Bible.

I know what your argument will be in spite of LagosShia's quotation of the Quranic verse.

LagosShia:

Holy Quran 61:7
"And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad ("the praiseworthy";compare with the greek word used for "comforter" in the book of John)." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."

Even if Jesus ever said those words, how does "Ahmed" compare with comforter (in characteristic and description)?


John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.



Alas, you are trying too hard.

maclatunji:

Point to one place in the Bible where Jesus called his followers Christians if you want to claim ownership of his Gospel.

LOL! point to a historical document that shows that the words "Muslim" or "Islam" existed BEFORE Prophet Muhammed coined them in 650 AD.

Christ admonishes us to be like him - Christ-like hence Christian meaning "follower of Christ.": John 15, Mat 11:28, 1 John 2:6, Matthew 5:48


However, I asked you questions. Answer them, then we can start from there:

So, the gospel is not the property of Christians. Is it your (muslims) property? Also, is the Koran the sole property of Muslims? If the gospel is not the property of Christians how on earth did christians CORRUPT it? The real owners should have the uncorrupted copy. Are they Muslims?

Note again: The Gospel is not the Bible.

OK.... I hear. What is it then?

I know what your argument will be in spite of LagosShia's quotation of the Quranic verse.

Care to share?

tiarabubu:

LOL! point to a historical document that shows that the words "Muslim" or "Islam" existed BEFORE Prophet Muhammed coined them in 650 AD.

@bolded, ignorance of the highest order. Not worth my time in responding.

tiarabubu: Christ admonishes us to be like him - Christ-like hence Christian meaning "follower of Christ.": John 15, Mat 11:28, 1 John 2:6, Matthew 5:48

To be Christ like is to submit to the will and laws of God- in other words be a Muslim (See the Quranic chapter LagosShia quoted]

tiarabubu:
However, I asked you questions. Answer them, then we can start from there:

So, the gospel is not the property of Christians. Is it your (muslims) property? Also, is the Koran the sole property of Muslims? If the gospel is not the property of Christians how on earth did christians CORRUPT it? The real owners should have the uncorrupted copy. Are they Muslims?

The sincere ones were Muslims, the hypocrites corrupted the holy books after thy knew the truth therein. Create another thread to debate that if you want.

tiarabubu:

OK.... I hear. What is it then?



Care to share?

You either state your case or have no case, I am not your advocate.

SO FAR
Question was posted

CHRISTIAN LOGICAL ARGUMENT
1. Dead man can not be the comforter as the bible said he will abide with us forever
2. was your Muhammed (SAW)a spirit
3. do we serve the same God?
4. that muslims should support their claims with quranic quotations

QUOTATIOS
no quotation from relevant books on this topic

MUSLIM LOGICAL ARGUMENT
1. Mrriage: prophet Muhammed married and encorage that to boost humanity and it proplem
2. Holy spirit has been here even befor jesus, so comforter can not be him
3. Dead Man: Adam,Abraham,Nohh,Solomon, jesus etc also were all dead so what point
4. Resurection: Elijah , Enoch were all rasing to heaven
5. Followership: imitation and building worshiping house never by any comforter but only Prophet Muhammed did that
6. What are the new solution this Holy ghost have for our problems as Jesus said
7. jesus said their are comforters before, now and one to come, then holy spirit alwas ever with us as said in the bibble
8. What is christian defination of God
9. are will still waiting for comforter?

QUATATIONS
I john 16; 12-15
1 john 4: 1 and 3
Jojn 14:16
Mathw 21:11
john 16:7
Quran 61:7

CONCLUTION
My friends in Christianity now we need to read our book again with open mind and bring out who is really this comforter but if you can not here is a quotation from QURAN 2:24 BUT IF YOU DO NOT AND YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO THEN FEAR THE FIRE, WHOSE FUEL IS MAN AND STONE, PREPARED FOR THE DISBELIEVERS.

maclatunji:
@bolded, ignorance of the highest order. Not worth my time in responding.



To be Christ like is to submit to the will and laws of God- in other words be a Muslim (See the Quranic chapter LagosShia quoted]



The sincere ones were Muslims, the hypocrites corrupted the holy books after thy knew the truth therein. Create another thread to debate that if you want.




You either state your case or have no case, I am not your advocate.

Buahahahaha!

It's not ignorance oh. It's common sense. There was NOTHING like "islam" or " Muslim " before 650AD. In fact it was terms like "hanif" were used to describe monotheistic persons. The term " Muslim " was coined and prophets, personalities (like Adam, kings Solomon and David) and even Christ were appropriated as muslims. I am challenging you to show me that the term existed before 650AD.

If I were to coin a term for people that postrate to pray - Mahi, for example, would I be right to say all muslims are Mahis? If I am wrong then Christ was no muslim. If I am right then the term Muslim is a generic name coined. It means little but to the person(s) who coined it.

If the gospel was corrupted then it behoves the person saying so TO PROVE IT, best by showing the original. Since the matter is the eternity of people's lives it makes it more pertinent for Muslims to avail us this uncorrupted copy. Abi na only una wan go paradise?

So sir, the comforter's description was clearly revealed by Jesus and Prophet Muhammad doesn't fit the description.

