i have noticed that a large number of christians on this board always quote from the bible to defend their religion.except for a few like Mr_Anony,buzugee and sometimes truthislight,others just keep quoting solely from the bible.its like they dont have any other source of information about their "savious".despite the onslaugght on yeshwa by atheists,they havent been able to come up with any independent information.

sometimes,i put a question to them with the knowledge of possible credible defences that they should profer but they always "fall my hand" except for Mr_Anony.

now,if i were a christian,no atheist can best me in a debate about the existence of jesus and about the authenticity of the bible.not because i will make incoherent and rigid arguments but because there exist lots of information which when when conjoined appropiately could account prove these points.

i will be on the side of the christians for the next 24hours so you guys better watch out

peeps,atheists and christians, should fell free to ask their questions or pose their challenges

Lwkmd.Delafruit what's happening to you?

Reyginus: Lwkmd.Delafruit what's happening to you?

the christians are "falling my hand".the asss whooping they are receiving is tooo much.i can do a better job ag defending christianity despite my disbelief in it

Delafruita: peeps,atheists and christians, should fell free to ask their questions or pose their challenges

okay let me give it a shot.

1. how do you reconcile the concept of a loving god to eternal punishment in hell. if this god is all-knowing that some people will end up eternally in hell, why did he allow them to be born to end up later in hell, if he is love?

2. what language did god speak to adam and eve and the israelites. there is no record of god speaking any other language other than hebrew. if that is the case, then is it not just a tribalistic deity similar to every deities in other cultures?

let me see you defend yahweh on this first two.

As a Christian, I need you to educate me on the real name of Jesus. What was the real name of Jesus? It could not have been Jesus the son of Christ. Because Jesus is a Greek. Transliteration of Joshua which means saviour and Christos is Greek translation of messiah or anointed one. So the name seems more of a title than a real name.
As a Christian you should be able to educate us. More questions to follow before the expiration of the 36hrs.

Delafruita:
the christians are "falling my hand".the asss whooping they are receiving is tooo much.i can do a better job ag defending christianity despite my disbelief in it

lol.We are not falling your hand.Only that you've made up your mind not to be convinced.

wirinet: As a Christian, I need you to educate me on the real name of Jesus. What was the real name of Jesus? It could not have been Jesus the son of Christ. Because Jesus is a Greek. Transliteration of Joshua which means saviour and Christos is Greek translation of messiah or anointed one. So the name seems more of a title than a real name.
As a Christian you should be able to educate us. More questions to follow before the expiration of the 36hrs.

the real name of jesus was jesus.the hebrew name however was yeshwa or yeshua which means "yahweh saves".the name was an adaptation or modernization of yehoshua or joshua and was a popular name of that era.it was translated by the greeks to ieseous and then to latin as jesu before finally becoming jesus in english.by and large,the name means the same thing in all the languages
gabriel specifically told joseph(according to matthew) and mary (according to luke) to name the baby "yeshwa".so it wasnt a title but a name

cyrexx:


okay let me give it a shot.

1. how do you reconcile the concept of a loving god to eternal punishment in hell. if this god is all-knowing that some people will end up eternally in hell, why did he allow them to be born to end up later in hell, if he is love?

2. what language did god speak to adam and eve and the israelites. there is no record of god speaking any other language other than hebrew. if that is the case, then is it not just a tribalistic deity similar to every deities in other cultures?

let me see you defend yahweh on this first two.

the bible aptly demonstrated that just as god expresses love,so does he mete out punishment as he deems fit.his ways are not our ways just as his ways are our ways.a loving human father will sometimes in a fit of anger,do things that will hurt his offspring.you might argue that god isnt human and should be above human emotions.however,man was created in the image of god and our emotions(good and bad) were part of the image of god we were created in.going by this analogy,god isnt the anomaly you think he is,he is just as emotional as we are.the bible talks about his jealousy.he even says that he is a jealous god and wouldnt want any deity to share in his glory.that shows just how emotional yahweh is.

