Sagamite:

What a stewpid statement.

Show me one approach to human interaction that gives 100% benefits 100% of the time.

So if one finds a case where it does not work, that means it is inappropriate?

I wait.

Go and watch TV programmes about their wayward kids and then come and tell me how many families have that in Africa.

I wait.

hmm .. . . so what you are saying is that even with spanking, we cannot measure % of success on a case by case basis . . . kind of like with OTHER approaches to raising kids?? So, to consider the success of spanking, we need to consider a good sample of the Nigerian society then where the level of moral decadence remains pretty high?? OMGOsh!!

Kobojunkie:

hmm .. . . so what you are saying is that even with spanking, we cannot measure % of success on a case by case basis . . . kind of like with OTHER approaches to raising kids?? So, to consider the success of spanking, we need to consider a good sample of the Nigerian society then where the level of moral decadence remains pretty high?? OMGOsh!!

Show me where I said that.

Maybe this will turn into a lecture on comprehension.

Show me.

I wait.

Kobojunkie:
um . . . sorry you were trying to make it about married and with kids. How then does that apply to everyone?
Again, kids will always be kids, and it is given that they will misbehave, no matter how many looks you give them, and no matter how many times you spank them. They are humans and hence prone to tantrums, mistakes, you name the lot. There is no definite art when it comes to child raising and there is no guarantee that children raised one way are better than those raised another way. What is that parents should do their best in ensuring the kids are provided with all the skills necessary to help them grow into responsible adults.

So it is "skills" that train up children....a parent is leaving his/her responsibilty to 'skills' to train up their children...little wonder we have half-baked adults walking around with low self-esteem...

I did not make this about married women or mothers alone, i asked you if you have kids?, i want to know how you correct your children....the kids do not just grow up into an adult overnight, where you can sit and have a decent discourse with them. Tell me the various methods you use to train up kids from birth till 18 years of age?

Sagamite:

Show me where I said that.

Maybe this will turn into a lecture on comprehension.

Show me.

I wait.

um . . . .

Sagamite:

What a stewpid statement.

Show me one approach to human interaction that gives 100% benefits 100% of the time.

[size=13pt]So if one finds a case where it does not work, that means it is inappropriate[/size]?

I wait.

Go and watch TV programmes about their wayward kids and then come and tell me how many families have that in Africa.

I wait.

Kobojunkie:

hmm .. . . so what you are saying is that even with spanking, we cannot measure % of success on a case by case basis . . . kind of like with OTHER approaches to raising kids?? So, to consider the success of spanking, we need to consider a good sample of the Nigerian society then where the level of moral decadence remains pretty high[b]??[/b] OMGOsh!!

Sagamite:
.

Maybe this will turn into a lecture on comprehension.

I agree that is needed here.

ronkebp:

So it is "skills" that train up children....a parent is leaving his/her responsibilty to 'skills' to train up their children...little wonder we have half-baked adults walking around with low self-esteem...

Stop playing daft . . . what do you think you train your skills for?

ronkebp:
I did not make this about married women or mothers alone, i asked you if you have kids?, i want to know how you correct your children....the kids do not just grow up into an adult overnight, where you can sit and have a decent discourse with them. Tell me the various methods you use to train up kids from birth till 18 years of age?

How I correct my kids is not in question here. For all you know, I probably don't . .. that is not for you to worry your head about given you have not yet shown the way you declare to be the right way .. . you still lack evidence of.

Kobojunkie:

um . . . .



I agree that is needed here.

Um kini?

Answer my question.

You think you can talk like an ediot when you talk to Saga?

Sagamite:

Um kini?

Answer my question.

You think you can talk like an ediot when you talk to Saga?

you sure I am the eejit in this case?

Kobojunkie:

um . . . .



I agree that is needed here.

So where you studied (e bi to ti kawe), when you want to compare two systems/cultures they taught your daft arse to pick singular cases for comparison or to compare aggregates?

If you want to compare the standard of living of US and Nigeria, you will say I know someone that makes $30K in New York but Dangote makes $100m per year in Nigeria so US can not be superior? Or you will look at it holistically?

It is Saga you are debating like a mugu with?

Sagamite:

So where you studied (e bi to ti kawe), when you want to compare two systems/cultures they taught your daft arse to pick case for comparison or to compare aggregates?

If you want to the standard of living of US and Nigeria, you will say I Know someone that makes $30K in New York but Dangote makes $100m per year so Us can not be superior? Or you will look at it holistically?

It is Saga you are debating like a mugu with?

