ronkebp:

Not in that sense, looking at it from Sisi-kills' point of view..."whether you spank in one country and do not spank your kids in another country, there will still be bad and good children in both countries".

eldee:

Chicken and egg story. Which came first? The act of beating your kids to pulp or the corruption in the mindset of the average Nigerian?

This question is irrelevant. It's not what about what I would prefer, it's about what is better for the child in the long run.
But as I said, we should be looking for ways to improve the situation and not reducing the level of violence we use against kids while at it.

Sagamite:

You are patronising, she was wrong!

Kobojunkie:

May I suggest you think of the part in bold before you come in, again, making ABSOLUT-ish statements on what you are not even clear on. I mean we have been telling you the very same that @Sisi-kill just came in with for how many pages now, but instead you continued with this "Nigerian way is better" argument.

Sagamite:

And my point is, the odds are there will be more proportion of bad kids in one.

No systems gives you 100% benefits 100% of the time but one gives better odds despite inferior resources.

Sisi_Kill: Guys. . .can I ask a question?

Shouldn't it about teaching our kids how to find a balance i.e knowing when to study and knowing when to put the games away?

I don't want to quote cliches oh but the old sayings all work and no play and all play and no work. . .has some truth to it.

I think it would be unfair on a child to bring him up completely disconnected from the real world around him and this is the sense I get when I see the NO PHONE, NO INTERNET, NO GAMES, NO THIS and NO THAT rules. If we teach them right, we won't have to worry about these things controlling them because they will know how to control them. We can't always be there to watch them 24/7, so the least we can do get them ready for when mom or dad won't have their eyes on you. . .you don't want them going gaga and overdoing it at the first smell of "freedom".

Just my opinion oh!!

ronkebp:

Nope, that is the way you see it. Ssi-Kill made a valid point and it drove some points home {and that is for me personally).

Kobojunkie...accept the fact that you have absolutely said nothing in all the pages, apart from trying to also prove that "Nigeria has no Value and the method of training their kids, is primitive".

If what she said was what you were trying to say...why didn't you say it all along

Hold your b/o/obs high in the sky and admit that you do not know it all. No one does

Sisi_Kill: Guys. . .can I ask a question?

[size=13pt]Shouldn't it about teaching our kids how to find a balance [/size]i.e knowing when to study and knowing when to whip out the games?

I don't want to quote cliches oh but the old sayings all work and no play and all play and no work. . .has some truth to it.

I think it would be unfair on a child to bring him up completely disconnected from the real world around him and this is the sense I get when I see the NO PHONE, NO INTERNET, NO GAMES, NO THIS and NO THAT rules. If we teach them right, we won't have to worry about these things controlling them because they will be in control.

We can't always be there to watch them 24/7, so the least we can do get them ready for when mom or dad won't have their eyes on you. . .you don't want them going gaga and overdoing it at the first smell of "freedom".

Just my opinion oh!!

Sagamite:

Answer my question my friend!

What do you mean the question is irrelevant?

If you are critiquing. or rather ridiculing, only ONE thing out of two options on the table, you don't know you have to justify the alternative?

Kobojunkie:

Again, @Sisi_kill said NOTHINg different from what many have been trying to get you to see, including my person, for more than 6 pages now.

um . . . I think you should be telling yourself all you pretend to be telling me here.

Sisi_Kill: Guess no one is ready to party yet.

*Takes party hat off and go sits in a corner with a good book*

eldee:

Lool . . . oh, I thought the reply was self-evident?
Let me give you in clear terms. The society in that admittedly corrupt system is a product of the flawed socialization mechanism in the family unit.
In more basic terms, if your beating kids system didn't Bleep up in the first place, I won't have to pay bribe for my Japanese products.

eldee:
And you asked, which would I prefer, I'll repeat myself. . . "It's not what about what I would prefer, it's about what is better for the child in the long run.", making the question irrelevant to this discussion.