there is evil in the world.thats a fact.god knows there's evil in the world and he lets the evil remind us that there is a bliss we are working towards.sunny days wouldnt be special if it wasnt for rain,joy wouldnt feel so good if it wasnt for pain.heaven wouldnt feel so wonderful if it wasnt for the pain and evil of this earth.however,he promised to give us the strenght to cope with every evil and pain.even when believers die in brutal circumstances,they know they are going to a better place

the concept of a burning hell hasnt found a universally accepted framework in christendom.some are of the belief that hell refers to a situation in which those who didnt accept the lord jesus christ as their lord and seviour will not be awakened to be part of the new earth.their "hell" will be their grave forever.some are of the view that hell is an actual everlasting flame which will burn for all eternity.in reality there is no evidence of this in the bible.proponents of this idea cite the parable of lazarus and the rich man in which the rich man was pleading for just a drop of water from hell.this story is allegorical at best and is similar to other parables of jesus.

god is a multi-linguist.whatever language it was that adam and eve could understand was the language he spoke.it couldnt have been hebrew because the garden of eden must have been located somewhere in modern day iran based on bible description.god speaks the language of our minds.he reads our thoughts and thats why he said "once have you spoken,twice have i heard".

^traitor.

PAGAN 9JA:
^traitor.

LWKMD

Reyginus: lol.We are not falling your hand.Only that you've made up your mind not to be convinced.

Eyah ...@OP How old is the earth?

@Delafruita How did the God of the bible land on the mountain top when he spoke to moses? Why did he ask moses to make the isrealites not move close to the mountain. Could it be a space-craft? Who were the sons of God that came down to destroy the Tower of babel? Where did Cain get his wife from? How did God get Mary pregnant?

mkmyers45: Eyah ...@OP How old is the earth?

the bible and science agree on a lot more than people realise.there is this notion that the bible claims the earth is 6000+ years old.thats a big misconception.a proper interpretation of genesis 1:1-2 shows that the earth cannot be 6000+ years old.

genesis 1:1 says "in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth"
1;2 says "and the earth was without form and void........"
the word "was" in genesis 1:2 doesnt fully translate the greek word in the verse.(dont wanna delve into greek translation).the better english word is "become".more recent translations translate genesis 1:2 as "and the earth became without form and void........".

going by this more accurate translation,it shows there should be a timeline between genesis 1:1 and 1:2.the lenght of that timeline can only be determine by science.so whatever science says about the age of the earth is in consonance with the bible.

theologians believe the earth became without form and void when the devil and his demons were expelled to the earth after the failed coup.

Delafruita:
the bible and science agree on a lot more than people realise.there is this notion that the bible claims the earth is 6000+ years old.thats a big misconception.a proper interpretation of genesis 1:1-2 shows that the earth cannot be 6000+ years old.

genesis 1:1 says "in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth"
1;2 says "and the earth was without form and void........"
the word "was" in genesis 1:2 doesnt fully translate the greek word in the verse.(dont wanna delve into greek translation).the better english word is "become".more recent translations translate genesis 1:2 as "and the earth became without form and void........".

going by this more accurate translation,it shows there should be a timeline between genesis 1:1 and 1:2.the lenght of that timeline can only be determine by science.so whatever science says about the age of the earth is in consonance with the bible.

theologians believe the earth became without form and void when the devil and his demons were expelled to the earth after the failed coup.

Are you suggesting the gap theory but that has been proved here to be thrash..

Cool thread.

Delafruita:
the bible aptly demonstrated that just as god expresses love,so does he mete out punishment as he deems fit.his ways are not our ways just as his ways are our ways.[b]a loving human father will sometimes in a fit of anger,do things that will hurt his offspring.[/b]you might argue that god isnt human and should be above human emotions.however,man was created in the image of god and our emotions(good and bad) were part of the image of god we were created in.going by this analogy,god isnt the anomaly you think he is,he is just as emotional as we are.the bible talks about his jealousy.he even says that he is a jealous god and wouldnt want any deity to share in his glory.that shows just how emotional yahweh is.