Hmm i thought the bible is corrupt

Now it contains prophecies of Muhammad

Could it be the word of God?

Ok mo is not the comforter here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/muhammad_in_bible.htm

And here:

http://answering-islam.org/Silas/comforter.htm

tiarabubu:

Buahahahaha!

It's not ignorance oh. It's common sense. There was NOTHING like "islam" or " Muslim " before 650AD. In fact it was terms like "hanif" were used to describe monotheistic persons. The term " Muslim " was coined and prophets, personalities (like Adam, kings Solomon and David) and even Christ were appropriated as muslims. I am challenging you to show me that the term existed before 650AD.

If I were to coin a term for people that postrate to pray - Mahi, for example, would I be right to say all muslims are Mahis? If I am wrong then Christ was no muslim. If I am right then the term Muslim is a generic name coined. It means little but to the person(s) who coined it.

If the gospel was corrupted then it behoves the person saying so TO PROVE IT, best by showing the original. Since the matter is the eternity of people's lives it makes it more pertinent for Muslims to avail us this uncorrupted copy. Abi na only una wan go paradise?

So sir, the comforter's description was clearly revealed by Jesus and Prophet Muhammad doesn't fit the description.

All of this still proves ignorance. Your case on this point is like one of the 6 blind men and the elephant. I cannot begin to school you at the moment.

tiarabubu:

Even if Jesus ever said those words, how does "Ahmed" compare with comforter (in characteristic and description)?


John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.



Alas, you are trying too hard.

that (you highlighted in John 14:16) is figurative language.first it is reported that "another comforter" would be given.the other one is Jesus (as) himself.if it is the "holy spirit" as christians believe then that cannot be "another" if it is already with them,they "know him" and it "dwell in them".that is why i say it is figurative language Jesus (as) is using by also making reference to himself.as a Muslim,Muhammad (sa) lives on.in every Muslim home you will find a Quran,the living miracle of Muhammad (sa).

also,don't forget that Jesus (as) said in the same book of John,in chapter 16,that it is "expedient" that he goes away.for if he does not go away the "comforter" will not come.now how can you believe that Jesus (as) was refering to the "holy spirit" when he was saying that "they know him" and "he lives with them",when the condition is for Jesus (as) to go before the "comforter" can come?

if it is with them,and truly the "holy spirit" of God was manifested before Jesus,and during his time on earth,then why would Jesus (as) have to promise them that "another comforter" to come,and also say that if he does not go away,the "comforter" will not come?

in 1 John 2:1 Jesus (as) himself is refered to as "an advocate",the word which is also used to refer to the "paraclete" Jesus (as) promised will come after he is gone.

now compare the below two passages,and reason it out by yourself:

John 16:7
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter[b] will not come [/b]unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".


John 14:16-20
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you".

if Jesus (as) was making reference to the so called "holy spirit" christians believe in and interprete as being referred to,then he simply should console the disciples that even though he is going,he is leaving them in the care of the "holy spirit" that was already "dwelling" with them;not telling them that they will not remain orphans because there is "another comforter" that will come to them.therefore your highlighted is figurative language whereby Jesus (as) was using his-self being among the disciples and their knowledge and acceptance of him while the world denies him to indicate or refer to the one coming who is like Jesus (as) is also a "comforter"/"advocate".you should be convinced that Jesus (as) is speaking in figurative terms when you end up reading verse 20 :

"At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you".

let us examine more verses from the bible about this expected "comforter".how will Jesus (as) be in them and they in him and he would be glorified through the coming of "another comforter":

John 16:13-16
"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will[b] not speak on his own[/b]; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will[b] bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known [/b]to you.All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit of Truth will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

Paxchal: Hmm i thought the bible is corrupt

Now it contains prophecies of Muhammad

Could it be the word of God?

the bible as a whole is indeed corrupt and has being tampered with.therefore it is not the "infallible word of God" as the Quran is.that can be seen through internal evidence from the bible itself and from external evidence in terms of manuscripts and science.

your question is why do muslims still bring out verses from it and present it to convince the christians since the bible is corrupt?

firstly when the muslim presents those verses,he does so not to convince fellow muslims that islam is the truth.the muslim uses the bible to present islam as a kind gesture to our christian brothers.christians see the bible as the "word of God" and they believe in the bible.so it would be unreasonable for muslims to use the Quran to convince christians on particular issues.christians believe in the bible,so for them it is authoritative.

this is even more the case,because we muslims also believe in Jesus (as) and other biblical prophets (as).therefore using the bible to bring out verses that support islam and where those previous prophets (as) proved that they were muslims is important to demonstrate our conncetion and truthfulness and also to convince christians that those prophets and men of God in the bible were like us muslims and not like you christians,who in all your 1001 sects and denomination are polytheists and idolators.

you may still ask us,how do we accuse the bible on the one hand of being corrupt and on the other hand use it to support islam? are we not contradicting ourselves?

the answer definitely is a big NO!

then how so?

we are not contradicting ourselves.our stance on the bible itself is the following:

we believe that the bible contains at least up to 4 types of verses.

the first type are verses that are truly the word of God and they are consistent with Quranic teachings.example:

Isaiah 43:10
“You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me  and understand that I am he.Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

the second type of verses found in the bible are those attributed to prophets based on what God taught them.example:

Mark 9:23
"'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes."

the third type of verses found in the bible are the words of fallible men who are the scribes or historians.examples:

Mathew 9:9
"As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him".
(note that we are supposed to believe that the writer of the "book of Mathew" is Mathew himself according to christians,even thought we do know that the author is anonymous).