Again, are you sure you are not the mugu here, especially with the utterly stu_pid example for an analogy you have up there?? Cause it sort of mirrors what you have been trying to argue all this while.

Kobojunkie:

Again, are you sure you are not the mugu here, especially with the utterly stu_pid example for an analogy you have up there??

You are a mugu!

How did your neighbour's case become representative of whether African style of discipline is better?

You are not smart enough to understand analogies.

Foool!

Kobojunkie:
Stop playing daft . . . what do you think you train your skills for?

How I correct my kids is not in question here. For all you know, I probably don't . .. that is not for you to worry your head about given you have not yet shown the way you declare to be the right way .. . you still lack evidence of.

And i should provide evidences to you, because...? Babe, go and relax. i do not know the evidences you are looking for....if your parents spanked you when you were younger and you turned out to be 90% good, what other evidences are you looking for? or are you saying their methods was not good enough. You want to misbehave and receive a lollypop and a part in the back because you feel it is the best way to train up a child....hmmm!!! that child will be receiving the lolly-pop with a good slap.

See my dear...whether you like it or not, take it or leave it, believe it or not, stamp it or not, accept it or not..."spanking the kids to an extent is and will always be a good measure and part of the measures to train-up a child that will turn out to be something Great in the future" EOD.

Sagamite:

You are a mugu!

How did your neighbour's case become representative of whether African style of discipline is better?

You are not smart enough to understand analogies.

Foool!

oh boy!!! The last thing I want to have to deal with on a good vanderful morning such as this is an 'adult' throwing tantrums because his 'reasoning' has been challenged.

Abeg go bother someone else with your logic, if we can call it that at all. . . i get better things to spend my time on.

NEXT!!!

Kobojunkie:

oh boy!!! The last thing I want to have to deal with on a good vanderful morning such as this is an 'adult' throwing tantrums because his 'reasoning' has been challenged.

Abeg go bother someone else with your logic, if we can call it that at all. . . i get better things to spend my time on.

NEXT!!!

Shut the fck up!

Next time think before you talk!

ronkebp:

And i should provide evidences to you, because...? Babe, go and relax. i do not know the evidences you are looking for....if your parents spanked you when you were younger and you turned out to be 90% good, what other evidences are you looking for? or are you saying their methods was not good enough. You want to misbehave and receive a lollypop and a part in the back because you feel it is the best way to train up a child....hmmm!!! that child will be receiving the lolly-pop with a good slap.

See my dear...whether you like it or not, take it or leave it, believe it or not, stamp it or not, accept it or not..."spanking the kids to an extent is and will always be a good measure and part of the measures to train-up a child that will turn out to be something Great in the future" EOD.

Here is the thing, you have been making some pretty ABSOLUTE-ISH statements for a couple of pages now. You have made some claims about Nigerian way being better than Western way yet when it comes to backing your claims, all you do THEN is make suggestions on how it can be better but you provide nothing in the way of solid backing for claims made.

And then I, and millions sit back trying to reconcile what you say with reality of life in the same Nigeria. There seems huge disconnection between what you say and what we know to be the moral reality of life in Nigeria.
I mean how can kids in a society, who were properly trained, end up with a vast portion of them irresponsible adults? Something is wrong, don't you think?

Kobojunkie:

Here is the thing, you have been making some pretty ABSOLUTE-ISH statements for a couple of pages now. You have made some claims about Nigerian way being better than Western way yet when it comes to backing your claims, all you do THEN is make suggestions on how it can be better but you provide nothing in the way of solid backing for claims made.

And then I, and millions sit back trying to reconcile what you say with reality of life in the same Nigeria. There seems huge disconnection between what you say and what we know to be the moral reality of life in Nigeria.
I mean how can kids in a society, who were properly trained, end up with a vast portion of them irresponsible adults? Something is wrong, don't you think?

You are a foool for thinking only parental upbringing is the factor that influences morality.

Cultural, social and economic factors also play a big part.

Start understanding complex issues!

The goal of smacking kids in Africa is to mainly have respectful kids, studious kids and moral kids.

Other factors will impact these.

Be it peer pressure and western TV programmes for respect.

Demotivating teachers and school facilities for studiousness.

Economic hardship for morality.

But by and large, do the African disciplinary way achieve these (especially respect) better than Western way? Hell YEAH!

Guys there is no need to get personal about this issue naa

Children were spanked in Nigeria, some turned our right and some didn't.