If a person has the ability to provoke feelings of anger in another person, that implies that the former has some sort of power over the latter. If humans can cause God to have a fit of anger that will make Him put them in hell, doesn't that mean humans have the power to upset God and thus have power over God? So you Christians worship a God that humans have power over? Deluded Christians.

Secondly, did God not create man to have a sinful nature? I believe that He had full knowledge of the fact that human beings will be likely to fall and sin when He was creating them, so why create a creation to have a sinful nature and then punish it for committing sins? Why not just create them to be sinless so that they would never be in danger of eternal punishment?

Delafruita:
there is evil in the world.thats a fact.god knows there's evil in the world and he lets the evil remind us that there is a bliss we are working towards.sunny days wouldnt be special if it wasnt for rain,joy wouldnt feel so good if it wasnt for pain.heaven wouldnt feel so wonderful if it wasnt for the pain and evil of this earth.however,he promised to give us the strenght to cope with every evil and pain.even when believers die in brutal circumstances,they know they are going to a better place

What is the point behind the whole thing? Why should we have to face the suffering to know what happiness feels like? Why were we not simply given some kind of innate knowledge, some way of innately knowing how valuable the good is so that we would always be aware, instead of this arrangement where we have to face difficult times to know the value of good times?

Delafruita:
the concept of a burning hell hasnt found a universally accepted framework in christendom.some are of the belief that hell refers to a situation in which those who didnt accept the lord jesus christ as their lord and seviour will not be awakened to be part of the new earth.their "hell" will be their grave forever.some are of the view that hell is an actual everlasting flame which will burn for all eternity.in reality there is no evidence of this in the bible.proponents of this idea cite the parable of lazarus and the rich man in which the rich man was pleading for just a drop of water from hell.this story is allegorical at best and is similar to other parables of jesus.

So hell is allegorical? What punishment would the theifs or rapists or murderers get for their crimes?

Delafruita:
god is a multi-linguist.whatever language it was that adam and eve could understand was the language he spoke.it couldnt have been hebrew because the garden of eden must have been located somewhere in modern day iran based on bible description.god speaks the language of our minds.he reads our thoughts and thats why he said "once have you spoken,twice have i heard".

If God can hear our thoughts then why didn't He save Adam and Eve from the serpent before it got a chance to tempt them? Or can He not hear the thoughts of animals?


Sorry Delafruita, I am not trying to give you a hard time. You are one of my faves here, I just want to see if you are actually better at defending than the Christians.

Why should I become a born again and convert to Christianity?

ifeness: @Delafruita How did the God of the bible land on the mountain top when he spoke to moses? Why did he ask moses to make the isrealites not move close to the mountain. Could it be a space-craft? Who were the sons of God that came down to destroy the Tower of babel? Where did Cain get his wife from? How did God get Mary pregnant?

ordinarily,god should be omnipresent so his appearance to moses isnt a big deal

the story of the tower of babel is allegorical and not to be taken literarily.you should understand that the old testament was as much a religious book as it was a history book.folklore somehow gets embedded into history to remind people of certain things.

the bible doesnt say how cain got a wife.but the bible tellls us that adam had other children after seth.it doesnt say when just as it doesnt tell us when cain got his wife.josephus flavius claims adam had 33 sons and 23 daughters.any of these daughters could have been taken by cain to be his wife

mkmyers45: Are you suggesting the gap theory but that has been proved here to be thrash..

i am not suggesting the gap theory.i am insisting on the gap theory

Delafruita:

ordinarily,god should be omnipresent so his appearance to moses isnt a big deal

the story of the tower of babel is allegorical and not to be taken literarily.you should understand that the old testament was as much a religious book as it was a history book.folklore somehow gets embedded into history to remind people of certain things.

the bible doesnt say how cain got a wife.but the bible tellls us that adam had other children after seth.it doesnt say when just as it doesnt tell us when cain got his wife.josephus flavius claims adam had 33 sons and 23 daughters.any of these daughters could have been taken by cain to be his wife

Where was this/and many more accounts gotten? Dosent this story make god stupid as its against common logic..

