plaetton:

You contradict yourself. If something is designed, it has to have a purpose for the design.
As an intelligent design appologists, if you cannot fathom a purpose for the design and creation of a ball of gas 800 times the size of the earth,why should we not ask why?

An analogy. Assuming you were a Bantu bushman who has never seen any technology before and you by chance came upon a Boeing 747 aircraft. The first logical thing to assume is not random chance but a designer.Not knowing the purpose of it's large engines does not take anything away from it being designed.
The only time you can legitimately arrive at chance is when you have completely explored and understood the aircraft and found no purpose for it.
Chance ought to be the very last resort. It is illogical to start from chance and then attempt to refute those who suggest design.

Mr_Anony:
An analogy. Assuming you were a Bantu bushman who has never seen any technology before and you by chance came upon a Boeing 747 aircraft. The first logical thing to assume is not random chance but a designer.Not knowing the purpose of it's large engines does not take anything away from it being designed.
The only time you can legitimately arrive at chance is when you have completely explored and understood the aircraft and found no purpose for it.
Chance ought to be the very last resort. It is illogical to start from chance and then attempt to refute those who suggest design.

Agreed.

But science has already come to junction where we think, the universe, perhaps did not have nor needed a designer.

Catch up on astro-physics.

plaetton:

Agreed.

But science has already come to junction where we think, the universe,[b] perhaps [/b]did not have nor needed a designer.

Catch up on astro-physics.

If we are still saying "perhaps", then we haven't come to that junction yet

Mr_Anony:
If we are still saying "perhaps", then we haven't come to that junction yet

Fair.
Some have and some have not. That is why we are having this debate.
lol.

How did I miss this? I was thinking you were going to actually go to church or something similar for the 36 hours...

For creationists.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHbYJfwFgOU&feature=g-logo-xit

Mee234: The only thing the poster has done so far is to show that he reads the bible. Though with little understanding of it.

perhaps i shhould take that as a compliment

plaetton:

And Jupiter, 800 times the size of the earth, is just a big ball of gas occupying about 70% of our solar system by design too? Designers tend to be stingy with space.
and mars is desolate by design?
4.7 billion years of ceasless interactions of matter. If a human embryo can go from single celled spermatozoa into a complex machine in just 9 months, why do you think that 4.7 billion years is not enough time to evolve from very simple to very complex?

i tend to agree with Mr_Anony on this.your point is based on what you suppose a designer would do or not do.

ifeness:

Alright,we humans are the most intelligent animals on the planet. Therefore other animals will think we are Gods. So i think the term God or Gods is a reference to beings superior and more advanced than we are. If God does exists, they are millions of them and they evolved just like we are evolving now in many aspects.

Humans have evolved from living in caves and huts to living in our own self made paradise. We probably have the DNA of the GODS who genetically created us. Moses of the bible will probably call us YAHWEH too because we now fly in air-place and communicate with mobile phone. In 100 years,no one would like to go to heaven because we have created heaven on earth.

when people say "we humans are the most advanced/intelligent/complex beings" i tend to ask "based on what"?
perhaps in terms of the fact that we are able to "create" things?because of what we have used science to achieve?however we fail to realise that so many inventions were based on certain characteristics in some animals.when man wanted to fly,he studied the birds.when he wanted to begin underwater movement,he studied the whales.
animals are just as complex as humans are but their complexity and intelligence is applied to their habitat.the bees have an organizational structure and work schedule that the romans would admire,a school of fish meander through the waters with no leader but with precise coordination.
every animal(including man) has specific features that enhances its ability over others.for humans,its our brain

plaetton:

Fair.
Some have and some have not. That is why we are having this debate.
lol.

Since you have "obviously" come to that junction. Why don't you then tell us how you are absolutely sure that the universe is a result of random chance

Yeah. It is a compliment. U try say u even dey read am, but u no understand am. Some of ur a explanations are way off the mark.

Mee234: Yeah. It is a compliment. U try say u even dey read am, but u no understand am. Some of ur a explanations are way off the mark.

Why dont you correct them for the benefit of all...not just talk

mkmyers45:

Why dont you correct them for the benefit of all...not just talk

seconded

Delafruita:
when people say "we humans are the most advanced/intelligent/complex beings" i tend to ask "based on what"?
perhaps in terms of the fact that we are able to "create" things?because of what we have used science to achieve?however we fail to realise that so many inventions were based on certain characteristics in some animals.when man wanted to fly,he studied the birds.when he wanted to begin underwater movement,he studied the whales.
animals are just as complex as humans are but their complexity and intelligence is applied to their habitat.the bees have an organizational structure and work schedule that the romans would admire,a school of fish meander through the waters with no leader but with precise coordination.
every animal(including man) has specific features that enhances its ability over others.for humans,its our brain

If you say every animal on the planet earth(including humans) have specific feature,haven't humans shown that our abilities are unlimited and perhaps to infinity? The so called bible is against human evolving to higher and superior beings

Tower of babel clearly state that the Gods were scared we were becoming too inquisitive and intelligent,so they destroyed the tower and scattered our languages-in order to stop us from being united. What is your say on that, that wasn't love from God(Gods),was it? I need you to explain that.