Deuteronomy 34:7
"Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone".
(note that we are meant to believe that it was Moses himself who authored Deuteronomy.one wonders how Moses could have written that he was 120 years old when he died after he had died!)


the fourth type of verses are verses that were tailored by the church either through adding or editing.when you compare the bible version of one church to the version of another church,you will clearly see that something is wrong as the passages of the same verse are either not consistent or are totally absent in the other's.those verses are tailored to fit church teachings and doctrines. two examples:

the catholic church and the doctrine of the trinity in the catholic version of the bible-(see below in quote)

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost

Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost," represents a rare biblical reference to the Holy Trinity. However, the trinity did not become church doctrine until the third century, and even fourth century citations of this verse by Eusebius of Caesarea mention only baptizing in the name of Jesus, as do similar biblical passages (e.g. Acts 19:5).

1 John 5:7-8
The only other apparent scriptural Trinitarian reference is in 1 John 5:7-8, which reads, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the [u]Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the [/u]Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." The NIV omits the underlined portion, indicating in a footnote that it is "not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century."

to read more on interpolations in the bible and more examples,read here:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bible_interpolation#The_Father.2C_the_Son.2C_and_the_Holy_Ghost

the Jehovah's wtinesses and their belief in "Binity" in the 'New World Translation' version of the bible the witnesses use
they do not believe in trinity but they however believe Jesus is divine.they also play with words to establish their doctrine in the bible.

John 1:1
"In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god".

John 1:18
"No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him".

the highlighted words (in the above two verses) are not found in other versions.they are interpolations added by them to establish Jesus' divinity since they deny the trinity and believe trinity is unbiblical.

furthermore,the tetragrammaton from which the word "Jehovah" is derived (a word nonexistent before the 16th century),does not appear once in the greek manuscripts of the new testament.they have replaced anywhere the words "lord" and "god" are found with "Jehovah" on the supposition that the word could have being lost from hebrew or aramaic during translation and writing into greek.all this is to establish their belief in what they believe to be the only "unique name of God".if Jesus did not utter the word they believe the name of God is,then alot can be said.and if the most basic knowledge which is the name of God is supposedly lost in the new testament as they try to explain why it is absent,then how many more complex things,narrations and words could also have gone missing?

i will conclude by quoting the bible as evidence against itself:

Jeremiah 8:8
“How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie".

@Tiarabubu:

by tiarabubu: 2:18pm

LagosShia:

Holy Quran 61:7
"And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad ("the praiseworthy";compare with the greek word used for "comforter" in the book of John)." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."


Even if Jesus ever said those words, how does "Ahmed" compare with comforter (in characteristic and description)?


John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.



Alas, you are trying too hard.

the things we must all agree in; the comforter will come after Jesus told his disciples about him and definitely after Jesus must have gone. if you call the comforter counselor and spirit, it simply meant he was not seen physically at the time he was being announced to be coming in the future and he will counsel people. there was at least a previous counselor before the another counselor, comforter who is also a spirit of truth, since the previous comforter must be a spirit of truth, too. The world will have a great disagreement with him first before any acceptance by some, since there is no prophet who did not have some segment of people rejecting him.

we see that holy spirit in the bible was already known, even as it has dwell with many and came on a woman and help and supported her son, Jesus. we therefore must think that the yet unknown by the world another comforter though only known by the words of Jesus to his disciples cannot be the holy spirit. His living in you as spoken by Jesus must be by description, only.

Now "Ahmad" [sa] one of the names of Muhammad [sa] means counselor, comforter.

The Bible outlined who the comforter, the counselor, the spirit of truth as a prophet of God description and his duties:

Below are the New Testament texts concerning the Comforter.



JOHN 14:15-17: "If you love me you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you."

JOHN 14:25, 26: "All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

JOHN 15:26: "When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me."

JOHN 16:7,8: "But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment...."

JOHN 16:13-15: "But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you."

below is what the Quran says about Muhammad [sa]:

His concern about people: believers in particular

Quran Chapter 9 Verse 128; Surely, there has come to you a Messenger from amongst you, hard on whom is your suffering, for the good of you he craves and for believers he is kind, merciful. [128]

His position as the last messenger being already told to the prophets before him

(And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets, saying: "Take whatever I gave you from the Book and Hikmah, and afterwards there will come to you a Messenger confirming what is with you; you must, then, believe in him and help him.'' Allah said: "Do you agree, and will you take up My covenant'' They said: "We agree.'' He said: "Then bear witness; and I am with you among the witnesses.'') (3:81)

Islam being the religion of all prophets before Muhammad [sa], including Jesus son of Mary [as]

(He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion which He ordained for Nuh, and that which We have revealed to you, and that which We ordained for Ibrahim, Musa and `Isa saying you should establish religion and make no divisions in it.) (42:13)

(Indeed, the Messengers of our Lord did come with the truth.) (7:43)

With the above, it is no wonder that Jesus said in the Quran as Lagosshia rightly quoted,

Holy Quran 61:7
"And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad ("the praiseworthy";compare with the greek word used for "comforter" in the book of John)." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."

and when you look at what he is to do in the Biblical verses already posted above, the comforter must have a voice, how else can anyone hear him correct mistakes on the ground, teach, remind of what is the truth, leading, etc?