There are more than two ways to kill a cat brother. If I say one of the two options stated on this very expansive thread is less attractive, I don't have to sing praises for the other, that's irrational tunnel vision.
I'm only saying there must be better options, and it should include removing intimidation from child-raising, even if hitting your kids is involved.

ronkebp:

LIES!!!!!!!!

Kobojunkie:

Care to tell us what the LIES are? OR let me guess, you would rather dribble around providing evidence of these lies for another 6 pages, and then suddenly pretend you ever made this accusation to begin with?

Kobojunkie:

Sorry, but what you have above have NOTHING to do with common sense . . . You don't get to tack on the "common sense" badge on anything you come up with. There are tests it has to pass. So,sorry, what you have there does not work . . . again . .



It is so easy for you to make these claims here because you probably have never had to help someone else who was disabled and you needed to wipe them down and wash them and all. Common sense is that it does not matter what hand you use. What matters is that you wash that hand, left or right before you eat.

Going by your "common sense" logic up there, those who are born left handed are screwed, or don't you see that??

ronkebp:

Shattap!!!! go and rest, stop going back and forth,the discussion is over.

Kobojunkie:

Care to tell us what the LIES are? OR let me guess, you would rather dribble around providing evidence of these lies for another 6 pages, and then suddenly pretend you ever made this accusation to begin with?

kandiikane:

Kobo, what exactly are you trying to argue here? If you feel like any hand should be used to clean shyt, then it's ok. That is your opinion and choice but it makes sense to those who follow religions which suggest using one hand for eating and one hand for wiping shyt.

As I have said before, you can use your right hand to eat and wipe shyt, that is absolutely your business. No one is going to shoot you for it.

I have not looked after a disabled person but I have cleaned and washed babies and toddlers azzes with my left hand without any problem.

Sagamite:

Oh, really?

RUBBISH!

It is a failure of leadership, not a failure of family unit.

What utter clunking rubbish! You want to reinvent and rewrite sociology and anthropology to fit your arguments?

Go on google, go and dig out one place where experts have attributed substantial blame for corruption to family unit or upbringing.

I wait.

It is Saga you want to BS!

Sagamite:
Cut the BS!

You specifically came here to critique ONLY the African approach. So I ask you, which do you prefer?

Your lack of will of answer shows you did not think through it before you spoke. You prefer the RESULTS of the African one to the Western one but you chose a position based on funkadelism.

Awon funky! E mi o funky. Am an African man, original.

Sagamite: The goal of smacking kids in Africa is to mainly have respectful kids, studious kids and moral kids.

Other factors will impact these.

Be it peer pressure and western TV programmes for respect.

Demotivating teachers and school facilities for studiousness.

Economic hardship for morality.

But by and large, do the African disciplinary way achieve these (especially respect) better than Western way? Hell YEAH!

Kobojunkie:

um . . . my point is

a) to the one who suggested it a VALUE, it does not qualify because you should be able to measure the value of a VALUE
It is part of the hadiths, therefore, it is of importance to them and should be part of their lives as muslims
b) For you suggesting it is common sense, you cannot just spew stuff and label em as common sense just because. . . no. There is nothing common sense about wiping with left hand as opposed to right hand. Going by evidence, it does not matter what hand you wipe with, what matters is that you wash your hands. This is what common sense says.
It is common sense to try and understand why one won't want to use the hand they use for eating to also wash shyt from their azz
c) Wiping with left as a religious command is a whole different issue. When it comes to religion not everything makes sense. I mean you say it makes sense to those who follow it, and I agree that it probably should because they accept it is one of the requirements from their religion. But when you step into a room where the people there are not of that religion, do not suggest it should be common sense because sense rules are technically universal rules.
I know you were not brought up in an islamic setting so I am not imposing anything on you. Commenting on this matter does not mean I am imposing the things I have been brought with on people. If common sense is technically universal, then it should not stop you from reasoning and try to understand why someone won't want to use the hand they use for eating to clean shyt. Even if it's food you ate, it's not the same appealing food that is coming out. I mean you won't take it and put it back in your mouth just because it's the same food.
d) The reason I mentioned a disabled adult is because if you had to clean that person up, you would probably need to use your right hand in the process, and there is the chance that you will get poo on your right hand. I am not sure how your belief will take that though. Ask anyone who has worked as a CNA.

eldee:
Wait, I'm the first to state that families are building blocks of society? You've never heard that flaws in family systems translate to problems in the society at large? WOW. . .that's a first!