Children were not spanked in the UK and the US, some turned our right and some didn't

So really we can't say one works over the other because both produced the same results (good children and bad children)

In my opinion, finding a balance between two extremes i.e the spanking to a pulp and the no spanking at all in addition to other disciplinary methods might be the way to go.

Besides, every child is different. . .one person's two year old is not going to act exactly like another person's own, even when the parents are siblings, brought up in the same home sef. So knowing your child and what he is capable of should also be considered here.

Honestly, when it comes to child rearing. . .one size does not fit all.

On a funny note,
Anyone else suffered the "You should know better" discipline? Boy that was the bane of my life growing up, had this cousin who was like a year older than me but since everyone knew she was kinda on the more genteel side (you know the ones who are quite, only talk when spoken to and even then sef you have to lean closer to hear her voice). . .I suffered for majority of the shenanigans we got into all because my grandma felt I "Should know better". . .sometimes, she (my cousin) would be the one to initiate it oh and since I can never say no to a good rabble rousing. . .I will follow join and before you can say "wait, it wasn't my idea and besides, isn't she older than me?" I am the one facing the wall with one leg up.

Twasn't fair!!

Sagamite: The goal of smacking kids in Africa is to mainly have respectful kids, studious kids and moral kids.

By "respectful", you mean "submissive" and "intimidated" children? The average Nigerian doesn't see anything wrong in giving bribe and you think that's a moral victory? Spare me the rhetoric your parents gave you. . . I heard it from my parents too, along with the one that says women should keep quiet when men speak.
There are better ways to raise kids, smacking has failed, and even if the leniency seen in the Western culture isn't working, we should be looking for ways to improve instead of putting all the frustration of your daily life on your child.

Why now . . . I want to spend another day being told that the "Nigerian way is better than the Western Way" even as we have no evidence to show for these claims after after more than 5 pages.

I amazes me that even after all the education many Nigerians claim, many are still under the old way of thinking that it is OK to continue doing things the old way(even when there is evidence that it may not be working at all) and that it will all automagically work out

Oh I forgot to add. . .we both turned out right. . . at least I hope it is safe to say I did, I don't wanna blow my own horn or anything but I think I turned out right. . .I mean I am not standing on the street corner somewhere flagging. . .well, sometimes I do stand on the street corner but only because I need to take a cab, so you know it's not like I am. . . .erhmm. . . errr. . .what was I saying again?

Sisi_Kill: Guys there is no need to get personal about this issue naa

Children were spanked in Nigeria, some turned our right and some didn't.

Children were not spanked in the UK and the US, some turned our right and some didn't

So really we can't say one works over the other because both produced the same results (good children and bad children)

In my opinion, finding a balance between two extremes i.e the spanking to a pulp and the no spanking at all in addition to other disciplinary methods might be the way to go.

Besides, every child is different. . .one person's two year old is not going to act exactly like another person's own, even when the parents are siblings, brought up in the same home sef. So knowing your child and what he is capable of should also be considered here.

Honestly, when it comes to child rearing. . .one size does not fit all.

Great!!!!! love this....
True, not fair to try to say one nation is better than the other, since they both produce the same result. and it is better to balance things, too much of everything is kukuma bad.

But any child ( not a 2 year old ooo) [ NO ONE DARE TOUCH MY "SOLDIER"]now if that soldier now thinks he has come of age now and can say "dad what the hell are you on about? or shut-up dad" he will not like the "samba" he will be receiving at the back of his head unknown to him.....clearly out of the blues....tawaiii!!! will be sound. ....

i trust my mum, that mouth would have shifted to the side before i even think of completing that sentence....

ronkebp:

Great!!!!! love this....
True, not fair to try to say one nation is better than the other, since they both produce the same result. and it is better to balance things, too much of everything is kukuma bad.
.

Oh now they produce the same results??

eldee:
By "respectful", you mean "submissive" and "intimidated" children? The average Nigerian doesn't see anything wrong in giving bribe and you think that's a moral victory? Spare me the rhetoric your parents gave you. . . I heard it from my parents too, along with the one that says women should keep quiet when men speak.
There are better ways to raise kids, smacking has failed, and even if the leniency seen in the Western culture isn't working, we should be looking for ways to improve instead of putting all the frustration of your daily life on your child.

As I said social and economic factors have an influence.

If you are travelling to Japan from Nigeria to close a deal of some innovative new products that the suppliers want to give you SOLE licence to sell in Nigeria. You have already put a large chunk of your life savings to chase this contract and it has come to fruitition. On your way you found out due to incompetent local officials and the information they provided, immigration/customs are going to make you miss your flight for not having a certain form except you pay a bribe. Will you or will you not cough up the bribe?