You now need to keep your bubu still, discard the tiara and put on a kimar and take shahadah and enter Islam.

maclatunji:

All of this still proves ignorance. Your case on this point is like one of the 6 blind men and the elephant. I cannot begin to school you at the moment.

What an escapist statement. You are more than that.

Well, I guess you have nothing to say. It's understandable.

LagosShia:

that (you highlighted in John 14:16) is figurative language.first it is reported that "another comforter" would be given.the other one is Jesus (as) himself.if it is the "holy spirit" as christians believe then that cannot be "another" if it is already with them,they "know him" and it "dwell in them".that is why i say it is figurative language Jesus (as) is using by also making reference to himself.as a Muslim,Muhammad (sa) lives on.in every Muslim home you will find a Quran,the living miracle of Muhammad (sa).

also,don't forget that Jesus (as) said in the same book of John,in chapter 16,that it is "expedient" that he goes away.for if he does not go away the "comforter" will not come.now how can you believe that Jesus (as) was refering to the "holy spirit" when he was saying that "they know him" and "he lives with them",when the condition is for Jesus (as) to go before the "comforter" can come?

if it is with them,and truly the "holy spirit" of God was manifested before Jesus,and during his time on earth,then why would Jesus (as) have to promise them that "another comforter" to come,and also say that if he does not go away,the "comforter" will not come?

in 1 John 2:1 Jesus (as) himself is refered to as "an advocate",the word which is also used to refer to the "paraclete" Jesus (as) promised will come after he is gone.

now compare the below two passages,and reason it out by yourself:

John 16:7
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter[b] will not come [/b]unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".


John 14:16-20
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you".

if Jesus (as) was making reference to the so called "holy spirit" christians believe in and interprete as being referred to,then he simply should console the disciples that even though he is going,he is leaving them in the care of the "holy spirit" that was already "dwelling" with them;not telling them that they will not remain orphans because there is "another comforter" that will come to them.therefore your highlighted is figurative language whereby Jesus (as) was using his-self being among the disciples and their knowledge and acceptance of him while the world denies him to indicate or refer to the one coming who is like Jesus (as) is also a "comforter"/"advocate".you should be convinced that Jesus (as) is speaking in figurative terms when you end up reading verse 20 :

"At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you".

let us examine more verses from the bible about this expected "comforter".how will Jesus (as) be in them and they in him and he would be glorified through the coming of "another comforter":

John 16:13-16
"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will[b] not speak on his own[/b]; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will[b] bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known [/b]to you.All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit of Truth will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

Let me quote this passage that breaks this down to a basic level;


First, let the New Testament texts speak for themselves. They clearly state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. There is no ambiguity about this. Consequently Muhammad is not the Comforter based upon what the Bible explicitly states.



Second let us take the context of the texts into account. If you are going to understand any passage of Scripture you must understand its context. When Jesus spoke these words in John it was His last ministerial time with His disciples prior to His death, crucifixion, and resurrection. Jesus is being very intimate with them. Understand then, when he speaks to them He is including them – these very disciples, specifically. These are the men He knew best and loved; they were His friends. These were His final words to them, and He wanted them to know what was in store.



Therefore, knowing that these passages of John are being spoken intimately between Jesus and His disciples there are several key points we can discover concerning the Comforter and His relationship with Jesus’ disciples.





John 14:16 — And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth.

The Comforter will be with these disciples forever. Jesus promised the Comforter would be with these disciples forever. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later - following the deaths of these disciples. He was born around 570 and died around 632 AD.



John 14:17 — But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you.

The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because first he wasn't around at the time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples nor second could he ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. Jesus is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples.



John 14:26 — The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is not a man. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he was never the Holy Spirit.



John 14:26 — The Comforter will be sent in Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth. No Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent by God in Jesus name. Muhammad did not come in Jesus' name, as the apostle of Jesus, rather he came in his own name with his own questionable “revelations”.



John 14:26 — But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.



John 15:26 — When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples.



John 16:13 — But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.

The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth. These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit. Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth.



John 16:13 — He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

The Comforter will speak to these disciples. These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice. Muhammad never spoke to these disciples.



John 16:14 — He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew Jesus and never took from Jesus and made it known to anyone.





The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter. Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date. Jesus’ precious final words to His disciples were meant for them. Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His the disciples with Him there His final commands, love, and encouragement.

Www.answering-islam.org/Silas/comforter.htm

@tiarabubu

I think you can do more than using copy/paste words from a bigot in a known website to reply my post.I went to the simpliest and most direct level to reason with you.but it seems I'm wasting my time.you went to copy and repeat what you've previously said and was refuted.