If we all had to follow the bible and follow God,we would all still be primitive men and be ran over by God.

We fly in the air now,even visit other planets, are we not close to finding out the planets these so called God has been hiding for years?

The questions will go on and on. But the fact remains that humans themselves are becoming better that God cos we now see the need for tolerance,charities, peace without reading the holy books.

And not to forget the garden of eden. ThIS God doesn't want us to have knowledge, infact he kicked Adam out for eating the fruit.

Every parent want their kids to be better that them....that is called love. Why is the bible God different?

Only an arrogant person would ask other people to worship him. Why is the bible God so ARROGANT?

ifeness:

If you say every animal on the planet earth(including humans) have specific feature,haven't humans shown that our abilities are unlimited and perhaps to infinity? The so called bible is against human evolving to higher and superior beings

Tower of babel clearly state that the Gods were scared we were becoming too inquisitive and intelligent,so they destroyed the tower and scattered our languages-in order to stop us from being united. What is your say on that, that wasn't love from God(Gods),was it? I need you to explain that.

If we all had to follow the bible and follow God,we would all still be primitive men and be ran over by God.

We fly in the air now,even visit other planets, are we not close to finding out the planets these so called God has been hiding for years?

The questions will go on and on. But the fact remains that humans themselves are becoming better that God cos we now see the need for tolerance,charities, peace without reading the holy books.

technically my "christianity" has expired.however,even as a christian,the story of the tower of babel sounds really ridiculous.its definitely a folktale that was told under the moonlights of isreal and embedded into its history

plaetton:

And Jupiter, 800 times the size of the earth, is just a big ball of gas occupying about 70% of our solar system by design too? Designers tend to be stingy with space.
and mars is desolate by design?
4.7 billion years of ceasless interactions of matter. If a human embryo can go from single celled spermatozoa into a complex machine in just 9 months, why do you think that 4.7 billion years is not enough time to evolve from very simple to very complex?

If the planet are kept in orbit by relative motion of attraction and repulsion why would there not be other planet in orbit to ensure that the planet stay in place in relation to the sun?

If this other planet are to ensure the stability of this other planet what use of life do you expect there since it was not the design intent but to ensure stability?

Some statement can be out of :-):-):-):-).

ifeness:

Alright,we humans are the most intelligent animals on the planet. Therefore other animals will think we are Gods. So i think the term God or Gods is a reference to beings superior and more advanced than we are. If God does exists, they are millions of them and they evolved just like we are evolving now in many aspects.

Humans have evolved from living in caves and huts to living in our own self made paradise. We probably have the DNA of the GODS who genetically created us. Moses of the bible will probably call us YAHWEH too because we now fly in air-place and communicate with mobile phone. In 100 years,no one would like to go to heaven because we have created heaven on earth.

The only truth in what you have said is that it aligns with the way the bible use the word God.

The bible paint the picture that all spirit creatures are gods to human but that there is the almighty God that created every thing including the other Gods.
And that it is the almighty God alone that deserve worship.

The bible says that there are many lords and many gods.

plaetton:

It is one thing to say that something was designed because it looks so complex and so perfect,then turn around to defend the designer by questioning the motives of one who points out the flaws in the design.
If it was designed, why should we not expect perfection?
What is the point of designing something if not for ultimate efficiency and perfection?

If I cannot use my human senses and intellect to judge and question a design, then with what faculty am i supposed to use to even appreciate such perfect design?

Evolution perfectly accounts for the many apparent flaws in creation. Intelligent design theory does not.

What if the knowledge you base your argument is wrong and does not take into consideration all the facts?

plaetton:

Fair.
Some have and some have not. That is why we are having this debate.
lol.

Presumptiousenes goes befor a fall the bible says.

truthislight:

The only truth in what you have said is that it aligns with the way the bible use the word God.

The bible paint the picture that all spirit creatures are gods to human but that there is the almighty God that created every thing including the other Gods.
And that it is the almighty God alone that deserve worship.

The bible says that there are many lords and many gods.

God created this evils yes?

ifeness:

If you say every animal on the planet earth(including humans) have specific feature,haven't humans shown that our abilities are unlimited and perhaps to infinity? The so called bible is against human evolving to higher and superior beings

Tower of babel clearly state that the Gods were scared we were becoming too inquisitive and intelligent,so they destroyed the tower and scattered our languages-in order to stop us from being united. What is your say on that, that wasn't love from God(Gods),was it? I need you to explain that.

If we all had to follow the bible and follow God,we would all still be primitive men and be ran over by God.

We fly in the air now,even visit other planets, are we not close to finding out the planets these so called God has been hiding for years?

The questions will go on and on. But the fact remains that humans themselves are becoming better that God cos we now see the need for tolerance,charities, peace without reading the holy books.