I would rather have submissive and intimidated kids than kids that have no problem telling me to "fck off" or slap me. Which one will you prefer?

Yes, we should be lookng for ways to improve but definitely not ways to imitate what the West have.

Sisi_Kill:
In my opinion, finding a balance between two extremes i.e the spanking to a pulp and the no spanking at all in addition to other disciplinary methods might be the way to go.

Besides, every child is different. . .one person's two year old is not going to act exactly like another person's own, even when the parents are siblings, brought up in the same home sef. So knowing your child and what he is capable of should also be considered here.

Honestly, when it comes to child rearing. . .one size does not fit all.

Thank you!

Only a foool would say never smack a child.

It is as dumb as saying you will only use a screwdriver to fix your car. Sometimes you might need a spanner too.

Oh by the way, I want to know how to smack my kids into being studious. Is it by knocking their heads for direct access??

Is it self applicable? Can I smack myself into being studious too? Is this the secret behind the excellent scores amongst Nigerian SSCE candidates?

ronkebp:
True, not fair to try to say one nation is better than the other, since they both produce the same result.

They don't produce the same results.

Lets not patronise anybody.

When I see kids of family and friends raised in Nigeria (not the funky ones) and I see kids in the UK, the difference is 7Up!

Kobojunkie:

Oh now they produce the same results??

hun

the essence of arguing back and forth sometimes is to learn and not to always prove that my points are better than yours, especially when moderators and panel of judges are not involved, if what SISI-Kill just said, Was what you were trying to say all along, you should have said it, instead of dwelling on the way i stare at my son, or the right hand that was used to wash the buttocks and looking for unnecessary evidence....

eldee: Oh by the way, I want to know how to smack my kids into being studious. Is it by knocking their heads for direct access??

Is it self applicable? Can I smack myself into being studious too? Is this the secret behind the excellent scores amongst Nigerian SSCE candidates?

When you grow up in my house, you will know that you will have solved 50 additional mathematics questions before you even think of Nintendo.

ronkebp:

hun

the essence of arguing back and forth sometimes is to learn and not to always prove that my points are better than yours, especially when moderators and panel of judges are not involved, if what SISI-Kill just said, Was what you were trying to say all along, you should have said it, instead of dwelling on the way i stare at my son, or the right hand that was used to wash the buttocks and looking for unnecessary evidence....

You are patronising, she was wrong!

ronkebp:

hun

the essence of arguing back and forth sometimes is to learn[b] and not to always prove that my points are better than yours, especially when moderators and panel of judges are not involved,[/b] if what SISI-Kill just said, Was what you were trying to say all along, you should have said it, instead of dwelling on the way i stare at my son, or the right hand that was used to wash the buttocks and looking for unnecessary evidence....

May I suggest you think of the part in bold before you come in, again, making ABSOLUT-ish statements on what you are not even clear on. I mean we have been telling you the very same that @Sisi-kill just came in with for how many pages now, but instead you continued with this "Nigerian way is better" argument.

I stare down kids, and I am not against with sensible spanking but I am not into making absolut-ish statements when it comes to raising of kids or suggesting that my way is better than the western way without submitting evidence for this.

Sagamite:

They don't produce the same results.

Lets not patronise anybody.

When I see kids of family and friends raised in Nigeria (not the funky ones) and I see kids in the UK, the difference is 7Up!

Not in that sense, looking at it from Sisi-kills' point of view..."whether you spank in one country and do not spank your kids in another country, there will still be bad and good children in both countries".

Sagamite:

As I said social and economic factors have an influence.

If you are travelling to Japan from Nigeria to close a deal of some innovative new products that the suppliers want to give you SOLE licence to sell in Nigeria. You have already put a large chunk of your life savings to chase this contract and it has come to fruitation. On your way you found out due to incompetent local officials and the information they provided, immigration/customs are going to make you miss your flight for not having a certain form except you pay a bribe. Will you or will you not cough up the bribe?

Chicken and egg story. Which came first? The act of beating your kids to pulp or the corruption in the mindset of the average Nigerian?

Sagamite:
I would rather have submissive and intimidated kids than kids that have no problem telling me to "fck off" or slap me. Which one will you prefer?

This question is irrelevant. It's not what about what I would prefer, it's about what is better for the child in the long run.
But as I said, we should be looking for ways to improve the situation and not reducing the level of violence we use against kids while at it.