The first point in the copy/paste article you posted is built on dishonesty of interpretation and adding into the text.what you find in the bibles in english telling you the 'comforter which is the holy ghost/spirit' is not found in the greek manuscripts.the phrase 'which is the holy ghost/spirit' is an addition/interpolation based on christian interpretation.so why try to use an already known and rejected christian (mis)interpretation smuggled into your bibles to tell us 'the bible says'?no,its not the bible that says that but you christians.this is another example of how the bible is tailored to teach what christians believe instead of christians believing what the bible says.its a shame.

And for a million time let me repeat:the 'holy spirit' cannot be the 'expected to come' comforter because the 'holy spirit' was already 'present' before Jesus (as),during his stay and after him.therefore this 'comforter' who will not come until Jesus (as) is gone,as it is 'expedient' Jesus (as) leave,must be someone not already there.reason please!

^Awwwwwwww, tiarabubu, is the best you can come-up with?

If you leave your stubborn sticking with all you've been taught all your life, you will accept that we're right.

If the Holy Spirit was meant to live in the disciples and they're now dead, how would you benefit from that to earn salvation since you're telling us that the message of Jesus is not complete without the holy spirit living in you?

Going by your logic, all of those who lived and died before Jesus cannot earn salvation since they weren't "Christlike" and obviously didn't have the. holy spirit in them.

Please give us a definition of God and the holy spirit so that we can understand what you mean when you speak of them.

I am disappointed that you're actually referencing answeringislam.com as proof of your correctness.

And by the way, don't I have a life outside Nairaland that I must address every ignorant post you make?

LagosShia: @tiarabubu

I think you can do more than using copy/paste words from a bigot in a known website to reply my post.I went to the simpliest and most direct level to reason with you.but it seems I'm wasting my time.you went to copy and repeat what you've previously said and was refuted.

The first point in the copy/paste article you posted is built on dishonesty of interpretation and adding into the text.what you find in the bibles in english telling you the 'comforter which is the holy ghost/spirit' is not found in the greek manuscripts.the phrase 'which is the holy ghost/spirit' is an addition/interpolation based on christian interpretation.so why try to use an already known and rejected christian (mis)interpretation smuggled into your bibles to tell us 'the bible says'?no,its not the bible that says that but you christians.this is another example of how the bible is tailored to teach what christians believe instead of christians believing what the bible says.its a shame.

Sir, the question is: Are the points raised therein not genuine? Address the content if you will, please. All this conjectures you are making wouldnt cut it. If the Bible is tailored/contains smuggled items etc why are you splitting hairs over Muhammed being in there? Isn't it simply unreliable?

And for a million time let me repeat:the 'holy spirit' cannot be the 'expected to come' comforter because the 'holy spirit' was already 'present' before Jesus (as),during his stay and after him.therefore this 'comforter' who will not come until Jesus (as) is gone,as it is 'expedient' Jesus (as) leave,must be someone not already there.reason please!

John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


Prophet Muhammedd is not the comforter cos (i) he is NOT a spirit, (ii) He is not unseen (iii) He didin't live with the disciples and (iv) He doesn't live IN people.

Its very basic English, really.

maclatunji: ^Awwwwwwww, tiarabubu, is the best you can come-up with?

If you leave your stubborn sticking with all you've been taught all your life, you will accept that we're right.

If the Holy Spirit was meant to live in the disciples and they're now dead, how would you benefit from that to earn salvation since you're telling us that the message of Jesus is not complete without the holy spirit living in you?

Going by your logic, all of those who lived and died before Jesus cannot earn salvation since they weren't "Christlike" and obviously didn't have the. holy spirit in them.

Please give us a definition of God and the holy spirit so that we can understand what you mean when you speak of them.

I am disappointed that you're actually referencing answeringislam.com as proof of your correctness.

And by the way, don't I have a life outside Nairaland that I must address every ignorant post you make?

Tell me you guys dont quote islamic apologetic websites! Address the substance of the matter, abeg!. If you have a life outside nairaland, then don't join in the discussion. Do you think i address every ignorant post YOU make? I just laugh about them
If you have nothing to say, just watch.

Did mohammed come in the name of Jesus? - NO

Who were the first recipients of the counselor/comforter - The disciples of Jesus Christ

Did mohammed abide with any of the disciples at any time? - NO

Supporting Scriptures of the fact that mohammed is NOT the comforter Jesus spoke of;

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

what did Jesus say about himself: matthew 12:30 He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters abroad.

matthew 17:22 The son of man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men and they will kill him and on the third day he will be raised up

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world

Mark 16:15-18 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


From the aforequoted did mohammed testify that Jesus was killed and rose on the third day? Did he believe in the name of Jesus.Did he baptize in the name of the father,son,and the holy ghost. Jesus categorically said the comforter shall testify of him. Mohammed did no such thing.


Another supporting scripture to show that mohammed is NOT the comforter Jesus promised his followers;

John 14:16-18 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Mohammed abideth with no one forever. The world cannot see the comforter because he is a spirit mohammed was seen,heard,left behind wives and kids. The comforter "dwelleth with you and in you". Is mohammed dwelling in anyone? NO he is dead.

Jesus promised not to leave us comfortless which is why his believers have his spirit in dwelling in them naturally this talk is food for the spirit man which is why those who worship God must do so in spirit and in truth.