E_monkey: Cool thread.



If a person has the ability to provoke feelings of anger in another person, that implies that the former has some sort of power over the latter. If humans can cause God to have a fit of anger that will make Him put them in hell, doesn't that mean humans have the power to upset God and thus have power over God? So you Christians worship a God that humans have power over? Deluded Christians.

humans have the power to offend god.indeed,humans have a lot of power over god.we are the only creatures that acknowledge him.he is a god that wants to be worshipped and who else can do that but humans?he needs us as much or even more than we need him.he doesnt just need us on earth,he also needs us to sing praises to him in heaven.we might be deluded but we are deluded in the knowledge of the fact that we will reign forever with our lord

e: Secondly, did God not create man to have a sinful nature? I believe that He had full knowledge of the fact that human beings will be likely to fall and sin when He was creating them, so why create a creation to have a sinful nature and then punish it for committing sins? Why not just create them to be sinless so that they would never be in danger of eternal punishment?

have you given thought to the fact that god could be likened to a kid with a magnifying glass having fun poking termites with needles?as humans,we love our movies.we watch our heroes deal with villains and we cheer.we watch cop cars getting crashed but we dont pause to think that those cops might die or get incapacitated.its just a movie right?what if we're just a movie to god.he just created us and sat back with popcorn and a bottle of coke watching us fool around and gigling.of course he knew adam and eve would eat the apple.thats precisely why he put it there.if they didnt eat the apple,how will god be able to have a villain(satan) for the movie?god wants to destroy satan and we are the pawns.but those that live by his rules and accept his son will survive the war and reign with him forever

e: What is the point behind the whole thing? Why should we have to face the suffering to know what happiness feels like? Why were we not simply given some kind of innate knowledge, some way of innately knowing how valuable the good is so that we would always be aware, instead of this arrangement where we have to face difficult times to know the value of good times?

So hell is allegorical? What punishment would the theifs or rapists or murderers get for their crimes?

If God can hear our thoughts then why didn't He save Adam and Eve from the serpent before it got a chance to tempt them? Or can He not hear the thoughts of animals?


Sorry Delafruita, I am not trying to give you a hard time. You are one of my faves here, I just want to see if you are actually better at defending than the Christians.

would respond to this later.need to attend to some business

Delafruita:
the bible and science agree on a lot more than people realise.there is this notion that the bible claims the earth is 6000+ years old.thats a big misconception.a proper interpretation of genesis 1:1-2 shows that the earth cannot be 6000+ years old.

genesis 1:1 says "in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth"
1;2 says "and the earth was without form and void........"
the word "was" in genesis 1:2 doesnt fully translate the greek word in the verse.(dont wanna delve into greek translation).the better english word is "become".more recent translations translate genesis 1:2 as "and the earth became without form and void........".

going by this more accurate translation,it shows there should be a timeline between genesis 1:1 and 1:2.the lenght of that timeline can only be determine by science.so whatever science says about the age of the earth is in consonance with the bible.

theologians believe the earth became without form and void when the devil and his demons were expelled to the earth after the failed coup.

I have been reading you from behind and at this stage on the above attempt of Gen. 1:1-2, You are defending "heresy". There is nothing like the earth "became" rather "was" DESCRIBING the initial creation how it was created. If it "became", you are indirectly saying God first created, it was ruined by the devil and later again, God re-created or re-formed or re-made the earth again only for God to destroy the earth after the fall of Adam in the time of Noah and then start all over again. This theory is against our faith and you are not spread this kind of heresy please.

Am sorry to interrupt but if it does explain it, you can start another thread to this effect. As a matter of fact, I had refuted this gap theory in the past. It is actually a pretext and man made theory.

Goshen360:

I have been reading you from behind and at this stage on the above attempt of Gen. 1:1-2, You are defending "heresy". There is nothing like the earth "became" rather "was" DESCRIBING the initial creation how it was created. If it "became", you are indirectly saying God first created, it was ruined by the devil and later again, God re-created or re-formed or re-made the earth again only for God to destroy the earth after the fall of Adam in the time of Noah and then start all over again. This theory is against our faith and you are not spread this kind of heresy please.