So the leaders are corrupt? The leaders didn't come from families?
First you admit that when people become junkies, you admit it's the families. . . but when the leaders are it's from Orunmila? I'm getting you.
Go on with your "clunking rubbish" and all. . .Piers Morgan is proud of you sir.

eldee:
Again I ask, the most corrupt people in the world and you're claiming a moral victory? Oh yeah I get it, corrupt leaders are from Mars.
Your RESULTS are no better.

You don't get it, there is a flaw with the method you swore by, I highlighted it, I don't need to praise anything else, I don't need to criticise anything else, if you think the points I stated are wrong argue, against them and stop wasting time.

coogar:

no, it does not -
the african disciplinary way has failed africa. the evidence is so blatant when you look at the moral decadence in nigeria tertiary institutions and even nysc camps.. what makes a kid raised in nigeria better morally than the ones raised abroad? go to examination centres in lagos and watch these "disciplined" african kids bribing and doing all sorta malpractises. go to female hostels and watch how whoring has been glorified...abeg, let's call a spade what it is....

there's a difference between hypocrisy and decency.....that a kid raised in naija does not discuss about sex in public does not mean she doesn't mutter it under her breath to herself. of course, when she sees uncle sagamite - she feigns innocence! whereas, the kid raised abroad would tell uncle sagamite to leave the bedroom for her cos she needs to sleep with her boyfriend. same intentions, one has the balls to express her feelings and the other cannot!!!

Sagamite:


Not inefficient administration?

You mean if there is access to expo in countries that don't smack, they will not take it?

[b]How come the same girl whoring in Naija will get to the UK where she has the powers to make her own money and will reduce i[/b]t? So it is an economic influence? The same as you will see in Eastern Europe or Thailand or any third world country where people are poorer?

Sagamite:
So somehow, you attributed exam malpractice to smacking?

Really?

Not inefficient administration?

You mean if there is access to expo in countries that don't smack, they will not take it?

How come the same girl whoring in Naija will get to the UK where she has the powers to make her own money and will reduce it?

So it is an economic influence? The same as you will see in Eastern Europe or Thailand or any third world country where people are poorer?

coogar:

if the smacking and the strict discipline were effective, why cheat in the exams?

fuck yes!!!



if the strict discipline meted to the people handling the administration worked, why would they need to resort to collecting money from examination candidates? were the exam invigilators raised in mars? were they not raised in the same nigeria? the discipline failed them and sadly, it has failed the kids too!
thanx for making my point....



why would there be access? the admin officers handling examinations here have been drilled about honesty and dignity "without the cane". it's not like many of them are stinkingly rich but they won't trade their dignity for few wads of pounds! they were tutored without the cane and they abide by it till the day they die. of course, there are few bad eggs abroad too but not in the same obscene level like nigeria....



where is the market for her to do such nonsense? there has to be a buyer before such business can thrive, sagamite! picking up whores is illegal in the uk if she's not licensed. the cops here won't accept bribes and she would get banged up so it's natural for any naija hooker to reduce her whoring abroad - it's not like they wish so, the system does not allow it!



i cannot connect the above with what's being discussed!

Sagamite: The goal of smacking kids in Africa is to mainly have respectful kids, studious kids and moral kids.

But by and large, do the African disciplinary way achieve these (especially respect) better than Western way? Hell YEAH!

dayokanu: Sagamite,

Can i ask which society has more crime and social vices. African e.g Nigerian or Foreign e.g American

dayokanu: Sagamite,

Can i ask which society has more crime and social vices. African e.g Nigerian or Foreign e.g American