Again Mohammed is not the comforter Jesus promised his believers.The comforter is not for everyone but for those who believe this testimony of Jesus- mark 3:16-1916 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

@Tiarabubu

by tiarabubu: 6:11am

Let me quote this passage that breaks this down to a basic level;


First, let the New Testament texts speak for themselves. They clearly state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. There is no ambiguity about this. Consequently Muhammad is not the Comforter based upon what the Bible explicitly states.

the verses stated that the another comforter to mean there was a comforter or comforters before him is spirit of truth, then Holy spirit, then spirit of truth and spirit from God. This means 3 times; 1st, 3rd and 4th statements is spirit of truth and only 2nd statement is Holy spirit which is 75% spirit of trut and 25% holy spirit. Do the math and see if holy spirit made the grade or is it spirit of truth that did.

What is spirit of truth except the one who speaks the truth regardless of the bitterness; in correcting, teaching, etc?

Second let us take the context of the texts into account. If you are going to understand any passage of Scripture you must understand its context. When Jesus spoke these words in John it was His last ministerial time with His disciples prior to His death, crucifixion, and resurrection. Jesus is being very intimate with them. Understand then, when he speaks to them He is including them – these very disciples, specifically. These are the men He knew best and loved; they were His friends. These were His final words to them, and He wanted them to know what was in store.

you must then know that there is no way you or I should accept anyone in the generation of the disciples to have any opinion except the another comforter. so where do you place saint paul in this case if he is not the another comforter, a comforter who must have audible voice based on the description of his duty?

Therefore, knowing that these passages of John are being spoken intimately between Jesus and His disciples there are several key points we can discover concerning the Comforter and His relationship with Jesus’ disciples.

if it is true, disciples only not anyone or generation after the 12 disciples. ironically, there were 11 left and all of them are now dead and Jesus has not returned as promised in their lifetime.

John 14:16 — And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth.

not the holy spirit.

The Comforter will be with these disciples forever.

are the disciples for ever? at best the another comforter ended with the 12. are you ready to accept this? Where is the correction information from the another comforter if he corrected anything?

Jesus promised the Comforter would be with these disciples forever.

Forever as in end of time or the end of their time?

Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later - following the deaths of these disciples. He was born around 570 and died around 632 AD.

you will have to accept that the another comforter was a thing of the future when spoken by Jesus. Jesus said he will come in the lifetime of the disciples. But he never came because you are still expecting him. I am expecting him, but hopefully not in my lifetime. Its been 2000 years at least you have been expecting him. so 570 years after his death is within the ball pack of fulfilled prophesy if Jesus was not wrong in that verse about the talking another comforter.

What is amazing is that we believe that a Day in the Sight of God is 50,000 years or more or less of our human day. so how much is 570 years in relation to 50,00 years as a day? less than one hour.

John 14:17 — But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you

these 2 bold oppose each other. The first is already active while the later is something will just occur in the future.

The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them.

Does this make logical sense? You live in your house now. But will later begin to live in your house?

The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them.

if this was true, i wonder how one of them was called satan by Jesus? and they were of little faith even then? how was the holy spirit indwelt "them" that they now need correction, because they must have made mistake?

Muhammad could not be the Comforter because first he wasn't around at the time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples nor second could he ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. Jesus is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples.

You couldnt use syriac or aramaic word; I know. But "right inside" of the disciples will mean Paul was a liar and you are not better of claiming that holy spirit dwell in you or even following Paul. You will know that there is no Gospel of Jesus, only Gospel of others about Jesus, hence watering down the truth from Jesus one of the reasons for a correcting Another comforter.

John 14:26 — The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit.

Te spirit of truth 3 times while holy spirit just 1 time.

The Comforter is not a man.

Man usually speaks in audible voice. Invisible spirit doe not. not usually. The another comforter was to speak what he hears. It means he must hear first before he speaks. This will tell me that he is not a God. whereas you will argue that Holy Spirit is God and God can not hear from God before God speaks to man.

Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he was never the Holy Spirit.

Muhammad [sa] like Jesus [as] was human with audible voice. Holy spirit does not have a voice. The another comforter is supposed to speak in audible voice. The Holy Spirit which is part of the Gods in Trinity can not be the another comforter.

John 14:26 — The Comforter will be sent in Jesus' name.

Thats what you said Jesus said, while Jesus came in the Name of God, like all previous prophets [as]. Unless the another comforter is less than previous prophets who were send in the Name of God, there is no way the another Comforter to correct once and for all, finally, will be sent in any name less than in The Name of God.

The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth.

Why would it be sent in a lesser name than in The Name of God?

No Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent by God in Jesus name.

No one is ever sent by any other name than The Name of God and still be a Messenger or Prophet of God. Jesus was also sent in The name of God and he was not the last that will be sent. Why would this last be sent in the name of lesser entity than The Name of God?

Muhammad did not come in Jesus' name, as the apostle of Jesus, rather he came in his own name with his own questionable “revelations”.

Muhammad [sa] came in the Name of God. Read the Quran. The apostles of Jesus were 12; from them the denying Peter the satan dwelling, the betrayal Iscariot, all of the 12 are of little faith, non to count upon in tie of need. Why should Muhammad [sa] come from this stock? Questionable revelation in regard or compared to what and which revelation? Te Quran is in authentic Arabiya. Every muslim agrees to it.