Am sorry to interrupt but if it does explain it, you can start another thread to this effect. As a matter of fact, I had refuted this gap theory in the past. It is actually a pretext and man made theory.

Kindly post extracts from the thread were we discussed it..

Delafruita:
the real name of jesus was jesus.the hebrew name however was yeshwa or yeshua which means "yahweh saves".the name was an adaptation or modernization of yehoshua or joshua and was a popular name of that era.it was translated by the greeks to ieseous and then to latin as jesu before finally becoming jesus in english.by and large,the name means the same thing in all the languages
gabriel specifically told joseph(according to matthew) and mary (according to luke) to name the baby "yeshwa".so it wasnt a title but a name

Typical of a Christian(even if for only a day), you have started employing Misinformation, half truth and deceit to argue your position.

first, you only dealt with the name Jesus, you avoided the other name Christ entirety. That means you agree that Christ was a title and not a name.

Secondly, the name Jesus is not a Greek translation of the Hebrew name Joshua as you wrongly stated, it is a transliteration (an alphabet to alphabet substitutions), Jesus has no meaning in Hebrew.

The name Jesus is meaningless because it is a transliteration and not an actual translation. To translate a meaning into Greek from the original Hebrew name of the Messiah, Yahshua, it would translate to Theosateria, meaning god (theos) is salvation (sateria). The problem with transliterations are the fact that they are a letter for letter and sound for sound conversion from one language to another. Because the original Hebrew Name Yahshua has a specific meaning tied to His purpose, the Greek transliteration has no meaning what so ever. A true meaning for meaning translation of the Hebrew born, Hebrew named, Hebrew raised, Hebrew buried Messiah Yahshua would be Theosateria in the Greek/English. Since people don't change their name depending on the country they travel to, there is no reason to change the name of the Messiah. If Jesus is the translation of Joshua, then the book of Joshua that appears in the Bible should also be called Jesus

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_Jesus'_name_mean

So Jesus could not have been named Jesus when he was born, beside why should the parent give him a Greek name when they were Jews? If you told me that he was called Joshua when he lived, I would have accepted, but I don't see how he could have been called Jesus when he was alive.
So the question stand, what was the name of Jesus when he was alive?

Please also note; the Arabic transliteration of Jesus is ISA, that does not mean his name was isa when he was living:

mkmyers45: Kindly post extracts from the thread were we discussed it..

My brother, I will look for that thread and modify this response if possible. However, I have a deeper understand other than what we discussed the other time. If the OP wants we can discuss it here or open another thread not to distract his thread. The pre-adamic world and gap theory is a distortion and pretext to the word of God and I can boldly prove it line by line here or on another thread. We either believe what the bible says if we choose to or throw it away rather than reading into the word of God.

Here is the thread we discussed the pre-adamic and gap theory of Gen. 1:1-2, https://www.nairaland.com/989559/gap-theory-pre-adamic-world-genesis

Delafruita:

ordinarily,god should be omnipresent so his appearance to moses isnt a big deal

the story of the tower of babel is allegorical and not to be taken literarily.you should understand that the old testament was as much a religious book as it was a history book.folklore somehow gets embedded into history to remind people of certain things.

the bible doesnt say how cain got a wife.but the bible tellls us that adam had other children after seth.it doesnt say when just as it doesnt tell us when cain got his wife.josephus flavius claims adam had 33 sons and 23 daughters.any of these daughters could have been taken by cain to be his wife

So how old was cain when he married one of his so called sisters?

omipresent? why did he have to come down on the mountain if he could be everywhere at anytime. pls do explain

Pls do explain the verse of the bible below

Judges 1:19
And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the
inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Delafruita:

ordinarily,god should be omnipresent so his appearance to moses isnt a big deal

the story of the tower of babel is allegorical and not to be taken literarily.you should understand that the old testament was as much a religious book as it was a history book.folklore somehow gets embedded into history to remind people of certain things.

the bible doesnt say how cain got a wife.but the bible tellls us that adam had other children after seth.it doesnt say when just as it doesnt tell us when cain got his wife.josephus flavius claims adam had 33 sons and 23 daughters.any of these daughters could have been taken by cain to be his wife

you also forgot to tell us how god got mary pregnant, did he do the usual stuff?