This is as a result of the wrong understanding of the story of the tower of babel.

ifeness: And not to forget the garden of eden. ThIS God doesn't want us to have knowledge, infact he kicked Adam out for eating the fruit.

Every parent want their kids to be better that them....that is called love. Why is the bible God different?

Only an arrogant person would ask other people to worship him. Why is the bible God so ARROGANT?

Also wrong knowledge.

Find out what will have been wrong with jesus obeying satan and turned the stone into bread.
Is bread a bad thing?

When you understand that you will find out what was wrong with Adam eating of the fruit.

If bread was not a bad thing why will fruit be a bad thing. You can also look at it the other way round.

truthislight:

If the planet are kept in orbit by relative motion of attraction and repulsion why would there not be other planet in orbit to ensure that the planet stay in place in relation to the sun?

If this other planet are to ensure the stability of this other planet what use of life do you expect there since it was not the design intent but to ensure stability?

Some statement can be out of :-):-):-):-).

i honestly dont understand your logic.does earth require other planets to make its revolution?

mkmyers45:

God created this evils yes?

The one that have accusing all other spirit creatures in heaven befor coming to adam twisted the plans and causing God to withdraw his hands and he satan does not have the capacity to stair the ship successfully.

Love cause God to interven and that is where the bible comes in to show us how to go back to God.

Till then the guy incharge is satan.

Helping him is wrong.
Distracting him is wrong.

As such his not being able to prove that he has a better way to run things better than the way God arranged things are false accusations.

The bible gives all necessary info on what all need to do.

Some demand by people after the bible has been completed amount to God helping satan to succeed.

The bible says that all the damage that has been done under satan rule will be undone. And the former things will not be called to mind.

Till then the why forward is to stick to the message of the king that must reach all willing humans all a witness.

While under satan, all that one need to do is endure his inadequacies till the right full ruler put him out and take charger to correct all things.

truthislight:

The one that have accusing all other spirit creatures in heaven befor coming to adam twisted the plans and causing God to withdraw his hands and he satan does not have the capacity to stair the ship successfully.

Love cause God to interven and that is where the bible comes in to show us how to go back to God.

Till then the guy incharge is satan.

Helping him is wrong.
Distracting him is wrong.

As such his not being able to prove that he has a better way to run things better than the way God arranged things are false accusations.

The bible gives all necessary info on what all need to do.

Some demand by people after the bible has been completed amount to God helping satan to succeed.

The bible says that all the damage that has been done under satan rule will be undone. And the former things will not be called to mind.

Till then the why forward is to stick to the message of the king that must reach all willing humans all a witness.

While under satan, all that one need to do is endure his inadequacies till the right full ruler put him out and take charger to correct all things.

Why take the blame...God did create the evil didn't he? He has repented hasn't he? He can clean up no?

mkmyers45:

God created this evils yes?

The one that have been accusing all other spirit creatures in heaven befor coming to adam and twisted the plans and causing God to withdraw his hands.
Since he satan does not have the capacity to stair the ship successfully we suffer for his failures.

He also did succeeded in also getting some angel in heaven to rebel that God's way are not the best.

Love cause God to interven in human case and that is where the bible comes in to show us how to go back to God.

Till then the guy incharge is satan.

God Helping him is wrong cause it will show that satan accusations were true
.

Distracting him is wrong it will give satan an excuse.

As such his not being able to prove that he has a better way to run things better than the way God arranged things are false accusations.

The bible gives all necessary info on what all need to do.

Some demand by people after the bible has been completed amount to God helping satan to succeed.

The bible says that all the damage that has been done under satan rule will be undone. And the former things will not be called to mind.

Till then the way forward is to stick to the message of the kingdom that must reach all willing humans as a witness.

While under satan, all that one need to do is endure his inadequacies till the right full ruler put him out and take charger to correct all things.

And no one in heaven or earth will ever guestion God way of doing things again.

truthislight:
This is as a result of the wrong understanding of the story of the tower of babel.

Please enlighten me please on why the Gods had to destroy the tower of babel. Why did they do that?

truthislight:

Also wrong knowledge.

Find out what will have been wrong with jesus obeying satan and turned the stone into bread.
In bread a bad thing.

When you understand that you will find out what was wrong with Adam eating of the fruit.

If bread was not a bad thing why will fruit be a bad thing. You can also look at it the other way round.

Are you serious?? Were you an eye witness to the story?

Do you believe Oduduwa came down from the sky? If you then,then i would accept the fact that Jesus went up into the sky too.

What would you do if someone tried to harm your child? would you stand back and watch? just like the bible god is doing

Delafruita:
i honestly dont understand your logic.does earth require other planets to make its revolution?

The planet are kept in place by relative motion, attraction and repulsion.

mkmyers45:

Why take the blame...God did create the evil didn't he? He has repented hasn't he? He can clean up no?

God created a perfect spirit creature that turn bad and acquire the names he is called by his actions.

Eg. Some one name can peter.
When peter acquire wood work skills he will be called carpenter.