John 14:26 — But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

this is the only place the another comforter is called holy spirit. But what did the another comforter teach and remind the disciples? Name one. Just one and point us to the statement in any book about the another comforter by the disciples.

The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.

read the first part preceding the bold. then read the bold. Unless the people in the bold are the disciple, your effort to include them in the activity of the another comforter is foiled, if the Bible verses recorded Jesus accurately. I have addressed the issue of Muhammad [sa], earlier.

John 15:26 — When the Comforter comes, whom I will send

initially, it is Gd that will send the another comforter. Now it is Jesus who will send him. You see double talk as in subtle change in word and name and process that feeble will just swallow the lies?

to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

He is called spirit of truth, the 2nd time, testifying. You testify by physical action or audible voice.

The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples.

what did the holy spirit teach them, correct them on, etc on the day of pentecost? You must give example, otherwise people will think you are playing trick on us all. and we aint buying. If nothing, then Jesus is either wrong or all of christianity is wrong or both.

John 16:13 — But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.

he is referred again as spirit of truth the 3rd time and he is now guiding to all truth that Jesus did not guide to. Tell me now which truth is in the all truth that the holy spirit guided the disciples to?

The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth.

One truth please show us. That should be easy from "all truth".

These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit.

It is promised to the disciples, alone and the other is your own trick. sow us how te disciple grew in the knowledge of God after Jesus left and new spirit came to them?

Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth.

Read your above where you added 'others'. and here you remove the "other", on the same subject matter, thinking we will not discover your dishonesty. We read and we pay attention. Muhammad[sa] has the Quran. What is the book of correction from the Holy Spirit?

John 16:13 — He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Speaking, hearing, telling of things yet to come are descriptions and functions of the another comforter. Muhammad [sa] heard and then spoke of what he heard by the Quran. He spoke about things yet to come by it, the sunnah and hadith. Tell us anything from the Holy spirit that is comparable to what I have said about Muhammad [sa], here.

The Comforter will speak to these disciples.

Quote a single statement from the Holy Spirit. That will be enough and I will stop hounding you. I know you cant.

These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice.

If I were not a gentleman, I would say you are lying. You know thats not true, tiarabubu.

Muhammad never spoke to these disciples.

Neither did the voiceless Holy Spirit. Then Jesus was wrong, if this is the case, or it was the Bible writers who lied.

John 16:14 — He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

what belongs to Jesus is not clear here because satan told him he has been given everything, using that as the carrot to ask Jesus to worship him. I say this verse or part of it talking about Jesus owning anything is a lie; the same Jesus who is powerless and knows not the time of the hour, like every creation.

The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew Jesus and never took from Jesus and made it known to anyone.

Take what from Jesus? Tell us one thing that the disciples didnt know from Jesus and the Holy Spirit took from Jesus and showed it to the disciples. One ting.

The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter.

Neither could the Holy Spirit. And definitely after the 12, no christians could have benefited from the Another Comforter.

Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date. Jesus’ precious final words to His disciples were meant for them.

so how do you claim more people than the 12?

Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His the disciples with Him there His final commands, love, and encouragement.

Jesus failed if this verses were penned accurately because the Holy Spirit does not have any audible voice. There is no record of anything he said anew about anything or anyone. Since Jesus has not returned and the disciples are all dead, we see clearly that Jesus was completely wrong unless the Bible writers misrepresented him. We have to then look at what is plausible. You will find the truth staring you down in the Quran.

Www.answering-islam.org/Silas/comforter.htm

Tiara, you can do better. Abeg.

Tiara, you know we are right. Admit it and stop going around in circles, it does not paint you in very good light at all.

maclatunji: Tiara, you know we are right. Admit it and stop going around in circles, it does not paint you in very good light at all.

Lol! How immodest. State your facts and I will state mine. Stop cocky self serving statements.

The Bible is clear. Muhammad is NOT the comforter based on the very words of Jesus. It's so clear. How you guys try to twist Muhammad into the "corrupted" bible is laughable. Christians don't seek validation from the Koran.

Better look for validation for your religion and Prophet elsewhere. Try the Hindus

^^^^^^^^^^^^ The jews use the same gimmick against the Christians.

^^^
Face the issues at hand. This is not about the Jews. It's about your claims

tiarabubu: ^^^
Face the issues at hand. This is not about the Jews. It's about your claims

Our claims are easy to understand and accept. It is you that have refused to abandon the incoherent teachings of Christianity on the subject matter.

Imagine, you ascribe divinity to Jesus (AS) and the holy spirit, yet between them 12 disciples did not master all you claim to be the essence of Christianity. According to your Bible, one had to leave for the other to replace him to teach 12 people? Think about it, you guys are really messing-up the concept of divinity.

Don't just repeat extant lines tiara, think for yourself, think!

tiarabubu:

Sir, the question is: Are the points raised therein not genuine? Address the content if you will, please. All this conjectures you are making wouldnt cut it. If the Bible is tailored/contains smuggled items etc why are you splitting hairs over Muhammed being in there? Isn't it simply unreliable?

Madam,please stop going in circles.it portrays you as silly and portrays me for wasting my time with you as foolish.