I didn't realise that Mr_Anony doesn't quote bible. I tried that when I first arrived at NL but I didn't get very far. I was often accused of not quoting the bible until in the end I had to if I wanted to be taken 'seriously'.

Delafruita:
the bible aptly demonstrated that just as god expresses love,so does he mete out punishment as he deems fit.his ways are not our ways just as his ways are our ways.a loving human father will sometimes in a fit of anger,do things that will hurt his offspring.you might argue that god isnt human and should be above human emotions.however,man was created in the image of god and our emotions(good and bad) were part of the image of god we were created in.going by this analogy,god isnt the anomaly you think he is,he is just as emotional as we are.[/b]the bible talks about his [b]jealousy.he even says that he is a jealous god and wouldnt want any deity to share in his glory.that shows just how [b]emotional [/b]yahweh is.

there is evil in the world.thats a fact.god knows there's evil in the world and he lets the evil remind us that there is a bliss we are working towards.sunny days wouldnt be special if it wasnt for rain,joy wouldnt feel so good if it wasnt for pain.heaven wouldnt feel so wonderful if it wasnt for the pain and evil of this earth.however,he promised to give us the strenght to cope with every evil and pain.even when believers die in brutal circumstances,they know they are going to a better place

the concept of a burning hell hasnt found a universally accepted framework in christendom.some are of the belief that hell refers to a situation in which those who didnt accept the lord jesus christ as their lord and seviour will not be awakened to be part of the new earth.their "hell" will be their grave forever.some are of the view that hell is an actual everlasting flame which will burn for all eternity.in reality there is no evidence of this in the bible.proponents of this idea cite the parable of lazarus and the rich man in which the rich man was pleading for just a drop of water from hell.this story is allegorical at best and is similar to other parables of jesus.

god is a multi-linguist.whatever language it was that adam and eve could understand was the language he spoke.it couldnt have been hebrew because the garden of eden must have been located somewhere in modern day iran based on bible description.god speaks the language of our minds.he reads our thoughts and thats why he said "once have you spoken,twice have i heard".

hmm, nice i must commend you. you are not doing bad as a temporary apologetic of this great myth called christianity. kudos

BUT

you artfully avoided my question, as is common with skilled apologetics. you explained hell as an expression of emotional outbursts and jealousy of yahweh. but you did not really reconcile gods love with this hell issue.


1. if yahweh is as petty as you describe him (@ bolded), i seriously doubt if he is the same one who created this unbelievably gigantic universe. such a weak god can even change his mind about those he admitted to paradise later in eternity.

2. you are not seeing from the perspectives of the victims of this hell sentence i.e. non-christians. if god want everybody to go to heaven, he could have in his omnipotence make everybody born into a christian family and make them saved by default. are you telling me that billions of muslims and buddists and african religionists who eventually ends up in hell will see this monster of a god as a loving being.

3. you said yahweh is a multi-linguist. hmmm, do you know that word adam and eve are hebrew words. so yahweh is multi-linguist and he decided to create mankind speaking hebrew and when he eventually divided human language into thousands we have nowadays, he still preserves hebrew language. aren't you sensing jewish tribalism and racism here? doesnt this shows that yahweh is a tribalistic deity and not the god of the whole world.

1st question:

In the beginning god said let there be light and there was light. What was the source of the light? Where did the light shine from?

plaetton: 1st question:

In the beginning god said let there be light and there was light. What was the source of the light? Where did the light shine from?

I want his "christian" take on the issue of Jephthah's daughter.

Gen.1:8. And god called the firmament heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
But created the sun and the stars on the 3rd day(gen. 1:14), so hw did we get morning and evening on the first and second days if there was no sun?