I addressed your article.the first point in it is built on dishonesty.the phrase 'which is the holy ghost/spirit' is an interpolation.it is that simple.

You're again making the desperate claim to uphold the bible as a whole to be true.I gave a long reply citing examples earlier as to why Muslims refer to the bible even with the fact that it isn't 100% reliable.I do not see reason for you to repeat the same claim other than desperation or may be frustration.

John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


Prophet Muhammedd is not the comforter cos (i) he is NOT a spirit, (ii) He is not unseen (iii) He didin't live with the disciples and (iv) He doesn't live IN people.

Its very basic English, really.

It is very easy to make figurative language literal and then claim it is simple english.I wonder what you've made of Jesus (as) and his mode of speaking in parables.

'Spirit of truth' as earlier explained based on the bible means a true prophet.

'Unseen' means so many things including 'not yet born'.

Jesus (as),the 'other comforter/advocate' lived among the disciples.so the speech being used is again clear for people of insight and understanding.

As for 'living in people',this can mean so many things including to have truth reside in your heart.it doesn't only mean the false claim christians make 'speaking in tongue' which is more or less adults displaying the child in them!

Indeed it is very easy to understand simple english including when being literally silly is also expressed in english.

maclatunji:

Our claims are easy to understand and accept. It is you that have refused to abandon the incoherent teachings of Christianity on the subject matter.

Imagine, you ascribe divinity to Jesus (AS) and the holy spirit, yet between them 12 disciples did not master all you claim to be the essence of Christianity. According to your Bible, one had to leave for the other to replace him to teach 12 people? Think about it, you guys are really messing-up the concept of divinity.

Don't just repeat extant lines tiara, think for yourself, think!

I will not digress from the issue at hand. A time shall come to discuss the concept of divinity. For now it's about Muhammed and your embarrassing claims to his being the comforter, which he is clearly not.

Unless you have new information to shed more light on the issue, hold your peace.

LagosShia:

Madam,please stop going in circles.it portrays you as silly and portrays me for wasting my time with you as foolish.

I addressed your article.the first point in it is built on dishonesty.the phrase 'which is the holy ghost/spirit' is an interpolation.it is that simple.

You're again making the desperate claim to uphold the bible as a whole to be true.I gave a long reply citing examples earlier as to why Muslims refer to the bible even with the fact that it isn't 100% reliable.I do not see reason for you to repeat the same claim other than desperation or may be frustration.



It is very easy to make figurative language literal and then claim it is simple english.I wonder what you've made of Jesus (as) and his mode of speaking in parables.

'Spirit of truth' as earlier explained based on the bible means a true prophet.

'Unseen' means so many things including 'not yet born'.

Jesus (as),the 'other comforter/advocate' lived among the disciples.so the speech being used is again clear for people of insight and understanding.

As for 'living in people', this can mean so many things including to have truth reside in your heart. it doesn't only mean the false claim christians make 'speaking in tongue' which is more or less adults displaying the child in them!

Indeed it is very easy to understand simple english including when being literally silly is also expressed in english.

Oga the Bible is not the Koran where passages can have several meanings- where phrases depends on tafsirs or the understanding of the mullahs. The Bible is clear on what the comforter is.

It reminds me of debates in this forum where u guys would say of Koranic passages - "its possible to interpret it this way" or "it could possibly mean" or " its likely to mean" or "the true meaning is locked in classical Arabic" (tbaba's favorite) Come on!

It's this kind of twisting meanings to words that makes you guys attempt to force Prophet Muhammad into the Bible. Ore, it wouldn't work. The passages are clear.

Learn from Christians who leave your Koran to you and wouldn't validate history, God, Prophets or even Jesus through your holy books.

Follow what your book says Qur 109.6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. (or do you want me to interpret? )

the bible called the Holy spirit the SEAL of our Salvation eph. 4:30
the bible spoke about the gift of the Spirit
the Fruit of the Spirit
the Bible said the spirit will take that which is of Jesus and show it to us.
in Romans it said as many as are lead by the spirit they are the sons of God.
the words says the spirit is a quickner. he quikens our mortal bodies.
the list is endless
this does not in any way relate to one mohammed has you have vainly protrayed

he did not even refer to himself as that spirit. stop trying to make him who is not

tiarabubu:

Oga the Bible is not the Koran where passages can have several meanings- where phrases depends on tafsirs or the understanding of the mullahs. The Bible is clear on what the comforter is.

It reminds me of debates in this forum where u guys would say of Koranic passages - "its possible to interpret it this way" or "it could possibly mean" or " its likely to mean" or "the true meaning is locked in classical Arabic" (tbaba's favorite) Come on!

It's this kind of twisting meanings to words that makes you guys attempt to force Prophet Muhammad into the Bible. Ore, it wouldn't work. The passages are clear.

Learn from Christians who leave your Koran to you and wouldn't validate history, God, Prophets or even Jesus through your holy books.

Follow what your book says Qur 109.6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. (or do you want me to interpret? )

^And you fail to grasp that Jesus and his gospel are a part of our religion. We can dissect the Bible and pick any truths we want from it. It is purely for debating with the likes of you. As for our daily lives and relationship with God, the Qur'an and teachings of the Prophet (SAW) are more than enough.

See tiara claiming the Bible like it is her personal inheritance.